Why are the Hawks struggling?

LTH · Nov 16, 2021

The Hawks struggling because everything is not working together. The run game complements the passing game, the D complements the O... and visa versa.

In Carrolls style of O, the run game needs to dominate the other team during certain stretches' of the game. Its not that the scheme is bad.... the scheme is fine, the problem is the Hawks don't have a back that can handle the pounding that it takes to complement the passing game...

After Lynch left, that hole was filled with Carson and he just can't stay healthy...he is a good back and he does his job when he is playing but he just can't stay healthy...This is evident in the past several years..

look at last year, the Hawks O was doing fine until Carson got hurt. Then they started to slide and Russ was NOT as effective because he didn't have the run game... when Carson came back and Pete went back to the run game things got better and they started winning again.

When the run game isn't happening or isn't dominate for the stretches that it needs to be we see other teams drop two safety's deep and thats when Russ struggles...throwing into double coverage when he should just take the check down over the middle or what ever the D is giving him... Its a patience thing...it's definitely a coaching thing...

The problem this year is they can't seem to get all the components of the team working at the same time. The first part of the season the D had issues it took several games to work that out but the O wasn't working either as Carson got hurt early on ... then Russ got hurt. so nothing was really working.. it took Geno a couple of games to get his feet underneath him... it was clear Geno was getting better every game and the O started to play better...

Now the D is starting to play well and the O is starting to work things out and gain some continuity when Russ comes back. Now things change again because Russ wants to play his game, only the run game isn't quite there...they need to dominate in the run game at times during the game to get those safety's to come up to support the run...either that or Russ has to be patient and take what the D gives him until the D adjusts and for some reason he was unwilling to do that in this last game...

So they are close to being good they just need to get every thing working at the same time... The D is there and special teams is there, it's now time to get the O to perform.. the season depends on if Russ is going to make that adjustment... or how long is it going to take for Russ to make that adjustment because they are running out of time... they need to get Carson back and establish the run game that works together with the passing game that's the way it works in Carrols philosophy...

So its not about the Scheme and its not Carroll screwing things up its about Player execution in all phases of the game working at the same time and working together to complement each other....

LTH

had2bhawk · Nov 16, 2021

Passing can't get to receivers
Runs can't get through line of scrimmage
Defense gets gassed

Maybe Solari isn't taking a active enough roll,

John63 · Nov 16, 2021

The simple solution stop trying to run the same old offense and let them run what was supposed to be the hew offense for a whole game. every time we have done it prior to Wilson getting hurt it worked but the problem is they only did it for a half of football. Once again the hero ball thing is false as 60-70% of his passes have been short, the problem is little to no yac. And you have to take some shots.

JustTheTip · Nov 16, 2021

Isn't making sure the different aspects of the team work well together the responsibility of the head coach?

Thanks for pointing out yet another reason it is time to move on from Pete.

LTH · Nov 16, 2021

John63":2dmeoe7q said:
The simple solution stop trying to run the same old offense and let them run what was supposed to be the hew offense for a whole game. every time we have done it prior to Wilson getting hurt it worked but the problem is they only did it for a half of football. Once again the hero ball thing is false as 60-70% of his passes have been short, the problem is little to no yac. And you have to take some shots.

I don't see your reasoning... If you look back at some of Keasley45 posts he explains this in perfect detail...

They are running a balanced attack go back and look at the Run pass ratio...the problem is you have to run the ball to get the safety's to come support the run... if you don't then Russ can't take a shot down field unless he is throwing into double coverage. Its either run the ball or take what the D gives you in the passing game... those are the options if Russ keeps throwing into double coverage he is going to lead the NFL in INT's...

Its not like Carroll is running the O.. he turned it over to Russ and Waldron which IMO is a HUGE mistake...Its not like the Hawks are running the ball 40 times a game its pretty much 25 run 27 pass something like that.. the bigger problem is 3rd down conversion and TOP... and you say that60-to 70 % of his passes are short fine I have no argue ment with that my argument is when does he throw the short pass as to when he goes for the big play... when your on a game winning drive and there are two safety's high don't throw into double coverage take the check down and move the chains...

LTH

LTH · Nov 16, 2021

JustTheTip":1oj1fs8u said:
Isn't making sure the different aspects of the team work well together the responsibility of the head coach?

Thanks for pointing out yet another reason it is time to move on from Pete.

You think Pete Carroll controls the adversity the team faces? No he doesn't his role is to work through the adversity and that's what he is doing..

LTH

TwistedHusky · Nov 16, 2021

Pete is old.

He had a system that worked. The OP illustrated it.

2 things:

1 - it does not match his personnel

2 - the NFL has made running that system much more difficult.

The problem is that he has half the pieces to run this system and half the pieces to run a completely different type of football. So technically this roster is not good at doing anything well, almost intrinsically.

If you have a system that only works for a specific group of players with narrowly defined skillsets, and few of those resources are on the team, many would be expensive to acquire, and you have valuable assets that do not match the above?

Well then you are screwed or you find someone that can either make what you have work, or quickly/cheaply adjust the roster to find something that makes your roster work to win.

Pete was a master roster builder and developer, so he could demand a roster that fit a very specific system. Because he could either build or grow it. He cannot do that anymore.

And his system is harder to build and execute now, when it works which is less often because of the changes in how game are called in the NFL.

Spin Doctor · Nov 16, 2021

This team is slow to adjust, period. How long did it take us to adjust the defense after we were on pace yet again to be one of the worst defenses in NFL history? We kept trotting out the same cover 3 scheme, we kept played base defense more than any team in the NFL, we kept players like Flowers for far too long. We put Jamal Adams in Diggs in bad positions. It took an injury to Russell Wilson for us to get our act together on defense. We're now approaching defense much differently than we have previously. Lots of safety help for our corners over the top, disguised coverages and mixing it up more between zone and man. Where was this earlier in the season?

On offense our line is struggling and Wilson isn't getting rid of the ball quick enough. Geno put up some valiant efforts but couldn't put teams away, neither could Wilson this season though. Offensive play calling has also been suspect this season. Running the ball 9 times in a row at one point is incredibly stupid. Playing a QB with a bad hand that can't take snaps under center was also a bad decision. What is worse is making us pass 40 times and run just 11 in GREENBAY BELOW FREEZING WITH SNOW TOWARDS THE LATER HALF OF THE GAME.

There has been a lot of bad decision making from our coaches this season and it's all piling on top of each other. The difference here is Wilson hasn't had that same magic and he's not playing up to his standards. Geno Smith, his backup is JAG. We're seeing similar problems crop up, but without the Wilson magic we've all come to expect in previous seasons. A sobering fact is his last 17 games look like a statline from Baker Mayfield.

xray · Nov 16, 2021

Fans over analyzing the "why" . They struggle against better teams with better players and better coaching . That's why .

Jville · Nov 16, 2021

LTH":1hai4d12 said:
John63":1hai4d12 said:

The simple solution stop trying to run the same old offense and let them run what was supposed to be the hew offense for a whole game. every time we have done it prior to Wilson getting hurt it worked but the problem is they only did it for a half of football. Once again the hero ball thing is false as 60-70% of his passes have been short, the problem is little to no yac. And you have to take some shots.

Click to expand...

I don't see your reasoning... If you look back at some of Keasley45 posts he explains this in perfect detail...

They are running a balanced attack go back and look at the Run pass ratio...the problem is you have to run the ball to get the safety's to come support the run... if you don't then Russ can't take a shot down field unless he is throwing into double coverage. Its either run the ball or take what the D gives you in the passing game... those are the options if Russ keeps throwing into double coverage he is going to lead the NFL in INT's...

Its not like Carroll is running the O.. he turned it over to Russ and Waldron which IMO is a HUGE mistake...Its not like the Hawks are running the ball 40 times a game its pretty much 25 run 27 pass something like that.. the bigger problem is 3rd down conversion and TOP... and you say that60-to 70 % of his passes are short fine I have no argue ment with that my argument is when does he throw the short pass as to when he goes for the big play... when your on a game winning drive and there are two safety's high don't throw into double coverage take the check down and move the chains...

LTH

The Packer game saw 40 pass attempts verses only 16 carries of which 5 were by our hero. So ....... it could be said that the Packer game revisited the "Let Russ Cook" offense ..... and got shut out for the first time.

pittpnthrs · Nov 16, 2021

Why are they struggling? Hmmmm, lets see-

The Oline is weak as usual
The defense is average at best
Injuries
Lack of a running game
Dont use the TEs nearly enough
Russ needs to be better
Myers has been missing more than usual
Coaching has been horrendous as usual

Am I missing anything?

Jville · Nov 16, 2021

It used to be that the team found ways to win. Especially in the 4th quarter. That seems to have become a bye gone characteristic.

Lately players seem to be finding ways to lose.

toffee · Nov 16, 2021

Jville":3ntjg4ii said:
LTH":3ntjg4ii said:

John63":3ntjg4ii said:

The simple solution stop trying to run the same old offense and let them run what was supposed to be the hew offense for a whole game. every time we have done it prior to Wilson getting hurt it worked but the problem is they only did it for a half of football. Once again the hero ball thing is false as 60-70% of his passes have been short, the problem is little to no yac. And you have to take some shots.

Click to expand...

I don't see your reasoning... If you look back at some of Keasley45 posts he explains this in perfect detail...

They are running a balanced attack go back and look at the Run pass ratio...the problem is you have to run the ball to get the safety's to come support the run... if you don't then Russ can't take a shot down field unless he is throwing into double coverage. Its either run the ball or take what the D gives you in the passing game... those are the options if Russ keeps throwing into double coverage he is going to lead the NFL in INT's...

Its not like Carroll is running the O.. he turned it over to Russ and Waldron which IMO is a HUGE mistake...Its not like the Hawks are running the ball 40 times a game its pretty much 25 run 27 pass something like that.. the bigger problem is 3rd down conversion and TOP... and you say that60-to 70 % of his passes are short fine I have no argue ment with that my argument is when does he throw the short pass as to when he goes for the big play... when your on a game winning drive and there are two safety's high don't throw into double coverage take the check down and move the chains...

LTH

Click to expand...

The Packer game saw 40 pass attempts verses only 16 carries of which 5 were by our hero. So ....... it could be said that the Packer game revisited the "Let Russ Cook" offense ..... and got shut out for the first time.

Nailed it.

This is what happened when you HOF QB told his HC which OC to hire, then told the hired OC what plays he wants, wow, change the plays that wouldn't highlight his super human prowess at LOS. Being a Russell Wilson homer, I do believe that he is super human being. When the inmate ran the asylum, you shall have something strange like a QB with injured finger made 40 pass attempts, with only 16 run, of which 5 by the said HOF QB with finger issue.

Pete needs to be fire, for his failure to trade Russ last off season, and hiring an OC who NEVER had the sole responsibility to design plays, game plan, and call plays, at any level, no HS, no college, no nfl.

John63 · Nov 16, 2021

pittpnthrs":384ues7b said:
Why are they struggling? Hmmmm, lets see-

The Oline is weak as usual
The defense is average at best
Injuries
Lack of a running game
Dont use the TEs nearly enough
Russ needs to be better
Myers has been missing more than usual
Coaching has been horrendous as usual

Am I missing anything?

Only lack of discipline which includes stupid penalties like throwing shoes etc

Other than that you got it all.

LTH · Nov 16, 2021

John63":1z9uft9t said:
pittpnthrs":1z9uft9t said:

Why are they struggling? Hmmmm, lets see-

The Oline is weak as usual
The defense is average at best
Injuries
Lack of a running game
Dont use the TEs nearly enough
Russ needs to be better
Myers has been missing more than usual
Coaching has been horrendous as usual

Am I missing anything?

Click to expand...

Only lack of discipline which includes stupid penalties like throwing shoes etc

Other than that you got it all.

LTH · Nov 16, 2021

well fire Pete then...After that you have new new coach to bag on and you can start all over again...clearly you MISSED everyone of my points and not a single reasonable response to wghat I was talking about...

LTH

toffee · Nov 16, 2021

LTH":3siyix0i said:
The Hawks struggling because everything is not working together. The run game complements the passing game, the D complements the O... and visa versa.

In Carrolls style of O, the run game needs to dominate the other team during certain stretches' of the game. Its not that the scheme is bad.... the scheme is fine, the problem is the Hawks don't have a back that can handle the pounding that it takes to complement the passing game...

After Lynch left, that hole was filled with Carson and he just can't stay healthy...he is a good back and he does his job when he is playing but he just can't stay healthy...This is evident in the past several years..

look at last year, the Hawks O was doing fine until Carson got hurt. Then they started to slide and Russ was NOT as effective because he didn't have the run game... when Carson came back and Pete went back to the run game things got better and they started winning again.

When the run game isn't happening or isn't dominate for the stretches that it needs to be we see other teams drop two safety's deep and thats when Russ struggles...throwing into double coverage when he should just take the check down over the middle or what ever the D is giving him... Its a patience thing...it's definitely a coaching thing...

The problem this year is they can't seem to get all the components of the team working at the same time. The first part of the season the D had issues it took several games to work that out but the O wasn't working either as Carson got hurt early on ... then Russ got hurt. so nothing was really working.. it took Geno a couple of games to get his feet underneath him... it was clear Geno was getting better every game and the O started to play better...

Now the D is starting to play well and the O is starting to work things out and gain some continuity when Russ comes back. Now things change again because Russ wants to play his game, only the run game isn't quite there...they need to dominate in the run game at times during the game to get those safety's to come up to support the run...either that or Russ has to be patient and take what the D gives him until the D adjusts and for some reason he was unwilling to do that in this last game...

So they are close to being good they just need to get every thing working at the same time... The D is there and special teams is there, it's now time to get the O to perform.. the season depends on if Russ is going to make that adjustment... or how long is it going to take for Russ to make that adjustment because they are running out of time... they need to get Carson back and establish the run game that works together with the passing game that's the way it works in Carrols philosophy...

So its not about the Scheme and its not Carroll screwing things up its about Player execution in all phases of the game working at the same time and working together to complement each other....

LTH

The sun will come out earlier, the birds will sing louder, but only if we fire ole Pete and just let Russ Cook. After Russ cooked the second course, Jody better get it and sell the team to Russ as main course.

justafan · Nov 16, 2021

We played and lost to 5 pretty good teams with at least as much talent as we have. They all have Super Bowl quality coaching. Sometimes the other team is just better on that day.
Wilson and Carson have been the heart and soul of the offense, its been some tough breaks but they happen to all teams.
Its not like we got physically pounded and dominated on national television by a lesser team.

Coveryourholes · Nov 16, 2021

LTH":259u4wxb said:
well fire Pete then...After that you have new new coach to bag on and you can start all over again...clearly you MISSED everyone of my points and not a single reasonable response to wghat I was talking about...

LTH

You’re fighting the good fight. Unfortunately, you are fighting against those who have created a narrative that their echo chambers reverberate in their ears, minds, and hearts. There is no clear thought observable or not that you can present to dissuade these people from the narrative they have collectively built.

There are plenty of reasons for each season’s successes and failures - keep sharing your points though expect more of the same responses from the predestined scripts written and signed long before the season started, especially as your many valid points continue to be twisted or more likely ignored.

Thank you for your rational thoughts.

John63 · Nov 16, 2021

JustTheTip":20rje110 said:
Isn't making sure the different aspects of the team work well together the responsibility of the head coach?

Thanks for pointing out yet another reason it is time to move on from Pete.

This

Why are the Hawks struggling?

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

Moderator

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Member

Well-known member

Similar threads