Still waiting for that Waldron offense...

sutz · Oct 26, 2021

after we won the first game, we haven't seen much of the pre-snap motion, misdirection, and creative routes for the receivers.

We saw some of it in Game 1. Since then? You wouldn't know we have a new OC. :34853_doh:

John63 · Oct 26, 2021

sutz":158ull8q said:
after we won the first game, we haven't seen much of the pre-snap motion, misdirection, and creative routes for the receivers.

We saw some of it in Game 1. Since then? You wouldn't know we have a new OC. :34853_doh:

and why is that do you think? I can answer it in 2 letters....PC

pittpnthrs · Oct 27, 2021

I said it doesnt matter who the OC is because nothing will ever change, but people didnt want to hear that. It takes some people a long time to accept realizations.

hawker84 · Oct 27, 2021

We don't believe in going with what's working here in Seattle.

hawkfan68 · Oct 27, 2021

I have to agree with those who are saying it's PC. After 3 different OCs - Bates, Bevell, Schotty, and now currently on the 4th, Waldron. The offense still looks and operates the same - the common denom is Pete Carroll.

I'm under the belief that Shane gets a bit of pass. He's working with Geno Smith currently as his QB. Probably didn't envision that would happen. Therefore has to "dumb" down the creativity.

sutz · Oct 27, 2021

hawkfan68":1dhpw5ay said:
I have to agree with those who are saying it's PC. After 3 different OCs - Bates, Bevell, Schotty, and now currently on the 4th, Waldron. The offense still looks and operates the same - the common denom is Pete Carroll.

I'm under the belief that Shane gets a bit of pass. He's working with Geno Smith currently as his QB. Probably didn't envision that would happen. Therefore has to "dumb" down the creativity.

I would buy that if not for the fact that the "dumbing down" happened in Game 2. In Game 1 we saw some of what we expected, pre-snap motion, jet sweeps, fake reverses, lots of stuff that stopped abruptly after the win in Indy. Pretty curious that it stopped coming off of a win.

Almost makes me wonder if maybe Russ was the problem or at least part of it. After all, the short to intermediate patterns kind of drag down his YPA and YPC numbers. Throw in all that and we still can't attack the center of the field. Over the years we've cycled through what many would consider some top tier talent at TE and never managed to use them efficiently. Perhpas it's on PC, but the other constant over the years has been Russ, who has always preferred the deep ball and the outside routes over the crossing patterns and middle routes. And the short, quick passing game has always been sort of an after thought for Russ. He always seems to look deep first, than medium, then short almost regardless of the game situation.

Waldron was supposed to be able to fix that. Looked promising for 1 game, and then it all shut down. :229031_shrug:

scutterhawk · Oct 27, 2021

pittpnthrs":1zrxs8dq said:
I said it doesnt matter who the OC is because nothing will ever change, but people didnt want to hear that. It takes some people a long time to accept realizations.

Because even a blind squirrel can stumble onto a nut stash, & :roll: funny y'all would mention it taking SOME PEOPLE a long time to "Realize" >> That NOBODY likes or cares to hear from COCKY individuals, eh? :stirthepot:

JustTheTip · Oct 27, 2021

sutz":1ffg2olx said:
hawkfan68":1ffg2olx said:

I have to agree with those who are saying it's PC. After 3 different OCs - Bates, Bevell, Schotty, and now currently on the 4th, Waldron. The offense still looks and operates the same - the common denom is Pete Carroll.

I'm under the belief that Shane gets a bit of pass. He's working with Geno Smith currently as his QB. Probably didn't envision that would happen. Therefore has to "dumb" down the creativity.

Click to expand...

I would buy that if not for the fact that the "dumbing down" happened in Game 2. In Game 1 we saw some of what we expected, pre-snap motion, jet sweeps, fake reverses, lots of stuff that stopped abruptly after the win in Indy. Pretty curious that it stopped coming off of a win.

Almost makes me wonder if maybe Russ was the problem or at least part of it. After all, the short to intermediate patterns kind of drag down his YPA and YPC numbers. Throw in all that and we still can't attack the center of the field. Over the years we've cycled through what many would consider some top tier talent at TE and never managed to use them efficiently. Perhpas it's on PC, but the other constant over the years has been Russ, who has always preferred the deep ball and the outside routes over the crossing patterns and middle routes. And the short, quick passing game has always been sort of an after thought for Russ. He always seems to look deep first, than medium, then short almost regardless of the game situation.

Waldron was supposed to be able to fix that. Looked promising for 1 game, and then it all shut down. :229031_shrug:

Looked promising for 2 quarters. They came out of half-time of that game playing Pete Ball and haven't gone back to what was working so well since.

hawkfan68 · Oct 27, 2021

sutz":2id8d8nj said:
hawkfan68":2id8d8nj said:

I have to agree with those who are saying it's PC. After 3 different OCs - Bates, Bevell, Schotty, and now currently on the 4th, Waldron. The offense still looks and operates the same - the common denom is Pete Carroll.

I'm under the belief that Shane gets a bit of pass. He's working with Geno Smith currently as his QB. Probably didn't envision that would happen. Therefore has to "dumb" down the creativity.

Click to expand...

I would buy that if not for the fact that the "dumbing down" happened in Game 2. In Game 1 we saw some of what we expected, pre-snap motion, jet sweeps, fake reverses, lots of stuff that stopped abruptly after the win in Indy. Pretty curious that it stopped coming off of a win.

Almost makes me wonder if maybe Russ was the problem or at least part of it. After all, the short to intermediate patterns kind of drag down his YPA and YPC numbers. Throw in all that and we still can't attack the center of the field. Over the years we've cycled through what many would consider some top tier talent at TE and never managed to use them efficiently. Perhpas it's on PC, but the other constant over the years has been Russ, who has always preferred the deep ball and the outside routes over the crossing patterns and middle routes. And the short, quick passing game has always been sort of an after thought for Russ. He always seems to look deep first, than medium, then short almost regardless of the game situation.

Waldron was supposed to be able to fix that. Looked promising for 1 game, and then it all shut down. :229031_shrug:

I see your point. However, PC has a desire for explosive plays. Matt Hasselbeck didn't have as strong of an arm as RW does but was throwing deep balls more in 2010. I remember a 4th and 1 or 2 against KC that year instead of going for a sure first down, they threw a deep pass. Which was incomplete. It's one play but among the many that have happened since. So this was something prior to RW and Waldron.

This is from 2015 - https://www.seahawks.com/news/explo...nted-are-a-huge-factor-in-seahawks-suc-143751

This quote specifically -
"That's ultimately really important for successful teams," Carroll said of making explosive plays on offense and preventing them on defense. "You have to stop big plays from happening. You're not worth a darn on defense if you're giving up a bunch of explosive plays. What are you doing? The whole thing is to slow the thing down and give yourself a chance to stop people. The big plays are so significant in terms of scoring opportunities in terms of drives itself. That's a major factor."

Nothing wrong with explosive plays but I think PC and the team as a whole have made them a little one dimensional (especially when it comes to passing offense) due to them.

Sports Hernia · Oct 27, 2021

1st game is all you get Sutz. 8)
It worked great, and they’ll expect it now, so let’s stop doing it.
Dumb coach logic 101.

hawkfan68 · Oct 28, 2021

It may worthy of note that this is Shane Waldron's first year as a full time play caller. Usually McVay was the primary play caller for the Rams.

"In order to take the next step in his career, Waldron had to leave Los Angeles. Despite getting occasional chances to call plays and run the Rams’ offense the past couple of seasons, it was never going to be his system working alongside McVay.

“It’s been a goal of mine for a long time. I’ve been lucky enough to be in some places, especially my most recent stop with Sean McVay who did such a great job letting me continue to grow and develop as an assistant coach when I was there and getting some different opportunities along the way to help me prepare for this moment,” Waldron said. “Like I said, I’ve been preparing for this moment my whole life and I’m excited to get the opportunity.”"

Here's the link to the full article - https://apnews.com/article/sports-n...eddie-vedder-6e3b2fd45ce036012b924b11dc353c2e

ZagHawk · Oct 28, 2021

sutz":2yaa4opb said:
after we won the first game, we haven't seen much of the pre-snap motion, misdirection, and creative routes for the receivers.

We saw some of it in Game 1. Since then? You wouldn't know we have a new OC. :34853_doh:

The ESPN guys were poking fun at Pete Caroll after game 1 about being able to win a game in the 1st half...and then suddenly things changed back to the same Seahawks we always see...interesting huh?

John63 · Oct 28, 2021

hawkfan68":3jbld974 said:
It may worthy of note that this is Shane Waldron's first year as a full time play caller. Usually McVay was the primary play caller for the Rams.

"In order to take the next step in his career, Waldron had to leave Los Angeles. Despite getting occasional chances to call plays and run the Rams’ offense the past couple of seasons, it was never going to be his system working alongside McVay.

“It’s been a goal of mine for a long time. I’ve been lucky enough to be in some places, especially my most recent stop with Sean McVay who did such a great job letting me continue to grow and develop as an assistant coach when I was there and getting some different opportunities along the way to help me prepare for this moment,” Waldron said. “Like I said, I’ve been preparing for this moment my whole life and I’m excited to get the opportunity.”"

Here's the link to the full article - https://apnews.com/article/sports-n...eddie-vedder-6e3b2fd45ce036012b924b11dc353c2e

and then he comes here and its still no this system

Fade · Oct 28, 2021

It's been insane watching an offense that was built perfectly for the current personnel, with all of that movement and motion be gutted and regress back to the straightforward, predictable mess that it once again is.

When Pete said "Shane is open to the things we've been doing around here." It was over.

HawkOG70’ · Oct 28, 2021

Hard to do with musical runningbacks. Alex Collins is no more than a backup. Homer is better IMO. Carson can't stay on the field and Deejay is more of a gadget guy. Rashad Penny is Prosise 2.o. I'd give my left nut for Derrick Henry

ZagHawk · Oct 28, 2021

Fade":2soe98r8 said:
It's been insane watching an offense that was built perfectly for the current personnel, with all of that movement and motion be gutted and regress back to the straightforward, predictable mess that it once again is.

When Pete said "Shane is open to the things we've been doing around here." It was over.

Pete season after season can't wait to use any game to prove his way is the way to go. Oh look the run game picked up in the 3rd quarter against the Steelers, gotta run the ball (against the second ranked run defense in the NFL).

Oh look there was a game where the Hawks took the lead early but went flat in the second half. Rather than question how to keep it going for four quarters, lets go back to playing field position for the first 3 quarters of a game.

Pete reminds me of big corporations that have leaders that always claim they want to do new things, bring in new people with bright ideas and then force them to do it the way they want it and things stay the same. And then only after about 3-4 failed little guys that keep taking the fall, finally the guy up top gets booted. Or hell this can apply to any management (I'm sure folks still in the working world on this board, have seen this time and time again).

chris98251 · Oct 28, 2021

ZagHawk":1hj2osd6 said:
Fade":1hj2osd6 said:

It's been insane watching an offense that was built perfectly for the current personnel, with all of that movement and motion be gutted and regress back to the straightforward, predictable mess that it once again is.

When Pete said "Shane is open to the things we've been doing around here." It was over.

Click to expand...

Pete season after season can't wait to use any game to prove his way is the way to go. Oh look the run game picked up in the 3rd quarter against the Steelers, gotta run the ball (against the second ranked run defense in the NFL).

Oh look there was a game where the Hawks took the lead early but went flat in the second half. Rather than question how to keep it going for four quarters, lets go back to playing field position for the first 3 quarters of a game.

Pete reminds me of big corporations that have leaders that always claim they want to do new things, bring in new people with bright ideas and then force them to do it the way they want it and things stay the same. And then only after about 3-4 failed little guys that keep taking the fall, finally the guy up top gets booted. Or hell this can apply to any management (I'm sure folks still in the working world on this board, have seen this time and time again).

Well it's also don't let anyone know there is a smarter person in the room or you lose the Penthouse view.

ZagHawk · Oct 28, 2021

chris98251":bzjb9oi4 said:
ZagHawk":bzjb9oi4 said:

Fade":bzjb9oi4 said:

It's been insane watching an offense that was built perfectly for the current personnel, with all of that movement and motion be gutted and regress back to the straightforward, predictable mess that it once again is.

When Pete said "Shane is open to the things we've been doing around here." It was over.

Click to expand...

Pete season after season can't wait to use any game to prove his way is the way to go. Oh look the run game picked up in the 3rd quarter against the Steelers, gotta run the ball (against the second ranked run defense in the NFL).

Oh look there was a game where the Hawks took the lead early but went flat in the second half. Rather than question how to keep it going for four quarters, lets go back to playing field position for the first 3 quarters of a game.

Pete reminds me of big corporations that have leaders that always claim they want to do new things, bring in new people with bright ideas and then force them to do it the way they want it and things stay the same. And then only after about 3-4 failed little guys that keep taking the fall, finally the guy up top gets booted. Or hell this can apply to any management (I'm sure folks still in the working world on this board, have seen this time and time again).

Click to expand...

Well it's also don't let anyone know there is a smarter person in the room or you lose the Penthouse view.

That is a very true statement, which leads to situations like we see today for sure. Or businesses that can't seem to pull their heads out of their asses the way they run.

HawkRiderFan · Oct 28, 2021

ArlosSpecial":k4c80fjn said:
Hard to do with musical runningbacks. Alex Collins is no more than a backup. Homer is better IMO. Carson can't stay on the field and Deejay is more of a gadget guy. Rashad Penny is Prosise 2.o. I'd give my left nut for Derrick Henry

Which made it even more bizarre to just continue to run between the tackles vs an 8 man front.

LTH · Oct 28, 2021

sutz":1i6vavcl said:
hawkfan68":1i6vavcl said:

I have to agree with those who are saying it's PC. After 3 different OCs - Bates, Bevell, Schotty, and now currently on the 4th, Waldron. The offense still looks and operates the same - the common denom is Pete Carroll.

I'm under the belief that Shane gets a bit of pass. He's working with Geno Smith currently as his QB. Probably didn't envision that would happen. Therefore has to "dumb" down the creativity.

Click to expand...

I would buy that if not for the fact that the "dumbing down" happened in Game 2. In Game 1 we saw some of what we expected, pre-snap motion, jet sweeps, fake reverses, lots of stuff that stopped abruptly after the win in Indy. Pretty curious that it stopped coming off of a win.

Almost makes me wonder if maybe Russ was the problem or at least part of it. After all, the short to intermediate patterns kind of drag down his YPA and YPC numbers. Throw in all that and we still can't attack the center of the field. Over the years we've cycled through what many would consider some top tier talent at TE and never managed to use them efficiently. Perhpas it's on PC, but the other constant over the years has been Russ, who has always preferred the deep ball and the outside routes over the crossing patterns and middle routes. And the short, quick passing game has always been sort of an after thought for Russ. He always seems to look deep first, than medium, then short almost regardless of the game situation.

Waldron was supposed to be able to fix that. Looked promising for 1 game, and then it all shut down. :229031_shrug:

The one thing I know is there are lots of things going on behind the scenes that we as fans don't know about... I totally sure that Pete does things for specific reasons and then just doesn't talk about it which is kind of a bad thing cause then it leaves it open for speculation but that is just the way Pete is...

But I agree with you Russ has some responsibility in this unfortunately nobody is going to be clear about it..

But thats ok just Fire Pete and all of Seattle's problems will go away :sarcasm_on:

LTH

Still waiting for that Waldron offense...

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