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SF scheme beating the Packers

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SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:52 pm
  • So much easier for players to execute on offense when the defense has to think. SF willing to use the whole field, take advantage of short to intermediate throws and up the middle. Running game at least makes the defense think and tests their keys.

    Yes I am pointing out the vanilla scheme Seattle insists on running despite not having the personnel for it. Everything would be so much easier on Wilson and the offense if there wasn't such a conservative 'play it safe' 'long ball or no ball' approach
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:59 pm
  • It's pathetic how many posters around here won't even acknowledge this deficiency on our offense, honestly; and yeah, I don't give a crap how many people find my reply arrogant or condescending. It's factually true, whether they want to admit it or not.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:00 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:It's pathetic how many posters around here won't even acknowledge this deficiency on our offense, honestly; and yeah, I don't give a crap how many people find my reply arrogant or condescending. It's factually true, whether they want to admit it or not.

    Hows lafluer getting on with his whizz kid plays?
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:01 pm
  • Yeah. They only run into the pack once in a while, compared to Seattle, which seems to be about 80% of the time.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:04 pm
  • UK_Seahawk wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:It's pathetic how many posters around here won't even acknowledge this deficiency on our offense, honestly; and yeah, I don't give a crap how many people find my reply arrogant or condescending. It's factually true, whether they want to admit it or not.

    Hows lafluer getting on with his whizz kid plays?

    There's a lot more to it than just "scheming", though. Scheming for your OPPONENT, with the PERSONNEL that you have, is huge. It's an old cliche at this point, but the NFL really is all about match-ups and if you do the same predictable stuff on offense most of the time, you make it harder on yourselves than it has to be...which the Seahawks excel at doing. It's why we seem to always play up and down to our opponents so much. Look at our game against the Bengals, and HOW good were they this year?

    Palmegranite wrote:Yeah. They only run into the pack once in a while, compared to Seattle, which seems to be about 80% of the time.

    I'm noticing that their line is also opening up holes you could send four wide receivers through too though, lol.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:11 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:It's pathetic how many posters around here won't even acknowledge this deficiency on our offense, honestly; and yeah, I don't give a crap how many people find my reply arrogant or condescending. It's factually true, whether they want to admit it or not.


    It's amazing how you can be so arrogant that you can't see that lack of variety with Seattle's scheme compared to SFs. Yes, matchups and execution matter, but trotting out a predictable gameplan every time just let's the other team tee off on you and makes it that much harder to execute. Go ahead though, keep pretending you are smarter than everyone.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:15 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    UK_Seahawk wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:It's pathetic how many posters around here won't even acknowledge this deficiency on our offense, honestly; and yeah, I don't give a crap how many people find my reply arrogant or condescending. It's factually true, whether they want to admit it or not.

    Hows lafluer getting on with his whizz kid plays?

    There's a lot more to it than just "scheming", though. Scheming for your OPPONENT, with the PERSONNEL that you have, is huge. It's an old cliche at this point, but the NFL really is all about match-ups and if you do the same predictable stuff on offense most of the time, you make it harder on yourselves than it has to be...which the Seahawks excel at doing. It's why we seem to always play up and down to our opponents so much. Look at our game against the Bengals, and HOW good were they this year?

    Palmegranite wrote:Yeah. They only run into the pack once in a while, compared to Seattle, which seems to be about 80% of the time.

    I'm noticing that their line is also opening up holes you could send four wide receivers through too though, lol.



    That's basically what I am saying. Why do you have to try and insult me? Does it make you feel smarter?
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:17 pm
  • In the last decade no team has won more games than the Seahawks in the nfc. Roland like most who are a bit intellectually challenged has been distracted by the new and shiny.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:18 pm
  • Cymatica, I think you misunderstnad. My post was not directed at you whatsoever.

    @UK_Seahawk. Ok Bert. :)
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:19 pm
  • Lol:

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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:24 pm
  • Refreshing to see a coach that feels you can win the game in a quarter other than the 4th.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:48 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:Lol:



    I knew the Packers wouldn't compete. At least the Seahawks would have.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:51 pm
  • Aikman noting how the 49ers are dedicated to the run like other successful teams like the Seahawks.

    But but but scheme shouts Roland before being distracted by some unimportant meaningless argument.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:55 pm
  • UK_Seahawk wrote:Aikman noting how the 49ers are dedicated to the run like other successful teams like the Seahawks.

    But but but scheme shouts Roland before being distracted by some unimportant meaningless argument.

    It's like you don't even understand how different METHODS of running, and disguising what you're trying to do pre-snap, can make a difference. You can't possibly be that obtuse...can you?
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:12 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:Cymatica, I think you misunderstnad. My post was not directed at you whatsoever.

    @UK_Seahawk. Ok Bert. :)


    Yeah my bad, i just re-read it and i think the whiskey ruined my reading comprehension. Wow, wtf was my brain doing
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:21 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    UK_Seahawk wrote:Aikman noting how the 49ers are dedicated to the run like other successful teams like the Seahawks.

    But but but scheme shouts Roland before being distracted by some unimportant meaningless argument.

    It's like you don't even understand how different METHODS of running, and disguising what you're trying to do pre-snap, can make a difference. You can't possibly be that obtuse...can you?


    That's what I don't get. Some people will simplify it into "we ran" or "we passed" but be completely oblivious to how you run or pass. The 49ers just proved you can run almost every play and still fool the defense(JG had like 6 pass attempts), as long as you actually give the defense different looks and motions.

    How many times do you see Seattle run from the same formation and look... Shotgun with what looks like a read option that never uses the option. Very rarely do we see stretches, swings, tosses, or anything with a fullback. For a team that loves the run, it's really just sad how vanilla and uncreative they are in that facet.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:52 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:Lol:



    Lol
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:54 pm
  • I agree wholeheartedly with Roland. Don't worry, brother, you are not alone on the island of actually-seeing-what-opponent-does-and-scheming-for-it
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:15 pm
  • Why do so many people get enamored with these outside zone / misdirection based offenses?

    Here's the thing, Seattle built their O-line with maulers who can beat guys one on one. The 49ers built their O-line with athletic guys who can move in space and block as a unit. If Seattle tried to run those same plays, we'd see a lot more guys running free in the back field because guys like DJ Fluker can't block in space.

    The upside to Seattle's philosophy is they can pretty much find success running the ball against anyone, and they tend to get more effective as the game goes on. This opens up the deep passing game and is one of the #1 reasons why they are among the lead leaders in explosive plays.

    Shanahan's offense relies on confusing the defense in the running game and using play-action / misdirection off the run to get receivers space to run after the catch. The problem with his offense is when defenses stop the run and contain the screen passes, 90% of their playbook goes out the window.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:21 pm
  • knownone wrote:Why do so many people get enamored with these outside zone / misdirection based offenses?

    Here's the thing, Seattle built their O-line with maulers who can beat guys one on one. The 49ers built their O-line with athletic guys who can move in space and block as a unit. If Seattle tried to run those same plays, we'd see a lot more guys running free in the back field because guys like DJ Fluker can't block in space.

    The upside to Seattle's philosophy is they can pretty much find success running the ball against anyone, and they tend to get more effective as the game goes on. This opens up the deep passing game and is one of the #1 reasons why they are among the lead leaders in explosive plays.

    Shanahan's offense relies on confusing the defense in the running game and using play-action / misdirection off the run to get receivers space to run after the catch. The problem with his offense is when defenses stop the run and contain the screen passes, 90% of their playbook goes out the window.


    To stop S.F. you need speed and discipline in your assignments and flow to the ball sealing edges, we do that well when healthy, add being able to push up the middle which we had some of the first meeting but lacked the second so they were able to help on Clowney who also was hurt the second time round.

    If we had opened up on offense more the first half and had them in a hole Garrapolo would have ad to beat us and they could not use the run game as well, that's what needs to happen next season.

    That is why we play S.F. so well and the Ravens did also, they have speed and the offense playing in both halfs.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:31 pm
  • knownone wrote:Why do so many people get enamored with these outside zone / misdirection based offenses?

    Here's the thing, Seattle built their O-line with maulers who can beat guys one on one. The 49ers built their O-line with athletic guys who can move in space and block as a unit. If Seattle tried to run those same plays, we'd see a lot more guys running free in the back field because guys like DJ Fluker can't block in space.

    The upside to Seattle's philosophy is they can pretty much find success running the ball against anyone, and they tend to get more effective as the game goes on. This opens up the deep passing game and is one of the #1 reasons why they are among the lead leaders in explosive plays.

    Shanahan's offense relies on confusing the defense in the running game and using play-action / misdirection off the run to get receivers space to run after the catch. The problem with his offense is when defenses stop the run and contain the screen passes, 90% of their playbook goes out the window.

    I think people underestimate how much personnel affects what you can and can't run, even within the scheme you want to execute. Add in missing on players, specially O-line and you can end up with a very skinny playbook.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:56 pm
  • cymatica wrote:
    How many times do you see Seattle run from the same formation and look... Shotgun with what looks like a read option that never uses the option. Very rarely do we see stretches, swings, tosses, or anything with a fullback. For a team that loves the run, it's really just sad how vanilla and uncreative they are in that facet.


    Against Green Bay, ran straight up the middle, got stuffed for no or minimum gain. Rinse and repeat multiple times. Same results.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:58 pm
  • Aw Mang wrote:Against Green Bay, ran straight up the middle, got stuffed for no or minimum gain. Rinse and repeat multiple times. Same results.

    It's absurd how many people around don't seem to realize how much harder this makes it to run when the defense knows exactly what you're doing almost every play.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:23 pm
  • knownone wrote:Why do so many people get enamored with these outside zone / misdirection based offenses?

    Here's the thing, Seattle built their O-line with maulers who can beat guys one on one. The 49ers built their O-line with athletic guys who can move in space and block as a unit. If Seattle tried to run those same plays, we'd see a lot more guys running free in the back field because guys like DJ Fluker can't block in space.

    The upside to Seattle's philosophy is they can pretty much find success running the ball against anyone, and they tend to get more effective as the game goes on. This opens up the deep passing game and is one of the #1 reasons why they are among the lead leaders in explosive plays.

    Shanahan's offense relies on confusing the defense in the running game and using play-action / misdirection off the run to get receivers space to run after the catch. The problem with his offense is when defenses stop the run and contain the screen passes, 90% of their playbook goes out the window.


    That's not really the criticism. It's running from the same look/formation to the same spot(up the middle usually) even if it isn't working. They did it over and over vs Greenbay and the Packers looked liked they knew exactly how to defend it and knew exactly what was coming. You can still use variety in the run game with a bigger slower oline, instead of running the same play from the same formation, up the middle for no gain, repeatedly
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:43 pm
  • Homer had 62 yards on 10 carries and 5 receptions for 30 yards against the 49ers in the last game of the season mostly due to outside runs and outlet passes from Wilson. So success breeds success right? Against the Eagles we ran Homer up the gut 11 times for 12 yards. Homer got 3 carries against the Packers and 2 catches for 27 yards.

    If anyone could explain to me why you wouldn't have tried to run some plays to Homer to the outside to open up the running game that would be great.

    It is almost as if the Seahawks are repelled by bouts of success or they will force plays that don't work until they find success.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:47 pm
  • bevellisthedevil wrote:Homer had 62 yards on 10 carries and 5 receptions for 30 yards against the 49ers in the last game of the season mostly due to outside runs and outlet passes from Wilson. So success breeds success right? Against the Eagles we ran Homer up the gut 11 times for 12 yards. Homer got 3 carries against the Packers and 2 catches for 27 yards.

    If anyone could explain to me why you wouldn't have tried to run some plays to Homer to the outside to open up the running game that would be great.

    It is almost as if the Seahawks are repelled by bouts of success or they will force plays that don't work until they find success.

    I don't know. It's maddening.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:57 pm
  • bevellisthedevil wrote:Homer had 62 yards on 10 carries and 5 receptions for 30 yards against the 49ers in the last game of the season mostly due to outside runs and outlet passes from Wilson. So success breeds success right? Against the Eagles we ran Homer up the gut 11 times for 12 yards. Homer got 3 carries against the Packers and 2 catches for 27 yards.

    If anyone could explain to me why you wouldn't have tried to run some plays to Homer to the outside to open up the running game that would be great.

    It is almost as if the Seahawks are repelled by bouts of success or they will force plays that don't work until they find success.


    And with Joey Hunt at center.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:57 pm
  • cymatica wrote:
    knownone wrote:Why do so many people get enamored with these outside zone / misdirection based offenses?

    Here's the thing, Seattle built their O-line with maulers who can beat guys one on one. The 49ers built their O-line with athletic guys who can move in space and block as a unit. If Seattle tried to run those same plays, we'd see a lot more guys running free in the back field because guys like DJ Fluker can't block in space.

    The upside to Seattle's philosophy is they can pretty much find success running the ball against anyone, and they tend to get more effective as the game goes on. This opens up the deep passing game and is one of the #1 reasons why they are among the lead leaders in explosive plays.

    Shanahan's offense relies on confusing the defense in the running game and using play-action / misdirection off the run to get receivers space to run after the catch. The problem with his offense is when defenses stop the run and contain the screen passes, 90% of their playbook goes out the window.


    That's not really the criticism. It's running from the same look/formation to the same spot(up the middle usually) even if it isn't working. They did it over and over vs Greenbay and the Packers looked liked they knew exactly how to defend it and knew exactly what was coming. You can still use variety in the run game with a bigger slower oline, instead of running the same play from the same formation, up the middle for no gain, repeatedly

    The problem with games like GB, is that they tell us absolutely nothing about the effectiveness of the Hawks strategy. They ran the ball 15 times total in that game: 7 times to the right, 5 times up the middle and 3 times to the left. Yeah, they weren't effective and it looked predictable, but could that have anything to do with the guys in the backfield?

    That's why I don't think this criticism holds up when you look at the season as a whole. Looking at their stats with Carson and Penny healthy will give you a pretty good indicator of how effective they are, and why they are so predictable with directional running.

    They averaged 4.1 YPC up the middle, 5.0 YPC between the RG and C, 6.1 YPC between the RG and RT, and 5.6 YPC off tackle. That's where 63% of their rushing attempts went during the season. So if you came away from that GB game wondering why Seattle started their second series with 3 straight runs to the right side, there is your answer. They expected Marshawn to have a similar level of success as Penny and Carson against a weaker Packers run defense.

    The whole point of the Hawks system is to make you think they are going to run it to the same spot. They want linebackers and safeties to bite on play fakes so that they can take shots deep down the field or exploit the seams with their tight end. In a similar sense, the whole point of Shanahan's system is to be as predictable as possible with their formation and pre-snap motioning, so that defenses can't anticipate what's about to happen.

    What's weird to me is that Seattle's offense is better than the Niners in almost every meaningful metric. Yet here we are with people clamoring for more change. Think about it, if you swapped the Niners defense with our defense would the division have been competitive? probably not. The Niners offense probably falls to the middle of the pack and they'd struggle to win 8 games.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:45 am
  • The difference was that the nines owned the trenches. Their offensive line AND tight ends man handled greenbay’s DL. Our personnel is not capable of that type of performance!
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:48 am
  • UK_Seahawk wrote:In the last decade no team has won more games than the Seahawks in the nfc. Roland like most who are a bit intellectually challenged has been distracted by the new and shiny.

    You can flush playing percentages in the playoffs when it’s lose and go home!
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:25 am
  • Running the ball and great defense... I wonder where York and John Lynch got that idea from...

    The difference is that they've hit on many high draft picks over the last decade, while we've squandered ours.

    The reality is our roster really isn't that talented. Russ being brilliant and coaches (getting the most out of average players) oftentimes saved the day.

    However I do believe with a healthy Carson and Penny, we win the GB game despite our lack of talent on defense.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:32 am
  • We haven’t made any high draft picks? We’ve missed on mid round ones.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:43 am
  • The 9ers are running (literally) the conservative offense that no longer works for SEA.

    Jimmy G threw for a whole eight times but mostly put it in the RBs hands. One of the top RBs gets carted off, no problem, give it to the other top RB in there (Mostert) or the starter (Brieda) and if Coleman can't come back next week, just activate Wilson who's "only" gotten four TDs this year.

    Meanwhile, set up your front 4 (or really 11) mini-LOB to stuff any run attempt, spot Uncle Sherm on spying Adams even outside his LCB spot, incent Erin to throw in his direction and game literally over.

    They can do this because they have the personnel. They have the personnel largely from enduring multiple losing years without a franchise QB and a coach whose made the playoffs almost every year for the past decade. The fans are nowhere near accepting this level of pain...so how can we rebuild?
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:46 am
  • hoxrox wrote:Running the ball and great defense... I wonder where York and John Lynch got that idea from...

    The difference is that they've hit on many high draft picks over the last decade, while we've squandered ours.

    The reality is our roster really isn't that talented. Russ being brilliant and coaches (getting the most out of average players) oftentimes saved the day.

    However I do believe with a healthy Carson and Penny, we win the GB game despite our lack of talent on defense.


    Whoa whoa whoa. York got that idea from Jim Harbaugh.

    The 49ers built their teams around running and defense BEFORE Seattle went on their run. You guys just did it better an d incredible secondary
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:49 am
  • knownone wrote:
    cymatica wrote:
    knownone wrote:Why do so many people get enamored with these outside zone / misdirection based offenses?

    Here's the thing, Seattle built their O-line with maulers who can beat guys one on one. The 49ers built their O-line with athletic guys who can move in space and block as a unit. If Seattle tried to run those same plays, we'd see a lot more guys running free in the back field because guys like DJ Fluker can't block in space.

    The upside to Seattle's philosophy is they can pretty much find success running the ball against anyone, and they tend to get more effective as the game goes on. This opens up the deep passing game and is one of the #1 reasons why they are among the lead leaders in explosive plays.

    Shanahan's offense relies on confusing the defense in the running game and using play-action / misdirection off the run to get receivers space to run after the catch. The problem with his offense is when defenses stop the run and contain the screen passes, 90% of their playbook goes out the window.


    That's not really the criticism. It's running from the same look/formation to the same spot(up the middle usually) even if it isn't working. They did it over and over vs Greenbay and the Packers looked liked they knew exactly how to defend it and knew exactly what was coming. You can still use variety in the run game with a bigger slower oline, instead of running the same play from the same formation, up the middle for no gain, repeatedly

    The problem with games like GB, is that they tell us absolutely nothing about the effectiveness of the Hawks strategy. They ran the ball 15 times total in that game: 7 times to the right, 5 times up the middle and 3 times to the left. Yeah, they weren't effective and it looked predictable, but could that have anything to do with the guys in the backfield?

    That's why I don't think this criticism holds up when you look at the season as a whole. Looking at their stats with Carson and Penny healthy will give you a pretty good indicator of how effective they are, and why they are so predictable with directional running.

    They averaged 4.1 YPC up the middle, 5.0 YPC between the RG and C, 6.1 YPC between the RG and RT, and 5.6 YPC off tackle. That's where 63% of their rushing attempts went during the season. So if you came away from that GB game wondering why Seattle started their second series with 3 straight runs to the right side, there is your answer. They expected Marshawn to have a similar level of success as Penny and Carson against a weaker Packers run defense.

    The whole point of the Hawks system is to make you think they are going to run it to the same spot. They want linebackers and safeties to bite on play fakes so that they can take shots deep down the field or exploit the seams with their tight end. In a similar sense, the whole point of Shanahan's system is to be as predictable as possible with their formation and pre-snap motioning, so that defenses can't anticipate what's about to happen.

    What's weird to me is that Seattle's offense is better than the Niners in almost every meaningful metric. Yet here we are with people clamoring for more change. Think about it, if you swapped the Niners defense with our defense would the division have been competitive? probably not. The Niners offense probably falls to the middle of the pack and they'd struggle to win 8 games.


    Maybe, but I think Shanahans scheme is the biggest difference. I have no doubt that if the 9ers need to open it up, they’d be fine.

    Moreover, Wilson ability to scramble and extend plays are his biggest asset as a QB. Second his arm chucking down the field on broken plays.

    If Wilson did a hair more of that in the first half of games, Seattle might be going to the Super Bowl right now.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:55 am
  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:The 9ers are running (literally) the conservative offense that no longer works for SEA.

    No. They aren't. Running a lot does not mean you are conservative.
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:58 am
  • How many times did Jimmy G throw the ball? How many touchdowns did he throw?

    How healthy was SFs Oline and Running backs?

    How healthy was SFs early 1st round Defensive line?

    Actually, how healthy is SF compared to Seattle?

    How anyone can compare our team to theirs, is beyond me. But go ahead, blame scheme when Russell Wilson got sacked 48 times this year. We didn't have enough of an OLine left to pass block , let alone run block for an old warhorse running back and a late round, undersized rookie.
    ivotuk
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:12 am
  • The game is won at the line of scrimmage. Football 101
    hawksfansinceday1
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:34 am
  • Stanley wrote:
    hoxrox wrote:Running the ball and great defense... I wonder where York and John Lynch got that idea from...

    The difference is that they've hit on many high draft picks over the last decade, while we've squandered ours.

    The reality is our roster really isn't that talented. Russ being brilliant and coaches (getting the most out of average players) oftentimes saved the day.

    However I do believe with a healthy Carson and Penny, we win the GB game despite our lack of talent on defense.


    Whoa whoa whoa. York got that idea from Jim Harbaugh.

    The 49ers built their teams around running and defense BEFORE Seattle went on their run. You guys just did it better an d incredible secondary


    Yeah you guys had success with Gore, Willis and Bowman. But I really don't remember any dominating 49ers Dlineman in those days. Smith was pretty good.

    It's no secret that York coveted the Hawks LOB defense. And while the secondary gets most of the credit for that name... It was because we had HOGS on the Dline that could stop the run, and guys like Bennett and Avril who could rush the passer.

    Sure Kam was monster. But that Dline was ELITE. Kept our LBers clean and made our legendary secondary look a lot better.

    So now John Lynch comes along and drafts DLINE high. They hire Saleh. They acquire Sherman. They emulate the LOB defense but with added wrinkles.

    Running and great defense is a proven formula for success. You just have to field the right personnel

    When healthy, we had a great running game. We just had too many missing pieces on defense this year.
    hoxrox
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:31 am
  • Seeing the way in which the 49ers won and how the Titans advanced to the conference championship, I really think with Carson, Penny and Dissly the Hawks would have really been in the fight. That blocking TE and a deep stable of runners is so important.
    kobebryant
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:09 pm
  • Your lack of a run game cost you the first half of the Packers game. No doubt if Carson was healthy, you would have won. Lynch looked tired, old, and not in game shape. Homer, had lots of quickness, but was more of a scat back. Lynch averaged 2.2 ypc in his games back. That's horrible. Love the nostalgia and the boost to morale, but he simply does not have it anymore.
    94Smith
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:31 pm
  • ivotuk wrote:How many times did Jimmy G throw the ball? How many touchdowns did he throw?

    How healthy was SFs Oline and Running backs?

    How healthy was SFs early 1st round Defensive line?

    Actually, how healthy is SF compared to Seattle?

    How anyone can compare our team to theirs, is beyond me. But go ahead, blame scheme when Russell Wilson got sacked 48 times this year. We didn't have enough of an OLine left to pass block , let alone run block for an old warhorse running back and a late round, undersized rookie.


    16 guys on season ending IR, mostly D. Had two starting Tackles out quite a few games, starting kicker, starting TE out couple of games, starting center out a few games.

    49ers have had just as many if not more injuries this season as the Hawks.
    Washington49er
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:15 pm
  • Stanley wrote:
    hoxrox wrote:Running the ball and great defense... I wonder where York and John Lynch got that idea from...

    The difference is that they've hit on many high draft picks over the last decade, while we've squandered ours.

    The reality is our roster really isn't that talented. Russ being brilliant and coaches (getting the most out of average players) oftentimes saved the day.

    However I do believe with a healthy Carson and Penny, we win the GB game despite our lack of talent on defense.


    Whoa whoa whoa. York got that idea from Jim Harbaugh.

    The 49ers built their teams around running and defense BEFORE Seattle went on their run. You guys just did it better an d incredible secondary


    Sorta. The 9ers had Gore. They had Willis, Bow and Cowboy. But still, by 2013, you saw how the winning gameplan was basically expecting Kaep to throw to Crabtree or run it himself, get down into the EZ, and have Phil Dawson score another FG.

    They don't do this now. They don't rely on one person, even if it's the QB1. They go for the run b/c they still have three healthy guys to execute it. If JimmyD were to throw an INT, if Gould were to miss either/both of his FG attempts, they're still winning. And they do this by never relying on just one guy.
    SantaClaraHawk
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:15 pm
  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:The 9ers are running (literally) the conservative offense that no longer works for SEA.

    Jimmy G threw for a whole eight times but mostly put it in the RBs hands. One of the top RBs gets carted off, no problem, give it to the other top RB in there (Mostert) or the starter (Brieda) and if Coleman can't come back next week, just activate Wilson who's "only" gotten four TDs this year.

    Meanwhile, set up your front 4 (or really 11) mini-LOB to stuff any run attempt, spot Uncle Sherm on spying Adams even outside his LCB spot, incent Erin to throw in his direction and game literally over.

    They can do this because they have the personnel. They have the personnel largely from enduring multiple losing years without a franchise QB and a coach whose made the playoffs almost every year for the past decade. The fans are nowhere near accepting this level of pain...so how can we rebuild?



    How many times does it have to be explained that it has nothing to do with rush vs pass attempts. They are not running anything similar to anything Seattle has done. They are creative in their run game, they give different looks, they use motion all the time to create space, they use 2 back sets. Yes they have the personel to run it, but they take advantage of their personel with a smart plan. Seattle refused to change anything with backup oline and backup rbs, constantly running up the middle from the same formation, and same look. More often than not, we see games won through Wilson magic rather than a good plan. Why can't they ever make it easy on the players and attack an opponents weakness? They always make it look harder than it should be with the players they have.
    cymatica
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:35 pm
  • San Francisco had a completely different type of run game and a completely different type of back they use, they have a stable of slashers and really 3rd down type backs and stretch draw plays with a blocker they cut off of either a fullback or TE and let them create in the open.

    We have a one back set mostly using power runners that pick gaps depending on how the line gets leverage.
    chris98251
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:44 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:San Francisco had a completely different type of run game and a completely different type of back they use, they have a stable of slashers and really 3rd down type backs and stretch draw plays with a blocker they cut off of either a fullback or TE and let them create in the open.

    We have a one back set mostly using power runners that pick gaps depending on how the line gets leverage.

    No, no. Running is running and running means conservative. Just ask plenty of people around here, they can't all be mistaken.

    It's IMPOSSIBLE to be aggressive and attacking and fierce with a run game.

    :roll:
    RolandDeschain
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:23 am
  • chris98251 wrote:San Francisco had a completely different type of run game and a completely different type of back they use, they have a stable of slashers and really 3rd down type backs and stretch draw plays with a blocker they cut off of either a fullback or TE and let them create in the open.

    We have a one back set mostly using power runners that pick gaps depending on how the line gets leverage.


    These are the types of players and scheme that would accentuate Wilson's strengths. Using a mobile QB, with a designed scramble offense, with big slow olinemen makes zero sense.
    cymatica
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Re: SF scheme beating the Packers
Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:48 pm
  • According to Frank Clark, their run scheme was very tough to defend, he specifically mentioned their scheme.
    cymatica
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