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  • Took a lot of crap from a lot of people on here for a lotta years. Bit my lip knowing eventually everything I've been saying for years would be apparent to everyone. DO YOU HEAR ME NOW!!>!>!>

    #3 never mastered the mental part of playing quarterback, which was always going to be needed when his legs couldn't create magic anymore. Now his ego prevents us from running, which ironically is the one thing that would help him most.

    We've been seeing 2-deep almost exclusively for a year now. And have we executed even simple cover-2 concepts? At all? Hmmmm, why not? 3 coordinators now. Same results.

    Who is gonna line up first? Fade? Seymour? Soulfish? All a y'all can see me.
    Tical21
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  • I love a fan that gloats about predicting gloomy days…congratulations on being the smartest
    Flyingsquad23
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  • Very simple, take away the keys to the Ferrari and give Wilson the keys to the Pinto, no more audible except specific ones in obvious situations.

    Run the play called and hit the routes called.

    Pete fix your defense leave the offense alone.

    Pete go back to what you did well, adjust to the players strengths rather then your system, you did it early here, do it now.

    Sounds so simple, not sure what gets in the way of this other then fear of Wilson leaving, well losing won't keep him here either. Maybe he will learn something and embrace it with wins? Or he checks out and we'll have a high cost bench player for a year or Trade.

    Doesn't matter, we will not go anywhere with the present mentality and culture in play.

    At least changing now we will know how Wilson will fit with hard coaching which is what the next guy will have to do anyway.
    chris98251
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  • Flyingsquad23 wrote:I love a fan that gloats about predicting gloomy days…congratulations on being the smartest



    Hey he had to wait 9+ years and an Injury to say it. And as before when Wilson has a bad game or 2 he will disappear when he gets back to his usual HOF self. It's called trolling qe have alot of them.
    Last edited by John63 on Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    John63
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  • Not sure I agree until I see Wilson in another system.

    What I do know is that Wilson DID all these things earlier in his career. He is not incapable.

    But his great strength is throwing on the run accurately.

    That we choose not leverage it is on us.

    That said, I've basically been predicting this slow-motion car crash since the SB loss.

    What is the point of being right?

    Wilson did just fine for years, that wasn't the problem.

    Even though he is having issues this year, that is not an indictment of his ability or acumen given his track record of success.
    TwistedHusky
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:Not sure I agree until I see Wilson in another system.

    What I do know is that Wilson DID all these things earlier in his career. He is not incapable.

    But his great strength is throwing on the run accurately.

    That we choose not leverage it is on us.

    That said, I've basically been predicting this slow-motion car crash since the SB loss.

    What is the point of being right?

    Wilson did just fine for years, that wasn't the problem.

    Even though he is having issues this year, that is not an indictment of his ability or acumen given his track record of success.


    He also was much more restricted a large portion of those years and Pete used his abilities in the 4th and the rest of the time it was eat clock with the run and mostly short passing game using a defense to control what the other team wanted to do, dictating is a better word.

    Now we have Russell with all the tools he needs except a all pro line, he has decent maybe not great RB's, exceptional WR's a good group of TE's yet we struggle. Three coordinators, we started seeing trouble with the end of Bevells time here, Schotty had a success rate early but then we went back to what we see today and at the end of Bevells time, Waldron comes in and we see a completely different offense with the Colts and never again till Geno got in and even then it wasn't long before we drifted away from it even when he was playing. But not completely ignore it, Geno hit guys mid field, we didn't support him with a run game as well.
    chris98251
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:Not sure I agree until I see Wilson in another system.

    What I do know is that Wilson DID all these things earlier in his career. He is not incapable.

    But his great strength is throwing on the run accurately.

    That we choose not leverage it is on us.

    That said, I've basically been predicting this slow-motion car crash since the SB loss.

    What is the point of being right?

    Wilson did just fine for years, that wasn't the problem.

    Even though he is having issues this year, that is not an indictment of his ability or acumen given his track record of success.



    This^^^^
    John63
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Not sure I agree until I see Wilson in another system.

    What I do know is that Wilson DID all these things earlier in his career. He is not incapable.

    But his great strength is throwing on the run accurately.

    That we choose not leverage it is on us.

    That said, I've basically been predicting this slow-motion car crash since the SB loss.

    What is the point of being right?

    Wilson did just fine for years, that wasn't the problem.

    Even though he is having issues this year, that is not an indictment of his ability or acumen given his track record of success.


    He also was much more restricted a large portion of those years and Pete used his abilities in the 4th and the rest of the time it was eat clock with the run and mostly short passing game using a defense to control what the other team wanted to do, dictating is a better word.

    Now we have Russell with all the tools he needs except a all pro line, he has decent maybe not great RB's, exceptional WR's a good group of TE's yet we struggle. Three coordinators, we started seeing trouble with the end of Bevells time here, Schotty had a success rate early but then we went back to what we see today and at the end of Bevells time, Waldron comes in and we see a completely different offense with the Colts and never again till Geno got in and even then it wasn't long before we drifted away from it even when he was playing. But not completely ignore it, Geno hit guys mid field, we didn't support him with a run game as well.

    The big disconnect offensively is that Russell needs an offense thats run heavy. Everyone in the building knows this except Russell. The reason last season started off so hot was DCs started out game planning against Carson and Seattle's 'reputation ' of being run first, even though we havent been that for a while. Once we showed heavy pass tendencies, everyone stopped respecting the run completely because we proved that even it worked, we wouldn't stick with it. All of Russell's successes have come on PA or broken plays. The PA corner route to Lockett is the fallback. Teams pretty much take that awY anymore and Russell doesn't shake free as frequently now. That offense is like a 2 1/2 legged dog out there now
    OrangeGravy
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  • This was gonna happen. I’m glad! On the fence is worse. Making the playoffs but without a real shot to win it all means you’re stuck in neutral. Can’t get high draft picks to bolster the future but can’t truly pull the rip cord yet and change the philosophy and blow up the core so boom. Locked in spiral of mediocre survival year after year. Well the doldrums are far more brutal. Your boat won’t sink in the calm waters so it’s hard to know what to do. Now the winds picked up and blew the boat over but at least it’s obvious now that the boat isn’t built right. Falling is the first step to getting back up again. Not this season but maybe it will bring meaningful change we ALL so desperately want to see. Enjoy the ride!
    3-2-16-4-6
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  • Another system? You're aware this is our third system in the past five years, and all have been very diverse, yeah? Bevell was a WCO, Schotty was power run, Waldron a bit more misdirection, but all quite different systems.

    He DID NOT do these things earlier in his career. I've been waiting and waiting for him to execute core concepts his whole career, which I've written about dozens and dozens of times here over his career.

    His strength WAS throwing on the run accurately. He no longer has the freakish athleticism that was once his hallmark, so we're stuck with the version that doesn't know how to execute against 2-deep zone coverages, and can't extend the plays long enough for these zones to collapse.

    No matter what system you run, against a 2-deep zone, it eventually is going to come down to executing core 2-deep zone concepts. These include but are not limited to: flood/smash (we can't execute this because Russ refuses to hit the corner route over a rolled corner), dagger (this is literally wide open multiple times every game but Russ refuses to throw it because he is scared of the LB), some kind of levels concept (which we can't use because Russ can't see).

    When there is a 2-deep zone, this suggests you'll have a light box to run against. Most quarterbacks will just check to a run. But Russell refuses to do so. Hello, ego. So, lately, we've been looking for our deep concepts, which usually aren't there or Russ forces anyways, or Russ tries to buy time until something comes open, which he isn't great at.

    So if you're Waldron, what do you do? Bottom line, we can't do anything until Russell starts checking to run. But he thinks he's Mahomes, so that won't happen. Teams have adjusted to Russell, and solved him. Instead of evolving as a player, he's decided instead to try to double-down and try to will his stuff to work. Week after week. Just banging that square peg into the round hole. Over, and over, and over again.
    Tical21
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  • I appreciate the gloat, but you'll need a much bigger sample size. I'll never understand how people jump to conclusions. Imagine sitting there watching the games, season after season with this kind of confirmation bias, as Wilson is stacking probowls & wins year after year, waiting… biding your time for that "Aha! See I told you so!" moment.

    Problem. Elite QBs go through bad streches in their careers, it happens. Wilson, incredibly has been one of the few to avoid it for the most part. Rodgers was playing like Alex Smith for the better part of 3 years in his mid 30's. It took ousting Mike McCarthy and bringing in a new coach, and he actually got worse. Then in year 2 with that same new coach he popped and won another MVP.

    Brady's last year in New England, people called him done. Mahomes has been in a funk dating back to last year. But unlike Pete, Andy Reed doesn't shut the offense down and turtle up, he stays aggressive and continues to battle through it. Because he understands the bigger picture, and the rewards that will come when he finally breaks through. Pete would handle Mahomes the opposite. Shut everything down, play the field position game, and hope you can win it in the 4th.

    Pete has impeded Russell Wilson's development over the course of his career. But even with that, stack up Wilson's numbers over the last 50 games against anyone. He is better statistically or right there with anyone you want to name. While doing it behind lower ranked O-Lines, with an outdated defensive coach that has the reigns pulled tight for large stretches of the game, with mediocre to bad running games, and with only 1 or 2 viable receiving targets at most over that time.

    Pete's plan is to rope-a-dope the opponent for 3 quarters, and then bring in the Russell magic and try to win it in the 4th. Well, what happens when the QB is injured and not himself, or you're playing with a backup? Pete has no idea, he doesn't have any answers.

    But all of this is moot. Wilson clearly is done with Pete, they are getting a divorce. He wants to be with an offensive head coach. Whether that is here or elsewhere. Wilson will bounce back, eventually. Whether that is in a month, next season, or the season after. Pete will not, he is done. And the longer he stays the worse it's going to get.
    Fade
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  • OrangeGravy wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Not sure I agree until I see Wilson in another system.

    What I do know is that Wilson DID all these things earlier in his career. He is not incapable.

    But his great strength is throwing on the run accurately.

    That we choose not leverage it is on us.

    That said, I've basically been predicting this slow-motion car crash since the SB loss.

    What is the point of being right?

    Wilson did just fine for years, that wasn't the problem.

    Even though he is having issues this year, that is not an indictment of his ability or acumen given his track record of success.


    He also was much more restricted a large portion of those years and Pete used his abilities in the 4th and the rest of the time it was eat clock with the run and mostly short passing game using a defense to control what the other team wanted to do, dictating is a better word.

    Now we have Russell with all the tools he needs except a all pro line, he has decent maybe not great RB's, exceptional WR's a good group of TE's yet we struggle. Three coordinators, we started seeing trouble with the end of Bevells time here, Schotty had a success rate early but then we went back to what we see today and at the end of Bevells time, Waldron comes in and we see a completely different offense with the Colts and never again till Geno got in and even then it wasn't long before we drifted away from it even when he was playing. But not completely ignore it, Geno hit guys mid field, we didn't support him with a run game as well.

    The big disconnect offensively is that Russell needs an offense thats run heavy. Everyone in the building knows this except Russell. The reason last season started off so hot was DCs started out game planning against Carson and Seattle's 'reputation ' of being run first, even though we havent been that for a while. Once we showed heavy pass tendencies, everyone stopped respecting the run completely because we proved that even it worked, we wouldn't stick with it. All of Russell's successes have come on PA or broken plays. The PA corner route to Lockett is the fallback. Teams pretty much take that awY anymore and Russell doesn't shake free as frequently now. That offense is like a 2 1/2 legged dog out there now

    +1
    Tical21
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  • Fade wrote:I appreciate the gloat, but you'll need a much bigger sample size. I'll never understand how people jump to conclusions. Imagine sitting there watching the games, season after season with this kind of confirmation bias, as Wilson is stacking probowls & wins year after year, waiting… biding your time for that "Aha! See I told you so!" moment.

    Problem. Elite QBs go through bad streches in their careers, it happens. Wilson, incredibly has been one of the few to avoid it for the most part. Rodgers was playing like Alex Smith for the better part of 3 years in his mid 30's. It took ousting Mike McCarthy and bringing in a new coach, and he actually got worse. Then in year 2 with that same new coach he popped and won another MVP.

    Brady's last year in New England, people called him done. Mahomes has been in a funk dating back to last year. But unlike Pete, Andy Reed doesn't shut the offense down and turtle up, he stays aggressive and continues to battle through it. Because he understands the bigger picture, and the rewards that will come when he finally breaks through. Pete would handle Mahomes the opposite. Shut everything down, play the field position game, and hope you can win it in the 4th.

    Pete has impeded Russell Wilson's development over the course of his career. But even with that, stack up Wilson's numbers over the last 50 games against anyone. He is better statistically or right there with anyone you want to name. While doing it behind lower ranked O-Lines, with an outdated defensive coach that has the reigns pulled tight for large stretches of the game, with mediocre to bad running games, and with only 1 or 2 viable receiving targets at most over that time.

    Pete's plan is to rope-a-dope the opponent for 3 quarters, and then bring in the Russell magic and try to win it in the 4th. Well, what happens when the QB is injured and not himself, or you're playing with a backup? Pete has no idea, he doesn't have any answers.

    But all of this is moot. Wilson clearly is done with Pete, they are getting a divorce. He wants to be with an offensive head coach. Whether that is here or elsewhere. Wilson will bounce back, eventually. Whether that is in a month, next season, or the season after. Pete will not, he is done. And the longer he stays the worse it's going to get.

    Now this is just disingenuous. I've been telling you for years that the biggest reason for Russell's success was our insistence on running the football, which for the first 9 years of his career gave Russell single-high, simpler coverages. Coverages that allowed him to leverage his greatest strength, which is that he's the most accurate deep ball passer in the history of the game. Your failure was thinking this would translate if we decided to pass more, and pass into more 2-deep and disguised coverages. If we stop playing "Pete Ball" and just "Let Russ Cook".

    It doesn't work when the opposing team doesn't worry about the running game and instead takes away the deep ball. It just doesn't. See the ugly picks, trying to desperately push the ball down the field? They aren't scared of anything anymore besides getting beat over the top. These picks come because you can't execute core concepts properly, so you have to throw desperation passes instead. You really think Russell is going to re-invent himself and figure out how to execute at this point in his career? Bottom line, Russell Wilson is DONE being a successful quarterback in this league, unless he allows himself to play off of the running game again. Period. He's been solved.

    I've told you all this was going to happen. I told you all we didn't want to go to a pass-first offense because Russell doesn't execute like that. I told you all he wasn't Patrick Mahomes. Now that you're seeing it with your own eyes in a way that is impossible to hide from, you're still blaming Pete? Really? For doing what? You're on the wrong side of this one my friend, and you've been on the wrong side of it for a long time. And if you're unwilling to admit that after what we've seen for a year now, there's no point continuing this debate any further. You're just making stuff up and doubling down against all evidence at this point.
    Tical21
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  • Fade wrote:I appreciate the gloat, but you'll need a much bigger sample size. I'll never understand how people jump to conclusions. Imagine sitting there watching the games, season after season with this kind of confirmation bias, as Wilson is stacking probowls & wins year after year, waiting… biding your time for that "Aha! See I told you so!" moment.

    Problem. Elite QBs go through bad streches in their careers, it happens. Wilson, incredibly has been one of the few to avoid it for the most part. Rodgers was playing like Alex Smith for the better part of 3 years in his mid 30's. It took ousting Mike McCarthy and bringing in a new coach, and he actually got worse. Then in year 2 with that same new coach he popped and won another MVP.

    Brady's last year in New England, people called him done. Mahomes has been in a funk dating back to last year. But unlike Pete, Andy Reed doesn't shut the offense down and turtle up, he stays aggressive and continues to battle through it. Because he understands the bigger picture, and the rewards that will come when he finally breaks through. Pete would handle Mahomes the opposite. Shut everything down, play the field position game, and hope you can win it in the 4th.

    Pete has impeded Russell Wilson's development over the course of his career. But even with that, stack up Wilson's numbers over the last 50 games against anyone. He is better statistically or right there with anyone you want to name. While doing it behind lower ranked O-Lines, with an outdated defensive coach that has the reigns pulled tight for large stretches of the game, with mediocre to bad running games, and with only 1 or 2 viable receiving targets at most over that time.

    Pete's plan is to rope-a-dope the opponent for 3 quarters, and then bring in the Russell magic and try to win it in the 4th. Well, what happens when the QB is injured and not himself, or you're playing with a backup? Pete has no idea, he doesn't have any answers.

    But all of this is moot. Wilson clearly is done with Pete, they are getting a divorce. He wants to be with an offensive head coach. Whether that is here or elsewhere. Wilson will bounce back, eventually. Whether that is in a month, next season, or the season after. Pete will not, he is done. And the longer he stays the worse it's going to get.



    This^^^^^
    John63
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  • Tical21 wrote:Another system? You're aware this is our third system in the past five years, and all have been very diverse, yeah? Bevell was a WCO, Schotty was power run, Waldron a bit more misdirection, but all quite different systems..


    Nope. They all conform to Pete. They didn't change the offense when Schotty came, as confirmed by Pete.
    Waldron was de-nutted very quickly. Watch the week 1 Colts game and compare it to what it is now.

    Three different sock puppets, that add a little of the flavor over the top, but aren't allowed to cook the meal are not 3 different systems.

    Tical21 wrote:He DID NOT do these things earlier in his career. I've been waiting and waiting for him to execute core concepts his whole career, which I've written about dozens and dozens of times here over his career.


    He loves Sprint Right Option (anything rollout really.) Waggle. Mesh, (anything involving crossers really, including deep over.) Double Seam.

    Tical21 wrote:His strength WAS throwing on the run accurately. He no longer has the freakish athleticism that was once his hallmark, so we're stuck with the version that doesn't know how to execute against 2-deep zone coverages, and can't extend the plays long enough for these zones to collapse.


    It's still his strength. He is completing 85% of his passes at 13.9 YPA on playaction & rollouts before the AZ game. They went away from it for whatever reason, instead choosing to go back to the sitting duck offense behind one the worst pass blocking O-Lines in the NFL.

    Tical21 wrote:No matter what system you run, against a 2-deep zone, it eventually is going to come down to executing core 2-deep zone concepts. These include but are not limited to: flood/smash (we can't execute this because Russ refuses to hit the corner route over a rolled corner), dagger (this is literally wide open multiple times every game but Russ refuses to throw it because he is scared of the LB), some kind of levels concept (which we can't use because Russ can't see).


    You have to take the Drew Brees approach which is Seams and Screens. And build a top 5 offensive line, especially on the interior, to assist with your diminutive QBs sight-lines. Pete never got the memo. And generally how they are supposed to be built as told by Pete Carroll, but aren't, is to run the ball down their throat. Asking any offensive coach what is the best approach against a 2 high defense and it is to run them out of it.

    Tical21 wrote:When there is a 2-deep zone, this suggests you'll have a light box to run against. Most quarterbacks will just check to a run. But Russell refuses to do so. Hello, ego. So, lately, we've been looking for our deep concepts, which usually aren't there or Russ forces anyways, or Russ tries to buy time until something comes open, which he isn't great at.
    He checks to runs all of the time against 2 High. But they don't have the backs or the O-Line to consistently punish teams for cheating. They get behind the sticks and they have no choice but to throw.

    Tical21 wrote:So if you're Waldron, what do you do? Bottom line, we can't do anything until Russell starts checking to run. But he thinks he's Mahomes, so that won't happen. Teams have adjusted to Russell, and solved him. Instead of evolving as a player, he's decided instead to try to double-down and try to will his stuff to work. Week after week. Just banging that square peg into the round hole. Over, and over, and over again.


    If you're Waldon, go back to running the offense from week 1. Where they motioned on most of their plays, used all areas of the field in the passing game. Featured outside zone runs with Wilson under center and booting off of it, which got the D-Lineman going sideways instead of pinning their ears back and going straight ahead.
    Fade
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  • Fade wrote:He checks to runs all of the time against 2 High. But they don't have the backs or the O-Line to consistently punish teams for cheating. They get behind the sticks and they have no choice but to throw.


    This. I keep hearing run the ball more, but its hard when you cant.
    pittpnthrs
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  • Tical21 wrote:

    So if you're Waldron, what do you do? Bottom line, we can't do anything until Russell starts checking to run. But he thinks he's Mahomes, so that won't happen. Teams have adjusted to Russell, and solved him. Instead of evolving as a player, he's decided instead to try to double-down and try to will his stuff to work. Week after week. Just banging that square peg into the round hole. Over, and over, and over again.

    You actually wrote "Teams have adjusted to Russell, and solved him"? :34853_doh:

    Credibility issues when you dust off that old trope.
    Palmegranite
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  • For all those criticizing Tical here, keep that same energy on the next Tokadub thread where he puts an entire paragraph of his old "PREDICTIONS" in bold. Should be around 3 of them this week.
    Maelstrom787
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  • Fade wrote:I appreciate the gloat, but you'll need a much bigger sample size. I'll never understand how people jump to conclusions. Imagine sitting there watching the games, season after season with this kind of confirmation bias, as Wilson is stacking probowls & wins year after year, waiting… biding your time for that "Aha! See I told you so!" moment.

    Problem. Elite QBs go through bad streches in their careers, it happens. Wilson, incredibly has been one of the few to avoid it for the most part. Rodgers was playing like Alex Smith for the better part of 3 years in his mid 30's. It took ousting Mike McCarthy and bringing in a new coach, and he actually got worse. Then in year 2 with that same new coach he popped and won another MVP.

    Brady's last year in New England, people called him done. Mahomes has been in a funk dating back to last year. But unlike Pete, Andy Reed doesn't shut the offense down and turtle up, he stays aggressive and continues to battle through it. Because he understands the bigger picture, and the rewards that will come when he finally breaks through. Pete would handle Mahomes the opposite. Shut everything down, play the field position game, and hope you can win it in the 4th.

    Pete has impeded Russell Wilson's development over the course of his career. But even with that, stack up Wilson's numbers over the last 50 games against anyone. He is better statistically or right there with anyone you want to name. While doing it behind lower ranked O-Lines, with an outdated defensive coach that has the reigns pulled tight for large stretches of the game, with mediocre to bad running games, and with only 1 or 2 viable receiving targets at most over that time.

    Pete's plan is to rope-a-dope the opponent for 3 quarters, and then bring in the Russell magic and try to win it in the 4th. Well, what happens when the QB is injured and not himself, or you're playing with a backup? Pete has no idea, he doesn't have any answers.

    But all of this is moot. Wilson clearly is done with Pete, they are getting a divorce. He wants to be with an offensive head coach. Whether that is here or elsewhere. Wilson will bounce back, eventually. Whether that is in a month, next season, or the season after. Pete will not, he is done. And the longer he stays the worse it's going to get.


    You just did exactly the same thing with Mahomes in the NFL forum, gloating about being ahead of the curve and saying you'd take Tannehill and Wilson over him. Come on now.
    Maelstrom787
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:Not sure I agree until I see Wilson in another system.

    What I do know is that Wilson DID all these things earlier in his career. He is not incapable.

    But his great strength is throwing on the run accurately.

    That we choose not leverage it is on us.

    That said, I've basically been predicting this slow-motion car crash since the SB loss.

    What is the point of being right?

    Wilson did just fine for years, that wasn't the problem.

    Even though he is having issues this year, that is not an indictment of his ability or acumen given his track record of success.



    Wilson never did the things he's still not capable of now. It's just that before, it seemed like Pete was just playing Peteball - ugly offense that Russ woukd save at the end by not executing the play and running around long enough for players to be open. The only other thing Bevel could do within the play scheme to get things out of Russ's hands was Lynch. Or a bubble screen.

    Cmon folks, if he's only but this good now, wouldn't it stand to reason that he's still better now than he was in year 2? Show me one qb that got worse at reading defenses over his career than better. That argument is entirely illogical. What you always hear is that QBs who play beyond their physical attributes dwindling usually succeed because the game slows down for them, they've seen every defense a million times and can compensate for lower velocity or mobility by making the read faster. Russ, finger or not, STILL can't beat cover 2. That's a pretty simple defense and as we've seen, we call plays that beat it almost every down.

    The denial is on par with the OJ trial back in the day.

    And you don't need to see russ on another team. All you have to do is look at the tape. Changing the uniforms isn't going to change his play. This isn't physics 3 and calculus 5 level stuff. It's basic multiplication tables.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=E6BUU_FZAPE

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq1NR9-zFig

    Just pretend he's wearing black and gold or whatever color you want...

    The plays work. The qb doesn't.

    The 35 minutes of proof above are all before his bent finger. And frankly it doesn't matter if schotty called those plays, russ did, or Pete meddled. They all worked and russ missed them then just like he does every game.
    keasley45
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  • Fade wrote:
    If you're Waldon, go back to running the offense from week 1. Where they motioned on most of their plays, used all areas of the field in the passing game. Featured outside zone runs with Wilson under center and booting off of it, which got the D-Lineman going sideways instead of pinning their ears back and going straight ahead.


    Yup. I keep looking at other teams using their RB and receivers on the outside - and I wonder why we can't do that more effectively.

    Week 1 was the last time I had hope for the season - for all of the reasons you list.
    ddores
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  • ddores wrote:
    Fade wrote:
    If you're Waldon, go back to running the offense from week 1. Where they motioned on most of their plays, used all areas of the field in the passing game. Featured outside zone runs with Wilson under center and booting off of it, which got the D-Lineman going sideways instead of pinning their ears back and going straight ahead.


    Yup. I keep looking at other teams using their RB and receivers on the outside - and I wonder why we can't do that more effectively.

    Week 1 was the last time I had hope for the season - for all of the reasons you list.


    Russ has never ever in 10 years been good at the screen game.

    We did however run them with Geno.
    keasley45
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  • Tical21 wrote:Took a lot of crap from a lot of people on here for a lotta years. Bit my lip knowing eventually everything I've been saying for years would be apparent to everyone. DO YOU HEAR ME NOW!!>!>!>

    #3 never mastered the mental part of playing quarterback, which was always going to be needed when his legs couldn't create magic anymore. Now his ego prevents us from running, which ironically is the one thing that would help him most.

    We've been seeing 2-deep almost exclusively for a year now. And have we executed even simple cover-2 concepts? At all? Hmmmm, why not? 3 coordinators now. Same results.

    Who is gonna line up first? Fade? Seymour? Soulfish? All a y'all can see me.


    So you wait until an injury, along with crap oline protection (Brown has given up 7 sacks in 10 games), and Wilson just plain in a funk attempting to come back to pronounce "I am the mighty Tical, and I was right for 5++ years"??? LMAO. Too bad you were saying it when he was playing top 5 football and we were winning. Grow a brain, circumstances today have completely changed and YOU WERE WRONG ALL ALONG for 5 years running. :177692:
    Seymour
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  • Wilson played an entire year, on essentially a walking boot, with little to no run game.

    We used quick passes that entire year. He couldn't run at all. And our run game was iffy to poor that year.

    So the whole 'He can only be good with a good run game' is ridiculous as the reason for his struggles. Also, EVERY QB is worse without any run game.

    Now, if you want to take the stance that Wilson is not great at many skills that most NFL QBs are good to great at? Sure.

    Wilson is exceptional to elite at many things that most NFL QBs struggle with.

    But he is below average in many 'basic' NFL QB skills too.

    So that is on the coach to find a way to use him that highlight his strengths and diminish his weaknesses.

    But Carroll does not do this because Carroll has one idea and will use it regardless of need, impact, opponent, roster, or anything else. He forces square pegs into round holes regularly, and this is just Wilson's turn.

    Is Wilson worth it?

    -Wilson is exceptionally accurate throwing deep.

    -He can throw on the move with tremendous accuracy.

    -Wilson on the move does not significantly limit his vision (whereas most defenses are predicated on moving the QB)

    -He does not get stressed or flustered under pressure or in big moments.


    Those are all tremendously difficult to find and or defend. If you cannot use that, that is on you as the coach.

    But....

    Wilson was hurt. He came back. Does he look the same as before? Sure as hell doesn't to me.

    I find it odd that all these issues only manifested to this degree after he was hurt.

    You don't think there is the smallest % chance that the hand injury either continues to be a problem or led to other bad habits that he now cannot shake? It sure looks like it.
    TwistedHusky
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  • Seymour wrote:
    Tical21 wrote:Took a lot of crap from a lot of people on here for a lotta years. Bit my lip knowing eventually everything I've been saying for years would be apparent to everyone. DO YOU HEAR ME NOW!!>!>!>

    #3 never mastered the mental part of playing quarterback, which was always going to be needed when his legs couldn't create magic anymore. Now his ego prevents us from running, which ironically is the one thing that would help him most.

    We've been seeing 2-deep almost exclusively for a year now. And have we executed even simple cover-2 concepts? At all? Hmmmm, why not? 3 coordinators now. Same results.

    Who is gonna line up first? Fade? Seymour? Soulfish? All a y'all can see me.


    So you wait until an injury, along with crap oline protection (Brown has given up 7 sacks in 10 games), and Wilson just plain in a funk attempting to come back to pronounce "I am the mighty Tical, and I was right for 5++ years"??? LMAO. Too bad you were saying it when he was playing top 5 football and we were winning. Grow a brain, circumstances today have completely changed and YOU WERE WRONG ALL ALONG for 5 years running. :177692:


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=E6BUU_FZAPE

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq1NR9-zFig

    What funk was Russ in here? Explain how any of that was a result of Pete or the OC or his finger. And if Kurt wanted to, he could put together the same critique probably every game for years. This isnt an abberation.

    And for the 50th time, the O-line is bad because they are in perpetual pass block mode for a qb that rarely goes to the spot in the pocket he's supposed to or gets the damn ball out of his hands the way a 2nd year guy would. No o-line in the history of the league thats actually built to run the ball, can hold up an entire season in pass pro. Its dumb for us to pass the way we do especially given the sorry results.

    HE HAS MOSTLY EVER MADE PLAYS WHEN HE'S NEGATED HIS INEFFECTIVENESS AT READING PLAYS AND JUST MADE SH!+ UP.


    Only difference is that now he cant make it up anymore and is left with plays he cant execute.
    keasley45
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:Wilson played an entire year, on essentially a walking boot, with little to no run game.

    We used quick passes that entire year. He couldn't run at all. And our run game was iffy to poor that year.

    So the whole 'He can only be good with a good run game' is ridiculous as the reason for his struggles. Also, EVERY QB is worse without any run game.

    Now, if you want to take the stance that Wilson is not great at many skills that most NFL QBs are good to great at? Sure.

    Wilson is exceptional to elite at many things that most NFL QBs struggle with.

    But he is below average in many 'basic' NFL QB skills too.

    So that is on the coach to find a way to use him that highlight his strengths and diminish his weaknesses.

    But Carroll does not do this because Carroll has one idea and will use it regardless of need, impact, opponent, roster, or anything else. He forces square pegs into round holes regularly, and this is just Wilson's turn.

    Is Wilson worth it?

    -Wilson is exceptionally accurate throwing deep.

    -He can throw on the move with tremendous accuracy.

    -Wilson on the move does not significantly limit his vision (whereas most defenses are predicated on moving the QB)

    -He does not get stressed or flustered under pressure or in big moments.


    Those are all tremendously difficult to find and or defend. If you cannot use that, that is on you as the coach.

    But....

    Wilson was hurt. He came back. Does he look the same as before? Sure as hell doesn't to me.

    I find it odd that all these issues only manifested to this degree after he was hurt.

    You don't think there is the smallest % chance that the hand injury either continues to be a problem or led to other bad habits that he now cannot shake? It sure looks like it.


    This^^^ though I think he can shake it. Ots only been 2 games and this last was better than the firsst.
    John63
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  • John63 wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Wilson played an entire year, on essentially a walking boot, with little to no run game.

    We used quick passes that entire year. He couldn't run at all. And our run game was iffy to poor that year.

    So the whole 'He can only be good with a good run game' is ridiculous as the reason for his struggles. Also, EVERY QB is worse without any run game.

    Now, if you want to take the stance that Wilson is not great at many skills that most NFL QBs are good to great at? Sure.

    Wilson is exceptional to elite at many things that most NFL QBs struggle with.

    But he is below average in many 'basic' NFL QB skills too.

    So that is on the coach to find a way to use him that highlight his strengths and diminish his weaknesses.

    But Carroll does not do this because Carroll has one idea and will use it regardless of need, impact, opponent, roster, or anything else. He forces square pegs into round holes regularly, and this is just Wilson's turn.

    Is Wilson worth it?

    -Wilson is exceptionally accurate throwing deep.

    -He can throw on the move with tremendous accuracy.

    -Wilson on the move does not significantly limit his vision (whereas most defenses are predicated on moving the QB)

    -He does not get stressed or flustered under pressure or in big moments.


    Those are all tremendously difficult to find and or defend. If you cannot use that, that is on you as the coach.

    But....

    Wilson was hurt. He came back. Does he look the same as before? Sure as hell doesn't to me.

    I find it odd that all these issues only manifested to this degree after he was hurt.

    You don't think there is the smallest % chance that the hand injury either continues to be a problem or led to other bad habits that he now cannot shake? It sure looks like it.


    This^^^ though I think he can shake it. Ots only been 2 games and this last was better than the firsst.


    The question is though... Whats the purpose of playing him when if we lose another game or two, which we will, we arent making the playoffs. And if we did make the playoffs, we wouldnt go far. Weve lost our starting RB, CBs, Nickle CB and our starting QB has a bum finger. If Russ cant run to create plays, and he cant throw to the plays he sees, AND there's a rift between the FO and him that hasnt closed at all and he wants out, WHATS THE POINT IN PLAYING HIM?

    Its the absolute worst thing we can do to put more game tape out there of him stinking. NFL analysts are already starting to pick up the drum beat that he isnt right... and not all are saying its just the finger. All marching him out there does is hurt our prospects of moving on this offseason and getting as much for him as possible.
    keasley45
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  • In all fairness to Tical21, there's been some glaring issues that I haven't seen the team adapt to that have eventually led to Seattle's fall from grace. I'm not trolling or being some kind of apologist for him or whatever, it's more I'm trying to understand where he's coming from, and I think I know what he's trying to say. I'm also not a real Xs and Os guy, but I can see where something is impacting the bigger picture, and I think that's where he's coming from (correct me if I'm wrong, though, Tical21).

    Seattle's issues IMO are not one of those things that happened out of the blue this year, but happened gradually over time, and superstars like Wilson, Lynch, Wagner, etc. have been able to effectively cover it up. Let's not lie to ourselves here, either: The division as a whole sucking ass from a straw for a while has also effectively covered up the stink, as Seattle IMO didn't have any real consistent competition in the division since XLIX, so the Seahawks year after year would practically get into the playoffs by default, regardless of their issues, only to run into a wall and have their flaws on full display when they go against a legitimate SB contender (i.e. whoever they faced in the Divisional round).

    On a side note, when I say "consistent competition," I mean teams that were consistently legit contenders and would force Seattle to improve. I don't consider teams like SF or Arizona over the past decade to be consistently good enough to be considered a major threat during that stretch. All they were really good at doing during that time was handing out free wins to whoever came to play them because they largely couldn't get out of their own way, except for maybe one or two good seasons. But I digress...

    The years would go by, and key issues that plagued them year after year continued to not get addressed during times like the off-season and draft, because they could always rely on guys like Wilson to come through with a last minute miracle to save the day. As Mike Holmgren said once, close games like that does nothing for blood pressure, but it makes for great TV.

    That's all fine and dandy, but it became pretty evident over the past few years since XLIX that the FO did not build the team for sustained success, and figured they could just throw money and draft picks at some big names (e.g. Jimmy Graham, Jamal Adams), and they could have the superstars carry the team (because only big names matter), while they throw a bunch of relative no-names in comparison into other spots. It made me feel like they would rather go after big names instead of being the team that coaches up their drafted talent, and instead, the coaching staff tells the young players to play angry and full of passion, even if it's to a fault (see: DK Metcalf).

    But now, it's reached a point where failing to adapt to a changing division (never mind league) and riding the nostalgia train of thinking what worked back during the SB run will work indefinitely has come back to bite Seattle in the ass.

    The division has improved over time, and none of them are a lock to pad Seattle's win column anymore. Even SF is showing promise.

    It makes me feel like the Seahawks' coaching staff (i.e. Pete?) is like that guy at your job that was really good at something once upon a time, but rested on the laurels of past accomplishments and thought everyone would live in reverence of him forever, just because he was great once upon a time.

    Guys like Pete Carroll are looking less like the Super Bowl-winning/contending coach of old, and are starting to look more and more like the head coach equivalent of Al Bundy.

    TL;DR: The league changed and adapted, and the Seahawks largely didn't, and here they are today.
    A.D.I.D.A.S.
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  • A.D.I.D.A.S. wrote:
    TL;DR: The league changed and adapted, and the Seahawks largely didn't, and here they are today.


    Definitely true, but IMO the #1 cause of the Hawk's collapse is Pete's inability to maintain his team's identity, on either side of the ball.

    He came into the league with a 100% commitment to being a fast, athletic, physical punishing team on both sides of the ball.

    Since Russell came into his own and got paid Pete has spent this entire time trying to find some happy middle ground of trying to keep that identity while also trying to keep Russell happy.

    It hasn't worked. It's left the Hawks with no identity and more importantly rudderless as a franchise with a 71 year old head coach desperate to hold it all together.
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Fade wrote:He checks to runs all of the time against 2 High. But they don't have the backs or the O-Line to consistently punish teams for cheating. They get behind the sticks and they have no choice but to throw.


    This. I keep hearing run the ball more, but its hard when you cant.


    The run game isn't the same without Carson, but they were getting some nice gains and first downs with it, especially when under center.

    Runs also = less sacks. Less sacks = less 3rd and long situations.

    It's not hard when you can't. It's hard when you don't. Collins had 10 carries.

    On the flipside, just look at the Cards. James Conner had 21 carries.

    Yes McCoy played well within their system, got rid of the ball, utilized TEs over the middle, and made plays when he needed to. But he also had the benefit of a run game. It wasn't some rocket-science type gameplan that Kingsbury drew up that made him successful.
    hoxrox
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  • keasley45 wrote:And for the 50th time, the O-line is bad because they are in perpetual pass block mode for a qb that rarely goes to the spot in the pocket he's supposed to or gets the damn ball out of his hands the way a 2nd year guy would.


    I just read a stat last night that Wilson gets pressured or hit within 2.1 seconds on average,,,,,,from the shotgun. Its no wonder he doesnt want to line up under center. He has been hit and pummeled so often in his career due to pathetic Oline play that I truly believe he's gun shy. I was saying last year that I think he has 'Carr Syndrome' and i'm almost certain of that now. All those years of ignoring the Oline might have ruined him.

    Sorry but the Oline is bad because they are bad. Period.
    pittpnthrs
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  • hoxrox wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    Fade wrote:He checks to runs all of the time against 2 High. But they don't have the backs or the O-Line to consistently punish teams for cheating. They get behind the sticks and they have no choice but to throw.


    This. I keep hearing run the ball more, but its hard when you cant.


    The run game isn't the same without Carson, but they were getting some nice gains and first downs with it, especially when under center.

    Runs also = less sacks. Less sacks = less 3rd and long situations.

    It's not hard when you can't. It's hard when you don't. Collins had 10 carries.

    On the flipside, just look at the Cards. James Conner had 21 carries.

    Yes McCoy played well within their system, got rid of the ball, utilized TEs over the middle, and made plays when he needed to. But he also had the benefit of a run game. It wasn't some rocket-science type gameplan that Kingsbury drew up that made him successful.


    This. All day, everyday, 365 days per year.
    keasley45
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  • Really speaks to the state of things when nobody has yet given Tical the apologies he is very clearly owed.
    pinksheets
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    A.D.I.D.A.S. wrote:
    TL;DR: The league changed and adapted, and the Seahawks largely didn't, and here they are today.


    Definitely true, but IMO the #1 cause of the Hawk's collapse is Pete's inability to maintain his team's identity, on either side of the ball.

    He came into the league with a 100% commitment to being a fast, athletic, physical punishing team on both sides of the ball.

    Since Russell came into his own and got paid Pete has spent this entire time trying to find some happy middle ground of trying to keep that identity while also trying to keep Russell happy.

    It hasn't worked. It's left the Hawks with no identity and more importantly rudderless as a franchise with a 71 year old head coach desperate to hold it all together.


    Schneider's roster management is by far the biggest issue to me. It has been an absolute disaster for the past 4-5 years. Terrible trades, terrible draft picks, and just a bunch of head scratchers.
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  • Tical21 wrote:Now this is just disingenuous. I've been telling you for years that the biggest reason for Russell's success was our insistence on running the football, which for the first 9 years of his career gave Russell single-high, simpler coverages.


    So much stupidity gets posted on here it getting tiresome even replying.

    The Seahawks had historically bad running games in 2016 & 2017. They've been mediocre to poor since, outside of few games here and there when Carson is healthy, which he never is.

    Wilson hasn't enjoyed a consistently good running game since 2015. Over half of his career.

    Tical21 wrote: Coverages that allowed him to leverage his greatest strength, which is that he's the most accurate deep ball passer in the history of the game. Your failure was thinking this would translate if we decided to pass more, and pass into more 2-deep and disguised coverages. If we stop playing "Pete Ball" and just "Let Russ Cook".

    It doesn't work when the opposing team doesn't worry about the running game and instead takes away the deep ball. It just doesn't. See the ugly picks, trying to desperately push the ball down the field? They aren't scared of anything anymore besides getting beat over the top. These picks come because you can't execute core concepts properly, so you have to throw desperation passes instead. You really think Russell is going to re-invent himself and figure out how to execute at this point in his career? Bottom line, Russell Wilson is DONE being a successful quarterback in this league, unless he allows himself to play off of the running game again. Period. He's been solved.


    I've told you all this was going to happen. I told you all we didn't want to go to a pass-first offense because Russell doesn't execute like that. I told you all he wasn't Patrick Mahomes. Now that you're seeing it with your own eyes in a way that is impossible to hide from, you're still blaming Pete? Really? For doing what? You're on the wrong side of this one my friend, and you've been on the wrong side of it for a long time. And if you're unwilling to admit that after what we've seen for a year now, there's no point continuing this debate any further. You're just making stuff up and doubling down against all evidence at this point.


    He is executing so poorly he's #2 graded player in the league. Despite no longer seeing these "simpler" coverages.


    You're the one making stuff up. The entire team is a mess. Top to bottom, and instead of blaming the guy in charge of the construction of this dumpster fire. You're blaming the QB who can no longer overcome said dumpster fire that has been festering and getting worse for years.
    Fade
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  • Not even worth a response. Congrats. You actually feel good about this. Try not to hurt yourself patting yourself on the back. You got your internet attention!!! Good for you kid.

    Have a great holiday everyone :irishdrinkers:
    Last edited by SoulfishHawk on Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    You just did exactly the same thing with Mahomes in the NFL forum, gloating about being ahead of the curve and saying you'd take Tannehill and Wilson over him. Come on now.


    You obviously didn't read that thread. I started a dialog of Pat Mahomes struggles, at that point he was playing worse than half the QBs in the league. And graded out as such, posted the evidence. The National Media a week or two later caught up and agreed.

    And I clearly stated: "Right now, not longterm." I also said "I think he will eventually work his way through this, but it could take some time."

    But read what you want, and put words in other people's mouths, that is how people operate around here.
    Fade
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  • I hope the OP goes and gets a shoulder X-ray. He's undoubtedly dislocated it or worse, patting himself on the back so hard. :roll: :roll: :roll:

    I don't have him on 'foe' yet, but that drivel is getting him closer all the time. I hate it when reading a post causes individual brain cells to commit suicide.

    I was hoping that most of the stupid $h!t would have been over by today so I avoided yesterday like the plague. I was wrong about that.
    GeekHawk
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  • Fade wrote:
    Tical21 wrote:Now this is just disingenuous. I've been telling you for years that the biggest reason for Russell's success was our insistence on running the football, which for the first 9 years of his career gave Russell single-high, simpler coverages.


    So much stupidity gets posted on here it getting tiresome even replying.

    The Seahawks had historically bad running games in 2016 & 2017. They've been mediocre to poor since, outside of few games here and there when Carson is healthy, which he never is.

    Wilson hasn't enjoyed a consistently good running game since 2015. Over half of his career.

    Tical21 wrote: Coverages that allowed him to leverage his greatest strength, which is that he's the most accurate deep ball passer in the history of the game. Your failure was thinking this would translate if we decided to pass more, and pass into more 2-deep and disguised coverages. If we stop playing "Pete Ball" and just "Let Russ Cook".

    It doesn't work when the opposing team doesn't worry about the running game and instead takes away the deep ball. It just doesn't. See the ugly picks, trying to desperately push the ball down the field? They aren't scared of anything anymore besides getting beat over the top. These picks come because you can't execute core concepts properly, so you have to throw desperation passes instead. You really think Russell is going to re-invent himself and figure out how to execute at this point in his career? Bottom line, Russell Wilson is DONE being a successful quarterback in this league, unless he allows himself to play off of the running game again. Period. He's been solved.


    I've told you all this was going to happen. I told you all we didn't want to go to a pass-first offense because Russell doesn't execute like that. I told you all he wasn't Patrick Mahomes. Now that you're seeing it with your own eyes in a way that is impossible to hide from, you're still blaming Pete? Really? For doing what? You're on the wrong side of this one my friend, and you've been on the wrong side of it for a long time. And if you're unwilling to admit that after what we've seen for a year now, there's no point continuing this debate any further. You're just making stuff up and doubling down against all evidence at this point.


    He is executing so poorly he's #2 graded player in the league. Despite no longer seeing these "simpler" coverages.


    You're the one making stuff up. The entire team is a mess. Top to bottom, and instead of blaming the guy in charge of the construction of this dumpster fire. You're blaming the QB who can no longer overcome said dumpster fire that has been festering and getting worse for years.


    Glad someone called this flat out stupidity out......AGAIN! That was always TiCal's go to that Russell could not read and execute against zone and again and again we posted real stats proving otherwise.

    Maybe he'll go and hide for another year now??
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  • Fade wrote:
    Tical21 wrote:Another system? You're aware this is our third system in the past five years, and all have been very diverse, yeah? Bevell was a WCO, Schotty was power run, Waldron a bit more misdirection, but all quite different systems..


    Nope. They all conform to Pete. They didn't change the offense when Schotty came, as confirmed by Pete.
    Waldron was de-nutted very quickly. Watch the week 1 Colts game and compare it to what it is now.

    Three different sock puppets, that add a little of the flavor over the top, but aren't allowed to cook the meal are not 3 different systems.

    Tical21 wrote:He DID NOT do these things earlier in his career. I've been waiting and waiting for him to execute core concepts his whole career, which I've written about dozens and dozens of times here over his career.


    He loves Sprint Right Option (anything rollout really.) Waggle. Mesh, (anything involving crossers really, including deep over.) Double Seam.

    Tical21 wrote:His strength WAS throwing on the run accurately. He no longer has the freakish athleticism that was once his hallmark, so we're stuck with the version that doesn't know how to execute against 2-deep zone coverages, and can't extend the plays long enough for these zones to collapse.


    It's still his strength. He is completing 85% of his passes at 13.9 YPA on playaction & rollouts before the AZ game. They went away from it for whatever reason, instead choosing to go back to the sitting duck offense behind one the worst pass blocking O-Lines in the NFL.

    Tical21 wrote:No matter what system you run, against a 2-deep zone, it eventually is going to come down to executing core 2-deep zone concepts. These include but are not limited to: flood/smash (we can't execute this because Russ refuses to hit the corner route over a rolled corner), dagger (this is literally wide open multiple times every game but Russ refuses to throw it because he is scared of the LB), some kind of levels concept (which we can't use because Russ can't see).


    You have to take the Drew Brees approach which is Seams and Screens. And build a top 5 offensive line, especially on the interior, to assist with your diminutive QBs sight-lines. Pete never got the memo. And generally how they are supposed to be built as told by Pete Carroll, but aren't, is to run the ball down their throat. Asking any offensive coach what is the best approach against a 2 high defense and it is to run them out of it.

    Tical21 wrote:When there is a 2-deep zone, this suggests you'll have a light box to run against. Most quarterbacks will just check to a run. But Russell refuses to do so. Hello, ego. So, lately, we've been looking for our deep concepts, which usually aren't there or Russ forces anyways, or Russ tries to buy time until something comes open, which he isn't great at.
    He checks to runs all of the time against 2 High. But they don't have the backs or the O-Line to consistently punish teams for cheating. They get behind the sticks and they have no choice but to throw.

    Tical21 wrote:So if you're Waldron, what do you do? Bottom line, we can't do anything until Russell starts checking to run. But he thinks he's Mahomes, so that won't happen. Teams have adjusted to Russell, and solved him. Instead of evolving as a player, he's decided instead to try to double-down and try to will his stuff to work. Week after week. Just banging that square peg into the round hole. Over, and over, and over again.


    If you're Waldon, go back to running the offense from week 1. Where they motioned on most of their plays, used all areas of the field in the passing game. Featured outside zone runs with Wilson under center and booting off of it, which got the D-Lineman going sideways instead of pinning their ears back and going straight ahead.

    LOL THIS^^^^....Tickle21 is just keeps on embarrassing himself, & doesn't know how to ADMIT that HE IS WRONG.
    scutterhawk
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  • so ten years in and after two bad games the NFL just figured Wilson out? Is Tical for real or a long time troll?
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  • Fade wrote:I appreciate the gloat, but you'll need a much bigger sample size. I'll never understand how people jump to conclusions. Imagine sitting there watching the games, season after season with this kind of confirmation bias, as Wilson is stacking probowls & wins year after year, waiting… biding your time for that "Aha! See I told you so!" moment.

    Problem. Elite QBs go through bad streches in their careers, it happens. Wilson, incredibly has been one of the few to avoid it for the most part. Rodgers was playing like Alex Smith for the better part of 3 years in his mid 30's. It took ousting Mike McCarthy and bringing in a new coach, and he actually got worse. Then in year 2 with that same new coach he popped and won another MVP.

    Brady's last year in New England, people called him done. Mahomes has been in a funk dating back to last year. But unlike Pete, Andy Reed doesn't shut the offense down and turtle up, he stays aggressive and continues to battle through it. Because he understands the bigger picture, and the rewards that will come when he finally breaks through. Pete would handle Mahomes the opposite. Shut everything down, play the field position game, and hope you can win it in the 4th.

    Pete has impeded Russell Wilson's development over the course of his career. But even with that, stack up Wilson's numbers over the last 50 games against anyone. He is better statistically or right there with anyone you want to name. While doing it behind lower ranked O-Lines, with an outdated defensive coach that has the reigns pulled tight for large stretches of the game, with mediocre to bad running games, and with only 1 or 2 viable receiving targets at most over that time.

    Pete's plan is to rope-a-dope the opponent for 3 quarters, and then bring in the Russell magic and try to win it in the 4th. Well, what happens when the QB is injured and not himself, or you're playing with a backup? Pete has no idea, he doesn't have any answers.

    But all of this is moot. Wilson clearly is done with Pete, they are getting a divorce. He wants to be with an offensive head coach. Whether that is here or elsewhere. Wilson will bounce back, eventually. Whether that is in a month, next season, or the season after. Pete will not, he is done. And the longer he stays the worse it's going to get.


    This was a fantastic post. Wilson leads the NFL in touchdowns since 2017 what a colassal failure he is, tical is obviously right guys
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:Wilson played an entire year, on essentially a walking boot, with little to no run game.

    We used quick passes that entire year. He couldn't run at all. And our run game was iffy to poor that year.

    So the whole 'He can only be good with a good run game' is ridiculous as the reason for his struggles. Also, EVERY QB is worse without any run game.

    Now, if you want to take the stance that Wilson is not great at many skills that most NFL QBs are good to great at? Sure.

    Wilson is exceptional to elite at many things that most NFL QBs struggle with.

    But he is below average in many 'basic' NFL QB skills too.

    So that is on the coach to find a way to use him that highlight his strengths and diminish his weaknesses.

    But Carroll does not do this because Carroll has one idea and will use it regardless of need, impact, opponent, roster, or anything else. He forces square pegs into round holes regularly, and this is just Wilson's turn.

    Is Wilson worth it?

    -Wilson is exceptionally accurate throwing deep.

    -He can throw on the move with tremendous accuracy.

    -Wilson on the move does not significantly limit his vision (whereas most defenses are predicated on moving the QB)

    -He does not get stressed or flustered under pressure or in big moments.


    Those are all tremendously difficult to find and or defend. If you cannot use that, that is on you as the coach.

    But....

    Wilson was hurt. He came back. Does he look the same as before? Sure as hell doesn't to me.

    I find it odd that all these issues only manifested to this degree after he was hurt.

    You don't think there is the smallest % chance that the hand injury either continues to be a problem or led to other bad habits that he now cannot shake? It sure looks like it.

    Yep, ^^^^^ that was in 2015 if I remember correctly, that was when RUSS & DOUG BALDWIN (Russ' outlet guy) were tearing chit up.
    Since DB retired, & our Offensive line play still not getting up to speed, Wilson is having some problems re-adapting.
    I thought we had some of a DB 2.0 with Lockett, but Pete is still trying to take it back to a Run Heavy Offense, but doesn't have the horses to run it, at least NOT THE WAY he wants to.
    Last edited by scutterhawk on Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    scutterhawk
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  • There will NEVER come a day when Tical admits he's wrong about anything, EVER.
    Kind of a sad existence, but oh well. Most responses said anything that needed to be said.

    Fecal is such a dedicated Russ basher, that he makes x-ray seem like he actually LIKES Russ. Ten years in and he finally acts like he is right because of a couple bad games on a crap team. A team with no pass blocking, horrific play calling and a guy playing with an injury that Pete should have noticed enough to keep him out.
    But yeah, Russ sucks. Hilarious. Love a good afternoon laugh.

    Enjoy your holiday, and hopefully we can talk about a win next week.
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  • pinksheets wrote:Really speaks to the state of things when nobody has yet given Tical the apologies he is very clearly owed.

    Um yeah :lol: :lol: :lol: , I designate YOU to be the one holding your breath for that "Apology" to happen, & you are going to go through several colors of blue before you pass out, eh? :lol:
    Tical is owed NOTHING but a good laughing at.
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  • Our scoring is down under 21 a game over the last 17, while seeing predominantly zone coverage. Does that smell elite to everyone,. or just me? LRC!!!
    Tical21
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  • Tical21 wrote:Our scoring is down under 21 a game over the last 17, while seeing predominantly zone coverage. Does that smell elite to everyone,. or just me? LRC!!!

    Go play in the freeway. :177692:
    scutterhawk
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  • I mean I don't know about y'all, but 13 of 37 on 3rd down just to me totally screams "effective against zone defense."
    Tical21
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:There will NEVER come a day when Tical admits he's wrong about anything, EVER.
    Kind of a sad existence, but oh well. Most responses said anything that needed to be said.

    Fecal is such a dedicated Russ basher, that he makes x-ray seem like he actually LIKES Russ. Ten years in and he finally acts like he is right because of a couple bad games on a crap team. A team with no pass blocking, horrific play calling and a guy playing with an injury that Pete should have noticed enough to keep him out.
    But yeah, Russ sucks. Hilarious. Love a good afternoon laugh.

    Enjoy your holiday, and hopefully we can talk about a win next week.



    This^^ and he will disappear just as quick when Wilson is back to his normal high performing self.
    John63
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  • John63 wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:There will NEVER come a day when Tical admits he's wrong about anything, EVER.
    Kind of a sad existence, but oh well. Most responses said anything that needed to be said.

    Fecal is such a dedicated Russ basher, that he makes x-ray seem like he actually LIKES Russ. Ten years in and he finally acts like he is right because of a couple bad games on a crap team. A team with no pass blocking, horrific play calling and a guy playing with an injury that Pete should have noticed enough to keep him out.
    But yeah, Russ sucks. Hilarious. Love a good afternoon laugh.

    Enjoy your holiday, and hopefully we can talk about a win next week.



    This^^ and he will disappear just as quick when Wilson is back to his normal high performing self.

    I have no doubt Russell can be great again if he were to see single high safeties. Teams know that they can play 2-deep safeties against us all day and focus on taking away the deep ball and Russell will not check to run. Teams have adapted how they play Russell. If he wants to be successful again, he must adapt. He must check his ego at the door and realize he must run the ball to open up the pass. He has to adapt. And he has shown zero willingness to do so. If he does not, and I'm quite certain he will not, it's going to keep being ugly.

    Zero of what I said in the above paragraph is controversial.

    You can call me a Russell hater or whatever you want to. These are the facts. They are not open to debate. Russell cannot have sustained success against 2-deep safeties. Period. Everyone knows it but him.
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