Too Little Too Late? Perhaps, But...

AROS

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I for one can hold my head high today as a Seattle Seahawks fan. Sure, they fell well short of their and our expectations this year. 7-10 is not a record any one of us would have predicted heading into this season coming off a 12-4 division-winning season. We can spend countless hours (and we do) discussing the whys and hows of it all but what I want to celebrate today is a team that clearly has pride and didn't ever once quit on each other or their coach.

The Lions is one thing. But beating a sound divisional opponent who gave it their all against us because a win meant they would secure the division title, and yet we still beat them? That's solid. That's something to build off of. I'm not suggesting keeping the band together exactly. Yes, there will still be changes in the offseason but that's nothing new.

I do believe we still have the talent and foundation - with the appropriate offseason moves - to be right back in the thick of things next year.

It was a challenging year for us all. Players, coaches, fans... But there's always next year and I have hope for a better season in 2022.
 

Sgt. Largent

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Nothing's changed for me.

If Russell can stay healthy the Hawks can scratch and claw for wildcard spots with 2nd and 3rd place finishes in our own division.

If he can't stay healthy, more 7-10's and no playoff seasons.

So if fans are OK with this formula going forward, keep everyone together. I love Pete, I wish we could bottle his enthusiasm and formula's for culture and organization. But IMO if we want to set our sights higher to try to get back to more SB's? Pete isn't going to deliver that anymore.
 
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AROS

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I don't quite share your level of pessimism over Pete and that's perfectly okay. I DO think he still has the ability to get back to the SB with the right talent in place. Will he? Who knows? Maybe you are right and we do need to get rid of him and find fresh blood at the helm. But like the draft, there's simply no guarantees. To me, the focus should be focusing on both the DL and OL, give Shane another year to get this offense gelling in the philosophy he is trying to bring, get a new DC and let's see what 2022 looks like.
 

Sgt. Largent

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Aros":3fmjp78w said:
I don't quite share your level of pessimism over Pete and that's perfectly okay. I DO think he still has the ability to get back to the SB with the right talent in place. Will he? Who knows? Maybe you are right and we do need to get rid of him and find fresh blood at the helm. But like the draft, there's simply no guarantees. To me, the focus should be focusing on both the DL and OL, give Shane another year to get this offense gelling in the philosophy he is trying to bring, get a new DC and let's see what 2022 looks like.

My pessimism isn't with Pete particularly, it's his dysfunctional relationship with Russell and how that stagnates and causes unnecessary stretches of seasons and playoff games of the offense not playing well, when with the talent we have? shouldn't happen.

Can Russell ever get to the self realization point in his career when he realizes that Pete IS using him correctly, and not think the offense needs to go through him?

That's the rub for me. It's not Pete particularly. I do think he can still win a SB. Just not with Russell if Russell's gonna Russell again this off season.

Which I think he will.
 

pittpnthrs

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Sgt. Largent":zmr9xd4w said:
Nothing's changed for me.

If Russell can stay healthy the Hawks can scratch and claw for wildcard spots with 2nd and 3rd place finishes in our own division.

If he can't stay healthy, more 7-10's and no playoff seasons.

So if fans are OK with this formula going forward, keep everyone together. I love Pete, I wish we could bottle his enthusiasm and formula's for culture and organization. But IMO if we want to set our sights higher to try to get back to more SB's? Pete isn't going to deliver that anymore.

Same here. Moving forward with Pete Carroll is nothing more than a lesson in futility. Anything more than a Wildcard win in the post season is a pipe dream.
 

GaiusMarius

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Aros":29ohna17 said:
I don't quite share your level of pessimism over Pete and that's perfectly okay. I DO think he still has the ability to get back to the SB with the right talent in place. Will he? Who knows? Maybe you are right and we do need to get rid of him and find fresh blood at the helm. But like the draft, there's simply no guarantees. To me, the focus should be focusing on both the DL and OL, give Shane another year to get this offense gelling in the philosophy he is trying to bring, get a new DC and let's see what 2022 looks like.

You're correct that there are no guarantees. But then again with that thinking the Seahawks would be given Mora more of a chance. :D

I believe that we have seen enough of current management's performance. Nothing in recent performance (not just this year) shows the Seahawks peaking above making the playoffs (good!) with a quick exit (bad!). And that is with a healthy Wilson.

We can argue the reasons WHY that is, but I'd just step back and look at the data.

An additional point is that Carroll thinks we are close. Why? Because he is on the clock. He does not have years to work through a rebuild. This, more than the necessity (or lack thereof) is why he does not want that rebuild. Of course that is very poor logic and not good for team building. Where does that lead? To foolish, short-term decisions. That is best represented by the Jamal Adams trade.

I am very concerned that Carroll might try and pull off something similar this off season if left in control because we're "close".

The only hope we have is Wilson. Carroll wants to do the same thing again in a World War I mentality that this time over the trenches will be different. I'm less sure that Wilson does and he could force the issue with Allen.

If Wilson goes I do not see Carroll staying because...again...he does not want to work through a rebuild at 71.
 

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Sgt. Largent":9xqi105u said:
Nothing's changed for me.

If Russell can stay healthy the Hawks can scratch and claw for wildcard spots with 2nd and 3rd place finishes in our own division.

If he can't stay healthy, more 7-10's and no playoff seasons.

So if fans are OK with this formula going forward, keep everyone together. I love Pete, I wish we could bottle his enthusiasm and formula's for culture and organization. But IMO if we want to set our sights higher to try to get back to more SB's? Pete isn't going to deliver that anymore.

I'm not that down on the crew because if you look at why we lost, the outcome is pretty predictable.

We banked on having a more dynamic DLine. Losing Reed in FA I guarantee you was a shock and created a huge hole on the Dline. Then, losing Aldon also was a surprise and a loss. So they went into the season gambling on a Dline jelling and working and that never really happened. I also think Dunlap's foot injury hobbled him more than he let on.

On the backend, as soon as we got Tre Brown in the lineup and moved Reed to his natural side, the D looked completely different.

On offense, Russ getting hurt hobbled us. And before and after he came back, the insistence on passing as much as we did, took away a strength of our offense in our run game - we finished 3rd in the league this year at 5 ypc and were humming along at 4.6ypc + well before Penny went on his streak. So we literally threw into failure, by choice.
I think that was the most unfortunate thing about the season - the infighting and seeming rebellious play from the QB position. We won all of the games where we had a balanced attack and lost all but one when we passed more than we ran. That's a pretty glaring fact.

So if we get Tre, Jamal, and Quandre back on defense and add depth at CB and a star on the Dline, I think we come into the season much stronger than we finished the year. A silver lining from all of the injuries on D is our backups got a ton of valuable time as well, which will make the D Better too. I mean for Christs sake, even with the weak dline for most ofnthe year, we finished top 10 in scoring. It should be noted that that fact is also pretty close to unprecedented in the league. So if we fix the dline , how much better can we be than top 10?

On offense... fortify the line again and we are GTG in my opinion.

This year was hard, but if in the end it was what was necessary for Pete and Russ to get back on the same page, allowed our D to mature and grow confidence among the young guys, and established our run first identity again that maybe foregoes MVP talk in favor of Lombardi possibilities, then it will have been worth it. And shoot, if we start next year clicking in the run game the way we did this year, and Russ can be his normal efficient self and feast off of play action, I completely belive Waldron has enough X and O factor in his playbook to elevate the entire offense and maybe get Russ his MVP regardless.

I say all of that acknowledging it doesn't take into account free agency...
 

Sgt. Largent

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keasley45":2f4cc1zp said:
This year was hard, but if in the end it was what was necessary for Pete and Russ to get back on the same page, allowed our D to mature and grow confidence among the young guys, and established our run first identity again that maybe foregoes MVP talk in favor of Lombardi possibilities, then it will have been worth it. And shoot, if we start next year clicking in the run game the way we did this year, and Russ can be his normal efficient self and feast off of play action, I completely belive Waldron has enough X and O factor in his playbook to elevate the entire offense and maybe get Russ his MVP regardless.


Are Pete and Russ on the same page?

Why do I and so many others think we're all going to start hearing the Russell wants out rumors again.

I hope you're right, because IMO that's the true dysfunction of this team. But I need an entire off season of hearing nothing but Russell's happy and wants to play here for another 10 years to believe it......and not the nonsense we heard last off season and even over the past couple of months.
 

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Sgt. Largent":15dq5na8 said:
keasley45":15dq5na8 said:
This year was hard, but if in the end it was what was necessary for Pete and Russ to get back on the same page, allowed our D to mature and grow confidence among the young guys, and established our run first identity again that maybe foregoes MVP talk in favor of Lombardi possibilities, then it will have been worth it. And shoot, if we start next year clicking in the run game the way we did this year, and Russ can be his normal efficient self and feast off of play action, I completely belive Waldron has enough X and O factor in his playbook to elevate the entire offense and maybe get Russ his MVP regardless.


Are Pete and Russ on the same page?

Why do I and so many others think we're all going to start hearing the Russell wants out rumors again.

I hope you're right, because IMO that's the true dysfunction of this team. But I need an entire off season of hearing nothing but Russell's happy and wants to play here for another 10 years to believe it......and not the nonsense we heard last off season and even over the past couple of months.

That's all just clickbait...right? :lol:

I lost a lot of respect for Carroll when they gas lit everyone that of course everything was fine with Wilson and that the media had just made it all up.
 

keasley45

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Sgt. Largent":2yjrycj1 said:
keasley45":2yjrycj1 said:
This year was hard, but if in the end it was what was necessary for Pete and Russ to get back on the same page, allowed our D to mature and grow confidence among the young guys, and established our run first identity again that maybe foregoes MVP talk in favor of Lombardi possibilities, then it will have been worth it. And shoot, if we start next year clicking in the run game the way we did this year, and Russ can be his normal efficient self and feast off of play action, I completely belive Waldron has enough X and O factor in his playbook to elevate the entire offense and maybe get Russ his MVP regardless.


Are Pete and Russ on the same page?

Why do I and so many others think we're all going to start hearing the Russell wants out rumors again.

I hope you're right, because IMO that's the true dysfunction of this team. But I need an entire off season of hearing nothing but Russell's happy and wants to play here for another 10 years to believe it......and not the nonsense we heard last off season and even over the past couple of months.

I hope so. I'm not saying I think they are, because Russ's tantrum didn't start until after the Superbowl. And I think this year we suffered and lost because Pete took the route of letting Russ continue to tantrum this year instead of more forcefully checking the nonsense and the, selfish, passhappy approach that literally lost us games. If he starts crying again, I say they pull the plug. But given how much we suffered unnecessarily from just misguided play, I'm still optimistic about next season. Can we be as good with someone else under center playing a run first attack as we could with Russ complying and doing it? Probably not. But if he's going to do next year what he did this year and in 2020, we'd be better off going the hard road without him.
 

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GaiusMarius":3aktj13i said:
Sgt. Largent":3aktj13i said:
keasley45":3aktj13i said:
This year was hard, but if in the end it was what was necessary for Pete and Russ to get back on the same page, allowed our D to mature and grow confidence among the young guys, and established our run first identity again that maybe foregoes MVP talk in favor of Lombardi possibilities, then it will have been worth it. And shoot, if we start next year clicking in the run game the way we did this year, and Russ can be his normal efficient self and feast off of play action, I completely belive Waldron has enough X and O factor in his playbook to elevate the entire offense and maybe get Russ his MVP regardless.


Are Pete and Russ on the same page?

Why do I and so many others think we're all going to start hearing the Russell wants out rumors again.

I hope you're right, because IMO that's the true dysfunction of this team. But I need an entire off season of hearing nothing but Russell's happy and wants to play here for another 10 years to believe it......and not the nonsense we heard last off season and even over the past couple of months.

That's all just clickbait...right? :lol:

I lost a lot of respect for Carroll when they gas lit everyone that of course everything was fine with Wilson and that the media had just made it all up.

I think that was Pete's positive thinking and optimism. He just refused to feed the flames of discord. Had he said, yeah Russ is off and we aren't on the same page, from his perspective, that would have widened the gap. I think he was just keeping the door open for Russ to stop the BS whenever he was ready. He was essentially keeping family business in the family.

And hopefully what we saw the last few games was Russ coming back. Although it's not lost on me that not 21 days ago, Russ was defending throwing away a sure game securing field goal against the Bears. Things like that still give me a healthy degree of pause.
 

TheLegendOfBoom

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At the beginning of the season, I had this team at 11-6. At worst, 9-8. But 7 and 10.

I guess it can happen when you play ball these “one possession” games but it was bound to happen the way Seattle is predictable and cannot regularly beat playoff caliber teams.

Sometimes you need to lose in order to move forward in the right direction.
 

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Sgt. Largent":3cq2gczu said:
Aros":3cq2gczu said:
I don't quite share your level of pessimism over Pete and that's perfectly okay. I DO think he still has the ability to get back to the SB with the right talent in place. Will he? Who knows? Maybe you are right and we do need to get rid of him and find fresh blood at the helm. But like the draft, there's simply no guarantees. To me, the focus should be focusing on both the DL and OL, give Shane another year to get this offense gelling in the philosophy he is trying to bring, get a new DC and let's see what 2022 looks like.

My pessimism isn't with Pete particularly, it's his dysfunctional relationship with Russell and how that stagnates and causes unnecessary stretches of seasons and playoff games of the offense not playing well, when with the talent we have? shouldn't happen.

Can Russell ever get to the self realization point in his career when he realizes that Pete IS using him correctly, and not think the offense needs to go through him?

That's the rub for me. It's not Pete particularly. I do think he can still win a SB. Just not with Russell if Russell's gonna Russell again this off season.

Which I think he will.

Absolutely this.
 

keasley45

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Aircrew":1cmfe2lh said:
Sgt. Largent":1cmfe2lh said:
Aros":1cmfe2lh said:
I don't quite share your level of pessimism over Pete and that's perfectly okay. I DO think he still has the ability to get back to the SB with the right talent in place. Will he? Who knows? Maybe you are right and we do need to get rid of him and find fresh blood at the helm. But like the draft, there's simply no guarantees. To me, the focus should be focusing on both the DL and OL, give Shane another year to get this offense gelling in the philosophy he is trying to bring, get a new DC and let's see what 2022 looks like.

My pessimism isn't with Pete particularly, it's his dysfunctional relationship with Russell and how that stagnates and causes unnecessary stretches of seasons and playoff games of the offense not playing well, when with the talent we have? shouldn't happen.

Can Russell ever get to the self realization point in his career when he realizes that Pete IS using him correctly, and not think the offense needs to go through him?

That's the rub for me. It's not Pete particularly. I do think he can still win a SB. Just not with Russell if Russell's gonna Russell again this off season.

Which I think he will.

Absolutely this.

Yup
 

Sgt. Largent

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GaiusMarius":3hkhjl26 said:
Sgt. Largent":3hkhjl26 said:
keasley45":3hkhjl26 said:
This year was hard, but if in the end it was what was necessary for Pete and Russ to get back on the same page, allowed our D to mature and grow confidence among the young guys, and established our run first identity again that maybe foregoes MVP talk in favor of Lombardi possibilities, then it will have been worth it. And shoot, if we start next year clicking in the run game the way we did this year, and Russ can be his normal efficient self and feast off of play action, I completely belive Waldron has enough X and O factor in his playbook to elevate the entire offense and maybe get Russ his MVP regardless.


Are Pete and Russ on the same page?

Why do I and so many others think we're all going to start hearing the Russell wants out rumors again.

I hope you're right, because IMO that's the true dysfunction of this team. But I need an entire off season of hearing nothing but Russell's happy and wants to play here for another 10 years to believe it......and not the nonsense we heard last off season and even over the past couple of months.

That's all just clickbait...right? :lol:

I lost a lot of respect for Carroll when they gas lit everyone that of course everything was fine with Wilson and that the media had just made it all up.

Most definitely some of it is clickbait, but some of it from reliable sources and people who are in the inner circles of the team and media also know what's up.

So we shall see. Should be an interesting off season.
 

TAB420

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I would have guessed our record at 10-11 wins going into this season. But, if you would have told me that Russ would miss 4 weeks and would be rushed back (two weeks early in my opinion) early. 7-8 wins sounds about right.
 

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Well that is certainly one way to look at it.





Not sure I agree this shows any progress.

We will see what next year holds, to see if this indicates change or just more of the same.

Typically we have 1 game a year we lose that we have no business losing, and most people wouldn't think to predict we would. That would probably be the Bears game.

We also usually have 1 game a year that we look like a sure loss going in, and somehow we win. I was struggling to find that win this year - because we haven't really beaten anyone that nobody expected us to. This pretty much falls in that category though.

There was always that loss that few expected balanced by the win that most people were not expecting either.

Usually, that win came at the 3/4 mark, this one came at the end.

We will see next year though. But not sure I agree this a sign we are improving at all - but will be interested to see if that is incorrect.
 

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Aros":2ll33kvw said:
I for one can hold my head high today as a Seattle Seahawks fan. Sure, they fell well short of their and our expectations this year. 7-10 is not a record any one of us would have predicted heading into this season coming off a 12-4 division-winning season. We can spend countless hours (and we do) discussing the whys and hows of it all but what I want to celebrate today is a team that clearly has pride and didn't ever once quit on each other or their coach.

The Lions is one thing. But beating a sound divisional opponent who gave it their all against us because a win meant they would secure the division title, and yet we still beat them? That's solid. That's something to build off of. I'm not suggesting keeping the band together exactly. Yes, there will still be changes in the offseason but that's nothing new.

I do believe we still have the talent and foundation - with the appropriate offseason moves - to be right back in the thick of things next year.

It was a challenging year for us all. Players, coaches, fans... But there's always next year and I have hope for a better season in 2022.

Well said, my friend. GO SEAHAWKS !!
 

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keasley45":23ia9tzf said:
We banked on having a more dynamic DLine. Losing Reed in FA I guarantee you was a shock and created a huge hole on the Dline. Then, losing Aldon also was a surprise and a loss. So they went into the season gambling on a Dline jelling and working and that never really happened. I also think Dunlap's foot injury hobbled him more than he let on.

On the backend, as soon as we got Tre Brown in the lineup and moved Reed to his natural side, the D looked completely different.

On offense, Russ getting hurt hobbled us. And before and after he came back, the insistence on passing as much as we did, took away a strength of our offense in our run game - we finished 3rd in the league this year at 5 ypc and were humming along at 4.6ypc + well before Penny went on his streak. So we literally threw into failure, by choice.
I think that was the most unfortunate thing about the season - the infighting and seeming rebellious play from the QB position. We won all of the games where we had a balanced attack and lost all but one when we passed more than we ran. That's a pretty glaring fact.

So if we get Tre, Jamal, and Quandre back on defense and add depth at CB and a star on the Dline, I think we come into the season much stronger than we finished the year. A silver lining from all of the injuries on D is our backups got a ton of valuable time as well, which will make the D Better too. I mean for Christs sake, even with the weak dline for most ofnthe year, we finished top 10 in scoring. It should be noted that that fact is also pretty close to unprecedented in the league. So if we fix the dline , how much better can we be than top 10?
On offense... fortify the line again and we are GTG in my opinion.
This year was hard, but if in the end it was what was necessary for Pete and Russ to get back on the same page, allowed our D to mature and grow confidence among the young guys, and established our run first identity again that maybe foregoes MVP talk in favor of Lombardi possibilities, then it will have been worth it. And shoot, if we start next year clicking in the run game the way we did this year, and Russ can be his normal efficient self and feast off of play action, I completely belive Waldron has enough X and O factor in his playbook to elevate the entire offense and maybe get Russ his MVP regardless.

I say all of that acknowledging it doesn't take into account free agency...
Really Good Post keasley, I couldn't agree more. :irishdrinkers:
 

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Aros":2hnql9pc said:
I for one can hold my head high today as a Seattle Seahawks fan. Sure, they fell well short of their and our expectations this year. 7-10 is not a record any one of us would have predicted heading into this season coming off a 12-4 division-winning season. We can spend countless hours (and we do) discussing the whys and hows of it all but what I want to celebrate today is a team that clearly has pride and didn't ever once quit on each other or their coach.

The Lions is one thing. But beating a sound divisional opponent who gave it their all against us because a win meant they would secure the division title, and yet we still beat them? That's solid. That's something to build off of. I'm not suggesting keeping the band together exactly. Yes, there will still be changes in the offseason but that's nothing new.

I do believe we still have the talent and foundation - with the appropriate offseason moves - to be right back in the thick of things next year.

It was a challenging year for us all. Players, coaches, fans... But there's always next year and I have hope for a better season in 2022.


This season reminds me of how every losing Seahawks game and season has played out since 2015 or so. A lot of too little too late and false heroics in the end to cover up the other 2/3rds of the season/game where the Hawks got completely wrecked/out coached/quarterbacked.
 
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