A Different Kind of Wilson Thread

MysterMatt

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This is NOT a "Wilson vs. Flynn" thread, at least this isn't my intent, and I'm hoping there can be some constructive conversation. I don't mind wisearses, but I hope the vitriol can be held to a minimum.

Anyhow, last night I snuggled up with a whiskey after the game and pondered our offensive woes. Here are a couple observations:

1. I agree 100% with English and many of you that WR upgrades are essential for our next offseason. Ours just aren't passing muster and miss too many opportunities. For now we have to go with the players we have.
2. Russell Wilson is not a complete QB at this point and, other than a beautiful long ball and his ability to use his feet, the rest of his game is lacking.
3. Russell Wilson is our starting QB, barring injury, so anyone who doesn't like that will just have to deal.

I'm going to leave observation #1 alone because it's been covered in another thread.

As for Wilson (also, admittedly, covered in about 700 other threads), I think that his weaknesses are Flynn's strengths and vice versa. There is no way in hell that Flynn could have made the game winning throw against New England, but from what we've seen of him in his starts and during preseason is that he is one of those precision short/mid range guys, much like Hasselbeck or other West Coast QBs. That is precisely the kind of QB we need against vicious defenses like SF. His vertical game is, however, suspect.

So since we can't make a FranckenQB out of the two, which has the potential to become the better QB? In my opinion, that is Wilson, but for the love of DAWG, he's got to get better at faster reads 5-10 yards down the field...in the middle of the field. Drew Brees has admitted that there are often plays to certain parts of the field that he doesn't see his receiver clearly, but that he sees enough to know where they will be and can throw to that spot. This is directly due to his lack of height, but he's learned how to compensate for it. I think this is key for Wilson as well.

I'll say it again, for Wilson to become a complete QB, he has simply got to be able to find guys in short and medium range in the middle of the field.

So what do you think? What's it going to take for Wilson to be a complete QB?
 

Hawksfanatik

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For our team now, Matt Flynn is the choice I would make. He sees the field so much better than Wilson (yeah he is a rookie). So what... You can't win in a passing league throwing for 100-150 yards per game.

If our Defense is holding thier own and we are rushing over 100 yards per game, if we just have average passing stats, we'd be undefeated.

Flynn for the win. Cruficy me now, I don't care. Drops aside, our passing game all season has been abysmal.
 

SouthSoundHawk

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Hawksfanatik":1ke1b3sk said:
For our team now, Matt Flynn is the choice I would make. He sees the field so much better than Wilson (yeah he is a rookie). So what... You can't win in a passing league throwing for 100-150 yards per game.

If our Defense is holding thier own and we are rushing over 100 yards per game, if we just have average passing stats, we'd be undefeated.


...bums me out to say it...but..Alex Smith seems to be doing a pretty good job with this.
 

LymonHawk

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He needs to make his reads, quicker. Will time improve this? Only time will tell. IMHO, reading defenses is a QBs number one priority.

He's still too eager to run. This should improve with time. (Or until he gets his first concussion, ACL, etc.) I'm not a big fan of running QBs in the pro-game.

I don't see him hitting his safety-valve, hot-read, receivers. Hopefully, he will learn to trust his people and keep the running to a minimum.

This man has lots of upside, but he also has some downside.

Time will tell.
 

Sgt. Largent

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MysterMatt":39ldx2qp said:
I'll say it again, for Wilson to become a complete QB, he has simply got to be able to find guys in short and medium range in the middle of the field.

Oh he finds them, but either the pass is off, late, early.............. or they drop it.
 

MontanaHawk05

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He needs more Rices and Baldwins. Guys who get open and can provide an intermediate move-the-chains game.

He also needs a head coach who understands that an NFL offense is more than just hard running interspersed with the occasional bomb.
 

ImTheScientist

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Hawksfanatik":3kq5mhis said:
For our team now, Matt Flynn is the choice I would make. He sees the field so much better than Wilson (yeah he is a rookie). So what... You can't win in a passing league throwing for 100-150 yards per game.

1) Your see's the filed comment is speculation. You have no factual evidence.
2) Our offense will be the same with Flynn..... He is less experienced than Russell Wilson and things would be scaled back.
 
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Agree with the others on giving him time.

I wonder if RW reached out to Brees if he would meet him and work with him a little bit in the offseason? Some 'short guy' pointers, if you will, a little Q&A.

Kind of like how other skill players from various teams come together to work out sometimes, and even wind up bonding.
 

Hawksfanatik

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T-Sizzle":2n671kum said:
Hawksfanatik":2n671kum said:
For our team now, Matt Flynn is the choice I would make. He sees the field so much better than Wilson (yeah he is a rookie). So what... You can't win in a passing league throwing for 100-150 yards per game.

1) Your see's the filed comment is speculation. You have no factual evidence.
2) Our offense will be the same with Flynn..... He is less experienced than Russell Wilson and things would be scaled back.

Without attacking the poster, I am attacking your post. In my opinion, your so far off it isnt funny.

1) Its well known and I think even Pete Carroll mentioned how Flynn is good at seeing the field, he mentioned that as a strength in training camp. He sees things quickly, and if you watched him play in Green Bay, that appears to be the case.

2) Its hard to say hes less experienced. Yes gametime, true. But he is an NFL vet who learned behind Aaron Rodgers for years. In fact, Rodgers called him a top 15 QB in the game. Yes, he only has two games experience, but I would bet my money he has a lot more football knowledge than Russell Wilson at this point in time.


Agree to disagree, but I am a pretty open minded guy and on your two points in particular, you are way off buddy.
 
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MysterMatt

MysterMatt

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T-Sizzle":1vkelwpv said:
TIME....and I don't agree with a lot of your Wilson comments.
What will time do, precisely? How will that, in and of itself, make him a better QB?

By this logic, every rookie QB who ever steps on the field should, at some point, become a quality NFL starter.

And which of my statements are incorrect? That Wilson is not set as our starter and that there is hope for Flynn lovers? Or that he's the kind of QB that would have helped us win last night (can see the whole field and excels and high-percentage, quick tempo passing game)?

Feel free to elaborate, I'm just curious.
 
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MysterMatt

MysterMatt

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Sgt. Largent":3crrocsh said:
MysterMatt":3crrocsh said:
I'll say it again, for Wilson to become a complete QB, he has simply got to be able to find guys in short and medium range in the middle of the field.

Oh he finds them, but either the pass is off, late, early.............. or they drop it.
Okay, but what I've seen a fair amount of is that when the D bunches up the middle, he seems to have a hard time seeing anything behind them, which leaves a huge part of the field a black hole. Better receivers, I've already said, will help, but they can't compensate for that.

Another guy mentioned finding a mentor. That's not necessarily a bad idea, but I don't know if Brees would go for that or not. I wonder if they can work on such situations in practice? Create some type of drill that builds chemistry in those situations?
 

sa_seahawker

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The only "problem" I can see with RW is that he's only 5'10", which leads me to believe that they should be calling more swing pass plays. Also, because the O-line is averaging 6'6" tall, those are some tall melons to peek over which further solidifies my belief. Seattle is 7th in rushing thus far so it still leads me to believe that they are having some success in pushing around defenses.

But then again, the play calls have been...interesting thus far (IE 4 pass plays on a goal line in Arizona)

Just my $0.02...I could be wrong.
 

drdiags

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First thing he has to stop doing is retreating out the back side when he feels pressure. His first instinct is to run backwards. Would also like to see a healthy connection start for him with his TEs. He has shown glimpses but would really like to see more. Miller and Rice should be seeing the largest amount of his distribution, with Baldwin/Tate getting the next distribution share.

Using his RBs similar to how the 49ers used theirs isn't a bad thing. Though those guys need to catch the ball when given the chance.

TEs should be this guy's training wheels. I hope they never coach out of him his faith to give his WRs a chance in tight coverage. I think he is a stopgap for now. Maybe he becomes the long term answer, but if this regime remains in play, once Flynn moves on I would expect a high pick at the QB position. Wilson to me is like a Colt McCoy. Though that is just a superficial comparison.
 

m0ng0

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I think Russells biggest crutch right now is that he is just reacting, he is not comfortable/patient/confident enough with the offense and the chemistry/trust with his receivers is not there to throw to spots on the field.

They tried the conservative playbook in hopes it would start to click but it has not, the long passes for the most part are desperation plays to stay in games or sometimes just perfectly called plays, we have been lucky with a few of those long plays, Tate vs GB, Baldwin really made that catch vs NE by adjusting his body position IN AIR to keep that ball from being picked and making a great catch, the Edwards catch vs NE was flat out ugly and clumsy looking but we did get a TD play there also.

Some people have become impatient (myself included) with Russells play and it almost seems we gotta go back to square one offensively in hopes the coin drops. Russ knows the fundamentals but has not grasped the speed with which things happen and instead of being patient and following the plan he panics and reacts. We have been pretty lucky so far and a lot of breaks have went our way in tight games but that is not likely to continue.

People may critize Bevell and Petes offense but it is a tried and true blueprint that works, but in order for it to work you have to have patience and execute it properly (that goes for the entire offense not just Russ) Once you can show you have digested and can execute the offense THEN wrinkles can be implemented that showcase Russells strengths as quarterback and really make this offense exciting.

Having said that I have not seen the improvement that many see and I have yet to see Russell be the leader this offense needs, Russ needs to start calling out the OLine when they miss an assignment or jump in a WR's face when they blow or quit a route, its Russells show and he has a chance to take it and sadly he is letting that slip away.

Go back to basics and learn the offense.

sorry for the ramble
 

sa_seahawker

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m0ng0":1l901bvh said:
People may critize Bevell and Petes offense but it is a tried and true blueprint that works, but in order for it to work you have to have patience and execute it properly (that goes for the entire offense not just Russ) Once you can show you have digested and can execute the offense THEN wrinkles can be implemented that showcase Russells strengths as quarterback and really make this offense exciting.

I'm sure it worked great at USC, just like Dennis Erickson's coaching worked great at the University of Miami...I'm just sayin' :mrgreen:
 

hawker84

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Flynn vs Wilson - Wilson over Flynn..... nothings gonna change... barring complete meltdown or injury. wilson is our starter... he's got to improve with the reads and quick check downs, he's got to trust the pocket a little more.. our recievers and backs need to start catching the ball more consistantly, our line has to pass protect better...more importantly and i said this last night during the game.. our coaching staff has got to stop putting him in bad positions, 3rd and longs, start mixing up the play calling - run, run pass is a recipe for failure at this point in his development.... if we're unsuccessful on 1st and 2nd running the ball all the time, defenses are going to pin their ears back.. and that's where the trouble starts... when he has time from a play fake or just good pass blocking you have seen how effective he can be.... wilson is the best qb we have , he has the most potential , and is the better athelete by far, the reads and check downs will come with time, right now he's playing on instinct... i wish we never traded for flynn so we can stop poundering over this....
 

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