Will Norton be gone in 2022

hawks85 · Jan 6, 2022

Do you guys think Norton is toast after the season is over? My answer is yes.

James in PA · Jan 6, 2022

Pete or no Pete, hopefully KNJ is gone. Long overdue. Nice guy, good position coach, but not DC material.

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oldhawkfan · Jan 6, 2022

If he could start off the year coaching like he ends the year he might be worth keeping. Unfortunately he takes half a season to figure out what he’s doing and getting his players ready. Too many early season losses do to defensive lapses.

Sgt. Largent · Jan 6, 2022

He should be gone, but if Pete's back I doubt he's fired.

Three offensive coordinators in four years for an offense that's been perennially in the top 10 in the league for a decade, yet when our defense has been average to downright terrible for long stretches of each season for years, Norton remains?

Makes no sense, other than blind loyalty.

SoulfishHawk · Jan 6, 2022

this right here ^^^^

flv · Jan 6, 2022

If Norton is coming back then why change anything/anyone else? Schneider, Carroll, Waldron, and Wilson have stronger claims for getting another chance. If none of them go it'll be a similar roster next year, but older and slower. Fair or not Norton should be the first person out of the door on Monday. The more interesting question is who informs him of the decision.

AROS · Jan 6, 2022

Blind loyalty about sums it up. It's the only thing that explains why he is still our DC all these years given the massive inconsistencies we have seen from his defenses.

#USCloyalty

Sgt. Largent · Jan 6, 2022

Aros":38o7kle9 said:
Blind loyalty about sums it up. It's the only thing that explains why he is still our DC all these years given the massive inconsistencies we have seen from his defenses.

#USCloyalty

People say Norton just runs Pete's schemes, which is probably true, and probably why Pete hasn't fired him.

But even if that's true, then Norton isn't coaching, installing and developing his defensive players well enough within Pete's scheme and direction.

Not all Norton's fault, Pete and John have drafted and acquired players for him terribly. But that's how coaching works. You get blamed and fired. But not Norton.

AgentDib · Jan 6, 2022

The defense remains a personnel issue. All of the stuff that people complain about on here is the result of the coaching staff trying to cover for a very weak defensive roster. The reason why the focus is rightfully on the offense is that it is the unit that is supposed to be good. Posters who expect this bargain bin defensive roster to be good are living in a fairy dreamland.

The salary cap was $183 million this season. Here's the defense sorted by snap count in the last game.

Jordyn Brooks - 2.7m
Ryan Neal - 920k
DJ Reed - 920k
Quandre Diggs - 3.6m
Cody Barton -1.0m
Ugo Amadi - 1.0m
Rasheem Green - 1.1m
John Reid - 780k
Darrell Taylor - 1.5m
Poona Ford - 2.6m
Al Woods - 2.4m
Kerry Hyder - 2.0m
Michael Jackson - 200k
Benson Mayowa - 3.8m
LJ Collier - 2.9m
Bryan Mone - 850k
Alton Robinson - 860k
Carlos Dunlap - 2.9m

That being said, I have no problem with firing Norton if Pete thinks there's a better option out there. But look how wrong posters here have been over the years about Gus Bradley and then Dan Quinn. Even recently there was that nonsense about Flowers playing better in press coverage, and now he has barely seen the field in the last five games for the Bengals. Pete runs everything and all of the misguided opinions about him micromanaging the offense are actually true when it comes to the defense.

Sgt. Largent · Jan 6, 2022

AgentDib":1r42cghn said:
The defense remains a personnel issue. All of the stuff that people complain about on here is the result of the coaching staff trying to cover for a very weak defensive roster. The reason why the focus is rightfully on the offense is that it is the unit that is supposed to be good. Posters who expect this bargain bin defensive roster to be good are living in a fairy dreamland.

The salary cap was $183 million this season. Here's the defense sorted by snap count in the last game.

Jordyn Brooks - 2.7m
Ryan Neal - 920k
DJ Reed - 920k
Quandre Diggs - 3.6m
Cody Barton -1.0m
Ugo Amadi - 1.0m
Rasheem Green - 1.1m
John Reid - 780k
Darrell Taylor - 1.5m
Poona Ford - 2.6m
Al Woods - 2.4m
Kerry Hyder - 2.0m
Michael Jackson - 200k
Benson Mayowa - 3.8m
LJ Collier - 2.9m
Bryan Mone - 850k
Alton Robinson - 860k
Carlos Dunlap - 2.9m

While I agree with you, I do think Pete's antiquated schemes are very easy for most offensive coaches and coordinators to attack. Too much base cover 3 with the corners playing off.

Lots of examples around the league with coordinators and coaches with average roster talent playing more complex schemes with disguising. Belichick did a masterful job last year with covid opt outs and a severe lack of talent of playing very good defense, ending up with a top 10 defense with very few stars.

So yes, our defensive talent is not good. But that's only half the equation, and the other half of the equation with predictability, communication lapses and scheme hasn't been good either. Why does it take half a season ever year for our coaches and players to figure it out and stop sucking?

justafan · Jan 6, 2022

AgentDib":1gyjdbxu said:
The defense remains a personnel issue. All of the stuff that people complain about on here is the result of the coaching staff trying to cover for a very weak defensive roster. The reason why the focus is rightfully on the offense is that it is the unit that is supposed to be good. Posters who expect this bargain bin defensive roster to be good are living in a fairy dreamland.

The salary cap was $183 million this season. Here's the defense sorted by snap count in the last game.

Jordyn Brooks - 2.7m
Ryan Neal - 920k
DJ Reed - 920k
Quandre Diggs - 3.6m
Cody Barton -1.0m
Ugo Amadi - 1.0m
Rasheem Green - 1.1m
John Reid - 780k
Darrell Taylor - 1.5m
Poona Ford - 2.6m
Al Woods - 2.4m
Kerry Hyder - 2.0m
Michael Jackson - 200k
Benson Mayowa - 3.8m
LJ Collier - 2.9m
Bryan Mone - 850k
Alton Robinson - 860k
Carlos Dunlap - 2.9m

That being said, I have no problem with firing Norton if Pete thinks there's a better option out there. But look how wrong posters here have been over the years about Gus Bradley and then Dan Quinn. Even recently there was that nonsense about Flowers playing better in press coverage, and now he has barely seen the field in the last five games for the Bengals. Pete runs everything and all of the misguided opinions about him micromanaging the offense are actually true when it comes to the defense.

Good post. Its not just Nortons fault, but we have as close to a blank slate as you get in this business and nobodys job should be safe. I dont know if anything will change but you can't fire the whole D so you fire the coach. Let the next DC have a little input on players.

GeekHawk · Jan 6, 2022

How many of those players are still on their rookie deals? Since those salaries are dictated by the union contract, the pay has no relation to the ability.

edit - That being said, we can only hope that KNJ is fired, and replaced with a cardboard cut-out of him.

AgentDib · Jan 6, 2022

Sgt. Largent":36ac8gwj said:
Lots of examples around the league with coordinators and coaches with average roster talent playing more complex schemes with disguising. Belichick did a masterful job last year with covid opt outs and a severe lack of talent of playing very good defense, ending up with a top 10 defense with very few stars.

Any examples come to mind of teams with absolute bottom level defensive talent? Belichick and Brady are such outliers in my book that you should hire them if you can, but otherwise it's fruitless to compare to them.

I watch a lot of NFL games and in my view this defense is the least talented unit in the NFL. If there was an expansion draft tomorrow I wouldn't protect a single defensive player who's going to play in our upcoming game, and likely only Tre Brown from the list of players who are out. There may be individual things that people don't like about the coaching, but on balance it has been enormously successful for us to achieve any positive results on defense at all.

Sgt. Largent · Jan 6, 2022

AgentDib":8j1meyoa said:
Sgt. Largent":8j1meyoa said:

Lots of examples around the league with coordinators and coaches with average roster talent playing more complex schemes with disguising. Belichick did a masterful job last year with covid opt outs and a severe lack of talent of playing very good defense, ending up with a top 10 defense with very few stars.

Click to expand...

Any examples come to mind of teams with absolute bottom level defensive talent? Belichick and Brady are such outliers in my book that you should hire them if you can, but otherwise it's fruitless to compare to them.

I watch a lot of NFL games and in my view this defense is the least talented unit in the NFL. If there was an expansion draft tomorrow I wouldn't protect a single defensive player who's going to play in our upcoming game, and likely only Tre Brown from the list of players who are out. There may be individual things that people don't like about the coaching, but on balance it has been enormously successful for us to achieve any positive results on defense at all.

I just gave you one, Belichick and what he did with his defense last year with a bad offensive team with an over the hill QB.

The Ravens are another, Harbaugh always gets the most out of his defense. They had what, one defensive player last year go to the Pro Bowl? #2 defensive team in the NFL in 2020.

Coaching matters, seems like we're always fighting against Pete's tendencies and outdated schemes to figure it out, and it takes way too long now into the season.

pittpnthrs · Jan 6, 2022

LTH isnt going to take people calling this defense bad lightly, although they are.

Pete pretty much admitted Norton would still be here when he said he didnt see any reason for changes. If Jody calls Pete into her office in the offseason and scolds him, Norton might be the next fall guy, but other than that, expect him back next season.

JayhawkMike · Jan 6, 2022

Funny how no one is responsible and no one gets fired.

The defense sucks so fire the coordinator BUT he is just running PCs BS defense so blame PC but wait they don’t have talent so let’s blame JS who in turn reports to PC so fire PC. Oh hell, let’s bring everyone back and win one or less playoff games next year. Screw the Super Bowl. Didn’t want it anyway right?

olyfan63 · Jan 8, 2022

AgentDib":2zuskow5 said:
I watch a lot of NFL games and in my view this defense is the least talented unit in the NFL. If there was an expansion draft tomorrow I wouldn't protect a single defensive player who's going to play in our upcoming game, and likely only Tre Brown from the list of players who are out. There may be individual things that people don't like about the coaching, but on balance it has been enormously successful for us to achieve any positive results on defense at all.

Interesting take. I can't really disagree much, except that I'd protect Jordyn Brooks, and Darrell Taylor from an expansion draft. Diggs, depending on contract status and if we can keep him at a reasonable price.

WmHBonney · Jan 8, 2022

Norton won't be gone unless he gets a HC gig somewhere and we all know that isn't going to happen.

hawkfan68 · Jan 8, 2022

If the Seahawks move on from KNJ and Denver decides to fire Vic Fangio, then Fangio may be a good candidate for DC with the Seahawks. Odds of this happening are slim. I think Fangio's philosophy might fit well with what PC wants to do on defense too.
Here's an article on Fangio's defensive scheme -
https://weeklyspiral.com/2021/09/02/why-the-vic-fangio-scheme-is-sweeping-the-nfl/

xray · Jan 8, 2022

Norton must have something on Carroll . I'm guessing he has some pics of Carroll and Jody .

Will Norton be gone in 2022

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