Schneider, make a move, get a CB

So the Panthers were in need of a CB and what did they do today? They went and got one from Jacksonville. It's Schneider's job. It's our weakest position. He has to make a move and replace Flowers. This is insane. Everyone can see we need to improve our secondary. So why aren't we doing it? We already mortgaged our future to win now. Get CBs and utilize Adams effectively!!

I think if we didn’t play them 12 yards off the ball then maybe they wouldn’t be wide open on every play.

Also we need better talent. Or a whole new defensive scheme.


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Welshers":2tqotuip said:

So the Panthers were in need of a CB and what did they do today? They went and got one from Jacksonville. It's Schneider's job. It's our weakest position. He has to make a move and replace Flowers. This is insane. Everyone can see we need to improve our secondary. So why aren't we doing it? We already mortgaged our future to win now. Get CBs and utilize Adams effectively!!

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They have made moves the get CBs - Traded for John Reid from Houston, Sidney Jones from Jax, and Bless Austin from the Jets. None of them have played in any games so far. Maybe they deserve a chance to play and show what they can do?

We already made moves. Play the new guys.

Play anyone else. Anyone.

A trade or FA will happen. Sooner then later.

The entire DB room has been a revolving door the last 2 seasons.

This is the end result of their "efforts".

Too many problems to fix this late in the game IMO. Pete is no longer a defensive "guru", as he cannot adapt to what other teams do and cannot react to the strength of his players at this point.

Pete has tunnel vision....period.

Shanegotyou11":217uwjgj said:

A trade or FA will happen. Sooner then later.

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No it won't.

We have neither the draft capital nore cap space necessary to trade for a true difference maker at CB.......and if we did, it wouldn't be until mid season when the terrible teams realize their terrible and trade away their best players who aren't in their long range plans.

Besides, even if you gave me your dream scenario trade, it's not going to be enough to fix all the other glaring issues on the defensive side of the ball. Which is really every position group.

We got a thin LB corp that can't cover, we've got a D-line that has no real consistent dangerous edge rusher. Bunch of has beens and 2nd and 3rd year players that aren't making an impact like we were told they would. Green, Collier, Robinson, Taylor?

Has anyone heard these guys names called the past two weeks? I can't remember any plays, not even one.

I think Jones and Austin are fliers, and would be surprised if they are starting caliber. Think coaches were banking on Tre Brown to be healthy. The failed Witherspoon move speaks to their scouting and talent evaluation.

And we really miss KJ's instincts too. The other LBs are not getting it done.

Sgt. Largent":l2z5u047 said:

We already made moves. Play the new guys.

Play anyone else. Anyone.

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Agreed. Watching Flowers yesterday and last week is just F'ing PAINFULL.

10 yards off the ball and a cloud of dust.

And then yelling on the sidelines that it's apparently not his fault. My God.

Play. Anyone. Else.

and, oh yea - make the high priced safety, you know, like maybe play the safety position to actually help the CB's?

Just a thought.

ddores":2mkaw19q said:

and, oh yea - make the high priced safety, you know, like maybe play the safety position to actually help the CB's?
.

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Problem is Adam's is not a good cover safety. His strengths are as a box safety disrupting, but he hasn't seemed to do that well either because of how much of a disjointed ineffective mess the defense is right now.

He's been reduced to having to run all the way across the field to make open field tackles because a TE or receiver was running free.

It's a mess man, it's all a mess.

HawkinNY":2ul925e8 said:

I think if we didn’t play them 12 yards off the ball then maybe they wouldn’t be wide open on every play.

Also we need better talent. Or a whole new defensive scheme.


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Keep everything in front of you, even if it is for a first down guys. Just don't get beat over the top because that will result in points on the board, whereas if we keep everything in front of you.....

Sgt. Largent":8uf21zej said:

ddores":8uf21zej said:

and, oh yea - make the high priced safety, you know, like maybe play the safety position to actually help the CB's?
.

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Problem is Adam's is not a good cover safety. His strengths are as a box safety disrupting, but he hasn't seemed to do that well either because of how much of a disjointed ineffective mess the defense is right now.

He's been reduced to having to run all the way across the field to make open field tackles because a TE or receiver was running free.

It's a mess man, it's all a mess.

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You're right.... When I think about it - the Adams description is EXACTLY what happened with the Titans DH touchdown on the Flowers side. Flowers wiffed/screwed up/fell asleep/overdosed on his meds - and Adams tried to back him up with a hero rundown - just didn't finish it off.

Kinda chicken and egg with Adams I guess a bit. If everything was working well maybe he doesn't have to try to play hero-ball on defense.

Flowers plays 10/20 yards off the ball and thus allows first downs at will. Now, my understanding is that Flowers is supposed to be a heck of a tackler. What I saw yesterday, even when the opponent caught the ball for a first down, the opponent wrestled Flowers for another 5-6 yards YAC.

ddores":qsiqgbzc said:

Kinda chicken and egg with Adams I guess a bit. If everything was working well maybe he doesn't have to try to play hero-ball on defense.

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Yes, if Adams actually had two competent DB's that could play press man and not be liabilities where he had to keep back peddling and chasing on every play to clean up their messes?

He could spend more time at the line disrupting the run game and pressuring the QB.

But he can't, so in essence we're paying a bad cover safety 17M a year to cover badly the majority of snaps and be the tackling janitor cleaning up after everyone else's messes.

btw, Griffin held Deandre Hopkins to three catches and 21 yards this weekend. If Flowers is still on the field by the time we play Arizona, Hopkins is going to have 200 yards and 3-4 TD's.

Sgt. Largent":180vwxa1 said:

ddores":180vwxa1 said:

Kinda chicken and egg with Adams I guess a bit. If everything was working well maybe he doesn't have to try to play hero-ball on defense.

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Yes, if Adams actually had two competent DB's that could play press man and not be liabilities where he had to keep back peddling and chasing on every play to clean up their messes?

He could spend more time at the line disrupting the run game and pressuring the QB.

But he can't, so in essence we're paying a bad cover safety 17M a year to cover badly the majority of snaps and be the tackling janitor cleaning up after everyone else's messes.

btw, Griffin held Deandre Hopkins to three catches and 21 yards this weekend. If Flowers is still on the field by the time we play Arizona, Hopkins is going to have 200 yards and 3-4 TD's.

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Hopkins was playing through a rib injury. So not sure his totals were all because Griffin shut him down. With that said, Shaqueem Griffin would be an upgrade at CB over what the Seahawks are putting out there currently.

Schneider is why we are in this mess. He has drafted si-so, trades away first round draft picks, and then signed zero quality CB.

Let the season play out a bit, once teams realize they suck they will be willing to part ways with their guys. Obviously Gilmore is a name that is probably available. Just watching the Eagles game, I wonder if Darius Slay would be available. There will be plenty of other names.

Hawk-Lock":1zo7fb78 said:

Let the season play out a bit, once teams realize they suck they will be willing to part ways with their guys. Obviously Gilmore is a name that is probably available. Just watching the Eagles game, I wonder if Darius Slay would be available. There will be plenty of other names.

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The same could be said for us.

hawkfan68":336sx5rn said:

Sgt. Largent":336sx5rn said:

ddores":336sx5rn said:

Kinda chicken and egg with Adams I guess a bit. If everything was working well maybe he doesn't have to try to play hero-ball on defense.

Click to expand...

Yes, if Adams actually had two competent DB's that could play press man and not be liabilities where he had to keep back peddling and chasing on every play to clean up their messes?

He could spend more time at the line disrupting the run game and pressuring the QB.

But he can't, so in essence we're paying a bad cover safety 17M a year to cover badly the majority of snaps and be the tackling janitor cleaning up after everyone else's messes.

btw, Griffin held Deandre Hopkins to three catches and 21 yards this weekend. If Flowers is still on the field by the time we play Arizona, Hopkins is going to have 200 yards and 3-4 TD's.

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Hopkins was playing through a rib injury. So not sure his totals were all because Griffin shut him down. With that said, Shaqueem Griffin would be an upgrade at CB over what the Seahawks are putting out there currently.

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I get it, the Jags overpaid for Shaq.

But that's how valuable corners are in the NFL right now with how pass happy the league wants it to be. So when you have a good corner that you drafted and has played well for you for four years? AND most importantly if you look over at your bench and see Tre damn Flowers?

Yeah, maybe you wanna over pay for Griffin, and not the strong safety you gave up two first rounders for.

I am not sure that getting new CBs will help if we just end up playing them the same way we are playing now.

Reed wasn't as terrible earlier. The way we are playing just makes him look worse.

Flowers isn't a great corner or even a good one. But he never looked THIS bad before.

Admittedly, they are now trying to cover 1s with guys that could barely cover 2s. So they are going to look worse, but even when you see them covering 2s they look worse now. So does Amadi, and he covered the slot adequately earlier.

It is the scheme and the coaches, finding better corners will not fix this.*

Sometimes you have to just allow the big play, if you give up a score it is actually best if you give it up quickly anyway. (Except at end of game, end of half) - especially when your strength is the offense.

I don't have any confidence that our secondary will be successful until we give up this idiotic obsession with limiting the big play at the expense of all else. It worked earlier with different personnel, it does not work not, and I don't think our DC is intelligent or gifted enough to maintain this obsession and still keep us competitive.



* As was correctly pointed out, letting Griffin go was mind-blowingly stupid when we didn't have a backup plan to fill his slot.