NEWSFLASH! They Cannot Rebuild Properly Until Pete is Gone

I keep seeing threads like: Fire Norton, trade this guy, cut that guy, blow it up and rebuild!

Newsflash! The franchise cannot rebuild properly until Pete is gone. Name 5 great moves this team has made in the last 2 seasons…? I'll save you the trouble. They haven't made 5 great moves in the last 5 seasons. This is not the regime you should put in charge of another rebuild.

Trading Wilson will not fix this. They don't know how to use 1st round picks. And they would likely be late 1st round picks. Netting players such as Rashaad Penny, James Carpenter, LJ Collier, Malik McDowell, etc.

Firing Norton will not fix this. Pete would only replace him with another puppet.

Any possible moves that can be thought of, WILL NOT FIX THIS. Pete's scheme turns all-pro's into avg.

Players are not developing. They're drafted, and they routinely stay the same or get worse over time.

The Seahawks problems are structural and systemic and lay at the feet of Pete Carroll.

Until this is understood the Seahawks cannot move forward as a franchise, they are trapped in purgatory.

They will only continue to steadily decline like they have been for many seasons. No matter what moves you can concoct in your mind, even if they were to actually happen. Things will not change until Pete is gone. That is when the rebuilding will actually start.

It has been evident for a few years that PC needs to go. Objectively the non competitive loss to the falcons was the sign the decline was in motion and not reversing.

The next question that will linger is just how bad we have to become and how long do we have to wait for JA to toss him? My hunch is a long time, because the 5 year extension was a concern, therefore I have prepared myself to watch bad football for 10 years.

Absolutely. Pete Carroll is incapable of rebuilding this franchise.

The league has figured out Pete Carroll's Cover 3 defensive scheme. Teams looked to emulate our system in mass and as a result, teams developed an offensive system that gives our defense fits. Our HC has done a poor job adjusting to these changes. What we're seeing on defense is not a problem of Ken Norton Jr's making, he is just doing exactly what Pete wants like the good soldier that he is.

Holmgren once said that he never took another head coaching job after the Seahawks, because he felt the game had passed him by and he no longer understood it well enough. I feel like this is the juncture that Carroll is at right now. He once was one of the best defensive minds in football but he refuses to let go of his old preconceived notions and clings to an old system that is out of vogue. The NFL is an adapt or die league and our coach has done a poor job adjusting to the changes. At this point in time i'm getting really heavy Green bay Packers McCarthy vibes.

Not only that, our drafting and trading strategies have been nonsensical. We're betting our future on players that don't fit our scheme and we're pigeon holing them into roles that don't fit their skill sets. As a result our depth has been depleted and our starpower is seriously waning.

Carroll was exactly what the Seahawks needed back in 2010. He brought us some magical moments as head coach, moments that I shall never forget. 11 years later however he's just a remnant of the past. Over 15 coaches have a better playoff record than Pete Carroll since our last Super Bowl appearance.

Our only wins in the playoffs came against the Vikings, which should have won the game. They lost because Blair Walsh missed a 30 yard field goal in the waning seconds of the game.

Against the Lions that backed into the playoffs. In this game the Lions were fielding a QB with a sprained ankle and a jacked up throwing hand.

Against the Eagles, a team fielding a 40+ year old McCown, a QB that wasn't even very good in his prime.

Notice a trend here? All of our wins came against teams with injured Quarterbacks or backups, or in Bridgewaters case, a journeyman QB.

If we don't make the playoffs this season we will have 1 playoff win in 5 years while having a franchise QB. That is absolutely inexcusable.

Agree 100%.

I don’t trust him to draft anymore. I don’t trust him to sign good free agents anymore. I don’t trust him to find and hold accountable good assistants anymore.

If there is one pile of dog poop in the park and it’s In his path he will step in it. He won’t change course. Because it’s his path shit or no shit.

Re-build? You mean like the Jets and Lions keep doing? Because thta's what our future will look like with a re-build. For every HC like Sean McVay there is a Josh McDaniels. Hire the wrong coach, and last night's debacle will be a weekly reality. Thanks but no thanks.

I'm for a complete rebuild. Fire Pete, trade Metcalf before the November deadline, see if Russell wants to be here for a rebuild, if not, trade him. Trade or cut Bobby.

And before I get fried for my suggestion, yes, I'm fully aware of the consequences, that we could end up like the Lions. It's a risk I'm willing to take.

Hard to rebuild when the Hawks continue to trade away all their high draft picks for years to come and high end FA's don't want to play for the Hawks like they used to .

Been saying this for a few years now. Nothing will change until Carroll is gone. Russ is not the problem, our coaches and schemes are. I'm for a complete rebuild, under new leadership. Writing has been on the wall for some time now...... if I was Wilson I'd be looking for my escape as well.

Carroll has nothing of value to contribute anymore.

He is dead weight, living off what he did in the past. He is old and pretty much useless right now.

Worse, this team has only 2 players with any value now. The rest are bang average, worse, or so old it hardly matters.

DK and Russ should be heading for the exits ASAP. Probably should just trade Lockett out of compassion,

We need to accept we are going to be terrible for a while.

But I think Pete will cling to the seat for a few more years and we will become the West Coast version of the Lions.

And that will be our legacy for at least 3-5 years after Pete finally leaves.

The fear of some.

"If we get rid of PC we will turn into a horrible team. No matter what. We could not possibly hire a GOOD coach and keep most of our good players and improve. IF PC is gone we are going 2-15 for years. We sucked before PC got here and we will suck when he leaves. That wasn't really a Super Bowl under a previous coach"

Sigh

Yesterday I realized that I would rather have McCarthy than Carroll.

That is scary.

hawker84":1m7t5w4p said:

Been saying this for a few years now. Nothing will change until Carroll is gone..

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Yup. And when he's gone we will likely lose a lot more games. That the kind of change you're looking for?

Fade":ctvhn711 said:

I keep seeing threads like: Fire Norton, trade this guy, cut that guy, blow it up and rebuild!

Newsflash! The franchise cannot rebuild properly until Pete is gone. Name 5 great moves this team has made in the last 2 seasons…? I'll save you the trouble. They haven't made 5 great moves in the last 5 seasons. This is not the regime you should put in charge of another rebuild.

Trading Wilson will not fix this. They don't know how to use 1st round picks. And they would likely be late 1st round picks. Netting players such as Rashaad Penny, James Carpenter, LJ Collier, Malik McDowell, etc.

Firing Norton will not fix this. Pete would only replace him with another puppet.

Any possible moves that can be thought of, WILL NOT FIX THIS. Pete's scheme turns all-pro's into avg.

Players are not developing. They're drafted, and they routinely stay the same or get worse over time.

The Seahawks problems are structural and systemic and lay at the feet of Pete Carroll.

Until this is understood the Seahawks cannot move forward as a franchise, they are trapped in purgatory.

They will only continue to steadily decline like they have been for many seasons. No matter what moves you can concoct in your mind, even if they were to actually happen. Things will not change until Pete is gone. That is when the rebuilding will actually start.

Click to expand...

Nailed it! :2thumbs:
The NFL has passed Pete by.

Tusc2000":2n9zoulm said:

hawker84":2n9zoulm said:

Been saying this for a few years now. Nothing will change until Carroll is gone..

Click to expand...

Yup. And when he's gone we will likely lose a lot more games. That the kind of change you're looking for?

Click to expand...

Yes. That is what we are looking for. Nothing changes unless something changes. Those of us who have been around understand how much it sucks to lose, but we also understand how much better it is seeing them get better because of change and start winning again.

Doing the same thing over and over again is the definition of insanity.

Something drastic has to occur. I mean...someone with certain and specific defensive philosophies, competing and ball security. Somewhere along the line it became extinct to modern football. Ineffective. I believe pete has lost his motivation and is just on auto pilot. Daily in and outs or just coasting by. I'm not sure he really has the concern for winning anymore. The will to be successful. He has started from the bottom a few times and he maybe looking at it like....I dont want to start fresh again...because it takes alot of focus and determination. Idk. He needs to get a fire going. Something

Defenses in the nfl are all suspect. Coaching points are not the same...honestly no one has any idea of how to stop nfl offenses. Not even the slightest bit. The best defenses in the league arent even that good anymore. In comparison to even 5 years ago. Every defense just sticks to their guns. Even when it doesnt work.

The zone offensive pass/ run blocking schemes need to go right to hell. If I see one more pass block zone with 3 lineman not touch a man because they let em free off the edge...I will lose it. It's the dumbest shit in the world to allow free shots at your qb. All while they maintain their zone to block air.

I miss man coverage, man blocking, man football. **** zones.

We will never see a great Corner again. The coaching philosophies are so off it's amazing. There will never be a ty law, ray Buchanan, shawn springs, jason sehorn, Dieon sanders, Darrel green etc. Everyone has lost site of what an extremely good corner is. No one even knows how to coach it and if they do...they arent in the league coaching currently.

I'm not necessarily against Pete at this point, but i see the frustration with his inability to adapt or change. The will to fight. Which is the true nature of competition. He needs to go back to the drawing board and adopt new philosophies and concepts. It's just time. If he cant do that or is unwilling, then we have to try something new. We have wasted some of russ and Bobby's good years trying to get back to the 2013 and 14 teams. The team should have always been trying to use the players to the best of their abilities and not try to fit them into an expired system.

Not saying pete needs to go. I want to see him adapt and overcome. If he cant...then you know.

Love Pete and everything he has done for the Hawks. But it feels like the game has passed him by, or at a minimum is currently doing so. The issues the team currently face most frequently (the slow starts, soft defense, absentmindedness) are all things that have gone on for years but were covered up by superior overall talent. Now that the squad is nowhere near as talented as in years past...they're more apparent/backbreaking than ever.

I want nothing more than for Pete to go out on top and on his own terms, but if things keep going the way they have been, I doubt he'll get that chance.

Tusc2000":251ukmtc said:

Re-build? You mean like the Jets and Lions keep doing? Because thta's what our future will look like with a re-build. For every HC like Sean McVay there is a Josh McDaniels. Hire the wrong coach, and last night's debacle will be a weekly reality. Thanks but no thanks.

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Less so if we had moved on from Pete years ago. This franchise had "it" for a while. That along with Wilson may have been enough to carry the team through a regime change. Now I think that is unlikely. But that isn't a reason to stand pat (or Pete). The longer Pete is left in control, the worse the rebuild is going to be. As much as Pete did to help this franchise early, he has now done more to harm it in his stubbornness and hubris. We have now had more than double the years of bad Pete than we did good Pete.

hawker84":2e9gfobj said:

Been saying this for a few years now. Nothing will change until Carroll is gone..

Click to expand...

Tusc2000":2e9gfobj said:

Yup. And when he's gone we will likely lose a lot more games. That the kind of change you're looking for?

Click to expand...

Yes, there's a good chance that if we fire Pete that we could end up being like the Lions or Jets. We could go 10 years without so much as making the playoffs.

But that's a chance I'm willing to take. Time for a change.

Water wet.

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Sex is almost always fun.

* mod edit *

Tusc2000":29v3mvzb said:

hawker84":29v3mvzb said:

Been saying this for a few years now. Nothing will change until Carroll is gone..

Click to expand...

Yup. And when he's gone we will likely lose a lot more games. That the kind of change you're looking for?

Click to expand...

Any change is what I'm looking for. If that means a brutal rebuild so be it. And P.S we're not winning now...