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Is Russell truly a HOF QB as of right now?

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  • If he never played another down, does he have the resume or is everyone referring to his trajectory? Honest question as I don't pay any attention to career numbers or even season numbers for that matter.
    OrangeGravy
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  • Without question.

    Outside of the Seahawks echo chamber, he gets the respect he deserves.
    Beren
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  • OrangeGravy wrote:If he never played another down, does he have the resume or is everyone referring to his trajectory? Honest question as I don't pay any attention to career numbers or even season numbers for that matter.


    If he never has 1 winning season again he might somehow miss it.

    If that happens his career stats will be way worst than they are now.

    A good example would be Jon Olerud


    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/olerujo01.shtml


    He Led the entire league in 1993 in Batting Average (.363)...

    If he did that THIS SEASON he would lead the league by about .040 points... that's a LOT!


    My point is that a lot of great players get passed by in sports history if they fall a little short. If you compare the stats of Jon Olerud vs Edgar Martinez they are pretty similar... But Edgar BARELY made the hall of fame... Olerud didn't...

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/olerujo01.shtml

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/martied01.shtml


    Their batting average is .014 different (That is 1 out of 71 batting attempts Edgar hit and Olerud didn't?)

    I donno... if you look at the stats they are very similar Edgar is obviously better but he BARELY made the hall of fame...

    It might be something as small as stolen bases that got Egdar in and Olerud out... (you've got to consider Edgar was mostly a designated hitter)... but he still had more stolen bases...

    That's the kind of margin we are talking about in the MLB...

    Olerud's best season had a better batting average than Edgar ever had... but he needed to do MORE (best in the league was not enough)!... Wilson is approaching that kind of territory, if he sucks really bad like he does this season he might miss it like Olerud :pukeface:

    I'm not sure if the NFL is that competitive to make the hall of fame like MLB but... if it is... Wilson cannot play like trash the rest of his career. He might not make it.
    Tokadub
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  • Before the season began, I felt that Russell's resume was borderline. The standards for QB's entrance into the Hall seem to be increasing. I don't think you're going to see anymore Kenny Stablers getting a gold jacket. IMO Russell needs either a league MVP or Super Bowl MVP, or at least another Lombardi, to be assured of an induction.

    Right now, Russell looks a lot like Eli Manning, who has two SB MVP's and 4 Pro Bowl appearances but ended his career on a real downer as his last 3 teams finished 3-13, 5-11, and 4-12. Compare that to Russell's current resume of no MVP's, one Lombardi, but he has 8 Pro Bowl appearances. Does having twice the Pro Bowl appearances trump two SB MVP's? IMO for a quarterback, it's basically a push.

    More than any other position, greatness for quarterbacks is measured by team success, and the ultimate team success is the Lombardi.
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  • OrangeGravy wrote:If he never played another down, does he have the resume or is everyone referring to his trajectory? Honest question as I don't pay any attention to career numbers or even season numbers for that matter.


    IF he never played another down, Russ is a first ballot HOF. If he play another 5 years at or similar to this season's level, he could play himself out of HOF.
    toffee
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  • RiverDog wrote:Before the season began, I felt that Russell's resume was borderline. The standards for QB's entrance into the Hall seem to be increasing. I don't think you're going to see anymore Kenny Stablers getting a gold jacket. IMO Russell needs either a league MVP or Super Bowl MVP, or at least another Lombardi, to be assured of an induction.

    Right now, Russell looks a lot like Eli Manning, who has two SB MVP's and 4 Pro Bowl appearances but ended his career on a real downer as his last 3 teams finished 3-13, 5-11, and 4-12. Compare that to Russell's current resume of no MVP's, one Lombardi, but he has 8 Pro Bowl appearances. Does having twice the Pro Bowl appearances trump two SB MVP's? IMO for a quarterback, it's basically a push.

    More than any other position, greatness for quarterbacks is measured by team success, and the ultimate team success is the Lombardi.



    The difference to me is Wilson also changed the way the QB position is looked at. were as once an under 6 ft Qb was a huge no-no. now people almost embrace it. That said anyone who thinks Wilson is finished is really kidding themselves.
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  • Look no further than all his stats, records and accolades. The man is Canton bound without playing another down.
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  • RiverDog wrote:Before the season began, I felt that Russell's resume was borderline. The standards for QB's entrance into the Hall seem to be increasing. I don't think you're going to see anymore Kenny Stablers getting a gold jacket. IMO Russell needs either a league MVP or Super Bowl MVP, or at least another Lombardi, to be assured of an induction.

    Right now, Russell looks a lot like Eli Manning, who has two SB MVP's and 4 Pro Bowl appearances but ended his career on a real downer as his last 3 teams finished 3-13, 5-11, and 4-12. Compare that to Russell's current resume of no MVP's, one Lombardi, but he has 8 Pro Bowl appearances. Does having twice the Pro Bowl appearances trump two SB MVP's? IMO for a quarterback, it's basically a push.

    More than any other position, greatness for quarterbacks is measured by team success, and the ultimate team success is the Lombardi.



    John63 wrote:The difference to me is Wilson also changed the way the QB position is looked at. were as once an under 6 ft Qb was a huge no-no. now people almost embrace it. That said anyone who thinks Wilson is finished is really kidding themselves.


    That's a good point, something I hadn't thought about. Nevertheless, I don't think he's a slam dunk first ballot HOF'er, at least not at this point of his career. He's not going to be able to implode and end his career as a backup.

    I agree that he's not finished, but his story on this team may be coming to an end.
    RiverDog
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  • RiverDog wrote:Before the season began, I felt that Russell's resume was borderline. The standards for QB's entrance into the Hall seem to be increasing. I don't think you're going to see anymore Kenny Stablers getting a gold jacket. IMO Russell needs either a league MVP or Super Bowl MVP, or at least another Lombardi, to be assured of an induction.

    Right now, Russell looks a lot like Eli Manning, who has two SB MVP's and 4 Pro Bowl appearances but ended his career on a real downer as his last 3 teams finished 3-13, 5-11, and 4-12. Compare that to Russell's current resume of no MVP's, one Lombardi, but he has 8 Pro Bowl appearances. Does having twice the Pro Bowl appearances trump two SB MVP's? IMO for a quarterback, it's basically a push.

    More than any other position, greatness for quarterbacks is measured by team success, and the ultimate team success is the Lombardi.



    Eli is a unique case. Comes from a popular football family and he won in New York. The hall of fame is voted on by pro-football writers and they tend to support players that win from major media markets.
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  • Right now ? LOL...he will get in eventually but not 1st ballot . Without an MVP or a 1st team all-pro it will be hard to be 1st ballot HOF . We know that those won't happen this year .
    xray
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  • I think Russell's borderline right now.

    Russell's top 20-30 in every major statistical category, so IMO he'd have to get into the top 10-15 to be a slam dunk.

    So now? Borderline.
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  • OrangeGravy wrote:If he never played another down, does he have the resume or is everyone referring to his trajectory? Honest question as I don't pay any attention to career numbers or even season numbers for that matter.

    ABSOFREAKINGLUTELY!!, and only a damned fool would argue that he isn't. :snack:
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:I think Russell's borderline right now.

    Russell's top 20-30 in every major statistical category, so IMO he'd have to get into the top 10-15 to be a slam dunk.

    So now? Borderline.


    I agree.

    IMO the Hall has been way too liberal in who they've been giving gold jackets to, with Drew Pearson and Tom Flores being the two most recent examples.
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  • Russell Wilson will be in the hall of fame
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  • WTF is wrong with you people.

    He has beaten pretty much every qb record for his 9years. Got a ring. No question he is HOF QB/
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  • rcaido wrote:WTF is wrong with you people.

    He has beaten pretty much every qb record for his 9years. Got a ring. No question he is HOF QB/


    What's wrong is a poster exclaiming "WTF is wrong with you people" for expressing their opinions as if he is blessed with some sort of superior knowledge on an issue that is entirely subjective and open to interpretation.
    RiverDog
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  • Ok, I am a Russel Wilson Homer. I have no doubt in my mind that Russ is a first ballot HOF if his career ends today. If his career continues for a few more years, or a decade as Russ predicted. Would he still be a HOF is hard to tell.

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    toffee
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  • toffee wrote:Ok, I am a Russel Wilson Homer. I have no doubt in my mind that Russ is a first ballot HOF if his career ends today. If his career continues for a few more years, or a decade as Russ predicted. Would he still be a HOF is hard to tell.

    Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk


    Depends on his trajectory, also depends on guys like Mahomes, Tannehill, and others where their career goes, problem is with rules gawdy numbers are easier to get, be in the right system and get say 2 trophies and a MVP that can push Wilson way down, remember he has 1 MVP vote total ever.

    Today yes possibly, 5 or 10 years, this is a popularity contest many times and accomplishments, Trophies MVP Consistency and headlines. The media has a hard time remembering 10 years ago, and he would have to wait a total of 15 years or so if he played another 10.
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  • Without a doubt. Passing yards is a poor way to separate QBs especially after 7 years . Add in completion %, ints, TD % , availability year in year out and career wins with 2 SB appearances 1 trophy. He is a shoo in.
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  • Also, Aikman is in. Russ is guranteed. It's not just superbowl wins, because then that is saying Emmitt Smith, micheal Irvin, offensive line and hella good defensive players did nothing. That is why the qb wins crap is overrated. Team game guys not and individual player stat.

    Plus just compare russ to Aikman. Most awards are a popularity contest.
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    toffee wrote:Ok, I am a Russel Wilson Homer. I have no doubt in my mind that Russ is a first ballot HOF if his career ends today. If his career continues for a few more years, or a decade as Russ predicted. Would he still be a HOF is hard to tell.

    Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk


    Depends on his trajectory, also depends on guys like Mahomes, Tannehill, and others where their career goes, problem is with rules gawdy numbers are easier to get, be in the right system and get say 2 trophies and a MVP that can push Wilson way down, remember he has 1 MVP vote total ever.

    Today yes possibly, 5 or 10 years, this is a popularity contest many times and accomplishments, Trophies MVP Consistency and headlines. The media has a hard time remembering 10 years ago, and he would have to wait a total of 15 years or so if he played another 10.
    My thought exactly.

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    toffee
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  • Yes.
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  • Yes
    K.J WRIGHT
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  • jamescasey1124 wrote:Also, Aikman is in. Russ is guranteed. It's not just superbowl wins, because then that is saying Emmitt Smith, micheal Irvin, offensive line and hella good defensive players did nothing. That is why the qb wins crap is overrated. Team game guys not and individual player stat.

    Plus just compare russ to Aikman. Most awards are a popularity contest.


    Aikman has 3 rings and a SB MVP. A more egregious selection would be Kenny Stabler with one ring and a SB MVP.

    None of us can rightfully say that a gold jacket is "guaranteed" or a "slam dunk." It all depends on who's voting. I would have never thought that a player like Drew Pearson would have ever made it to the Hall, but he did. And I thought that Terrell Owens was a slam dunk on the first ballot, but it took him 3 tries before they voted him in. Bottom line is that our personal opinions don't matter. The committee doesn't ask for our input.

    Quarterbacks play at the most statistically quantifiable position in the game. They're also the most popular when it comes to MVP trophies. Russell has some of the things the committee generally looks for, including a ring and 8 Pro Bowls. But he doesn't have any league/SB MVP's, no All Pro selections, and isn't top 10 in any of the major statistical categories.

    In my opinion, Russell needs to pad his resume by getting a league MVP, a SB MVP, an All Pro selection, or accumulate more stats like passing yardage and touchdown passes to the point where he's in the top 10 in those categories to cap off his career and make it on the first ballot. They're going to be comparing his numbers/trophies to guys like Brees and Rodgers.
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  • Sb rings aren't a single factor for hall of fame. They are additionals. Aikman stats compared to Russ aren't top 10 either.

    If super bowls and mvps were that important. Marino wouldn't be in. But he is still talked about as one of the best ever.

    Russ is guranteed. I will bet you at this moment several years later.
    jamescasey1124
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  • jamescasey1124 wrote:Sb rings aren't a single factor for hall of fame. They are additionals. Aikman stats compared to Russ aren't top 10 either.

    If super bowls and mvps were that important. Marino wouldn't be in. But he is still talked about as one of the best ever.

    Russ is guranteed. I will bet you at this moment several years later.


    Marino was the league MVP in 1984. He had 3 All Pro selections and some gaudy stats, like the all time leader in passing yardage when he retired, that made up for his lack of a ring. Same with Dan Fouts, who also doesn't have a ring.

    I disagree. Rings are a big part of the criteria. They're not the most important nor are they a requirement, but they are attributes that are in the top 3 or 4 items that committees look at. It's why Troy Aikman is in and Dave Krieg and Vinny Testeverde aren't.

    There are some players, Joe Namath being one, that are inducted for an off the resume reason. In Namath's case, it was his personality at a time that the league was in transition just before the merger, the guaranteed win in the SB, and so forth, that got him elected. Someone mentioned a similar off the resume factor for Russell, that being his height, that he cleared the way for a player like Kyler Murray to be given a shot. I'm not sure that's going to resonate with the committee, but you never know.

    I'd gladly take you up on your bet, but the problem is that Russell's career isn't over. We're talking about if he is "truly a HOF QB as of right now". It would be impossible for either of us to claim victory.
    RiverDog
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  • RiverDog wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:Sb rings aren't a single factor for hall of fame. They are additionals. Aikman stats compared to Russ aren't top 10 either.

    If super bowls and mvps were that important. Marino wouldn't be in. But he is still talked about as one of the best ever.

    Russ is guranteed. I will bet you at this moment several years later.


    Marino was the league MVP in 1984. He had 3 All Pro selections and some gaudy stats, like the all time leader in passing yardage when he retired, that made up for his lack of a ring. Same with Dan Fouts, who also doesn't have a ring.

    I disagree about the rings. They are a big part of the criteria. They're not the most important nor are they a requirement, but they are attributes that are in the top 3 or 4 items that committees look at. It's why Troy Aikman is in and Dave Krieg and Vinny Testeverde aren't. If Eli Manning makes it in, it will be on the strength of his two rings and SB MVP's.

    There are some players, Joe Namath being one, that are inducted for an off the resume reason. In Namath's case, it was his personality at a time that the league was in transition just before the merger, the guaranteed win in the SB, and so forth, that got him elected. Someone mentioned a similar off the resume factor for Russell, that being his height, that he cleared the way for a player like Kyler Murray to be given a shot. I'm not sure that's going to resonate with the committee, but you never know.

    I'd gladly take you up on your bet, but the problem is that Russell's career isn't over. We're talking about if he is "truly a HOF QB as of right now". It would be impossible for either of us to claim victory.
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  • Go to 14:10 into that youtube video and see the startling data proving Wilson is the worst QB in the league in a statistical category known as "How Quarterbacks have performed when expected to pass in 2021".

    Wilson is DEAD LAST IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE FOR PLAYS WHEN THE QB IS EXPECTED TO PASS IN 2021!

    If he continues like that he could very well not make the hall of fame, that's unacceptably terrible play.

    We can put part of the blame on the coaches but it's still pathetic individual performance from Wilson.
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  • I did a little research on non HOF quarterbacks, both active and retired, and their overall ranking as measured by total passing yardage:

    1) Tom Brady, 82k 2) Drew Brees, 80k 5) Phillip Rivers, 63K 6) Ben Worthlessburger, 63K. 8) Matt Ryan, 58K 9) Eli Manning, 57K. 10) Aaron Rodgers, 53K. 13) Mathew Stafford, 48K. 15) Carson Palmer, 46K. 16) Vinny Testaverde, 46k. 17) Drew Bledsoe, 44k. 19) Joe Flacco, 41K. 20) Kerry Collins, 41K. 23) Dave Krieg, 38K. 24) Boomer Esiasan, 37K. 25) Donovan McNabb, 37k. 26) Matt Hasselbeck, 36K. 27) Alex Smith, 35k. 28) Russell Wilson, 35K.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... career.htm

    It's just an FYI that I felt should be part of the discussion.
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  • Tokadub wrote:

    Go to 14:10 into that youtube video and see the startling data proving Wilson is the worst QB in the league in a statistical category known as "How Quarterbacks have performed when expected to pass in 2021".

    Wilson is DEAD LAST IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE FOR PLAYS WHEN THE QB IS EXPECTED TO PASS IN 2021!

    If he continues like that he could very well not make the hall of fame, that's unacceptably terrible play.

    We can put part of the blame on the coaches but it's still pathetic individual performance from Wilson.


    Although it's not fair to blame it all on Russell, he's also ranked dead last amongst starting quarterbacks on 3rd down completion percentage, completing just 35.1% of his passes:

    https://www.footballdb.com/statistics/n ... rt=passpct
    RiverDog
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  • Tokadub wrote:

    Go to 14:10 into that youtube video and see the startling data proving Wilson is the worst QB in the league in a statistical category known as "How Quarterbacks have performed when expected to pass in 2021".

    Wilson is DEAD LAST IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE FOR PLAYS WHEN THE QB IS EXPECTED TO PASS IN 2021!

    If he continues like that he could very well not make the hall of fame, that's unacceptably terrible play.

    We can put part of the blame on the coaches but it's still pathetic individual performance from Wilson.


    As usual you don't know what you're talking about, you're one of a group of Russ Haters that have been muted over the years, but now have slithered back in with your venomous posts. I still remember those ridiculous RUSS IS TOO SHORT!! posts that kept making its way onto this board.

    So any chance you get at trashing Russ is one you grab gleefully, ignoring the obvious points that we have awful pass protection, poor play calling, an inadequate running game, receivers who drop passes that are put right in their hands, and silly penalties that kill drives. But hey, if makes you feel better to insist it's all on Russ, go ahead. Scream and yell about how RUSS IS THE PROBLEM!! if that makes you feel better.
    Tusc2000
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  • Tusc2000 wrote:
    Tokadub wrote:

    Go to 14:10 into that youtube video and see the startling data proving Wilson is the worst QB in the league in a statistical category known as "How Quarterbacks have performed when expected to pass in 2021".

    Wilson is DEAD LAST IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE FOR PLAYS WHEN THE QB IS EXPECTED TO PASS IN 2021!

    If he continues like that he could very well not make the hall of fame, that's unacceptably terrible play.

    We can put part of the blame on the coaches but it's still pathetic individual performance from Wilson.


    As usual you don't know what you're talking about, you're one of a group of Russ Haters that have been muted over the years, but now have slithered back in with your venomous posts. I still remember those ridiculous RUSS IS TOO SHORT!! posts that kept making its way onto this board.

    So any chance you get at trashing Russ is one you grab gleefully, ignoring the obvious points that we have awful pass protection, poor play calling, an inadequate running game, receivers who drop passes that are put right in their hands, and silly penalties that kill drives. But hey, if makes you feel better to insist it's all on Russ, go ahead. Scream and yell about how RUSS IS THE PROBLEM!! if that makes you feel better.

    Russ is too short to do some things other QB's can.
    Mr."Unlimited is Limited"open your eyes.
    The legs that hid most of his issues
    no longer do so.
    IndyHawk
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  • Tusc2000 wrote:
    Tokadub wrote:

    Go to 14:10 into that youtube video and see the startling data proving Wilson is the worst QB in the league in a statistical category known as "How Quarterbacks have performed when expected to pass in 2021".

    Wilson is DEAD LAST IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE FOR PLAYS WHEN THE QB IS EXPECTED TO PASS IN 2021!

    If he continues like that he could very well not make the hall of fame, that's unacceptably terrible play.

    We can put part of the blame on the coaches but it's still pathetic individual performance from Wilson.


    As usual you don't know what you're talking about, you're one of a group of Russ Haters that have been muted over the years, but now have slithered back in with your venomous posts. I still remember those ridiculous RUSS IS TOO SHORT!! posts that kept making its way onto this board.

    So any chance you get at trashing Russ is one you grab gleefully, ignoring the obvious points that we have awful pass protection, poor play calling, an inadequate running game, receivers who drop passes that are put right in their hands, and silly penalties that kill drives. But hey, if makes you feel better to insist it's all on Russ, go ahead. Scream and yell about how RUSS IS THE PROBLEM!! if that makes you feel better.



    What made me feel better is foeing the morons. I don't have to read their bs. There not real fans anyway. Can't be a real fan whe you revel in one of your players struggling.
    John63
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  • Here's are only 4 former NFL players with 9 ProBowls who have been retired for 6 or more years and who aren't in the HoF. Everyone with 10 or more is in. Most of those in the HoF have fewer ProBowl appearances.

    Wilson has 8 ProBowls in 9 years. Short of something non-football related happening he's in, but if he retired after this season he might have to wait a few years once he's eligible.
    flv
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  • John63 wrote:
    Tusc2000 wrote:
    Tokadub wrote:

    Go to 14:10 into that youtube video and see the startling data proving Wilson is the worst QB in the league in a statistical category known as "How Quarterbacks have performed when expected to pass in 2021".

    Wilson is DEAD LAST IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE FOR PLAYS WHEN THE QB IS EXPECTED TO PASS IN 2021!

    If he continues like that he could very well not make the hall of fame, that's unacceptably terrible play.

    We can put part of the blame on the coaches but it's still pathetic individual performance from Wilson.


    As usual you don't know what you're talking about, you're one of a group of Russ Haters that have been muted over the years, but now have slithered back in with your venomous posts. I still remember those ridiculous RUSS IS TOO SHORT!! posts that kept making its way onto this board.

    So any chance you get at trashing Russ is one you grab gleefully, ignoring the obvious points that we have awful pass protection, poor play calling, an inadequate running game, receivers who drop passes that are put right in their hands, and silly penalties that kill drives. But hey, if makes you feel better to insist it's all on Russ, go ahead. Scream and yell about how RUSS IS THE PROBLEM!! if that makes you feel better.



    What made me feel better is foeing the morons. I don't have to read their bs. There not real fans anyway. Can't be a real fan whe you revel in one of your players struggling.


    This is pathetic, now you're the only type of Fan that's real because everyone else isn't doing fell**** on Russells pen15, anyone that has a view of him having issues is a Moron, very few are reveling in this, most are looking at the big picture, Petes age, the lack of resources going forward, lack of draft capital going forward, assets we have that could turn the team around faster in a rebuild.

    You know football stuff that isn't Russell Wilson exclusively.

    Now I know you Foe almost everyone that disagrees with you so you won't read this, but just a statement of your obsession and how you become intolerable of anyone having a different view of Wilson then you.
    chris98251
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