This isn't a bad team

A controversial opinion considering the sea of negativity that's around here at the moment, but watching the game last night, I didn't see a bad team at all.

The defence has been affected by injuries but they played well, yet again. The defence now compared to at the start of the season has been night and day, and whilst I've always been a critic of KNJ, I think credit is due there. This is a hard team to score points against and we've only once had more than 20 points scored against us since week 7. That will win many games.

As for the offence, yeah, it was bad but there's a difference between being bad when you have a bad co-ordinator or an unskilled QB, and bad when you have an injured Pro Bowl QB. Could we have won last night playing Geno? Maybe, I don't think there's much difference between an injured Wilson and Geno, but the reality is, Wilson isn't going to be injured for the rest of the season. He's getting better at throwing the ball and when he does return to 100%, this offence will get back to putting big numbers on the board.

This team isn't at it's best but I firmly believe it'll come together. It'll be too late this season I think, although I think the next 5 games are all favourable, but whether the Seahawks make the playoffs or not, they'll end the season as a formidable team. By the end of the year, the Seahawks will be one of the form teams in the NFL.

The whole philosophy of this team is built on a run first offense, but we aren't running well and that makes everything else ineffective. We're using a 3rd string running back who's nicked up, and we have limited depth behand him. The O-line stinks and can't pass block to save its life, and.Wilson rarely had any time to sit back and throw comfortably. The pressure was often coming from a 4-man rush, which meant they had 7 back in pass coverage. Even when Russ did have some time, his misfires were jarringly off. So we can't run the ball, we can;t pass the ball, and we keep going three and out, which puts the D on the field way too much, and eventually they get tired and give up points.

No, we're not a bad team, but a systemic failure to build a good O-line over the years is finally coming back to haunt us. The pieces no longer fit together well, and be it age or injury, Russ is no longer able to pull a rabbit out of his hat and bail us out. He gave it a shot last night, but we dug too big a hole. Poor drafting, poor talent evaluation, poor coaching hires, it's all hitting now.

The only good thing about having a bad year is you get a high draft pick, but that's up in smoke for 2022 due to more bad decisions by team leadership. So no, we're not a bad team, but we're sure playing like one.

Meh, the D is what the score and record say it is. They've improved from a second year of a historically bad start but they still lose the time of possession b over 2 to 1 way too often. I completely understand that ToP is largely affected by the utterly inept offense keeping them on the field and that compounds itself in in the 4th quarter, but giving up loooong drives and being carved up by a career backup like McCoy is still on them. Tonight I was impressed by their 3rd down ability late in the game but they still couldn't get off the field for the most part.

The D has improved and a lot of the players have improved greatly but it's still a huge mess that contributes half of the problem in losing the ToP by a very wide margin. No scapegoating the offense or the refs for their failure over and over and over to stop opposing offenses from rolling them over at will most of the time.

your right they arent bad, they are awful.

Did you watch the offensive line, even with 4 man pressure it seemed like they were bringing blitz packages with how quick they got to Russ. We have no 3rd receiver, beyond zero running game which also coincides with the horrendous line play. Play calling schemes where they cant run slants or anything under 10 yards for some reason besides the bubble screen to a TE.

The defense has played ok. But the philosophy is horrible. This bend dont break mentality just doesnt work with the way the offense is constructed. You cant just give up one long drive after another and hope to keep the other team to a field goal when your offense cant score any points. If you have a dynamic offense this approach can work. But right now the offense cant stay on the field, the defense intentionally plays long drives, which when you put them together you really have a disaster. How many times can they give up a 7 yard slant and have the guy run an additional 5 yards for a first down. Ken Norton needs to go. Pete needs to go. Russ may be re-energized under a whole new regime.

I agree, I think there's talent on this team.

I think several factors have conspired that have resulted in a 3-8 team.

If I skip over the coaching and QB conversation for now.

- Father time seems like he's come knocking for Dunlap and D Brown at the same time, and he's trying to take Wags too. Dunlap and Brown were meant to be the anchors of our pass rush and o-line respectively, outside of the QB they are the two biggest positions.

- If your o-line isn't playing well it's best to have a bruising RB that can be a factor. Shame Carson just can't stay healthy.

hinton":3nx19xox said:

I agree, I think there's talent on this team.

I think several factors have conspired that have resulted in a 3-8 team.

If I skip over the coaching and QB conversation for now.

- Father time seems like he's come knocking for Dunlap and D Brown at the same time, and he's trying to take Wags too. Dunlap and Brown were meant to be the anchors of our pass rush and o-line respectively, outside of the QB they are the two biggest positions.

- If your o-line isn't playing well it's best to have a bruising RB that can be a factor. Shame Carson just can't stay healthy.

Click to expand...

Agree with this. I think Wags, Dunlap and Brown can still play at a high level here. The problem is that on D, Wags and Dunlap are much better players when they have help on the interior. With the exception of occassional flashes on the interior D-line, the group has no pop and it pushes an undo burden on the LB and allows O-lines to double up our outside rush.

The offensive line... I think the o-line improves first and foremost with an offense in general that has an identity, a rhythm, and has serviceable play from the QB within the context of the playbook. The plays need to be run and evaluated based on their actual effectiveness and then adjustments made accordingly. Cant emphasize this enough. It builds confidence across the unit, momentum, and ultimately success. If you dont have it and every play is a roll of the dice because theyre essentially scrapped 1.5 seconds after the snap, the game becomes much more difficult to play. And if youre team is built to run, the o-0line in particular, then the plays need to revolve around that fact. Get a playcalling rhythm based on the run. Then get the ball from the QB's hand to the WR quickly with easy, varied options and reads.

keasley45":25c9rt97 said:

hinton":25c9rt97 said:

I agree, I think there's talent on this team.

I think several factors have conspired that have resulted in a 3-8 team.

If I skip over the coaching and QB conversation for now.

- Father time seems like he's come knocking for Dunlap and D Brown at the same time, and he's trying to take Wags too. Dunlap and Brown were meant to be the anchors of our pass rush and o-line respectively, outside of the QB they are the two biggest positions.

- If your o-line isn't playing well it's best to have a bruising RB that can be a factor. Shame Carson just can't stay healthy.

Click to expand...

Agree with this. I think Wags, Dunlap and Brown can still play at a high level here. The problem is that on D, Wags and Dunlap are much better players when they have help on the interior. With the exception of occassional flashes on the interior D-line, the group has no pop and it pushes an undo burden on the LB and allows O-lines to double up our outside rush.

The offensive line... I think the o-line improves first and foremost with an offense in general that has an identity, a rhythm, and has serviceable play from the QB within the context of the playbook. The plays need to be run and evaluated based on their actual effectiveness and then adjustments made accordingly. Cant emphasize this enough. It builds confidence across the unit, momentum, and ultimately success. If you dont have it and every play is a roll of the dice because theyre essentially scrapped 1.5 seconds after the snap, the game becomes much more difficult to play. And if youre team is built to run, the o-0line in particular, then the plays need to revolve around that fact. Get a playcalling rhythm based on the run. Then get the ball from the QB's hand to the WR quickly with easy, varied options and reads.

Click to expand...

They are missing Reed Al Woods is not a pass rusher so much.

LTH":fg9ar8lt said:

keasley45":fg9ar8lt said:

hinton":fg9ar8lt said:

I agree, I think there's talent on this team.

I think several factors have conspired that have resulted in a 3-8 team.

If I skip over the coaching and QB conversation for now.

- Father time seems like he's come knocking for Dunlap and D Brown at the same time, and he's trying to take Wags too. Dunlap and Brown were meant to be the anchors of our pass rush and o-line respectively, outside of the QB they are the two biggest positions.

- If your o-line isn't playing well it's best to have a bruising RB that can be a factor. Shame Carson just can't stay healthy.

Click to expand...

Agree with this. I think Wags, Dunlap and Brown can still play at a high level here. The problem is that on D, Wags and Dunlap are much better players when they have help on the interior. With the exception of occassional flashes on the interior D-line, the group has no pop and it pushes an undo burden on the LB and allows O-lines to double up our outside rush.

The offensive line... I think the o-line improves first and foremost with an offense in general that has an identity, a rhythm, and has serviceable play from the QB within the context of the playbook. The plays need to be run and evaluated based on their actual effectiveness and then adjustments made accordingly. Cant emphasize this enough. It builds confidence across the unit, momentum, and ultimately success. If you dont have it and every play is a roll of the dice because theyre essentially scrapped 1.5 seconds after the snap, the game becomes much more difficult to play. And if youre team is built to run, the o-0line in particular, then the plays need to revolve around that fact. Get a playcalling rhythm based on the run. Then get the ball from the QB's hand to the WR quickly with easy, varied options and reads.

Click to expand...

g a
They are missing Reed Al Woods is not a pass rusher so much.

Click to expand...

Jarron Reed was a hot and cold player. His pass rush wasn't that great outside of one year. He got exploited really hard in the running game. He was really a one trick player.

As for our teams struggles:

We're all too willing to abandon the run. Running backs need to get into a rhythm and we're not giving Collin's the chance to get into that rhythm.

Russell Wilson is a huge reason behind our struggles. Even before his injury he was repeating the same mistakes as last year. He wasn't taking the layups and going for the deep balls. Teams would adjust with Tampa-2 and Wilson foolishly kept launching it deep.

Coaching has been an issue. Carroll has made many poor in game decisions this season. He is also not giving our struggling QB any help. When Hasselbeck went through a rough stretch, Holmgren would reign him in. He'd simplify the offense and focus on getting Hasselbeck into a rhythm again. We need to do that with Wilson. For example, one way we can do this is get him going on roll outs. I haven't seen a proper rollout in awhile. Give Wilson plays that are quick developing and short. Pass plays that are high percentage. For example, slants to DK Metcalf, or hell, even plays designed to get guys like Metcalf in space. Work the TE's more as outlets, etc. Instead, we're approaching the game like we always do. Same offense, same struggles, a worse QB since Wilson is going through a funk. We also need to vary the tempo. Carroll seems to have no concept of tempo on offense.

Defense. Yes we are doing well in points, but generally how this works is teams drive down the field, and when the field is shortened they have a hard time scoring. Matt Hasselbeck touched on this. Our defense has a hard time getting off the field. In addition to Wilson struggling on third downs, it makes for a toxic combo.

There is a lot of disarray on this team at the moment. On paper we're definitely better than our record, but I think coaching and in general poor QB play has pushed us over the edge.

I'm picking up what you are laying down OP.

:2thumbs:

I agree. This team is so very close — had Wilson not been injured we would likely still be competing — unfortunately it seems for him it’s more than an injury now — he sounded devastated about losing his starting game streak, as if that was more important than anything else. Maybe he’ll get it together to finish strong.

Lions, Jaguars and Texans are the only teams with a worse record than us. Lions, Texans and Jaguars.

Tical21":2zemahks said:

Lions, Jaguars and Texans are the only teams with a worse record than us. Lions, Texans and Jaguars.

Click to expand...

So you're saying we have a chance.

We are a sad combination of older pros, younger bad drafting picks, and the typical high profile trade bust.

Take those ingredients, amplify it with bad coaches and key injuries, and what you have is what we see.

Rebuild. That starts with the HC. PC has to go

I don't see the current Seahawks offense putting up big numbers even when Wilson is fully healthy. The rushing attack is bottom 25% in NFL talent and the passing attack is stale. The defense isn't going to do well in a lopsided time of possession battle. This isn't a bad team but it needs big plays and an early lead in order to win games.

2021 Seahawks- 5 consecutive 3 and outs = 2X

2021 other 31 NFL teams - 5 consecutive 3 and outs = 0X

Grahamhawker said:

2021 Seahawks- 5 consecutive 3 and outs = 2X

2021 other 31 NFL teams - 5 consecutive 3 and outs = 0X

Click to expand...

But for most of 2021 season, we had a Hall of fame QB. Now we have two outcasts,

Sorry. Love the team. I’ll watch consecutive 0-17 seasons if that’s what it comes to.

But, this team IS bad. I don’t think we’re competitive again until PC leaves the building. There is a glimmer of hope that they (PC & JS) can work their magic again but, I have my doubts.

Gotta give credit where credit is due tho…great draft imo. Perhaps all it takes now is patience. Lots and lots of patience.

The sea of negativity will subside if they win. That’s all it takes. Moral victories may help but only a little. Blowouts and looking like the Washington Generals vs the Globetrotters will add a tidal wave of negativity.

based on last years play without RW, losing BW and some vets, hiring KNJs asst as DC and the rancid preseason play and the lack of getting an NFL average QB in the off-season I don’t see any issue with getting a head start. At least ticket prices will go down and I Can make some money selling head-sized paper bags outside the stadium. Free use of the sharpies included.