Hawks-WORST NFL team in the last 18 years-Time Of Possession

seabowl · Jan 16, 2022

Just to put things in perspective of how bad the 2021 Hawks O was, the team averaged a time of possession of 25:17 which was the lowest of ANY TEAM in the league SINCE 2003 which was as far back as the site I searched on let me go. That means that ALL 575 teams that have played seasons since then averaged better. Unreal.

Yes Russ was injured but that is maybe the worst stat I have seen as a Hawks fan since 1992’s all-time pathetic O.

Pete, Waldron, etc., have a lot of work to do.

sutz · Jan 16, 2022

I don't see a TOP of 25 minutes as being a huge problem. Our style of play lends itself to it. We attempt to have a grinding, bend don't break defense with a big-play, quick strike offense.

Personally, it bugs me a bit, too. It works fine IF the O can generate a few drives in the 4-6 minute range that end in TDs. Three and outs are the bugaboo of the system. I loved it when they would maintain a 8-10 minute or longer drive and give the D a chance to rest and reset. It didn't happen often enough. And yes, Russ has a certain tendency to look long more so than underneath which leads to stupid sacks and lost opportunities. In 2021, with the running game on life support for most of it, they couldn't get the first downs to sustain drives and provide opportunities.

So, 25 minutes average TOP doesn't surprise me at all. I also don't think that it is that much of a problem. It's when they get down to 20 minutes and below where it gets to be a problem. That just ensures that your D is too tired to stop a 4th Qtr comeback drive by the opposition, and that the opponent's D is well rested enough to stop your own try.

chris98251 · Jan 16, 2022

sutz":1i2zigct said:
I don't see a TOP of 25 minutes as being a huge problem. Our style of play lends itself to it. We attempt to have a grinding, bend don't break defense with a big-play, quick strike offense.

Personally, it bugs me a bit, too. It works fine IF the O can generate a few drives in the 4-6 minute range that end in TDs. Three and outs are the bugaboo of the system. I loved it when they would maintain a 8-10 minute or longer drive and give the D a chance to rest and reset. It didn't happen often enough. And yes, Russ has a certain tendency to look long more so than underneath which leads to stupid sacks and lost opportunities. In 2021, with the running game on life support for most of it, they couldn't get the first downs to sustain drives and provide opportunities.

So, 25 minutes average TOP doesn't surprise me at all. I also don't think that it is that much of a problem. It's when they get down to 20 minutes and below where it gets to be a problem. That just ensures that your D is too tired to stop a 4th Qtr comeback drive by the opposition, and that the opponent's D is well rested enough to stop your own try.

TOP can be miss leading, in our case it was a major issue since as stated we had our defense on the field so much they were exhausted. When your defense is getting turnovers and the offense is putting up points off those turnovers so that the other team is having long drives to catch up and pass against a defense again creating more turnovers it's a different animal.

We had neither TOP, turnovers, or scoring quickly to build substantial leads.

MD5eahawks · Jan 16, 2022

And yet they outscored their opponents 395-366. I look at these kinds of stats and can't help but write them off to being another byproduct of Pete's style. He seems to be the king when it comes to producing numbers of odd circumstance. As I recall the Hawks seem to have been in several games over the Pete era that have had ending scores never seen before in the history of the league.

justafan · Jan 16, 2022

If you have the lowest TOP in the league there is a strong correlation to being a losing team and a bottom of the league offense. You are probably a team that sucks on both sides of the ball, in scoring and stopping teams from scoring.

Chip Kellys teams were about the only exception to the rule.

Having a historically low TOP means you have huge holes on your team and we do. We allow teams,many who have marginal talent, too many long drives. Our D has been bad at getting off the field. Low in creating turnovers and getting sacks. The Cards and Detroit game skew the numbers making the season totals look better than they were overall. We allow teams like CHI, Texans, or WFT to get way too many long drives. Our problems on offense are obvious. Horrible 3rd down averages. Many times that conversion rate can be you are horrible on 1st and 2nd making it look like you suck on 3rd, maybe we just suck on 3rd period. We score more than most teams would with the time disadvantage but it cant overcome the lack of playmakers on D.

Jville · Jan 16, 2022

seabowl":2a0cnik1 said:
Just to put things in perspective of how bad the 2021 Hawks O was, the team averaged a time of possession of 25:17 which was the lowest of ANY TEAM in the league SINCE 2003 which was as far back as the site I searched on let me go. That means that ALL 575 teams that have played seasons since then averaged better. Unreal.

Yes Russ was injured but that is maybe the worst stat I have seen as a Hawks fan since 1992’s all-time pathetic O.

Pete, Waldron, etc., have a lot of work to do.

They ranked only 30th in first downs for the year.

But, they ranked 10th in 1st downs during their last 3 games with an explosive running game.

What a difference that made in moving the chains.

But, time of possession improved only sightly (26:26) over the last 3 games with a hurrying up offense.

I think there is a lot to review about both the offense and defense.

SNDavidson · Jan 16, 2022

In Peteball ToP doesn't matter as much and the opponent frequently "wins" this category.

Pete wants a running game yes, but he also wants to be explosive and potent. So he doesn't care if we have the ball for two minutes and then DK or Lockett them with a 40 yd TD, then let them drive the length of the field for 14 minutes and kick a fg.

This then is why the 4th quarter matters so much and is where he transitions to ground n pound to kill teams off.

seabowl · Jan 16, 2022

SNDavidson":2586du6n said:
In Peteball ToP doesn't matter as much and the opponent frequently "wins" this category.

Pete wants a running game yes, but he also wants to be explosive and potent. So he doesn't care if we have the ball for two minutes and then DK or Lockett them with a 40 yd TD, then let them drive the length of the field for 14 minutes and kick a fg.

This then is why the 4th quarter matters so much and is where he transitions to ground n pound to kill teams off.

Worst in 18 years out of 575 teams.

justafan · Jan 16, 2022

SNDavidson":tskazxpm said:
In Peteball ToP doesn't matter as much and the opponent frequently "wins" this category.

Pete wants a running game yes, but he also wants to be explosive and potent. So he doesn't care if we have the ball for two minutes and then DK or Lockett them with a 40 yd TD, then let them drive the length of the field for 14 minutes and kick a fg.

This then is why the 4th quarter matters so much and is where he transitions to ground n pound to kill teams off.

I dont think thats the issue though. Being among the leagues worst in yards allowed,creating turnovers and sacks is more of a problem than scoring too fast. This D isnt Peteball. Its all about the ball

Maelstrom787 · Jan 16, 2022

The term Peteball should really be retired, as literally no one defines the word consistently any longer.

Yxes1122 · Jan 16, 2022

Resign Penny and Sign a pair of pass rushers and you get better on 3rd Down on both sides of the ball.

I think the TOP problem is entirely fixable.

Yxes1122 · Jan 16, 2022

Maelstrom787":13d5rhfh said:
The term Peteball should really be retired, as literally no one defines the word consistently any longer.

I second this motion.

John63 · Jan 16, 2022

The missing piece to all this TOP is the defense. I know they gave up an incredible amount of 5+ minute drives. TOP is not just about the offense.

For example, we won the Cards game but lost TOP by 11 minutes. IN that game the defense game up drives of

10:41
7:01
That over 25% of the game in 2 drives

In the Chicago game they game up drives of
8:27
5:27
7:50
That's over 30% of a game in 3 drives.

I can go ono.

Now the offense does take some of the blame for sure, but so does the defenese. Bend don't break might keep scores low but east up TOP

in fact, the league avg for Time on the field for defense is 30:16 Seattle is 35:10 which is the worst in the NFL.

https://www.oddsshark.com/nfl/defensive-stats

justafan · Jan 16, 2022

John63":17qodls4 said:
The missing piece to all this TOP is the defense. I know they gave up an incredible amount of 5+ minute drives. TOP is not just about the offense.

For example, we won the Cards game but lost TOP by 11 minutes. IN that game the defense game up drives of

10:41
7:01
That over 25% of the game in 2 drives

In the Chicago game they game up drives of
8:27
5:27
7:50
That's over 30% of a game in 3 drives.

I can go ono.

Now the offense does take some of the blame for sure, but so does the defenese. Bend don't break might keep scores low but east up TOP

in fact, the league avg for Time on the field for defense is 30:16 Seattle is 35:10 which is the worst in the NFL.

https://www.oddsshark.com/nfl/defensive-stats

I couldnt find any team with a worse time of TOP , in history, I would be surprised if the 92 team had worse.

John63 · Jan 16, 2022

justafan":1tun0yre said:
John63":1tun0yre said:

The missing piece to all this TOP is the defense. I know they gave up an incredible amount of 5+ minute drives. TOP is not just about the offense.

For example, we won the Cards game but lost TOP by 11 minutes. IN that game the defense game up drives of

10:41
7:01
That over 25% of the game in 2 drives

In the Chicago game they game up drives of
8:27
5:27
7:50
That's over 30% of a game in 3 drives.

I can go ono.

Now the offense does take some of the blame for sure, but so does the defenese. Bend don't break might keep scores low but east up TOP

in fact, the league avg for Time on the field for defense is 30:16 Seattle is 35:10 which is the worst in the NFL.

https://www.oddsshark.com/nfl/defensive-stats

Click to expand...

I couldnt find any team with a worse time of TOP , in history, I would be surprised if the 92 team had worse.

For whats, it's worth I could not find any defense with a worse time on the field than ours either.

jeremiah · Jan 16, 2022

John63":b2zqhbto said:
justafan":b2zqhbto said:

John63":b2zqhbto said:

The missing piece to all this TOP is the defense. I know they gave up an incredible amount of 5+ minute drives. TOP is not just about the offense.

For example, we won the Cards game but lost TOP by 11 minutes. IN that game the defense game up drives of

10:41
7:01
That over 25% of the game in 2 drives

In the Chicago game they game up drives of
8:27
5:27
7:50
That's over 30% of a game in 3 drives.

I can go ono.

Now the offense does take some of the blame for sure, but so does the defenese. Bend don't break might keep scores low but east up TOP

in fact, the league avg for Time on the field for defense is 30:16 Seattle is 35:10 which is the worst in the NFL.

https://www.oddsshark.com/nfl/defensive-stats

Click to expand...

I couldnt find any team with a worse time of TOP , in history, I would be surprised if the 92 team had worse.

Click to expand...

For whats, it's worth I could not find any defense with a worse time on the field than ours either.

THAT is Pete Ball. The major difference between winning and losing for PC teams is turnovers. When they get a lot of takeaways, the team thrives when seen as an entire season. I KNOW turnovers help in single games. They also have a cumulative effect on a season as teams protect the ball instead of going all out on every play.

sutz · Jan 16, 2022

People like to blame the D, and there is plenty of room for criticism there, but think about it. Every first down represents another 1-2 minutes of game clock or so across the 3 plays gained, thus more TOP. Frankly, I've been pointing this out all season.

Which brings up another thing to think about, which is how much does your 3rd down efficiency depend on postive yardage gained on 1st and 2d down? 3rd and 3-5 yards to go is a lot more makeable than 3rd and 10.

:229031_shrug:

John63 · Jan 16, 2022

sutz":35tmbou8 said:
People like to blame the D, and there is plenty of room for criticism there, but think about it. Every first down represents another 1-2 minutes of game clock or so across the 3 plays gained, thus more TOP. Frankly, I've been pointing this out all season.

Which brings up another thing to think about, which is how much does your 3rd down efficiency depend on postive yardage gained on 1st and 2d down? 3rd and 3-5 yards to go is a lot more makeable than 3rd and 10.

:229031_shrug:

Again the defense ranks last is getting off the field that's on them. Period. They are on the field fornover 35 minutes that's on them.they give up the most drives of 5+ minutes in the NFL that's on them.

seabowl · Jan 16, 2022

John63":1bll1zj5 said:
sutz":1bll1zj5 said:

People like to blame the D, and there is plenty of room for criticism there, but think about it. Every first down represents another 1-2 minutes of game clock or so across the 3 plays gained, thus more TOP. Frankly, I've been pointing this out all season.

Which brings up another thing to think about, which is how much does your 3rd down efficiency depend on postive yardage gained on 1st and 2d down? 3rd and 3-5 yards to go is a lot more makeable than 3rd and 10.

:229031_shrug:

Click to expand...

Again the defense ranks last is getting off the field that's on them. Period. They are on the field fornover 35 minutes that's on them.they give up the most drives of 5+ minutes in the NFL that's on them.

Both O and D sucked pretty much.

John63 · Jan 16, 2022

seabowl":3jwo2dq2 said:
John63":3jwo2dq2 said:

sutz":3jwo2dq2 said:

People like to blame the D, and there is plenty of room for criticism there, but think about it. Every first down represents another 1-2 minutes of game clock or so across the 3 plays gained, thus more TOP. Frankly, I've been pointing this out all season.

Which brings up another thing to think about, which is how much does your 3rd down efficiency depend on postive yardage gained on 1st and 2d down? 3rd and 3-5 yards to go is a lot more makeable than 3rd and 10.

:229031_shrug:

Click to expand...

Again the defense ranks last is getting off the field that's on them. Period. They are on the field fornover 35 minutes that's on them.they give up the most drives of 5+ minutes in the NFL that's on them.

Click to expand...

Both O and D sucked pretty much.

At TOP yes.

Hawks-WORST NFL team in the last 18 years-Time Of Possession

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