Identity on offense by doing it Pete Carroll’s way

LTH

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Salk: Seahawks found their identity on offense by doing it Pete Carroll’s way


https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1517595/ ... rolls-way/


I say I like this, I like this a lot... this is the way its supposed to be. Pete Carroll is the coach of this team and if he is going to be criticized and possibly fired he might as well do it his way...

I don't think Wilsons job is to be the OC... I say shut up and do your job Russell...


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TwistedHusky

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Well so far doing it Pete's way without Wilson, they get the identity of losers.

And Pete gets the identity of someone that would have been lucky be anything past a .500 coach without Wilson.

So maybe it is working.

Pete Carroll's way should be to let Wilson win it for him and stop screwing things up by meddling with simplistic and completely boneheaded gameplans.
 
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LTH

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TwistedHusky":ytqalwh4 said:
Well so far doing it Pete's way without Wilson, they get the identity of losers.

And Pete gets the identity of someone that would have been lucky be anything past a .500 coach without Wilson.

So maybe it is working.

Pete Carroll's way should be to let Wilson win it for him and stop screwing things up by meddling with simplistic and completely boneheaded gameplans.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion but Pete Carroll's way is running the ball... i can tell u didn't read the article...the fact that he has been compromising might be the reason the Seahawks have not had the success they have had in the past offensively and it is a factor of why the D has not been successful ( a factor not the only reason)


LTH
 

JayhawkMike

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So we have one halfish of looking good doing it Pete’s way. And the next teams aren’t going to see that and (I know it’s weird but) adjust? If we do against the Saints what we did 2/3 of the second half we will likely look more like we did at the end of the game after they adjusted. I loved when we picked up Collins and how he ran Sunday. I just don’t think it’s enough.
 

keasley45

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Don't disagree with this, and frankly, personally if I could swap our offense for any in the league in terms of style and attitude, it would be Tennessee. They are an intimidating team. Granted, we don't have king Henry, but nobody does. What we do have when Chris gets back, is a potential rotation of 2 starters (Carson and Collins - aka CnC Rushing Factory - coined right here just now) and as a backup... DJ Penny - also coined just now.

And if we can ever commit to scheming the TE into the plan, Everett (big physical TE), and DK ( big physical WR).

We absolutely need to establish the run. There hasn't been a game where we've played an entire half of offensive or defensive ball, and the best we've looked all together was last night when we put up 20 points in 2 quarters and pounded the snot out of a talented defense and held Pittsburgh to modest points. It's no coincidence that us running the way we did corresponded to our defense playing its best game of the season. Hoping from here forward the run game can mix smash mouth with finesse and continue to threaten the middle with the hits to the rb out of the backfield. That will force defenses to bring down their safeties and open up the long game consistently.
 
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LTH

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TwistedHusky":juqqcgs1 said:
Well so far doing it Pete's way without Wilson, they get the identity of losers.

And Pete gets the identity of someone that would have been lucky be anything past a .500 coach without Wilson.

So maybe it is working.

Pete Carroll's way should be to let Wilson win it for him and stop screwing things up by meddling with simplistic and completely boneheaded gameplans.


They should have won that game against the Steelers... If JA would have had that interception they would have won the game...

If Lewis and Collins don't get hurt get hurt they probably win the game...

they are so close what Keasley is saying up above is so spot on...

You watch they get that run game going and Seattle will roll

LTH
 

TwistedHusky

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You are correct on running the ball, for most teams.

Run blocking is easier for an OL. It is less physically taxing. Great run blockers are easier to find.

Totally makes sense.

BUT

The NFL has shifted the rules to favor passing offenses and passers.

And when you have a great QB, (which is rare enough to see a franchise get a HOF QB once or twice in their existence) then you have to review things.

You cannot take a generalist approach when you have a specialist and one of the best at the position.

Then you leverage the rules and strengths afforded to you toward the benefits/advantages the league affords you over most of the rest of the NFL. (Or you can be old, dumb, and stubborn.)

Perfect balance when your strength is passing does not make sense EVEN IF YOUR STRENGTH IS PA PASSING.

Because PA works even if they know you are passing.

The reason Pete wants to run the ball is because it is cheap but it does not help you in the playoffs, because your advantage was your QB and you refused to build your focus on that.

You build your attack on where you have the advantages. That Pete refuses to acknowledge this and keeps trying to force gameplans regardless of personnel - tells me he is too old figure it, too old to learn, and too old to ever change.

He would have forced the run whether he had Barry Sanders, Joe Montana, TJack, or Tom Brady. Because he cannot learn, adjust or adapt anymore. All he can do is try to force what worked before.


PS It didn't work. They lost. Just in case anyone forgot. I predicted this. Keeping games close while still losing and looking like you 'could have won' is vintage TyBall. And Carroll is morphing into the 2nd coming of Ty Willingham but for the NFL. Right down to all teh talent squandering & cluelessness.
 

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LTH":1irwlupb said:
TwistedHusky":1irwlupb said:
Well so far doing it Pete's way without Wilson, they get the identity of losers.

And Pete gets the identity of someone that would have been lucky be anything past a .500 coach without Wilson.

So maybe it is working.

Pete Carroll's way should be to let Wilson win it for him and stop screwing things up by meddling with simplistic and completely boneheaded gameplans.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion but Pete Carroll's way is running the ball... i can tell u didn't read the article...the fact that he has been compromising might be the reason the Seahawks have not had the success they have had in the past offensively and it is a factor of why the D has not been successful ( a factor not the only reason)


LTH


I have read the article and Twisted's statement stands. PC is a sub 500 coach in his career without Wilson. that a fact AS to the running the ball, okay and it got us what? A loss that what. A loss against one of the worse offenses in the league and defense missing 2 of its starting d lineman. As to the whole shut up Wilson thing, Ahh he is the starting Qb it is his job to voice his opinion period. FY there has been no compromise at all. All you need to do I look at the half of football we don't play. All the rest is nothing more than you and the writers trying to deflect from the only constant PC, there is the problem.

All that aside I agree we need a run game but the problem is, when we run we show the run play. FYI we are avg 23 runs a game and only 20 passes. Were avg 110 rushing per game. we are rushing problem is we're not consistent enough and with our defense, we cannot commit to giving it more attempts
 

keasley45

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JayhawkMike":28g82w54 said:
So we have one halfish of looking good doing it Pete’s way. And the next teams aren’t going to see that and (I know it’s weird but) adjust? If we do against the Saints what we did 2/3 of the second half we will likely look more like we did at the end of the game after they adjusted. I loved when we picked up Collins and how he ran Sunday. I just don’t think it’s enough.

If they do adjust we have a counter. The issue to date is that the counter to the 2 deep safety looks has been... crickets. We have yet to commit to the run the way we should. Instead, we've continued to try to drop back and rely on big plays from DK and Lock. If / when defenses do decide to bring a safety down, well then we can exploit the opening that creates in the secondary, and we have a beast of a TE to do that, plus DK and Lock.

I do think part of what's been holding the offense back is an adherence to the big play over logical play. Against the Steelers , we started the game trying to nickel and dime against a team that had a great pass rush and wouldn't allow us to get settled. I think we stayed there as long as we did because thats the way the offense has been drawn up when Russ is in in terms of how much we lean on the run. The difference when RW is playing though is rather than getting a reliable rushing play of 4 or 5 yards, we will take a pass and if it's covered, Russ will extend and make a play. But this makes us reliant not on a strategy, but solely on Russel's talent. And the challenge there is that Russ can't win us every play to sustain drives and that kind of play doesnt force defenses to do anything else but contain Russ and take away the longer developing deep plays to basically 2 of 5 potential wr targets (Tyler and DK).

In every game we've played, our offense has either played well but been either figured out by the half, or hasn't functioned unless Russ has manufactured magic off script - the 9ers game comes to mind ( the scramble TD and the spin / escape and TD pass). That's why there's been the talk about the lack of identity. We don't have one. We need one. Pete just waited too long to change it Sunday night.
 
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LTH

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TwistedHusky":ul806loa said:
You are correct on running the ball, for most teams.

Run blocking is easier for an OL. It is less physically taxing. Great run blockers are easier to find.

Totally makes sense.

BUT

The NFL has shifted the rules to favor passing offenses and passers.

And when you have a great QB, (which is rare enough to see a franchise get a HOF QB once or twice in their existence) then you have to review things.

You cannot take a generalist approach when you have a specialist and one of the best at the position.

Then you leverage the rules and strengths afforded to you toward the benefits/advantages the league affords you over most of the rest of the NFL. (Or you can be old, dumb, and stubborn.)

Perfect balance when your strength is passing does not make sense EVEN IF YOUR STRENGTH IS PA PASSING.

Because PA works even if they know you are passing.

The reason Pete wants to run the ball is because it is cheap but it does not help you in the playoffs, because your advantage was your QB and you refused to build your focus on that.

You build your attack on where you have the advantages. That Pete refuses to acknowledge this and keeps trying to force gameplans regardless of personnel - tells me he is too old figure it, too old to learn, and too old to ever change.

He would have forced the run whether he had Barry Sanders, Joe Montana, TJack, or Tom Brady. Because he cannot learn, adjust or adapt anymore. All he can do is try to force what worked before.


PS It didn't work. They lost. Just in case anyone forgot. I predicted this. Keeping games close while still losing and looking like you 'could have won' is vintage TyBall. And Carroll is morphing into the 2nd coming of Ty Willingham but for the NFL. Right down to all teh talent squandering & cluelessness.

What are you even talking about... everybody is up in arms because Pete won't adjust... when its shotty and Russ who don't want to do what is necessary to win... Last year when the let Russ cook thing started..

Did you read Keasleys post? he is spot on running the ball makes the D drop that 2 safety high look... it makes those safety's have to come down and help vs the run which opens up the passing game now all of a sudden Russ or Geno are not throwing into double coverage now they have potential single coverage and Russ and Geno are going to win that match up most of the time with the receivers they have...

LTH
 

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keasley45":2nbzw4z9 said:
JayhawkMike":2nbzw4z9 said:
So we have one halfish of looking good doing it Pete’s way. And the next teams aren’t going to see that and (I know it’s weird but) adjust? If we do against the Saints what we did 2/3 of the second half we will likely look more like we did at the end of the game after they adjusted. I loved when we picked up Collins and how he ran Sunday. I just don’t think it’s enough.

If they do adjust we have a counter. The issue to date is that the counter to the 2 deep safety looks has been... crickets. We have yet to commit to the run the way we should. Instead, we've continued to try to drop back and rely on big plays from DK and Lock. If / when defenses do decide to bring a safety down, well then we can exploit the opening that creates in the secondary, and we have a beast of a TE to do that, plus DK and Lock.

I do think part of what's been holding the offense back is an adherence to the big play over logical play. Against the Steelers , we started the game trying to nickel and dime against a team that had a great pass rush and wouldn't allow us to get settled. I think we stayed there as long as we did because thats the way the offense has been drawn up when Russ is in in terms of how much we lean on the run. The difference when RW is playing though is rather than getting a reliable rushing play of 4 or 5 yards, we will take a pass and if it's covered, Russ will extend and make a play. But this makes us reliant not on a strategy, but solely on Russel's talent. And the challenge there is that Russ can't win us every play to sustain drives and that kind of play doesnt force defenses to do anything else but contain Russ and take away the longer developing deep plays to basically 2 of 5 potential wr targets (Tyler and DK).

In every game we've played, our offense has either played well but been either figured out by the half, or hasn't functioned unless Russ has manufactured magic off script - the 9ers game comes to mind ( the scramble TD and the spin / escape and TD pass). That's why there's been the talk about the lack of identity. We don't have one. We need one. Pete just waited too long to change it Sunday night.


Bit your whole premise of all we do is drop back and throw long is wrong and has been proven, FUind the thread about passing charts you will see that we have been passing short a lot more than long. So sorry that stance is factually wrong. What has been holding the offense back is 1 penalty, 2 inconstancies in playcalling and design, and little adjustments.
 

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LTH":2k1t9mox said:
TwistedHusky":2k1t9mox said:
You are correct on running the ball, for most teams.

Run blocking is easier for an OL. It is less physically taxing. Great run blockers are easier to find.

Totally makes sense.

BUT

The NFL has shifted the rules to favor passing offenses and passers.

And when you have a great QB, (which is rare enough to see a franchise get a HOF QB once or twice in their existence) then you have to review things.

You cannot take a generalist approach when you have a specialist and one of the best at the position.

Then you leverage the rules and strengths afforded to you toward the benefits/advantages the league affords you over most of the rest of the NFL. (Or you can be old, dumb, and stubborn.)

Perfect balance when your strength is passing does not make sense EVEN IF YOUR STRENGTH IS PA PASSING.

Because PA works even if they know you are passing.

The reason Pete wants to run the ball is because it is cheap but it does not help you in the playoffs, because your advantage was your QB and you refused to build your focus on that.

You build your attack on where you have the advantages. That Pete refuses to acknowledge this and keeps trying to force gameplans regardless of personnel - tells me he is too old figure it, too old to learn, and too old to ever change.

He would have forced the run whether he had Barry Sanders, Joe Montana, TJack, or Tom Brady. Because he cannot learn, adjust or adapt anymore. All he can do is try to force what worked before.


PS It didn't work. They lost. Just in case anyone forgot. I predicted this. Keeping games close while still losing and looking like you 'could have won' is vintage TyBall. And Carroll is morphing into the 2nd coming of Ty Willingham but for the NFL. Right down to all teh talent squandering & cluelessness.

What are you even talking about... everybody is up in arms because Pete won't adjust... when its shotty and Russ who don't want to do what is necessary to win...

did you read Keasleys post? he is spot on running the ball makes the D drop that 2 saftey high look... it makes those saftey's have to come down and help vs the run which opens up the passing game now all of a sudden Russ or Geno are not throwing into double coverage now they have potential single coverage and Russ and Geno are going to win that match up most of the time with the receivers they have...

LTH


A short passing game can do that too, and has. The problem again is either we start slow or finish slow. It's obvious there is a change in philosophy during those stagnant halves. The question is is it PC or Waldron.


I say those 2 because those stagnant halves have 3 things in common

1. few if any audibles
2. the clock ticking down inside of 5 a lot.
3. lack of motion

Both those things are PC, but it is possible that Waldron is also doing it.
 

TwistedHusky

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LTH,

The problem with Pete Carroll's way is that it works.

Until it doesn't.

And it doesn't in the playoffs.

Now, consider what would happen if for 10+ maybe even 14 games, you spent the whole time playing a type of football that you then honed to being relatively sharp at.

And then what happens when you face the playoffs, and not only does it not work, but you aren't even used to playing the type of football you need to in order to be competitive that game. How would it look?

Would it be reasonable to expect that your linemen might have trouble blocking or even communicating amongst each other?
What about mistakes?
Is the playoffs the best time to figure out how to do something you never really bothered with in the regular season?

The challenge is you have to be willing to change, to take a short term hit to learn to do things a different way, in order to be successful in the long term.

And Pete will not. It does not matter how many times he fails at this. He will doggedly push forward with the same strategy and plan, despite roster, opponent, situation, or flaming meteors falling from the sky.

At this point, not only is it pretty clear he won't change - I don't think he can.

That is the problem here.






BTW I predicted this.

I predicted people would try to give him credit for losing. That he would do that TyBall thing that keeps games close, still loses, and people would fall all over themselves to somehow imply he was about to turn a corner.

Newsflash, this style of ball makes you look better than you are. But you still end up with a substandard record.
 

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LTH":3ojeos5g said:
TwistedHusky":3ojeos5g said:
Well so far doing it Pete's way without Wilson, they get the identity of losers.

And Pete gets the identity of someone that would have been lucky be anything past a .500 coach without Wilson.

So maybe it is working.

Pete Carroll's way should be to let Wilson win it for him and stop screwing things up by meddling with simplistic and completely boneheaded gameplans.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion but Pete Carroll's way is running the ball... i can tell u didn't read the article...the fact that he has been compromising might be the reason the Seahawks have not had the success they have had in the past offensively and it is a factor of why the D has not been successful ( a factor not the only reason)


LTH

the defense has been bad for at least 5 years now. Before "let russ cook" even started.

the problem with pete carroll stans is that the facts don't back up what they say.
 

ZagHawk

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LTH":3t2hl7gp said:
Salk: Seahawks found their identity on offense by doing it Pete Carroll’s way


https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1517595/ ... rolls-way/


I say I like this, I like this a lot... this is the way its supposed to be. Pete Carroll is the coach of this team and if he is going to be criticized and possibly fired he might as well do it his way...

I don't think Wilsons job is to be the OC... I say shut up and do your job Russell...


LTH

Are you like PCs childhood friend outside of this board?

Honestly im fine with PCs way if he blows it up, starts over and works to rebuild the team the way he likes it and want to play it. But he’s not going to and therefore he needs to go
 

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This article is good and all, but the reality is we had a bunch of all pros playing on rookie deals, and that afforded us the most expensive O-line in the league, all the while allowing us to have a pretty awesome defensive front. This is the real story, and trying to compare what we have now with that is not going to help anything. We found lightning in a bottle and the ride was glorious, but this team needs to rebuild and re-invent itself. The only problem I see doing so is will Russ want to stick around for that?

Further more, I saw this happen with the Canucks in 2012. They lost the cup final in 2011 to Boston, and then won the President's trophy the next year, but got swept in the first round of the playoffs, and the owner tried to hang on to aging assets to take another shot, when it was clear that the team was past it's window. This resulted in the Canucks only making it to the playoffs once since then(that is if you don't count the Covid "play in to the playoff series') and they still might now make it back this year either.

What I am saying is, stop holding on to the past, and start building again because this team is in a state of flux, and it needs a solid direction of where it is going instead of a having a front office trying to hold on to the glory years.
 

Tinamedina

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TwistedHusky":17jio12m said:
LTH,

The problem with Pete Carroll's way is that it works.

Until it doesn't.

And it doesn't in the playoffs.

Now, consider what would happen if for 10+ maybe even 14 games, you spent the whole time playing a type of football that you then honed to being relatively sharp at.

And then what happens when you face the playoffs, and not only does it not work, but you aren't even used to playing the type of football you need to in order to be competitive that game. How would it look?

Would it be reasonable to expect that your linemen might have trouble blocking or even communicating amongst each other?
What about mistakes?
Is the playoffs the best time to figure out how to do something you never really bothered with in the regular season?

The challenge is you have to be willing to change, to take a short term hit to learn to do things a different way, in order to be successful in the long term.

And Pete will not. It does not matter how many times he fails at this. He will doggedly push forward with the same strategy and plan, despite roster, opponent, situation, or flaming meteors falling from the sky.

At this point, not only is it pretty clear he won't change - I don't think he can.

That is the problem here.






BTW I predicted this.

I predicted people would try to give him credit for losing. That he would do that TyBall thing that keeps games close, still loses, and people would fall all over themselves to somehow imply he was about to turn a corner.

Newsflash, this style of ball makes you look better than you are. But you still end up with a substandard record.


it works until it doesn't and then carroll who doesn't support wilson cooking will be begging wilson to save him once again.
 

Fade

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Waldron got hijacked by Pete. Week 2 or 3 postgame Pete said that Shane Waldron is open to the things that they've been doing around here.

Go back and watch the week 1 offense. It looks nothing like you've seen since, outside of a few plays here and there.
 

Seahawker86

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what we are seeing is our o-line playing their best football in years. we are able to run the ball very effectively but unfortunately our OC isn't the best at scheming. he needs to be better at setting up the offensive and making the defense think we are going one way and then we go another way. especially on third down
 

Seahawker86

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what we are seeing is our o-line playing their best football in years. we are able to run the ball very effectively but unfortunately our OC isn't the best at scheming. he needs to be better at setting up the offensive and making the defense think we are going one way and then we go another way. especially on third down
 
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