SHUT DOWN RUSS

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Welshers

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How have they not done this yet. Its blindingly obvious. He's playing hurt and the season is lost. Let him get time to recover and get a new mentality. This well help his trade value and avoid risking injury. He could use a break for his mental space if he returns anyway. Love the guy but shut him down for the season.
 
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Welshers":xqtlq7sm said:
How have they not done this yet. Its blindingly obvious. He's playing hurt and the season is lost. Let him get time to recover and get a new mentality. This well help his trade value and avoid risking injury. He could use a break for his mental space if he returns anyway. Love the guy but shut him down for the season.


It’s possible that he’s hurt - but it’s also possible it is something more mental than physical which looks likely. If it’s mental then shutting him down for the season doesn’t make sense - addressing whatever is happening in his head out in the open could help more than just having him sit the rest of the season.
 

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Pete shouldn't have let him play in the first place. A coach like Bill B. would have sat him once he sailed a couple of throws in the GB game.
 

Sgt. Largent

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Welshers":waoan9eo said:
How have they not done this yet. Its blindingly obvious. He's playing hurt and the season is lost. Let him get time to recover and get a new mentality. This well help his trade value and avoid risking injury. He could use a break for his mental space if he returns anyway. Love the guy but shut him down for the season.

I don't understand how shutting down Russell helps his trade value.

Shutting him down now assures the bottom of the market for trade value, injured, shook and performing terribly.

Your only chance at increasing his trade value is to keep playing him and hope as the injury improves, so does his play. Cause right now? You're assuring yourself the bottom of the market. You NEED him to improve and put together good games to show he's healing and back to at least 75% of his old self.
 

keasley45

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Sgt. Largent":8i492cyb said:
Welshers":8i492cyb said:
How have they not done this yet. Its blindingly obvious. He's playing hurt and the season is lost. Let him get time to recover and get a new mentality. This well help his trade value and avoid risking injury. He could use a break for his mental space if he returns anyway. Love the guy but shut him down for the season.

I don't understand how shutting down Russell helps his trade value.

Shutting him down now assures the bottom of the market for trade value, injured, shook and performing terribly.

Your only chance at increasing his trade value is to keep playing him and hope as the injury improves, so does his play. Cause right now? You're assuring yourself the bottom of the market. You NEED him to improve and put together good games to show he's healing and back to at least 75% of his old self.

I dont agree with that. The prevailing opinion right now is that Russ's play is due to his injury. If you shut him down, The stink fest that was the last several weeks now gets attributed to how he came back to soon, but the real Russ is the Russ we knew before the finger.

If he's allowed to play, logic dictates that his finger is getting better every week. If his finger gets better and he's still not making good reads, still not feeling the pocket well, and still struggling the way he's been, well then you have to attribute the play to something else. And the rumblings are already getting louder that he's just not playing good ball, not making good reads, and contributing to the offense's struggles. Shutting him down eliminates that possibility.

The other reason to shut him down now, especially if the tea leaves say he's likely gone after this year (and where last year he was passively threatening he wanted out, i thin this year the Hawks actively shop him), you dont want him hurt anymore than he has been. So sitting him now assures that whoever gets him next gets a 100% healthy Wilson, as opposed to one that was maybe still sailing balls and nursing a finger or god forbid recovering from some other injury he might endure between now and the end of the year.
 

Sgt. Largent

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keasley45":2tfxjv4p said:
Sgt. Largent":2tfxjv4p said:
Welshers":2tfxjv4p said:
How have they not done this yet. Its blindingly obvious. He's playing hurt and the season is lost. Let him get time to recover and get a new mentality. This well help his trade value and avoid risking injury. He could use a break for his mental space if he returns anyway. Love the guy but shut him down for the season.

I don't understand how shutting down Russell helps his trade value.

Shutting him down now assures the bottom of the market for trade value, injured, shook and performing terribly.

Your only chance at increasing his trade value is to keep playing him and hope as the injury improves, so does his play. Cause right now? You're assuring yourself the bottom of the market. You NEED him to improve and put together good games to show he's healing and back to at least 75% of his old self.

I dont agree with that. The prevailing opinion right now is that Russ's play is due to his injury. If you shut him down, The stink fest that was the last several weeks now gets attributed to how he came back to soon, but the real Russ is the Russ we knew before the finger.

If he's allowed to play, logic dictates that his finger is getting better every week. If his finger gets better and he's still not making good reads, still not feeling the pocket well, and still struggling the way he's been, well then you have to attribute the play to something else. And the rumblings are already getting louder that he's just not playing good ball, not making good reads, and contributing to the offense's struggles. Shutting him down eliminates that possibility.

The other reason to shut him down now, especially if the tea leaves say he's likely gone after this year (and where last year he was passively threatening he wanted out, i thin this year the Hawks actively shop him), you dont want him hurt anymore than he has been. So sitting him now assures that whoever gets him next gets a 100% healthy Wilson, as opposed to one that was maybe still sailing balls and nursing a finger or god forbid recovering from some other injury he might endure between now and the end of the year.

I haven't seen one person say that the prevailing opinion right now is Russ's play is due to his injury. Those people include the media, Pete and Russ himself.

They all say while his injury is a factor (balls sailing, inaccuracy), there's other things going on right now with Russ. He's shook, he's lost, he's rusty, whatever you want to call it. He's not seeing open receivers, he's not throwing to the right receivers, he's not checking protection correctly, he's hesitant, etc.



If it was his finger, Pete would be considering shutting him down......and again all that does is show other GM's what we're all seeing, a broken Russell not worth giving up 2-3 first rounders and a package of players for come January and February.
 

CalgaryFan05

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I do know Geno actually does progressive reads and can see the middle of the field.

Other than that? Dust off the list of teams Russ gave everyone in the offseason - see if there's still any takers ;)

Although honestly I think that his list of teams will expand in about 14 weeks ;)

Russ has been a bully for a while now. Does whatever the hell he wants, with no consequences. Ask Pete. Jeez. Ask DK in the past few games.

Doesn't work and play well with others. Shut him down.

The funny thing? Winning out? Impossible with Russ. With Geno and a pissed off Offense and Defense, playing for pride and future contracts, without worrying about what Russ thinks about ya on a day to day basis? Well, I think I'd like that better and I think they might just have a slim chance.

He's poisoned the well, IMO. Purposely. Plan your next photo shoot. And see if you can work in a clinic on 'how to see the middle of the field and available receivers. Unlimited? Unlimited downside at this point. Jackass.

Ya, I'm bitter. Suck it.
 

Sgt. Largent

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Either way, this is a dumb worthless conversation.

It's not happening. Pete's not going to shut Russ down. He's going to do exactly what I'm saying out of respect for his long tenured QB...............allow him the opportunity to work his way out of whatever's going on.
 

keasley45

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I'd also say that sitting him allows the Hawks to get an extended look at Geno. Not because they think he's the future, but just to see how badly they need a guy tomorrow. If they trade Wilson, are they trading him for a QB or picks and players at other positions? If Geno looks like he can be serviceable for a year as a bridge, then they have the freedom to pursue trade targets at any area of need on the team. If he's not and the dude just cant hold the position down and give the team a fighting chance and finish .500 or better, then maybe you go aggressively for a QB as part of the trade package.

And honestly, at this point, Pete needs to see what he has in Waldron. I'm sure they can look at the tape like we can and see whats working and whats not, beyond the results that Russ nets, but I'd think you'd still want to see how Shane would do game in and game out, play to play if he's the one 100% responsible for developing the plan and dictating the plays.

I think the games that Russ sat were informative. Against the Steelers and Saints, i think the plan was wayyy too conservative to lighten the load on Geno. Against the Jaguars, it felt like the Hawks called a passing attack that was much more diverse and from where i sat, was maybe more indicative of what Shane can do... and although i admit it was a limited sample and against a struggling team, Geno completed 15 straight passes and spread the ball around very well. Something we havent seen since. That's hard to do against anyone in the NFL - ask the Bills who played the Jags the following week.
 

keasley45

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Sgt. Largent":2d529g1j said:
keasley45":2d529g1j said:
Sgt. Largent":2d529g1j said:
Welshers":2d529g1j said:
How have they not done this yet. Its blindingly obvious. He's playing hurt and the season is lost. Let him get time to recover and get a new mentality. This well help his trade value and avoid risking injury. He could use a break for his mental space if he returns anyway. Love the guy but shut him down for the season.

I don't understand how shutting down Russell helps his trade value.

Shutting him down now assures the bottom of the market for trade value, injured, shook and performing terribly.

Your only chance at increasing his trade value is to keep playing him and hope as the injury improves, so does his play. Cause right now? You're assuring yourself the bottom of the market. You NEED him to improve and put together good games to show he's healing and back to at least 75% of his old self.

I dont agree with that. The prevailing opinion right now is that Russ's play is due to his injury. If you shut him down, The stink fest that was the last several weeks now gets attributed to how he came back to soon, but the real Russ is the Russ we knew before the finger.

If he's allowed to play, logic dictates that his finger is getting better every week. If his finger gets better and he's still not making good reads, still not feeling the pocket well, and still struggling the way he's been, well then you have to attribute the play to something else. And the rumblings are already getting louder that he's just not playing good ball, not making good reads, and contributing to the offense's struggles. Shutting him down eliminates that possibility.

The other reason to shut him down now, especially if the tea leaves say he's likely gone after this year (and where last year he was passively threatening he wanted out, i thin this year the Hawks actively shop him), you dont want him hurt anymore than he has been. So sitting him now assures that whoever gets him next gets a 100% healthy Wilson, as opposed to one that was maybe still sailing balls and nursing a finger or god forbid recovering from some other injury he might endure between now and the end of the year.

I haven't seen one person say that the prevailing opinion right now is Russ's play is due to his injury. Those people include the media, Pete and Russ himself.

They all say while his injury is a factor (balls sailing, inaccuracy), there's other things going on right now with Russ. He's shook, he's lost, he's rusty, whatever you want to call it. He's not seeing open receivers, he's not throwing to the right receivers, he's not checking protection correctly, he's hesitant, etc.



If it was his finger, Pete would be considering shutting him down......and again all that does is show other GM's what we're all seeing, a broken Russell not worth giving up 2-3 first rounders and a package of players for come January and February.

I'm not talking about the forum.
 

keasley45

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keasley45":qgyfaetw said:
Sgt. Largent":qgyfaetw said:
keasley45":qgyfaetw said:
Sgt. Largent":qgyfaetw said:
I don't understand how shutting down Russell helps his trade value.

Shutting him down now assures the bottom of the market for trade value, injured, shook and performing terribly.

Your only chance at increasing his trade value is to keep playing him and hope as the injury improves, so does his play. Cause right now? You're assuring yourself the bottom of the market. You NEED him to improve and put together good games to show he's healing and back to at least 75% of his old self.

I dont agree with that. The prevailing opinion right now is that Russ's play is due to his injury. If you shut him down, The stink fest that was the last several weeks now gets attributed to how he came back to soon, but the real Russ is the Russ we knew before the finger.

If he's allowed to play, logic dictates that his finger is getting better every week. If his finger gets better and he's still not making good reads, still not feeling the pocket well, and still struggling the way he's been, well then you have to attribute the play to something else. And the rumblings are already getting louder that he's just not playing good ball, not making good reads, and contributing to the offense's struggles. Shutting him down eliminates that possibility.

The other reason to shut him down now, especially if the tea leaves say he's likely gone after this year (and where last year he was passively threatening he wanted out, i thin this year the Hawks actively shop him), you dont want him hurt anymore than he has been. So sitting him now assures that whoever gets him next gets a 100% healthy Wilson, as opposed to one that was maybe still sailing balls and nursing a finger or god forbid recovering from some other injury he might endure between now and the end of the year.

I haven't seen one person say that the prevailing opinion right now is Russ's play is due to his injury. Those people include the media, Pete and Russ himself.

They all say while his injury is a factor (balls sailing, inaccuracy), there's other things going on right now with Russ. He's shook, he's lost, he's rusty, whatever you want to call it. He's not seeing open receivers, he's not throwing to the right receivers, he's not checking protection correctly, he's hesitant, etc.



If it was his finger, Pete would be considering shutting him down......and again all that does is show other GM's what we're all seeing, a broken Russell not worth giving up 2-3 first rounders and a package of players for come January and February.

I'm not talking about the forum.

Still, right now there's something other than his inability to do X to hang it al onl. If he plays the rest of the year and stinks, there's nothing else to attribute it to but him.

And most of what i hear listening to the media is that he's still rusty and the finger HAS to be bothering him, regardless of what he says.
 

CalgaryFan05

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Sgt. Largent":1ie4l1ys said:
Welshers":1ie4l1ys said:
How have they not done this yet. Its blindingly obvious. He's playing hurt and the season is lost. Let him get time to recover and get a new mentality. This well help his trade value and avoid risking injury. He could use a break for his mental space if he returns anyway. Love the guy but shut him down for the season.

I don't understand how shutting down Russell helps his trade value.

Shutting him down now assures the bottom of the market for trade value, injured, shook and performing terribly.

Your only chance at increasing his trade value is to keep playing him and hope as the injury improves, so does his play. Cause right now? You're assuring yourself the bottom of the market. You NEED him to improve and put together good games to show he's healing and back to at least 75% of his old self.

Ya - EVERY other GM and HC knows exactly what's going on with Russ. It's hit all the mainstream media at this point. Jeez - was reading a rando TSN type article yesterday that detailed the Russ shortcomings in pretty good detail.

His trade value is what it is, and will depend more on another team's needs more than putting lipstick on this situation - IMO.

No use in trying to prop him up and wizard of oz style: "don't look behind the curtain!"

Curtain's been pulled back already......
 

xray

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This topic has been discussed to death lately . If you want Wilson to ride the pine...text him . Maybe he'll listen to you .
 

keasley45

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ddores":2z3xe3n8 said:
I do know Geno actually does progressive reads and can see the middle of the field.

Other than that? Dust off the list of teams Russ gave everyone in the offseason - see if there's still any takers ;)

Although honestly I think that his list of teams will expand in about 14 weeks ;)

Russ has been a bully for a while now. Does whatever the hell he wants, with no consequences. Ask Pete. Jeez. Ask DK in the past few games.

Doesn't work and play well with others. Shut him down.

The funny thing? Winning out? Impossible with Russ. With Geno and a pissed off Offense and Defense, playing for pride and future contracts, without worrying about what Russ thinks about ya on a day to day basis? Well, I think I'd like that better and I think they might just have a slim chance.

He's poisoned the well, IMO. Purposely. Plan your next photo shoot. And see if you can work in a clinic on 'how to see the middle of the field and available receivers. Unlimited? Unlimited downside at this point. Jackass.

Ya, I'm bitter. Suck it.

mellow the bitterness and i agree with this too. It feels like this team is divided with Russ. I dont see how it cant be with how hes played and all the drama of the last year. And the thing is, being down by 14 at the half with Geno whos also maybe rusty and not as naturally gifted might feel different to the guys. Why? Because if its with Russ, it will likely be because the same old crap is happening without any hope for it getting better. Crap that the team has to be tired of. If Geno is off on a pass here and there but he's going to the right place with the ball, making the right reads, thats going to give his guys some hope that if they're where they are supposed to be on a play that the hard work they put in to get there wasnt in vain and that Geno still has the potential to get better. Russ is Russ.

Sitting him allows the team to MAYBE end the season on a positive note because there's a reset that happens. It might not yield a bucket full of wins but maybe it wont feel hopeless - playing for a QB that isnt geting it done because hes doing it his way and is leaving anyway (Russ) vs one who is playing 'by the book' and thus on the same page as the others, even if he stumbles.
 

chris98251

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Wilson could have caught Ric Mirer syndrome, he has talked about getting hit too much, but you also look how he is throwing as of late, finger a bit of the issue, but his mechanics as well, throwing spread legged and flat footed etc. You can get develop bad habits compensating for an injury, and then it may take time to identify what you have changed doing so and then correct it since you now have a muscle memory issue to get back into.
 

Sgt. Largent

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keasley45":3purz5c0 said:
And most of what i hear listening to the media is that he's still rusty and the finger HAS to be bothering him, regardless of what he says.

That is the prevailing opinion, that Russ's finger is still bothering him, thus the accuracy and passes sailing he normally would make.

But that's not even half of what's wrong with him.......and THAT part is the part he can try to work out through the rest of the season, and hopefully increase his trade value.

There's no upside I can see to shutting him down now, other than you're telling every other GM in the league Russell Wilson's broken and even on a desperate 3-8 team we've given up on him.

Not even discussing what that does to Russell and his relationship with the Seahawk's organization, it will all but kill whatever options you have this off season to try and move forward with Russell if that's their plan.
 

keasley45

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I guess it just depends on whether you think he can fix his shortcomings and improve over the next 5 weeks.

I dont see it.
 

CalgaryFan05

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keasley45":2w7lx9cs said:
I guess it just depends on whether you think he can fix his shortcomings and improve over the next 5 weeks.

I dont see it.

Me either, and arrogance can't be 'fixed'.

Hate to say it.
 

LTH

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keasley45":3ir3305v said:
I guess it just depends on whether you think he can fix his shortcomings and improve over the next 5 weeks.

I dont see it.


It's a really difficult choice IMO... If you bench Wilson, then you send him a very strong message that you have lost confidence in him that's a bad thing.

on the flip side if you bench Wilson maybe the competition pulls him out of the funk.


from my perception, I don't see Carroll trading Wilson. Carroll is into his five-year contract and probably will retire after that. Wilson is his best chance to get back to the SB...as there isn't much chance of finding someone better.

that being said I think Carroll believes he can work out of this. Not sure how long Wilson has been an issue. I assume that winning might have masked Wilson's read issues. Not sure if Carroll's ego is an issue here as well. maybe it is a legit criticism that Carroll was ineffective in dealing with the problem for years. I can't imagine that he would not have understood there was a read issue with Wilson and winning was the factor that made him in effective in dealing with the problem. because if you're winning than it's not that much of a problem until the league figures it out which it seems the case for the last couple of years.

Clearly there are more things going on than what we know about...It just feels to me there are other things going on this year.


LTH
 

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Sgt. Largent":kld5eseb said:
keasley45":kld5eseb said:
And most of what i hear listening to the media is that he's still rusty and the finger HAS to be bothering him, regardless of what he says.

That is the prevailing opinion, that Russ's finger is still bothering him, thus the accuracy and passes sailing he normally would make.

But that's not even half of what's wrong with him.......and THAT part is the part he can try to work out through the rest of the season, and hopefully increase his trade value.

There's no upside I can see to shutting him down now, other than you're telling every other GM in the league Russell Wilson's broken and even on a desperate 3-8 team we've given up on him.

Not even discussing what that does to Russell and his relationship with the Seahawk's organization, it will all but kill whatever options you have this off season to try and move forward with Russell if that's their plan.
^ This ^... I believe that there's a lot more going on than just the injury to his finger, and sitting him, when he obviously wants to play/work his way through his problems out there, would only tell him that you've quit on him.
I'm trying to look at all this from Pete's perspective...He knows that Wilson has given the Seahawks their best chance of winning or at least keeping them in the conversation, ever since he arrived on the scene, now, it has to be eating at him that all of his QB's struggles aren't all on Wilson alone, that's why he's reaching out to finding a RB to help him through his quandary.
The Seahawks do not have a decent run game, so Russ feels that it's ALL on his shoulders, he's overcompensating, and the Defenses are just going to keep keying on him to scramble his throwing lanes & cut off his escape routes.
He has a whole off-season to get back to 100% physically, but he feels as though he needs the game time to try & figure out the other problems with his game, and even though I BELIEVE that he could find the answers on watching hours & hours of game film, with special attention with his own play in particular, but I doubt his competitive spirit would let him get away doing that.
Pete knows that Russell Wilson helped to put the Seahawks over the top, and I believe he's likely going to stand by him through all his struggles, and not throw in the towel.
Just my 2 cents.
 
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