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TheUndefeated: Geno Smith and the backup black quarterback

Discuss any and all NFL-related topics. Ex-Seahawks fall into NFL topics. LANGUAGE: PG-13
  • https://theundefeated.com/features/geno ... arterback/

    "In modern NFL history, backup black quarterbacks have typically been a former Pro Bowl-level starter (Michael Vick) or star college player who mostly used his legs (Troy Smith). But Smith, who in two years as a starter completed 57.5% of his passes and had nine more interceptions (34) than touchdowns (25), has maintained a seven-year career despite being neither of those things. In other words, he has been allowed to be a modest backup like many white quarterbacks"
    SantaClaraHawk
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  • I don't see much of a point here. Seems clear to me a team position, starting or backup, is accessible to anyone with the skill to excel, despite political and/or social infirmities of some owners.
    Appyhawk
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  • In modern NFL history, backup black quarterbacks have typically been a former Pro Bowl-level starter (Michael Vick)


    What is the attempted point here?

    Do they forget about Tarvaris Jackson spending 3 years here as backup because their entire point fails because of that IMO.
    Seymour
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  • He also has a thread about not enough black HC's in the NFL . Here's another " who cares " stat...70% of the players in the NFL are black . :stirthepot:
    xray
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  • Hey XRay, I put the thread up b/c it's the only mention of Geno anywhere in any major media (theundefeated is part of ESPN) in the amount of time he's been a backup.
    SantaClaraHawk
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  • Cool story bro
    Crizilla
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  • I've posted this before on here before we played Baltimore and in a draft thread back in 2018 regarding the draft, but I'll say it again as everyone seems to be talking about Lamar Jackson being drafted too late now---Lamar Jackson is the best college football player I've ever seen and it is a travesty that he lasted till pick number 21. It wasn't just his running or that he was athletic, he was just a good quarterback that sensed pressure and had moves that kept plays alive in the pocket or scrambling. He made everyone he played look like he was an adult playing against kids. His Louisville teams were not that great and he carried them. It was almost as big of a travesty as Russell Wilson lasting till the third round. If there wasn't a bias against black QB's, and the scouts looked at the college games, Lamar should have been the first pick. Him and Baker Mayfield were the only two players that proved what they could do in college and deserved to be taken in the first round that year IMO.
    aawolf
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  • aawolf wrote:I've posted this before on here before we played Baltimore and in a draft thread back in 2018 regarding the draft, but I'll say it again as everyone seems to be talking about Lamar Jackson being drafted too late now---Lamar Jackson is the best college football player I've ever seen and it is a travesty that he lasted till pick number 21. It wasn't just his running or that he was athletic, he was just a good quarterback that sensed pressure and had moves that kept plays alive in the pocket or scrambling. He made everyone he played look like he was an adult playing against kids. His Louisville teams were not that great and he carried them. It was almost as big of a travesty as Russell Wilson lasting till the third round. If there wasn't a bias against black QB's, and the scouts looked at the college games, Lamar should have been the first pick. Him and Baker Mayfield were the only two players that proved what they could do in college and deserved to be taken in the first round that year IMO.


    But history dictates that QBs that can run do not last in the NFL. That is why. Look at RGIII as the most recent example. Russell Wilson lasted to the 3rd round because of his height more than anything else.

    How many "mobile QBs" were considered to be in the upper echelon for many many years? Russell Wilson -- that's it (and even that's debatable).

    For every Russell Wilson, there are many more Vince Youngs.

    This is the status quo. Want to change it? Well first, why? Second, it'll never change as long as white QBs continue to succeed in spite of their lack of mobility and black QBs continue to fail, even with the advantage of mobility.
    Mindsink
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  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:Hey XRay, I put the thread up b/c it's the only mention of Geno anywhere in any major media (theundefeated is part of ESPN) in the amount of time he's been a backup.


    It's always useful to read about what a site says about itself to understand it's mission. Here is the relevant quote from that site ............................
    The Undefeated is the premier platform for exploring the intersections of race, sports and culture. We enlighten and entertain with innovative storytelling, original reporting and provocative commentary.

    I understand the reasoning (Geno) for posting this in the main (Seahawk focused) forum. Posting in [ NFL NATION ] would have been a more encompassing choice as the opinion piece has a much broader scope than the more focused scope of a unique Seahawks culture created by Pete and John and other dedicated Seahawks.

    So, I'm going to move this thread to open it up to opinion discussion about quarterbacks thru out the league.

    Please keep it civil.
    Jville
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  • Mindsink wrote:
    aawolf wrote: it'll never change as long as white QBs continue to succeed in spite of their lack of mobility and black QBs continue to fail, even with the advantage of mobility.


    Throwing the ball is job one for an NFL QB. If he does it well, he'll have a job, if not, he won't. Mobility is a plus, if used wisely. It is rare to have a QB who can do both really well -- and can avoid injury for years. Tarkenton, Staubach, Vick, Steve Young, Russ, are the exceptions.

    I don't know what race has to do with this.
    Tusc2000
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  • Tusc2000 wrote:I don't know what race has to do with this.


    I can't tell if you're being deliberately obtuse or if that's a serious question. If the latter, then I'll answer for you... Black guys are faster, so they get naturally stereotyped as "running QBs", even if they're not (see Teddy Bridgewater).
    Mindsink
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  • Is there anything out there that people WON'T associate with race?.......
    RolandDeschain
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  • Mindsink wrote:
    Tusc2000 wrote:I don't know what race has to do with this.


    I can't tell if you're being deliberately obtuse or if that's a serious question. If the latter, then I'll answer for you... Black guys are faster, so they get naturally stereotyped as "running QBs", even if they're not (see Teddy Bridgewater).


    Oh Christ.
    HawkStrong
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  • Mindsink wrote:
    Tusc2000 wrote:I don't know what race has to do with this.


    I can't tell if you're being deliberately obtuse or if that's a serious question. If the latter, then I'll answer for you... Black guys are faster, so they get naturally stereotyped as "running QBs", even if they're not (see Teddy Bridgewater).


    Hmm Bobby Douglas, Fran Tarkenton, Roger Staubach, Doug Flutie to a degree. Yeah some were called scramblers and other Mobile, they were not designated Running QB's because that's not what they primarily did and because coaching told them not too many times, the most Pure one was Bobby Douglas for the Bears who was terrible at throwing the ball by the way.
    chris98251
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  • It wasn't that long ago that athletic running QBs that were black, were often converted to WR.

    Whereas the Steve Youngs and John Elways were allowed to be athletic (runners) and still be QBs.

    McNabb kind of broke that door down a bit, though the QB from Syracuse before him broke the door down for McNabb to get the green light to play the way he did in college. (Cunningham was a bit of an outlier. So you still had QBs get a shot, but he was also stellar. I still think if Cunningham played in today's NFL, he would probably be unstoppable.)

    Moon had to earn his way through the CFL, but he should have been playing in the NFL from the jump. It would be hard to argue his race had nothing to do with not getting a door opening, because the talent and skill was there - even in college.

    It is hard to miss a history of black QBs having to be extraordinary to even get the chance. Sure you had Doug Williams and others, but it would be difficult to argue the door was not harder to open for a black QB than his counterparts.

    It is changing. Some of the better QBs in the league are black now. If nothing else, I think the perception people used to justify those earlier decisions, that an 'athletic' player cannot also be intelligent (at the QB position), is almost gone.

    Still, to pretend that race did not impact QB success until fairly recently requires some mental gymnastics, if not outright willful ignorance. You did not see many black backup QBs in the league until recently. I get the intent of the article. Progress is being made.





    Still, Geno Smith was/is not good enough to be a starter. Personally not that excited about him being a backup.
    TwistedHusky
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  • Was Geno even known as a scrambler or as a mobile QB? My impression was that he was always more of a classic backup. That's what I read this article as saying--he's like an Ostweiler or McCoy, able to settle into a journeyman position without having to be "athletic" in the way some think black qbs "should" be because of their race.

    That said, I'm not sure he's the ideal for a Hawks QB2. There is no young QB for him to mentor here, and certainly finding a journeyman with a higher QBR and/or skill ceiling is possible.
    SantaClaraHawk
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  • Remember when the black QB known as Tom Brady lasted until the 7th round? Oh wait he was white.

    Sick and tired of the race baiting bs permeating every aspect of our culture. How about we give the benefit of the doubt that things in life happen beyond perception of race? It's really just used by powerful people to divide and conquer, and it's been painfully obvious in the last decade
    cymatica
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  • The Undefeated on the ESPN site is racist. If they want to talk about the absolute best back-up QB regardless of color?
    That's easy. Taysom Hill.
    JayhawkMike
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  • Taysom Hill? NO. Actually, the absolute best backup QB this year? Ryan Tannehill. So good he's now starting since week 8 and now is 2 playoff road wins into his first-ever playoff run. Oh darn. He's a white former starter.

    P.S. It helps a lot when you have Derrick Henry to hand off to and an O-Line that can move a D-Line backward and pass protect.
    olyfan63
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  • olyfan63 wrote:Taysom Hill? NO. Actually, the absolute best backup QB this year? Ryan Tannehill. So good he's now starting since week 8 and now is 2 playoff road wins into his first-ever playoff run. Oh darn. He's a white former starter.

    P.S. It helps a lot when you have Derrick Henry to hand off to and an O-Line that can move a D-Line backward and pass protect.


    Bridgewater probably could have done the same.

    But that wasn't the article's intent. It was more "can black QBs get and keep jobs in the middle backup strata?" with Geno being put forth as proof that they can.
    SantaClaraHawk
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  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:
    olyfan63 wrote:Taysom Hill? NO. Actually, the absolute best backup QB this year? Ryan Tannehill.

    Bridgewater probably could have done the same.

    At first glance, it seems like Bridgewater would be a good comp for the Tennessee situation, but NO, not really. For one thing, Bridgewater is slower than Tannehill, and Tannehill is overall a better runner, not just faster. Counter to stereotypes. Tannehill's read-option run against the Ravens was a relevant data point. Their career rushing stats also bear this out.

    Tannehill is also a much better receiver for trick plays. Seemingly a small thing for a QB, but this ability mattered in the SB for Nick Foles, Philly Special, the difference that wound up being the margin of victory. Tannehill was a WR in college and got converted to QB.

    Bridgewater certainly did a good job against the Seahawks D, though. Did everything you would ever hope for a backup to come in and do for the Saints, undefeated while filling in for Brees IIRC.
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