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Wilson’s head is the issue not his finger

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  • Those saying Wilson came back too soon need to really look at what went wrong yesterday. He made a ton of poor decisions that kept the O from sustaining drives and scoring points. He was 2 of 15 in passes over 10 yards. That’s 13%. I’m tired of his hero ball crap and just want to have him manage the game and take what they give you.

    Sure he’s not 100% physically but the bigger issue is in his mind.

    FYI his issues started well prior to yesterday.
    seabowl
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  • Very true...he made some poor decisions (rookie like mistakes) in the game yesterday.
    hawkfan68
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  • Almost like he was rusty from not playing in over a month.
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  • Stop making sense, we don't do that here. He had a bad game. That now means he sucks and should be benched and traded in the off season :?
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  • I'd think lightben2's post would have a long wait finding approval. Really strange way to make an entrance onto a FOOTBALL board. Looks more like saying your goodbyes before you even said hello.
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  • He had a bad game. It happens. His mental mistakes far outweighed his physical issues.

    Even with all that, I thought it was a game we had a chance to win.
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  • It was both yesterday.

    Russell was not ready to play physically, his finger was a glaring issue the entire game in 30 degree weather with the wind and field conditions.

    And that compounded the normal rust of not having played in a month.

    What's going on here is what I said would happen last week, this was Russell's call, not Pete's........and that may seem like not a big deal. But put a coach like Belichick in this same situation? No way Belichick lets Russell play at 60-70%, he tells him to sit another week or two.

    But Pete is so afraid of losing his job and grip on this team that he's allowing Russell to dictate when he's playing or not.......and of course Russell being Russell, he needs to prove to the world that he's some healing super hero with the twitter videos and I only slept 4-5 hrs a day cause I had to rehab the finger nonsense.

    It was all BS. Russell should have been on the bench as an emergency QB yesterday. He wasn't ready. Period.
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  • seabowl wrote:
    FYI his issues started well prior to yesterday.


    Are you going to provide anything to support that assertion?


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  • Remember when he referred to his alter-ego as " Mr. Unlimited " ? Sadly, he wasn't joking .
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  • xray wrote:Remember when he referred to his alter-ego as " Mr. Unlimited " ? Sadly, he wasn't joking .

    this
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  • KinesProf wrote:
    seabowl wrote:
    FYI his issues started well prior to yesterday.


    Are you going to provide anything to support that assertion?




    I get it but from mid season on last year this O and his play have dropped off dramatically. He has been slow, indecisive, and looks for the splash play too often.

    This O needs DRIVES not quick outs.

    Again I get the numbers may look good but stats don't win games.
    seabowl
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:It was both yesterday.

    Russell was not ready to play physically, his finger was a glaring issue the entire game in 30 degree weather with the wind and field conditions.

    And that compounded the normal rust of not having played in a month.

    What's going on here is what I said would happen last week, this was Russell's call, not Pete's........and that may seem like not a big deal. But put a coach like Belichick in this same situation? No way Belichick lets Russell play at 60-70%, he tells him to sit another week or two.

    But Pete is so afraid of losing his job and grip on this team that he's allowing Russell to dictate when he's playing or not.......and of course Russell being Russell, he needs to prove to the world that he's some healing super hero with the twitter videos and I only slept 4-5 hrs a day cause I had to rehab the finger nonsense.

    It was all BS. Russell should have been on the bench as an emergency QB yesterday. He wasn't ready. Period.


    I was about to make my comments about Russ but you just saved me the time. Exactly my viewpoint.

    Geno should have played yesterday. Let Russ sit another week or two or three if need be. His ego betrays his common sense at this stage. In my mind, he put himself above the team yesterday.
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  • He needs to sit against the Cards, maybe even the game after too.

    I would have never played him yesterday.

    Not just not 100% but cold weather exacerbates some injury symptoms.

    It made no sense.
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  • If Pete sat Russ, went through GB game with Geno. Lost 17-0 with Geno, would you esteemed ladies and gentlemen still insist that Russ should have start d the game?

    Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk
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  • toffee wrote:If Pete sat Russ, went through GB game with Geno. Lost 17-0 with Geno, would you esteemed ladies and gentlemen still insist that Russ should have start d the game?

    Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk


    Maybe. We'll never know if Geno would have been more effective than a 60-70% Russell.

    Considering we just got shut out for the first time in over a decade......I'm thinking the answer is yes, Geno would have been more effective.
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  • Russ certainly didnt play well but i dont think it was his injury. hes never played well in greenbay so dont think it would have mattered. Also the offensive line was horrible, had no running game to work with, and the few throws that he did make were dropped. as a whole the team simply didnt show up and its been becoming more and more common through the years. i think guys are just tired of petes rah rah attitude. locker room is lost right now.
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  • One problem with your original theory/post. If you guys are not taking into account wide reciever on the seahawks than blaming russ' decision making is useless. How do you throw a ball with out any one open? Gee well just throw it out of bounds so you do get sacked. No. That is an option, but you try to make a play down until you cant. Otherwise, the b!@ch on this site would whine about 3 and outs where russ is constantly throwing the ball out. Anyone wonder why lockett and metcalf barely had any receptions? Then wonder why russ was just throwing the ball up for grabs? Maybe hoping someone can make a play. But they didnt. Yes russ sailed some balls. Missed swain on a diving td. Probably missed some open recievers here and there.

    I'm sick of this site constantly looking for someone to blame. Did russ play perfect...no. Hardly his fault completely. Team game guys. Stop making posts questioning peoples minds, spirit and decision making. Its gross. Its judgemental and I can gurantee no one does that to you. Cuz if they did...I wouldnt see any posts discussing others faults.
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  • classicaaron wrote:Russ certainly didnt play well but i dont think it was his injury. hes never played well in greenbay so dont think it would have mattered. Also the offensive line was horrible, had no running game to work with, and the few throws that he did make were dropped. as a whole the team simply didnt show up and its been becoming more and more common through the years. i think guys are just tired of petes rah rah attitude. locker room is lost right now.



    There were about half a dozen throws that clearly sailed on him and the easiest explanation is a grip issue. Unfortunately his endzone picks weren't ones that sailed. They just went into a terrible window he chose to throw into.
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  • 12th Dimension wrote:He had a bad game. It happens. His mental mistakes far outweighed his physical issues.

    Even with all that, I thought it was a game we had a chance to win.



    Well the way I see it is that this was gthe issue last year... Russ just has this thing to where he wants to be a gun slinger and he is forcing balls into double coverage not because he is being selfish its because he believes he can make the play and Defenses have adjusted to him but he keeps throwing into double coverage and throwing INT's instead of taking what the D gives him and forcing the D to adjust to him again... The big plays will happen if he is patient but he is not.. he needs to wait until he gets a one on one with Metcalf or Lockett and that's not going to happen unless he adjusts to what the D is doing...


    People want to blame Carroll but its not Carroll or Waldron it's the decisions Russ is making... Geno is not as good a QB as Russ physically but I think he would have had a better game than Russ did purely because of his decision making...



    LTH
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  • I know man I saw him air sparing on the sidelines and I'd bet a million bucks he had eye of the tiger on the head phones
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    toffee wrote:If Pete sat Russ, went through GB game with Geno. Lost 17-0 with Geno, would you esteemed ladies and gentlemen still insist that Russ should have start d the game?

    Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk


    Maybe. We'll never know if Geno would have been more effective than a 60-70% Russell.

    Considering we just got shut out for the first time in over a decade......I'm thinking the answer is yes, Geno would have been more effective.


    I am with you, I do think Geno may give us better result. BUT, here's the thing, if Geno won the game for us, all is good except Russ may not be happy. IF Geno couldn't win the game for us, said it ended with 14-19. EVERY 12 wants Pete's head on a plate right there and then, under the logic that if Geno could score 14, Russ could scored more and even win.

    Therefore I can understand why Wilson started the game, but Pete didn't have the balls to pull him at half time or in 3rd quarter. I won't be surprised if Geno wins the game if Russ was pulled in 3rd.
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  • He talked himself into sucking IMO. He made several pre game comments to the effect that "I'm not quite 100% but I'm ready". Making excuses before you get on the field, not a good look or result.
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  • DK dropped 2 passes. Let me guess, that's Russ' fault too.
    While he played like crap, the 5 year old needs to catch the ball too.
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  • toffee wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    toffee wrote:If Pete sat Russ, went through GB game with Geno. Lost 17-0 with Geno, would you esteemed ladies and gentlemen still insist that Russ should have start d the game?

    Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk


    Maybe. We'll never know if Geno would have been more effective than a 60-70% Russell.

    Considering we just got shut out for the first time in over a decade......I'm thinking the answer is yes, Geno would have been more effective.


    I am with you, I do think Geno may give us better result. BUT, here's the thing, if Geno won the game for us, all is good except Russ may not be happy. IF Geno couldn't win the game for us, said it ended with 14-19. EVERY 12 wants Pete's head on a plate right there and then, under the logic that if Geno could score 14, Russ could scored more and even win.

    Therefore I can understand why Wilson started the game, but Pete didn't have the balls to pull him at half time or in 3rd quarter. I won't be surprised if Geno wins the game if Russ was pulled in 3rd.


    I agree with this. There was tremendous pressure to start RW ready or not as soon as he was "Cleared".
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  • If another QB came back as quick as he did, tried to tough it out and struggled, would people be blasting him? Someone like Rodgers or Brady would get the "he's just trying to win for his team" treatment.

    Facts
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  • jamescasey1124 wrote:One problem with your original theory/post. If you guys are not taking into account wide reciever on the seahawks than blaming russ' decision making is useless. How do you throw a ball with out any one open? Gee well just throw it out of bounds so you do get sacked. No. That is an option, but you try to make a play down until you cant. Otherwise, the b!@ch on this site would whine about 3 and outs where russ is constantly throwing the ball out. Anyone wonder why lockett and metcalf barely had any receptions? Then wonder why russ was just throwing the ball up for grabs? Maybe hoping someone can make a play. But they didnt. Yes russ sailed some balls. Missed swain on a diving td. Probably missed some open recievers here and there.

    I'm sick of this site constantly looking for someone to blame. Did russ play perfect...no. Hardly his fault completely. Team game guys. Stop making posts questioning peoples minds, spirit and decision making. Its gross. Its judgemental and I can gurantee no one does that to you. Cuz if they did...I wouldnt see any posts discussing others faults.


    True, GB's defense did a great job. So did ours covering their receivers. But AR's response wasn't throwing at triple covered receivers. I don't think most folks are faulting Russ for the wr's not being open. But you and others would have absolutely crucified Geno for making some of the decisions andnthrows that he did. The answer to constant pressure can be found in running the ball. It cant be found in short throws to the flat or behind the LOS or in not even attacking the area of the field the defense is leaving vulnerable.

    We played GB to a draw into the 4th. The difference was that AR made us pay for the success we were having early on while we just let GB keep pounding us. But all the cries will be about lack of protection. Teams will continue to sell out to rush the qb until we prove that we can make them change that approach.

    And sorry, but even on the drive in the 4th where we needed a score to close their 10 point lead... any score at all, the decision to just heave the ball up to Lockett was ill advised at best. But its EXACTLY the strategy he used to close out the Tennesee game in OT and then defended. In both instances, the game was still winnable, and instead of stringing together plays that could continue a drive, we chuck it up on the faith that our players will make a play.

    You can't sustain an offense or wins over a period of years in the NFL on faith and magic. That's what strategy is for. And we have no discernable strategy other than to toss it to No 14 or No 16, close your eyes and hope. The lone caveat last night was finally getting Everett and Dissly involved... to pretty significant success. And then, like with the running game, we leave it ... and just heave it.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:DK dropped 2 passes. Let me guess, that's Russ' fault too.
    While he played like crap, the 5 year old needs to catch the ball too.



    I'm not trying to say anything other than every great QB has to find the balance between having enough confidence to thread the needle and knowing when to check down...It absolutely is VERY easy to second guess Russ, point taken, but this has been an issue into last year. People want to put blame every where but Russ... The very best example is Brett Farve, Holmgren went round and round with him trying to get him to "get it" Holmgren did the Same thing with Hasselbeck...If there is a criticism of Carroll from my perspective is that he needs to hold Russ accountable and stop pandering to him...


    LTH
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  • LTH wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:DK dropped 2 passes. Let me guess, that's Russ' fault too.
    While he played like crap, the 5 year old needs to catch the ball too.



    I'm not trying to say anything other than every great QB has to find the balance between having enough confidence to thread the needle and knowing when to check down...It absolutely is VERY easy to second guess Russ, point taken, but this has been an issue into last year. People want to put blame every where but Russ... The very best example is Brett Farve, Holmgren went round and round with him trying to get him to "get it" Holmgren did the Same thing with Hasselbeck...If there is a criticism of Carroll from my perspective is that he needs to hold Russ accountable and stop pandering to him...


    LTH


    Will echo that:

    There are multiple truths here on both sides.

    True, Carrol has coddled Russ.

    And True, that Carrol benefited from Russ pulling out game after game in historic fashion. So he likely felt the protection of his qb justified.

    Also True that Carrols system isn't passer friendly from a statistal perspective.

    AND that any QB might put up better numbers in a more purely passer friendly scheme.

    BUT its ALSO true that Carrols system IS Qb friendly in the sense that it doesn't require a PHD in x and o's to understand... which doesn't make it anymore antiquated than the defense that we are seeing the rebirth of. It just means you have to be able to counter what the defense is doing. Which also doesn't require a PHD.

    But it's debatable whether Russ's vision of himself as a Brady or Brees or Rodgers type of ANTICIPATORY QB is accurate or whether his skill is more REACTIONARY... and whether instead, the system that in some ways 'held him back', also allowed him to maximize his ability while minimizing his weaknesses - anticipating coverages, rushes, and hitting the entire field.

    Question now is whether we've seen the best of Russ now that after 10 years, the plays and schemes that fit what he can do have pretty much all been put on tape. Defenses line up to stop us both at the LOS and in covering our wr's and win now 65% of the time. In essence, the well has run dry, unless we do things like hit the shallow middle (geno did this but Russ has not), utilize the TE ( we did this and caught GB completely off guard), or reset the balance with the run game - which we refuse to do.

    It's obvious we need to do the last 3. We will see if we can craft enough of a gamelan to accomplish anything.
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  • KinesProf wrote:
    seabowl wrote:
    FYI his issues started well prior to yesterday.


    Are you going to provide anything to support that assertion?





    always amazing how the facts almost always shows the anti-Wilson crowd is clueless and resort to making crap up/
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:If another QB came back as quick as he did, tried to tough it out and struggled, would people be blasting him? Someone like Rodgers or Brady would get the "he's just trying to win for his team" treatment.

    Facts



    This
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  • John63 wrote:
    KinesProf wrote:
    seabowl wrote:
    FYI his issues started well prior to yesterday.


    Are you going to provide anything to support that assertion?





    always amazing how the facts almost always shows the anti-Wilson crowd is clueless and resort to making crap up/


    The only thing those stats prove is how boom or bust the offense has been.

    You want to cherry pick the first 5 games this year? How about the last 5 games last year?

    What you will find is inconsistency.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:DK dropped 2 passes. Let me guess, that's Russ' fault too.
    While he played like crap, the 5 year old needs to catch the ball too.

    Yeah they were poor passes. Not DK's fault. Did you even watch the game? One pass was behind DK and it bounced hard off the back of his shoulder pad. Wilson stank as guy :rumble: it was uncatchable. Stop excusing Wilson's poor play you do that too much. Accept that he's regressed and that we need to trade him for a rebuild. Perfect year to trade him this offseason.
    Last edited by ArlosSpecial on Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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  • keasley45 wrote:
    LTH wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:DK dropped 2 passes. Let me guess, that's Russ' fault too.
    While he played like crap, the 5 year old needs to catch the ball too.



    I'm not trying to say anything other than every great QB has to find the balance between having enough confidence to thread the needle and knowing when to check down...It absolutely is VERY easy to second guess Russ, point taken, but this has been an issue into last year. People want to put blame every where but Russ... The very best example is Brett Farve, Holmgren went round and round with him trying to get him to "get it" Holmgren did the Same thing with Hasselbeck...If there is a criticism of Carroll from my perspective is that he needs to hold Russ accountable and stop pandering to him...


    LTH


    Will echo that:

    There are multiple truths here on both sides.

    True, Carrol has coddled Russ.

    And True, that Carrol benefited from Russ pulling out game after game in historic fashion. So he likely felt the protection of his qb justified.

    Also True that Carrols system isn't passer friendly from a statistal perspective.

    AND that any QB might put up better numbers in a more purely passer friendly scheme.

    BUT its ALSO true that Carrols system IS Qb friendly in the sense that it doesn't require a PHD in x and o's to understand... which doesn't make it anymore antiquated than the defense that we are seeing the rebirth of. It just means you have to be able to counter what the defense is doing. Which also doesn't require a PHD.

    But it's debatable whether Russ's vision of himself as a Brady or Brees or Rodgers type of ANTICIPATORY QB is accurate or whether his skill is more REACTIONARY... and whether instead, the system that in some ways 'held him back', also allowed him to maximize his ability while minimizing his weaknesses - anticipating coverages, rushes, and hitting the entire field.

    Question now is whether we've seen the best of Russ now that after 10 years, the plays and schemes that fit what he can do have pretty much all been put on tape. Defenses line up to stop us both at the LOS and in covering our wr's and win now 65% of the time. In essence, the well has run dry, unless we do things like hit the shallow middle (geno did this but Russ has not), utilize the TE ( we did this and caught GB completely off guard), or reset the balance with the run game - which we refuse to do.

    It's obvious we need to do the last 3. We will see if we can craft enough of a gamelan to accomplish anything.

    The Seahawks defense actually has been throwing out some exotic coverages the last few games. It isn't the cover 3 stuff we're used to seeing on defense. Lots of really interesting looks we've been throwing out lately. Aaron Rodgers was even fooled by some of the coverage switch ups we were running. We're showing one look pre-snap and running another when we drop back into coverage. This is a huge departure from what we normally have done under Pete.

    On offense we don't need to have the most modern, cutting edge offense but we do need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot with the way we approach the offense. We're not putting our guys in the best positions and we're tipping what we're going to do pre-snap. The best offenses in the NFL don't do that. This allows the defense to play with their ears pinned back. Waiting until the final moment to snap the ball is also something we need to stop. You're essentially giving the opposing defense a free jump on the ball.
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  • Yeah, it's Russ' fault that DK has dropped SEVERAL passes since he came in to the league.
    Again, I did NOT say Russ played well, he was bad yesterday.
    Maybe you should stop making excuses for DK??
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:
    LTH wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:DK dropped 2 passes. Let me guess, that's Russ' fault too.
    While he played like crap, the 5 year old needs to catch the ball too.



    I'm not trying to say anything other than every great QB has to find the balance between having enough confidence to thread the needle and knowing when to check down...It absolutely is VERY easy to second guess Russ, point taken, but this has been an issue into last year. People want to put blame every where but Russ... The very best example is Brett Farve, Holmgren went round and round with him trying to get him to "get it" Holmgren did the Same thing with Hasselbeck...If there is a criticism of Carroll from my perspective is that he needs to hold Russ accountable and stop pandering to him...


    LTH


    Will echo that:

    There are multiple truths here on both sides.

    True, Carrol has coddled Russ.

    And True, that Carrol benefited from Russ pulling out game after game in historic fashion. So he likely felt the protection of his qb justified.

    Also True that Carrols system isn't passer friendly from a statistal perspective.

    AND that any QB might put up better numbers in a more purely passer friendly scheme.

    BUT its ALSO true that Carrols system IS Qb friendly in the sense that it doesn't require a PHD in x and o's to understand... which doesn't make it anymore antiquated than the defense that we are seeing the rebirth of. It just means you have to be able to counter what the defense is doing. Which also doesn't require a PHD.

    But it's debatable whether Russ's vision of himself as a Brady or Brees or Rodgers type of ANTICIPATORY QB is accurate or whether his skill is more REACTIONARY... and whether instead, the system that in some ways 'held him back', also allowed him to maximize his ability while minimizing his weaknesses - anticipating coverages, rushes, and hitting the entire field.

    Question now is whether we've seen the best of Russ now that after 10 years, the plays and schemes that fit what he can do have pretty much all been put on tape. Defenses line up to stop us both at the LOS and in covering our wr's and win now 65% of the time. In essence, the well has run dry, unless we do things like hit the shallow middle (geno did this but Russ has not), utilize the TE ( we did this and caught GB completely off guard), or reset the balance with the run game - which we refuse to do.

    It's obvious we need to do the last 3. We will see if we can craft enough of a gamelan to accomplish anything.

    The Seahawks defense actually has been throwing out some exotic coverages the last few games. It isn't the cover 3 stuff we're used to seeing on defense. Lots of really interesting looks we've been throwing out lately. Aaron Rodgers was even fooled by some of the coverage switch ups we were running. We're showing one look pre-snap and running another when we drop back into coverage. This is a huge departure from what we normally have done under Pete.

    On offense we don't need to have the most modern, cutting edge offense but we do need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot with the way we approach the offense. We're not putting our guys in the best positions and we're tipping what we're going to do pre-snap. The best offenses in the NFL don't do that. This allows the defense to play with their ears pinned back. Waiting until the final moment to snap the ball is also something we need to stop. You're essentially giving the opposing defense a free jump on the ball.


    AR routinely snaps the ball with 1 second on the clock. Doesn't seem to hurt him.

    And our offense this year has gotten to the LOS pretty often with 12 to 15 seconds on the clock ... and then taken it to zero with a change of play.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Yeah, it's Russ' fault that DK has dropped SEVERAL passes since he came in to the league.
    Again, I did NOT say Russ played well, he was bad yesterday.
    Maybe you should stop making excuses for DK??


    Why do the DK drops keep coming up?? There's a pile of stuff outside of that to wonder about. And it wasn't 'several '.

    I'm not even upset about his errant passes. It's what's not happening from play to play in terms of reads, adjustments and decision making.
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  • keasley45 wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:
    LTH wrote:

    I'm not trying to say anything other than every great QB has to find the balance between having enough confidence to thread the needle and knowing when to check down...It absolutely is VERY easy to second guess Russ, point taken, but this has been an issue into last year. People want to put blame every where but Russ... The very best example is Brett Farve, Holmgren went round and round with him trying to get him to "get it" Holmgren did the Same thing with Hasselbeck...If there is a criticism of Carroll from my perspective is that he needs to hold Russ accountable and stop pandering to him...


    LTH


    Will echo that:

    There are multiple truths here on both sides.

    True, Carrol has coddled Russ.

    And True, that Carrol benefited from Russ pulling out game after game in historic fashion. So he likely felt the protection of his qb justified.

    Also True that Carrols system isn't passer friendly from a statistal perspective.

    AND that any QB might put up better numbers in a more purely passer friendly scheme.

    BUT its ALSO true that Carrols system IS Qb friendly in the sense that it doesn't require a PHD in x and o's to understand... which doesn't make it anymore antiquated than the defense that we are seeing the rebirth of. It just means you have to be able to counter what the defense is doing. Which also doesn't require a PHD.

    But it's debatable whether Russ's vision of himself as a Brady or Brees or Rodgers type of ANTICIPATORY QB is accurate or whether his skill is more REACTIONARY... and whether instead, the system that in some ways 'held him back', also allowed him to maximize his ability while minimizing his weaknesses - anticipating coverages, rushes, and hitting the entire field.

    Question now is whether we've seen the best of Russ now that after 10 years, the plays and schemes that fit what he can do have pretty much all been put on tape. Defenses line up to stop us both at the LOS and in covering our wr's and win now 65% of the time. In essence, the well has run dry, unless we do things like hit the shallow middle (geno did this but Russ has not), utilize the TE ( we did this and caught GB completely off guard), or reset the balance with the run game - which we refuse to do.

    It's obvious we need to do the last 3. We will see if we can craft enough of a gamelan to accomplish anything.

    The Seahawks defense actually has been throwing out some exotic coverages the last few games. It isn't the cover 3 stuff we're used to seeing on defense. Lots of really interesting looks we've been throwing out lately. Aaron Rodgers was even fooled by some of the coverage switch ups we were running. We're showing one look pre-snap and running another when we drop back into coverage. This is a huge departure from what we normally have done under Pete.

    On offense we don't need to have the most modern, cutting edge offense but we do need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot with the way we approach the offense. We're not putting our guys in the best positions and we're tipping what we're going to do pre-snap. The best offenses in the NFL don't do that. This allows the defense to play with their ears pinned back. Waiting until the final moment to snap the ball is also something we need to stop. You're essentially giving the opposing defense a free jump on the ball.


    AR routinely snaps the ball with 1 second on the clock. Doesn't seem to hurt him.

    And our offense this year has gotten to the LOS pretty often with 12 to 15 seconds on the clock ... and then taken it to zero with a change of play.

    Aaron Rodgers also changes his tempo up quite a bit more than Seahawks offense, he also games defenses a lot more with his hard count, something Wilson has never been great at.
    Spin Doctor
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  • hoxrox wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    KinesProf wrote:
    seabowl wrote:
    FYI his issues started well prior to yesterday.


    Are you going to provide anything to support that assertion?





    always amazing how the facts almost always shows the anti-Wilson crowd is clueless and resort to making crap up/


    The only thing those stats prove is how boom or bust the offense has been.

    You want to cherry pick the first 5 games this year? How about the last 5 games last year?

    What you will find is inconsistency.


    Exactly. 2nd in the league in DVOA on the strength of long plays.

    Where do we rank in 3rd down conversions again?

    Or how about average drive duration for the offense?

    Or how about average number of plays per series for the offense.

    3 and outs?

    But yeah. The DVOA looks great. That and the Fantasy Football PPG for Russ, DK and Tyler. Off the charts!
    keasley45
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  • keasley45 wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:One problem with your original theory/post. If you guys are not taking into account wide reciever on the seahawks than blaming russ' decision making is useless. How do you throw a ball with out any one open? Gee well just throw it out of bounds so you do get sacked. No. That is an option, but you try to make a play down until you cant. Otherwise, the b!@ch on this site would whine about 3 and outs where russ is constantly throwing the ball out. Anyone wonder why lockett and metcalf barely had any receptions? Then wonder why russ was just throwing the ball up for grabs? Maybe hoping someone can make a play. But they didnt. Yes russ sailed some balls. Missed swain on a diving td. Probably missed some open recievers here and there.

    I'm sick of this site constantly looking for someone to blame. Did russ play perfect...no. Hardly his fault completely. Team game guys. Stop making posts questioning peoples minds, spirit and decision making. Its gross. Its judgemental and I can gurantee no one does that to you. Cuz if they did...I wouldnt see any posts discussing others faults.


    True, GB's defense did a great job. So did ours covering their receivers. But AR's response wasn't throwing at triple covered receivers. I don't think most folks are faulting Russ for the wr's not being open. But you and others would have absolutely crucified Geno for making some of the decisions andnthrows that he did. The answer to constant pressure can be found in running the ball. It cant be found in short throws to the flat or behind the LOS or in not even attacking the area of the field the defense is leaving vulnerable.

    We played GB to a draw into the 4th. The difference was that AR made us pay for the success we were having early on while we just let GB keep pounding us. But all the cries will be about lack of protection. Teams will continue to sell out to rush the qb until we prove that we can make them change that approach.

    And sorry, but even on the drive in the 4th where we needed a score to close their 10 point lead... any score at all, the decision to just heave the ball up to Lockett was ill advised at best. But its EXACTLY the strategy he used to close out the Tennesee game in OT and then defended. In both instances, the game was still winnable, and instead of stringing together plays that could continue a drive, we chuck it up on the faith that our players will make a play.

    You can't sustain an offense or wins over a period of years in the NFL on faith and magic. That's what strategy is for. And we have no discernable strategy other than to toss it to No 14 or No 16, close your eyes and hope. The lone caveat last night was finally getting Everett and Dissly involved... to pretty significant success. And then, like with the running game, we leave it ... and just heave it.


    Dude look back at play where he threw it up to lockett near endzone that Amos almost picked off. Amos was playing nearer to middle deep route and was nearly the only one back. Was able to read wilson and get over to lockett in time. Wasnt a bad choice or throw as much as it was just a dam good play by amos.
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  • keasley45 wrote:
    hoxrox wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    KinesProf wrote:
    Are you going to provide anything to support that assertion?





    always amazing how the facts almost always shows the anti-Wilson crowd is clueless and resort to making crap up/


    The only thing those stats prove is how boom or bust the offense has been.

    You want to cherry pick the first 5 games this year? How about the last 5 games last year?

    What you will find is inconsistency.


    Exactly. 2nd in the league in DVOA on the strength of long plays.

    Where do we rank in 3rd down conversions again?

    Or how about average drive duration for the offense?

    Or how about average number of plays per series for the offense.

    3 and outs?

    But yeah. The DVOA looks great. That and the Fantasy Football PPG for Russ, DK and Tyler. Off the charts!
    .

    Agree and I said earlier;

    I get it but from mid season on last year this O and his play have dropped off dramatically. He has been slow, indecisive, and looks for the splash play too often.

    This O needs DRIVES not quick outs.

    Again I get the numbers may look good but stats don't win games.
    seabowl
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  • hoxrox wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    KinesProf wrote:
    seabowl wrote:
    FYI his issues started well prior to yesterday.


    Are you going to provide anything to support that assertion?





    always amazing how the facts almost always shows the anti-Wilson crowd is clueless and resort to making crap up/


    The only thing those stats prove is how boom or bust the offense has been.

    You want to cherry pick the first 5 games this year? How about the last 5 games last year?

    What you will find is inconsistency.


    He picked the 5 games because that's all Wilson played this year at that point. Not cherry picking.
    John63
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  • [quote="

    Dude look back at play where he threw it up to lockett near endzone that Amos almost picked off. Amos was playing nearer to middle deep route ...[/quote]

    Are you talking about the 4th qtr play where we were driving and had a chance to score?

    Just watched it on all 22. It was a terrible play. Lockett had a guy trailing and over the top.. Gb had better position on the ball than we did AND RUSSEL HAD SWAIN OPEN TO HIS LEFT. WIDE OPEN for at least 6 or 7 yards.

    On the same drive, 3 plays prior, he had Everett open right in front of him and chose to scramble for a modest gain.

    Same series just before that play, he had Everett running wide open across the field right to left for what would have been a huge gain. Easy pass.

    I feel like I should do a .net zoom call so everyone can see the nonsense some here are trying to defend. There's no hate here.

    And the defense that wr x wasn't his primary read is the biggest bunch of BS I've ever heard. The great QBs in this league get the ball to the one place a defender isn't over and over and over again.

    And the ' he chucks it up because nobody is open' defenae is just completely and utterly wrong.
    keasley45
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  • Well, you better hope that Wilson gets better.

    Because he is one of the few things worth anything on this team.

    Pete is essentially worthless. He has been a liability for some time.

    So complain all you want but the only hope of winning is in Wilson's hands.

    Pete has been done, used, and washed for a while. Wilson carried him for years.

    Now Wilson needs some help and Pete just shovels harder into his garbage festival of dinosaur football.

    Without Wilson we got nada, so we should all hope this is more due to rust, lack of time, and not being 100% due to injury.
    TwistedHusky
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:Well, you better hope that Wilson gets better.

    Because he is one of the few things worth anything on this team.

    Pete is essentially worthless. He has been a liability for some time.

    So complain all you want but the only hope of winning is in Wilson's hands.

    Pete has been done, used, and washed for a while. Wilson carried him for years.

    Now Wilson needs some help and Pete just shovels harder into his garbage festival of dinosaur football.

    Without Wilson we got nada, so we should all hope this is more due to rust, lack of time, and not being 100% due to injury.


    What universe is this? Pete, the scapegoat for all things wrong with the team has literally just put together the only element of this team that's now worth anything. It wasnt great to start and you can fault him for not making some changes sooner, you also cant overstate the importance of T Brown on defense. The defense is whats been keeping us in games for a few weeks now.

    Russel has been solved since the first Arizona game last year.

    If anything, Pete should catch hell for allowing a 11-40 run to pass ration and not blasting 20 for 40 and 2 absurdly bad picks. But that's also his problem for not coming down more forcefully on the BS circus that was this offseason and putting up with the same nonsense passing game every week.

    Bro, the below is the problem with this team.

    Image2021-11-15_10-29-19 by J_Otte, on Flickr
    Pivotal drive (the drive that Russ heaved the int on to Lockett. He has not one, not two, but three options on this play. And he has protection. Collins as the outlet, DK crossing shallow, Diss slightly deeper. Three choices and he leaves the pocket!!

    Image2021-11-15_10-26-58 by J_Otte, on Flickr

    Oh but wait... maybe he coudnt see them? or.. maybe they werent the 'primary'... well then you have Everett breaking wide open in front of him for the first and wide open room to run.

    But yeah. Waldron drew up a play with literally three wr open at any given point and it didnt work because Pete told Russ to not throw it..

    Would be happy to share more... i just stopped on a random play and grabbed a screenshot
    keasley45
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  • What was puzzling is the play calling. The GB DBs were playing back and were not allowing the long pass yet we kept trying. Our WRs were not getting separation or coming back to the ball. Russ continued to look for someone long instead of going for quick outs and up the middle to the RBs, TEs etc. Russ continues to hold the ball way to long. From here on out he is going to be rushed like crazy. If you watched Rodgers he got rid of the ball very fast and quickly identified the open receiver. Was throwing long Pete's or his OC's plan. I do not know. Either way it is not working.
    BigBill1945
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:Well, you better hope that Wilson gets better.

    Because he is one of the few things worth anything on this team.

    Pete is essentially worthless. He has been a liability for some time.

    So complain all you want but the only hope of winning is in Wilson's hands.

    Pete has been done, used, and washed for a while. Wilson carried him for years.

    Now Wilson needs some help and Pete just shovels harder into his garbage festival of dinosaur football.

    Without Wilson we got nada, so we should all hope this is more due to rust, lack of time, and not being 100% due to injury.



    all true and PC said it himself
    John63
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:Well, you better hope that Wilson gets better.

    Because he is one of the few things worth anything on this team.

    Pete is essentially worthless. He has been a liability for some time.

    So complain all you want but the only hope of winning is in Wilson's hands.

    Pete has been done, used, and washed for a while. Wilson carried him for years.

    Now Wilson needs some help and Pete just shovels harder into his garbage festival of dinosaur football.

    Without Wilson we got nada, so we should all hope this is more due to rust, lack of time, and not being 100% due to injury.

    The problem is Russell doesn't want the kind of help he needs. More weapons and more throws is what he wants.That doesn't fix his issues. He NEEDS a strong running game to compliment his strength of hitting the PA deep shots. This, however means a good game stats wise for him would 225-250 yds, 2 TDs. That doesn't fit his image of himself.
    OrangeGravy
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  • The delusion is real, or maybe everybody who thinks Russ is some kind of victim just doesnt take the time to look at the plays after the fact, because i think somebody claimed that this was Russ chucking it up because his WRs cant get open...

    same drive as the images above
    Image2021-11-15_11-08-50 by J_Otte, on Flickr

    Swain coming open for an easy 8 to 12 yard pickup. nobody else open, especially not Lockett

    Image2021-11-15_11-08-37 by J_Otte, on Flickr

    Swain now obviously breaking open and Russ looking his way. no way he throws to Lockett as the over the top Safety is running his pattern with him and the trailing safety is in pursuit.

    Image2021-11-15_11-08-11 by J_Otte, on Flickr

    THIS IS THE MOMENT RUSS THROWS THE BALL - Wide open WR open for a first down or minimum 8 yard gain and he chucks it up when the safety is deeper than Lockett is. This is complete BS and NOT the kind of play you force when you have more than enough time on the clock to come back, need at least a FG to keep pressure on GB, have protection, and an option open. Its not the kind of play a $30+ million player misses. And he missed many. I can do this all day. And it doesnt look any different in full speed.
    keasley45
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  • BigBill1945 wrote:What was puzzling is the play calling. The GB DBs were playing back and were not allowing the long pass yet we kept trying. Our WRs were not getting separation or coming back to the ball. Russ continued to look for someone long instead of going for quick outs and up the middle to the RBs, TEs etc. Russ continues to hold the ball way to long. From here on out he is going to be rushed like crazy. If you watched Rodgers he got rid of the ball very fast and quickly identified the open receiver. Was throwing long Pete's or his OC's plan. I do not know. Either way it is not working.


    Wilson through 40 passes However 30 were short. so that means only 10 were long, per ESPN play-by-play. The GB defense was fine giving up the short pass, and not allowing Yac Which we got very little of. They were not going to give up the big play. The only time he looked mostly long was during the least 2 drives where well it was do or die.

    The problem for me is the lack of adjustment to this as it was obvious in the 1st qtr. Now I cant say our new OC is the issue. first year. I can say PCs teams have always failed dot adjust on both sides of the ball. so to me its PC.

    were are the rub routes, why wasn't Wilson bootlegging more, etc etc the same stuff we wonder about after every game. Were was the Rams type of motion stuff other than 1 or 2 drives I saw little of it.

    Since some on here like to make stuff up like Wilson forced his way to play and that's why we lost, no evidence of that. or we could not take snaps from under center, again the video clearly shows PC saying he had no problems doing it during practice or warmups but they decided to not take chances. How about this one, PC knew we had no chance to win so put Wilson out there figuring well if we win great if not it's all Wilson's fault.

    Now, do I really believe it? mostly, no about 95% no, but.
    John63
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  • keasley45 wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Well, you better hope that Wilson gets better.

    Because he is one of the few things worth anything on this team.

    Pete is essentially worthless. He has been a liability for some time.

    So complain all you want but the only hope of winning is in Wilson's hands.

    Pete has been done, used, and washed for a while. Wilson carried him for years.

    Now Wilson needs some help and Pete just shovels harder into his garbage festival of dinosaur football.

    Without Wilson we got nada, so we should all hope this is more due to rust, lack of time, and not being 100% due to injury.


    What universe is this? Pete, the scapegoat for all things wrong with the team has literally just put together the only element of this team that's now worth anything. It wasnt great to start and you can fault him for not making some changes sooner, you also cant overstate the importance of T Brown on defense. The defense is whats been keeping us in games for a few weeks now.

    Russel has been solved since the first Arizona game last year.

    If anything, Pete should catch hell for allowing a 11-40 run to pass ration and not blasting 20 for 40 and 2 absurdly bad picks. But that's also his problem for not coming down more forcefully on the BS circus that was this offseason and putting up with the same nonsense passing game every week.

    Bro, the below is the problem with this team.

    Image2021-11-15_10-29-19 by J_Otte, on Flickr
    Pivotal drive (the drive that Russ heaved the int on to Lockett. He has not one, not two, but three options on this play. And he has protection. Collins as the outlet, DK crossing shallow, Diss slightly deeper. Three choices and he leaves the pocket!!

    Image2021-11-15_10-26-58 by J_Otte, on Flickr

    Oh but wait... maybe he coudnt see them? or.. maybe they werent the 'primary'... well then you have Everett breaking wide open in front of him for the first and wide open room to run.

    But yeah. Waldron drew up a play with literally three wr open at any given point and it didnt work because Pete told Russ to not throw it..

    Would be happy to share more... i just stopped on a random play and grabbed a screenshot

    I really wish there was an option to watch the all22 views vs the broadcast view. It would dispell a lot of myths and false narratives. Alas, with the broadcast view you get assumptions and stats with zero context.

    Russell has been in the league for 10 years. He isn't changing to any significant degree until his arm forces him too. The offensive structure when we had Lynch was and still is the best situation for him to win big games and post season games. He is not good enough to win in the post season doing he and everyone else thinks he should be doing. Manning barely got it done 1 time at his peak. It took an Elway type post prime run with a top D to get number 2. The list of QBs that have the combination of talent and command of the position in all aspects to a level capable of winning a SB with the team built around them is incredibly small. To date only Brady has more than 1 doing that and his teams were structured in all different types of ways. Thinking Russell can do that is pure fantasy.

    What would Russell be if the team somehow got beat in those 2 nfc championship games instead of going 1-1 8n those SBs? Does he even get a shot to have the team built around him? Does the praise come like it did early on, even though it took years for a lot media to jump on his train? Does he get the volume increase that he's got post LOB to bump his numbers up to equal the other star QBs on a yearly basis? Is he considered a HOFer by without those SBs?
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