Ok time for some reality

It's completely obvious that Russ is having some accuracy issues I saw it several times in the game... I also saw him throw deep when the middle was wide open so Keasley theory is still happening. at this point i'm unsure why...

But... all this talk about Russ giving up and Russ doesn't care anymore and Russ is a total joke that's all BS...

The missed two-point conversion was not because Russ made a bad decision the ball just sailed on him wide right so give me a little bit of a break and STOP dogging on Russ... Yes, he needs to make more adjustment but the truth is EVEN if he doesn't want to be here anymore which is a total reach, he is not playing like crap for that reason... so save it...Give the guy the respect he has earned... he might not be playing well right now but that doesn't mean he is a douche bag so stop talking about him that way... he has earned that respect..

It's obvious that Russell's hand is not right... it's obvious that he is trying really hard and it's not happening for him...

as far as the D is concerned this IS a legit unit... its amazing to me they played as well as they did with the amount of time they were on the field (stat guys you're on)

Jamal Adams IS making big plays and earning his paycheck... unfortunately the O is not producing. also, this trade is going to make things look like the Hawks screwed up when the jets get a top ten pick. the unfortunate truth is not even the doubters would have predicted that Russ was going to get hurt and the Hawks would have the dismal record they have now.

To be effective in a balanced O the Run game needs to be working and it's not... again they can't get the first down on 3rd and short with the run game... they don't have the big bruising back to do it with.


Also Give the WFT D some credit they played very well... it's ok to give those guys some credit.

It's been a very difficult season and all Seahawk fans are down right now... just try to be respectful I'm not saying don't give your opinion... Yes, definitely do but just have some class and do it respectfully because truthfully I don't want to read that sh!T... Ill see you anaimals in a couple of days after the board calms down...

LTH

3-8

4-13.

Russ sucks. Pete is a moron. I still don't have Waldron figured out.

I love them for what they've done, but I can't give respect right now for the plays and decisions being made.

Its no longer about the team, its about Russ' disdain for Pete and degrading pocket presence and field vision, and Pete's inexcusable decisions and inability to change.

Together they've made this team a laughing stock. So, respectfully, F them.

That's about as real as it gets.

LTH":1hdmo95i said:

It's completely obvious that Russ is having some accuracy issues I saw it several times in the game... I also saw him throw deep when the middle was wide open so Keasley theory is still happening. at this point i'm unsure why...

But... all this talk about Russ giving up and Russ doesn't care anymore and Russ is a total joke that's all BS...

The missed two-point conversion was not because Russ made a bad decision the ball just sailed on him wide right so give me a little bit of a break and STOP dogging on Russ... Yes, he needs to make more adjustment but the truth is EVEN if he doesn't want to be here anymore which is a total reach, he is not playing like crap for that reason... so save it...Give the guy the respect he has earned... he might not be playing well right now but that doesn't mean he is a douche bag so stop talking about him that way... he has earned that respect..

It's obvious that Russell's hand is not right... it's obvious that he is trying really hard and it's not happening for him...

as far as the D is concerned this IS a legit unit... its amazing to me they played as well as they did with the amount of time they were on the field (stat guys you're on)

Jamal Adams IS making big plays and earning his paycheck... unfortunately the O is not producing. also, this trade is going to make things look like the Hawks screwed up when the jets get a top ten pick. the unfortunate truth is not even the doubters would have predicted that Russ was going to get hurt and the Hawks would have the dismal record they have now.

To be effective in a balanced O the Run game needs to be working and it's not... again they can't get the first down on 3rd and short with the run game... they don't have the big bruising back to do it with.


Also Give the WFT D some credit they played very well... it's ok to give those guys some credit.

It's been a very difficult season and all Seahawk fans are down right now... just try to be respectful I'm not saying don't give your opinion... Yes, definitely do but just have some class and do it respectfully because truthfully I don't want to read that sh!T... Ill see you anaimals in a couple of days after the board calms down...

LTH

Click to expand...

Some good points here. Admittedly I am one of the ones that commented that it feels like RW has "given up".
If we still feel like RW is still "all-in" with his preparing and giving it everything he's got - how about this then....
"RW has given up on the team and at this point it's all about himself."

Wilson is what he has always been. Waldon and the offensive scheme and talent are the problems in my opinion.

Wilson can still win any game he is in if you give him a strong running game. You need to get back to basics. Clean out the whole offensive coaching staff. Overpay for the best Oline coach and run game coordinator you can find. Clean out the RB room behind Carson and bring in depth and talent. DK wont make this team better with a 20 mil contract. Spend the money and picks on OL and RB.Go back to scramble drill.

When a driver is given the keys to a Ferrari and cant beat a Ford Fiesta around the track with it, you can blame the car, or the guy behind the wheel. And after 10 laps, he's going to get frustrated and maybe look like Russ.

Shane Waldron said pretty plainly that his offense is predicated on and demands that the QB make quick reads and get the ball out in rhythm to the right guy. Anticipation is required to do that and a sharp, nuanced understanding of coverages and tendencies.

I think the look of 'giving up' is finally the look of defeat at the typical plays that have been his 'goto's ' only working 24% of the time (if we're lucky) and the offense relying on him now to do the thing he's just not good at to be on schedule and in rhythm. And now defenses seeing the struggle and compounding things immensley.

I think this season has been an experiment at seeing what Russ can do in the new system and until recently he's been given the latitude to do what he wants - which is why we've seen the same old plays he always hits on. The last 5 games he's played (starting with the first half of the 9ers game) have seen more of Waldron's book, and specifically in the last 3, the throws to the TE's, but still not the plays that work off of multiple simple reads and anticipation type throws. The plays that have been most successful have mostly been Russ's old kit - PA. We stall when Russ has to make a couple of reads and quick throws - I think many of these are Waldron's calls.

This year, Russ asked for the one thing that he cant do in an effort to either distract from the deficiencies he knows he has or because of overconfidence born out of just playing Russ ball on the only team that would let him do it (and a coach that was often happy for the results).

Russ's play has never been about timing and complex reads and that's whats made him so divisive around here historically. Sacks have in some cases been because the line has failed, but have also often been because plays dont function as they should because the tendency is to make the first read, maybe the 2nd, and if they arent WIDE open, the ball being held too long or the scramble drill starting. In the past, his scrambles are whats put him in HOF conversations. But they werent always necessary.

If you have a guy that hasnt made his living on x's and o's and anticipation, its probably not wise to go out and get a coordinator whos entire game is predicated on it. If anything, you make things easier and reduce the pressure for the offense to HAVE to work on timing and nuanced QB calls and play - which is what this entire offense was about when we were most effective.

Russ asked for a Ferrari. Russ has never shown the ability to drive one. Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Prescott, Stafford (barely) run those kind of offenses because they are wired that way. Russ wants to be in that crowd because he has the big plays, the TD's, the TD/INT ratio, the high completion rate.

But you can get to a high TD / INT rate and completion % because you're and ace distribution the ball quickly and always find the open guy with laser precision...

Or you can get there by NEVER throwing the ball if it being contested is in question beyond a 50/50 big play ball to your playmaker. Holding the ball and waiting until someone is finally free, or just taking a sack if you cant find the 2nd or 3rd read or dont get the ball out quickly.

Russ is struggling to do either. He's defeated.

LTH":16yggicr said:

The missed two-point conversion was not because Russ made a bad decision the ball just sailed on him wide right so give me a little bit of a break and STOP dogging on Russ...

LTH

Click to expand...

1. Russ did make a bad decision on the 2 pt conversion. He had DK with one on one coverage to the corner of the endzone. A much higher throw percentage than throwing into triple coverage in the middle...........and he threw the ball late, which allowed the defender to make the play.

2. Russ deserves ALL the smoke this year, he's stunk. He stunk before the injury, and he's even worse now. Pete even said it last night, and again this morning. Guy's are open, Waldron's calling good games, but Russ isn't making the correct throws.

Doug Baldwin and other OG Hawk's called this crap years ago, no one holds Russ accountable, including most of the people on this board like you.

When you pay your QB 35M+ to be a franchise elite QB, there is no excuses. He needs to play like it, or you need to find another QB who can.

Enough already with the Wilson coddling. He stinks.

Sgt. Largent":1ncd38oi said:

LTH":1ncd38oi said:

The missed two-point conversion was not because Russ made a bad decision the ball just sailed on him wide right so give me a little bit of a break and STOP dogging on Russ...

LTH

Click to expand...

1. Russ did make a bad decision on the 2 pt conversion. He had DK with one on one coverage to the corner of the endzone. A much higher throw percentage than throwing into triple coverage in the middle...........and he threw the ball late, which allowed the defender to make the play.

2. Russ deserves ALL the smoke this year, he's stunk. He stunk before the injury, and he's even worse now. Pete even said it last night, and again this morning. Guy's are open, Waldron's calling good games, but Russ isn't making the correct throws.

Doug Baldwin and other OG Hawk's called this crap years ago, no one holds Russ accountable, including most of the people on this board like you.

When you pay your QB 35M+ to be a franchise elite QB, there is no excuses. He needs to play like it, or you need to find another QB who can.

Enough already with the Wilson coddling. He stinks.

Click to expand...

If you put him in a different jersey last night, different name on the back, different team, the resounding opinion would be that the guy isnt good. He's built his rep off of a remarkable bag of tricks in the past that allowed him to NOT have to make complex reads and hit anticipation throws. The bag is now empty and he never developed the skill to do anything but what he's always done.

The 2pt conversion would have been good if the ball was there as Swain hit the window. Russ had all day and took all day to throw the ball. Then threw it badly. And yeah, he also could have gone elsewhere.

Sgt. Largent":2beybcse said:

LTH":2beybcse said:

The missed two-point conversion was not because Russ made a bad decision the ball just sailed on him wide right so give me a little bit of a break and STOP dogging on Russ...

LTH

Click to expand...

1. Russ did make a bad decision on the 2 pt conversion. He had DK with one on one coverage to the corner of the endzone. A much higher throw percentage than throwing into triple coverage in the middle...........and he threw the ball late, which allowed the defender to make the play.

2. Russ deserves ALL the smoke this year, he's stunk. He stunk before the injury, and he's even worse now. Pete even said it last night, and again this morning. Guy's are open, Waldron's calling good games, but Russ isn't making the correct throws.

Doug Baldwin and other OG Hawk's called this crap years ago, no one holds Russ accountable, including most of the people on this board like you.

When you pay your QB 35M+ to be a franchise elite QB, there is no excuses. He needs to play like it, or you need to find another QB who can.

Enough already with the Wilson coddling. He stinks.

Click to expand...

I'm not coddling Russ... I have held him accountable in plenty of past posts especially in the past 2-3 weeks. but the facts are the facts. If you go back and look at the tape you will see that he is having some accuracy issues. He missed a bunch of open receivers because his accuracy is not there. I looked at that 3-point conversion play closely Metcalf was covered. When Russ was throwing the ball the way he usually throws the ball he would have threaded the needle to Swain and they would have won the game. Your right he was late throwing the ball on that play but I'm right when i say under a normal circumstance he would have made that play with his accuracy...

I'm not making excuses for Russ it's a fact he is not right...but it's also a fact that he is not seeing open receivers or he is not choosing to throw to them over the middle.

I think Carroll is in a tough situation...You're a fan you can stand back and second guess every flipping decision Carroll makes after the fact... you can dog his a$$ and call both those guys a bum. you don't care about Russ or Carroll all you want is a win...if they don't win you call them a nasty name and hope they move on...ok fine it's a business and a tough business at that.

What happens if Carroll takes your point of view and says ok Russ stinks and trades him...every other NFL team see's the same thing u do so now Russ aint worth 2-3 first round picks he is worth a second-round pick because the guy is a piece of sh!t right? so you trade him and his hand heals and he goes on to win the super bowl with another team.

So now Carroll is a piece of shit for trading a SB winning QB, when it was your idea in the first place... see how this works? Ooooh but you wouldn't trade him for a second-round pick? Why? I'll tell you why, because he is not a piece of sh!t!

My point is you got to have some patience and let Carroll work it out... We really don't know what's happening inside that relationship... When a coach has a player of Wilsons caliber you got to work the issue and when it becomes time that Carroll can't work the issue any more then that's when you trade Russ. We don't know when that is because we don't have a good understanding of what's going on in that relationship. Yeah, there are some issues, it's been a tough season and not too many coaches could lose their starting QB for several games and their starting RB for the year and have a winning season...

Russ didn't stink at the beginning of the season he had a 71% completion rate as john63 pointed out. but yes, he had some issues with his reads as keasley45 has eloquently pointed out...maybe Carroll will move Russ at the end of the season if he gets the right deal maybe not...

a lot of people on this board just need to let it play out without freaking out and let's see what happens...


LTH

Sgt. Largent":jgv294ks said:

LTH":jgv294ks said:

The missed two-point conversion was not because Russ made a bad decision the ball just sailed on him wide right so give me a little bit of a break and STOP dogging on Russ...

LTH

Click to expand...

1. Russ did make a bad decision on the 2 pt conversion. He had DK with one on one coverage to the corner of the endzone. A much higher throw percentage than throwing into triple coverage in the middle...........and he threw the ball late, which allowed the defender to make the play.

2. Russ deserves ALL the smoke this year, he's stunk. He stunk before the injury, and he's even worse now. Pete even said it last night, and again this morning. Guy's are open, Waldron's calling good games, but Russ isn't making the correct throws.

Doug Baldwin and other OG Hawk's called this crap years ago, no one holds Russ accountable, including most of the people on this board like you.

When you pay your QB 35M+ to be a franchise elite QB, there is no excuses. He needs to play like it, or you need to find another QB who can.

Enough already with the Wilson coddling. He stinks.

Click to expand...

He stinks in this system. Fixed it for ya. Let's see:

Roger's
Brady
Mahomes
Lamar Jackson
Dak

Or any top tier QB come in behind this craptastic line and this ridiculously predictable offense and do better than he has over the last 5, 6 years.

Sgt. Largent":1vkzwasd said:

LTH":1vkzwasd said:

The missed two-point conversion was not because Russ made a bad decision the ball just sailed on him wide right so give me a little bit of a break and STOP dogging on Russ...

LTH

Click to expand...

1. Russ did make a bad decision on the 2 pt conversion. He had DK with one on one coverage to the corner of the endzone. A much higher throw percentage than throwing into triple coverage in the middle...........and he threw the ball late, which allowed the defender to make the play.

2. Russ deserves ALL the smoke this year, he's stunk. He stunk before the injury, and he's even worse now. Pete even said it last night, and again this morning. Guy's are open, Waldron's calling good games, but Russ isn't making the correct throws.

Doug Baldwin and other OG Hawk's called this crap years ago, no one holds Russ accountable, including most of the people on this board like you.

When you pay your QB 35M+ to be a franchise elite QB, there is no excuses. He needs to play like it, or you need to find another QB who can.

Enough already with the Wilson coddling. He stinks.

Click to expand...

^^^^^^^^^^^
ON ICE

The 2-point conversion wasn't missed because of accuracy, the ball was about two seconds late. The play worked exactly as designed, and Russ bungled the read.

The crosser (DK) is a decoy, designed to take everyone with him, and open up the middle of the field for the trailer. And it worked beautifully. But Russ took so long to deliver the ball that Fuller had time to think "heyyy, something might be up here." If I was the coordinator or offensive player, I'd be so mad. It was sooo open.

A dose of reality is that Ethan Pocic or Kyle Fuller stink and why anyone thought Fuller at LG was a good idea should be relieved of their duties immediately. I've seen orange construction cones do a better job of blocking people getting through.

If there weren't 3-4 WFT defenders in the backfield each play, maybe they could have had done something. The game was lost in the trenches - DL/OL. The Seahawk OL/DL didn't show up for this one. The WFT were down to their 3rd string center and they still pushed the Seahawks around.

Maybe PC/JS should invest in orange cones to replace the OL. Cheaper and more effective -

Tical21":2tfmvcg0 said:

The 2-point conversion wasn't missed because of accuracy, the ball was about two seconds late. The play worked exactly as designed, and Russ bungled the read.

The crosser (DK) is a decoy, designed to take everyone with him, and open up the middle of the field for the trailer. And it worked beautifully. But Russ took so long to deliver the ball that Fuller had time to think "heyyy, something might be up here." If I was the coordinator or offensive player, I'd be so mad. It was sooo open.

Click to expand...

YUP

keasley45":3v0xfcj6 said:

Tical21":3v0xfcj6 said:

The 2-point conversion wasn't missed because of accuracy, the ball was about two seconds late. The play worked exactly as designed, and Russ bungled the read.

The crosser (DK) is a decoy, designed to take everyone with him, and open up the middle of the field for the trailer. And it worked beautifully. But Russ took so long to deliver the ball that Fuller had time to think "heyyy, something might be up here." If I was the coordinator or offensive player, I'd be so mad. It was sooo open.

Click to expand...

YUP

Click to expand...

I'm not going to argue that the ball was not late because there was a one second window where Swain was wide open. but I am going to argue that the ball sailed on Wilson and there was an accuracy issue. seemed like Wilson was looking for Metcalf first and when he wasn't open, he turned to Swain and was late... that's just the way I saw it I do believe a healthy Wilson would have threaded the needle to Swain... I've seen him do it before... but Tical21 point is correct.

but again, I have always said it's a mixture of the two issues. Anybody who says there isn't an accuracy issue is wrong and that is evident from all the easy throws he missed over the last few games.


LTH

Russ's lacking in accuracy is no doubt due to his finger injury,
Russ's struggle on decision making could due to learning a new system,
All the claim about Russ being selfish, or mentally given up is not believable, because Russ has his legacy to protect.

The only way to help Russ now is to sit him.

toffee":31g1eptu said:

Russ's lacking in accuracy is no doubt due to his finger injury,
Russ's struggle on decision making could due to learning a new system,
All the claim about Russ being selfish, or mentally given up is not believable, because Russ has his legacy to protect.

The only way to help Russ now is to sit him.

Click to expand...

I suppose that Russ could be struggling because of the new system but I don't think that's all of it because this goes into all of last year and I suspect probably longer than that. I would pay to hear Schotty's opinion on the subject..

I'm on the wall on if Carroll should sit Russ at this point... what might the ramifications be for sitting Russ? loss in trade value? I would have to think that Carroll completely understands the Keasley45 theory maybe he doesn't agree with it I don't know or maybe he thinks there are other factors involved... but I would be shocked if he didn't see it and I would be shocked if he hadn't seen it for a long time. there is a lot we don't know...

but at the same time I do think there is an arguement to be made for sitting Russ..i'm just not sure what the ramifications for sitting Russ might be...


LTH

Here's reality:

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/sea ... 1638292012

Quite frankly the D doesn't look so hot either. Can't stop the run, can't defend the pass. Cannot get off the field on 3rd down.
Add that to a completely toothless O and you have a 3-8 record with worse to come.

Either way, stick a fork in this year's team they're done.

To the above inquiry, we have seen so very little from Waldron to think he is anything but incapable.

jammerhawk":h3b9vk2q said:

To the above inquiry, we have seen so very little from Waldron to think he is anything but incapable.

Click to expand...

I'd say three offensive coordinators in four years is a big reason to maybe consider it's not the coordinator, it's the QB.

Even Pete said it this morning, the throws were there but they weren't going where they should. That right there is an indictment on Russell, and not the coordinator or playcalling/schemes.

Russell's broken, I'm not going to hold that against Waldron. I have no idea if he's good or not, but this small sample size with a broken shook QB isn't enough evidence for me to say he's bad, or he needs to go.

He's running McVay's offense, a very successful offense. Nothing's changed from LA to here except the dude under center.

jammerhawk":oc9kynko said:

Here's reality:

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/sea ... 1638292012

Quite frankly the D doesn't look so hot either. Can't stop the run, can't defend the pass. Cannot get off the field on 3rd down.
Add that to a completely toothless O and you have a 3-8 record with worse to come.

Either way, stick a fork in this year's team they're done.

To the above inquiry, we have seen so very little from Waldron to think he is anything but incapable.

Click to expand...

I'm not saying this D is fantastic across the board but they don't give up many points and they are pretty dang tough in the red zone as of this point my problem is not with the D. the D played well enough to win the last several games in my opinion but your opinion may be different... it's not like the bucs had more success stopping the WFT this is a hot team right now... Bottom line the D put the o in position to win the game what more could you ask from the unit ... the D is not the reason this team is 3-8


LTH