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Kyle Shanahan.

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Kyle Shanahan.
Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:08 pm


  • :shock:

    Is the book written on him? He has now been at the offensive reins of the two biggest blown 4th quarter leads in Super Bowl history. I mean, he choked against Andy Reid, the king of choke jobs!

    At the very least, when Stephen A. Smith owns you, you've @#$%&? up hard.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:20 pm
  • Maulbert wrote:

    :shock:

    Is the book written on him? He has now been at the offensive reins of the two biggest blown 4th quarter leads in Super Bowl history. I mean, he choked against Andy Reid, the king of choke jobs!

    At the very least, when Stephen A. Smith owns you, you've @#$%&? up hard.

    They are ripping “Kyle the genius”, Saleh “the defensive guru”, and Jimmy “the Golden boy”, pretty hard on the Denial Zone. Entertaining AF to read, just 5 hours ago they couldn’t heap enough praise on them all.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:03 pm
  • I don't know if "getting away from the run" is a valid criticism in this game. They definitely blew that in the NE Super Bowl, and I'll give people crap with that one anytime they bring up "put your foot to their throat!' and "don't let your foot off the gas!". But they started first downs with runs after they were up 20-10; it was more akin to the (often improperly used) "run, pass, pass, punt" criticism I see regarding the Seahawks.

    Smith should probably go back and look at the play-by-play, he'd be surprised. But that doesn't make his money being analytical, just hotheaded.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:12 pm
  • Looking forward to the 9ers have a Rams like season after McVay was shown to no longer be a genius.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:31 pm
  • you cant wear that hat and expect anything much more.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:40 pm
  • Looking forward to their Super Bowl hangover season in 2020.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:14 pm
  • bmorepunk wrote:I don't know if "getting away from the run" is a valid criticism in this game. They definitely blew that in the NE Super Bowl, and I'll give people crap with that one anytime they bring up "put your foot to their throat!' and "don't let your foot off the gas!". But they started first downs with runs after they were up 20-10; it was more akin to the (often improperly used) "run, pass, pass, punt" criticism I see regarding the Seahawks.

    Smith should probably go back and look at the play-by-play, he'd be surprised. But that doesn't make his money being analytical, just hotheaded.

    They had a 10 point lead with 10 minutes to go in the game. They dropped back to pass 5 times and ran twice before the Chiefs had taken the lead back with 2 minutes remaining. I think you'd have a point if the Niners weren't averaging over 6 YPC on the ground. As it stands though, they have a run first team and the Chiefs defense could not stop them, so why put the game in Garopolo's hands?

    I think that's the issue. Even if they didn't get first downs on the ground, they'd have taken off another 2:30 from the clock while giving their defense a chance to rest. By passing, they took all of the pressure off the Chiefs offense and put it on Garopolo and their defense. In other words, they did exactly what the Chiefs wanted them to do.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:21 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:you cant wear that hat and expect anything much more.


    You don't like that hat?? Looks an Rvca or maybe DC. Coolest coach cap in the league by a wide margin.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:26 pm
  • KinesProf wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:you cant wear that hat and expect anything much more.


    You don't like that hat?? Looks an Rvca or maybe DC. Coolest coach cap in the league by a wide margin.



    I like the hat.. if I was going to the mall or cruising the lanes with my friends.

    He's coaching a super bowl and dresses like he's heading to a frat party.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:50 am
  • Running team my nature and don’t eat clock up 10... and Jimmy G is not good, zero pre-snap read.. Kittle in seam open from snap, heat is coming so throw so ball is there right when he comes out the break...nope


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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:10 am
  • Image

    Shanahan was asked about the hat this week, and he says he liked it originally but has wanted to make a change. However, his wife Mandy believes changing hats now would mess with the Niners’ juju, and Shanahan says he doesn’t want to hear it from the Mrs. if he swaps hats and his team loses.

    “I liked it, but I wanted to change,” Shanahan said, per Scott Ostler of the San Francisco Chronicle. “And I told my wife I was going to do that, and she freaked out on me. She tells me that was the reason we’re winning. I know it’s not, but if I don’t wear the hat and we lose, I’ll have to deal with that forever. I’ll finish it out this year, there’s only one game left.”

    Shanahan is not the first 49ers head coach to have his wardrobe become a topic of discussion, and we don’t blame him for not changing now. Whether he’s superstitious or not, there’s no need to switch hats with one game remaining in the season. With the way the 49ers have dominated their opponents for the majority of the year, why risk it?


    https://larrybrownsports.com/football/k ... hat/535573
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:22 am
  • I can't stand his tiny logo hat or his rat face.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:56 am
  • Image
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:39 am
  • knownone wrote:
    bmorepunk wrote:I don't know if "getting away from the run" is a valid criticism in this game. They definitely blew that in the NE Super Bowl, and I'll give people crap with that one anytime they bring up "put your foot to their throat!' and "don't let your foot off the gas!". But they started first downs with runs after they were up 20-10; it was more akin to the (often improperly used) "run, pass, pass, punt" criticism I see regarding the Seahawks.

    Smith should probably go back and look at the play-by-play, he'd be surprised. But that doesn't make his money being analytical, just hotheaded.

    They had a 10 point lead with 10 minutes to go in the game. They dropped back to pass 5 times and ran twice before the Chiefs had taken the lead back with 2 minutes remaining. I think you'd have a point if the Niners weren't averaging over 6 YPC on the ground. As it stands though, they have a run first team and the Chiefs defense could not stop them, so why put the game in Garopolo's hands?

    I think that's the issue. Even if they didn't get first downs on the ground, they'd have taken off another 2:30 from the clock while giving their defense a chance to rest. By passing, they took all of the pressure off the Chiefs offense and put it on Garopolo and their defense. In other words, they did exactly what the Chiefs wanted them to do.



    PLUS - the odds of the Niners going run/run/run for a first down were probably like 80-90% in this game.

    He outsmarted himself - the Niners got stopped running the ball on first down a handful of times and then on 2nd and long ripped off explosive runs.

    It's completely counter-intuitive to be so conservative before halftime and then aggressive late in the game.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:16 am
  • knownone wrote:
    bmorepunk wrote:I don't know if "getting away from the run" is a valid criticism in this game. They definitely blew that in the NE Super Bowl, and I'll give people crap with that one anytime they bring up "put your foot to their throat!' and "don't let your foot off the gas!". But they started first downs with runs after they were up 20-10; it was more akin to the (often improperly used) "run, pass, pass, punt" criticism I see regarding the Seahawks.

    Smith should probably go back and look at the play-by-play, he'd be surprised. But that doesn't make his money being analytical, just hotheaded.

    They had a 10 point lead with 10 minutes to go in the game. They dropped back to pass 5 times and ran twice before the Chiefs had taken the lead back with 2 minutes remaining. I think you'd have a point if the Niners weren't averaging over 6 YPC on the ground. As it stands though, they have a run first team and the Chiefs defense could not stop them, so why put the game in Garopolo's hands?

    I think that's the issue. Even if they didn't get first downs on the ground, they'd have taken off another 2:30 from the clock while giving their defense a chance to rest. By passing, they took all of the pressure off the Chiefs offense and put it on Garopolo and their defense. In other words, they did exactly what the Chiefs wanted them to do.


    It was three runs and five passes but I get your point. I just don't think it rises to the same level of a throw-athon that they went with against the Patriots. And I will forever use that game as an example of why you don't chuck the ball around like crazy in order to "not take the foot off the gas". You don't want to be super conservative, but you also don't want to go completely the other way. It really depends on the situation and what you're willing to try.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:50 am
  • I think they saw the Chiefs selling out to stop the run and thought they could kill them off with some quick throws for big yards.

    They asked JG to kill the game off for them and he didn't make the plays.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:01 am

Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:47 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    KinesProf wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:you cant wear that hat and expect anything much more.


    You don't like that hat?? Looks an Rvca or maybe DC. Coolest coach cap in the league by a wide margin.



    I like the hat.. if I was going to the mall or cruising the lanes with my friends.

    He's coaching a super bowl and dresses like he's heading to a frat party.


    These dudes are so superstitous though. You don't make that change just because it's the Super Bowl. Pete wore his ugly sneakers in the Super Bowl and Belichick his sloppy hoodie - it doesn't matter that it is the Super Bowl.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:51 am
  • KinesProf wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    KinesProf wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:you cant wear that hat and expect anything much more.


    You don't like that hat?? Looks an Rvca or maybe DC. Coolest coach cap in the league by a wide margin.



    I like the hat.. if I was going to the mall or cruising the lanes with my friends.

    He's coaching a super bowl and dresses like he's heading to a frat party.


    These dudes are so superstitous though. You don't make that change just because it's the Super Bowl. Pete wore his ugly sneakers in the Super Bowl and Belichick his sloppy hoodie - it doesn't matter that it is the Super Bowl.


    I just think it's a dumb hat for a grown man to wear. The fact he wore it before and had to continue to for superstition is even more absurd.

    Carroll and PC wear ratty clothes because they are co sided with the game, not their appearance.

    Shanahan already looks like a guy who is celebrating his own hype.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:53 am
  • Torc wrote:This quote says it all, from Tyrann Mathieu: "We were grateful they got out of the run and started to throw the ball."

    (https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers ... d-run-game)


    He's just being a sore winner. I really don't read anything into that.

    In any case, apparently Shanny's hat is now one of the things that makes him unlikable? A real Pete Carroll gum chewing moment. :lol: :lol:

    If you need a sure sign of this rivalry getting activated again, it's stupid crap like justifying dislike through sartorial choices.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:43 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:I think they saw the Chiefs selling out to stop the run and thought they could kill them off with some quick throws for big yards.

    They asked JG to kill the game off for them and he didn't make the plays.


    Play-action was by far their best play call the entire game, probably the perfect call against the D the Chiefs were showing. But yes, ya gotta execute.
    Last edited by DomeHawk on Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:48 am
  • Popeyejones wrote:
    Torc wrote:This quote says it all, from Tyrann Mathieu: "We were grateful they got out of the run and started to throw the ball."

    (https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers ... d-run-game)


    He's just being a sore winner. I really don't read anything into that.

    In any case, apparently Shanny's hat is now one of the things that makes him unlikable? A real Pete Carroll gum chewing moment. :lol: :lol:

    If you need a sure sign of this rivalry getting activated again, it's stupid crap like justifying dislike through sartorial choices.


    to be honest... its a full year plus of 9ers fans on here pimping boy genius as the second coming and watching him flail around in the big game, again.

    The hat is just a reflection of what he is... a self indulgent gimmick
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Kyle Shanahan.
Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:54 am
  • Image
    Two geniuses and the best corner in the game, during happier times.


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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:02 pm
  • I wonder how Saleh's going to do when he starts losing 1st rounders off of that defensive line.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:05 pm
  • knownone wrote:
    bmorepunk wrote:I don't know if "getting away from the run" is a valid criticism in this game. They definitely blew that in the NE Super Bowl, and I'll give people crap with that one anytime they bring up "put your foot to their throat!' and "don't let your foot off the gas!". But they started first downs with runs after they were up 20-10; it was more akin to the (often improperly used) "run, pass, pass, punt" criticism I see regarding the Seahawks.

    Smith should probably go back and look at the play-by-play, he'd be surprised. But that doesn't make his money being analytical, just hotheaded.

    They had a 10 point lead with 10 minutes to go in the game. They dropped back to pass 5 times and ran twice before the Chiefs had taken the lead back with 2 minutes remaining. I think you'd have a point if the Niners weren't averaging over 6 YPC on the ground. As it stands though, they have a run first team and the Chiefs defense could not stop them, so why put the game in Garopolo's hands?

    I think that's the issue. Even if they didn't get first downs on the ground, they'd have taken off another 2:30 from the clock while giving their defense a chance to rest. By passing, they took all of the pressure off the Chiefs offense and put it on Garopolo and their defense. In other words, they did exactly what the Chiefs wanted them to do.

    Agree knowone, 100%
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:30 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:I think they saw the Chiefs selling out to stop the run and thought they could kill them off with some quick throws for big yards.

    They asked JG to kill the game off for them and he didn't make the plays.


    THIS.
    Shanahan's calls were pretty much dead on, but JimmyG/SF O-Line didn't execute/KC's Defense made plays.
    JG got the ball batted down a couple times on passes that probably would have gone for first downs.
    Also, JG passes up EZ throw to Deebo Samuel in the flat for RAC, then nearly gets picked trying to go one too many times to security blanket Kittle. Missed an open Sanders for the go-ahead score. Then got sacked on 4th down without even getting off a throw. On 4th down, JG has to at least get the ball out and give one of his receivers a chance. FAIL.

    KC was simply the Team of Destiny this year, this game, more so than any failings people want to attribute to Shanahan. If they work, they're brilliant play calls. If they don't, suddenly he's a dunce.

    KC "got lucky" when JimmyG failed to make the needed plays. Then KC "got lucky" again when Mahomes and his compadres succeeded in making the needed plays. Much more about players making plays (or not) at crunch time, not so much about Shanahan.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:41 pm
  • Just rewatching the game. If Shanahan was happy with 10-10 at halftime then Jimmy G screwed up on second down by snapping the ball with over 10 seconds on the play clock and it running.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:46 am
  • Maulbert wrote:

    :shock:

    Is the book written on him? He has now been at the offensive reins of the two biggest blown 4th quarter leads in Super Bowl history. I mean, he choked against Andy Reid, the king of choke jobs!

    At the very least, when Stephen A. Smith owns you, you've @#$%&? up hard.


    It couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy. Seriously... F that guy.

    I will NEVER root for him to win anything after his atrocious play calling in LI.

    Grats to KC.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:58 am
  • olyfan63 wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:I think they saw the Chiefs selling out to stop the run and thought they could kill them off with some quick throws for big yards.

    They asked JG to kill the game off for them and he didn't make the plays.


    THIS.
    Shanahan's calls were pretty much dead on, but JimmyG/SF O-Line didn't execute/KC's Defense made plays.
    JG got the ball batted down a couple times on passes that probably would have gone for first downs.
    Also, JG passes up EZ throw to Deebo Samuel in the flat for RAC, then nearly gets picked trying to go one too many times to security blanket Kittle. Missed an open Sanders for the go-ahead score. Then got sacked on 4th down without even getting off a throw. On 4th down, JG has to at least get the ball out and give one of his receivers a chance. FAIL.

    KC was simply the Team of Destiny this year, this game, more so than any failings people want to attribute to Shanahan. If they work, they're brilliant play calls. If they don't, suddenly he's a dunce.

    KC "got lucky" when JimmyG failed to make the needed plays. Then KC "got lucky" again when Mahomes and his compadres succeeded in making the needed plays. Much more about players making plays (or not) at crunch time, not so much about Shanahan.


    Fully agreed with this.

    If people want to blame Moseley blowing his assignment on the 45 yard pass to Hill, I'm all the way there for that. If they want to blame Jimmy for missing (and not targeting) open receivers late in the game, I'm all the way there for that too. If they want to "blame" Chris Jones for having some huge plays, or blame Armstead for not maintaining outside contain on his side while Bosa was maintaining outside contain on his side, again, let's talk. If you want to "blame" the Chiefs for being a really good team that came back over and over again throughout the playoffs, then again, I'm all ears.

    When you actually go on a play by play basis without the benefit of hindsight the Shanahan arguments just don't hold water for me, though.

    It's a topic because playcalling is the thing that you CAN second guess. Nobody gets to use hindisght to act like they're the smartest guy in the room by second guessing if Moseley should or shouldn't have blown his coverage assignment. :lol:
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:53 am
  • Popeyejones wrote:
    olyfan63 wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:I think they saw the Chiefs selling out to stop the run and thought they could kill them off with some quick throws for big yards.

    They asked JG to kill the game off for them and he didn't make the plays.


    THIS.
    Shanahan's calls were pretty much dead on, but JimmyG/SF O-Line didn't execute/KC's Defense made plays.
    JG got the ball batted down a couple times on passes that probably would have gone for first downs.
    Also, JG passes up EZ throw to Deebo Samuel in the flat for RAC, then nearly gets picked trying to go one too many times to security blanket Kittle. Missed an open Sanders for the go-ahead score. Then got sacked on 4th down without even getting off a throw. On 4th down, JG has to at least get the ball out and give one of his receivers a chance. FAIL.

    KC was simply the Team of Destiny this year, this game, more so than any failings people want to attribute to Shanahan. If they work, they're brilliant play calls. If they don't, suddenly he's a dunce.

    KC "got lucky" when JimmyG failed to make the needed plays. Then KC "got lucky" again when Mahomes and his compadres succeeded in making the needed plays. Much more about players making plays (or not) at crunch time, not so much about Shanahan.


    Fully agreed with this.

    If people want to blame Moseley blowing his assignment on the 45 yard pass to Hill, I'm all the way there for that. If they want to blame Jimmy for missing (and not targeting) open receivers late in the game, I'm all the way there for that too. If they want to "blame" Chris Jones for having some huge plays, or blame Armstead for not maintaining outside contain on his side while Bosa was maintaining outside contain on his side, again, let's talk. If you want to "blame" the Chiefs for being a really good team that came back over and over again throughout the playoffs, then again, I'm all ears.

    When you actually go on a play by play basis without the benefit of hindsight the Shanahan arguments just don't hold water for me, though.

    It's a topic because playcalling is the thing that you CAN second guess. Nobody gets to use hindisght to act like they're the smartest guy in the room by second guessing if Moseley should or shouldn't have blown his coverage assignment. :lol:



    In real time my thought was that they should be running because the Chiefs couldn't consistently stop their run game - so a run for a negative yard on first down wouldn't be much of an issue - the Niners had several explosive runs on 2nd and long throughout the game.

    Did you not think the same thing? That and the before halftime gaffe are why I question Shanahan.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:19 am
  • Not using his timeouts before the end of the first half isn't getting enough talk in my opinion. He had a chance to get the ball back with over 2 minutes but decided to just let the Chiefs run the clock.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:04 pm
  • ivotuk wrote:I wonder how Saleh's going to do when he starts losing 1st rounders off of that defensive line.


    But...but... Saleh is the best DC to ever coach the game. Anyone could get that defense to play like they did. Look how many 1st round picks they had on that side of the ball. That's what happens when you suck for so long.
    Last edited by Ace_Rimmer on Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:05 pm
  • getnasty wrote:Not using his timeouts before the end of the first half isn't getting enough talk in my opinion. He had a chance to get the ball back with over 2 minutes but decided to just let the Chiefs run the clock.


    First, he didn't have a chance to get the ball back with over two minutes. The two minute warning happened between second and third down when the Chiefs had the ball.

    They failed to convert on third down with about 1:50 left on the clock on the 49 yard line.

    In hindsight, because the Chiefs punt was a touchback, it's easy as pie to say that Shanahan should have called a timeout with 1:50 on the clock instead of getting the ball back with 1 minute on the clock.

    That's all well and good but it's using hindsight. Back in the real world in real time when you don't have hindsight, the chiefs were about 1/4 of a yard away from pinning the 49ers on the 1 yard line with that punt. Basically, with a 1/4 of a yard difference, Shanahan becomes an idiot FOR calling a timeout instead of an idiot for NOT calling a timeout.

    And as for why he wasn't expecting a touchback, it's because he's an NFL head coach and knows something that NFL fans don't know because they don't care about kicking and don't follow the game that closely: the biggest change in punting is that touchbacks off of punts have basically been cut in half in the last 20 years. They're just very rare.

    What Shanahan was doing was being strategic and playing the odds. If you get the ball within your ten yard line with under two minutes left, your strategy is to try to just get a first down so you don't have to give the other team the ball back only 15 or 20 yards away from being able to convert a field goal. I didn't object to his thinking on it in the moment, and I don't object to it now, because in the moment I didn't have the benefit of hindsight.

    If Colquitt barely pins them on the 1 instead of barely not pinning them on the 1 we're not talking about any of this. If Kittle doesn't get called for OPI down in the Chiefs redzone we're not talking about any of this either.

    When the legitimacy of an argument about strategy comes down to an inch here or an inch there after the fact, I just don't think you have a good strategy argument to begin with.

    I'm sticking with how I felt in the moment -- I understood the logic of what he was doing and thought it made sense -- because anything after that is using information that nobody had at the time to inform the decision (which just doesn't make any sense).
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:08 pm
  • Ace_Rimmer wrote:
    ivotuk wrote:I wonder how Saleh's going to do when he starts losing 1st rounders off of that defensive line.


    But...but... Saleh is the best DC to ever coach the game. Anyone could get that defense to lay like they did. Look how many 1st round picks they had on that side of the ball. That's what happens when you suck for so long.


    Exactly. It's why the Browns, Bengals, Lions, Bucs, Jags, and Raiders have all been cruising to the Super Bowl lately.

    Everyone knows that the secret to success is just being really crappy so that you can get high draft picks.

    It's precisely why I think the Seahawks would be better off being a 3-13 team.

    [/sarcasm]
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:30 pm
  • getnasty wrote:Not using his timeouts before the end of the first half isn't getting enough talk in my opinion. He had a chance to get the ball back with over 2 minutes but decided to just let the Chiefs run the clock.


    It reminded me of John Fox having 2 timeouts, Peyton Manning, Matt Prater's leg, and kneeling the ball to go to OT against the Ravens in the 2013 divisional playoff game. No balls.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:13 pm
  • That non called timeout is the ghost that will haunt them for years. You could even see Lynch in the box signaling TO. I expected them to drive and possibly score. I'm fine with the OFI it was clear on TV, just cuz they didn't call it on Minnesotta doesn't change it. Hollister got one called and we remember DJax. I still think DJax was moe of a balance move than apushoff, he went the other way.
    I also think the niners benefitted from low oppositional expectations and sort of got their early success translated into being good. Plus injuries worked out for them too. Now everyone will be up for them and give them a good fight. We almost beat those suckers twice!
    Thank goodness that JG didn't hit that wide open Sanders for the win! OMG 0-46 in 4th quarter of the SB, ouch...
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:47 pm
  • Popeyejones wrote:
    getnasty wrote:Not using his timeouts before the end of the first half isn't getting enough talk in my opinion. He had a chance to get the ball back with over 2 minutes but decided to just let the Chiefs run the clock.


    First, he didn't have a chance to get the ball back with over two minutes. The two minute warning happened between second and third down when the Chiefs had the ball.

    They failed to convert on third down with about 1:50 left on the clock on the 49 yard line.

    In hindsight, because the Chiefs punt was a touchback, it's easy as pie to say that Shanahan should have called a timeout with 1:50 on the clock instead of getting the ball back with 1 minute on the clock.

    That's all well and good but it's using hindsight. Back in the real world in real time when you don't have hindsight, the chiefs were about 1/4 of a yard away from pinning the 49ers on the 1 yard line with that punt. Basically, with a 1/4 of a yard difference, Shanahan becomes an idiot FOR calling a timeout instead of an idiot for NOT calling a timeout.

    And as for why he wasn't expecting a touchback, it's because he's an NFL head coach and knows something that NFL fans don't know because they don't care about kicking and don't follow the game that closely: the biggest change in punting is that touchbacks off of punts have basically been cut in half in the last 20 years. They're just very rare.

    What Shanahan was doing was being strategic and playing the odds. If you get the ball within your ten yard line with under two minutes left, your strategy is to try to just get a first down so you don't have to give the other team the ball back only 15 or 20 yards away from being able to convert a field goal. I didn't object to his thinking on it in the moment, and I don't object to it now, because in the moment I didn't have the benefit of hindsight.

    If Colquitt barely pins them on the 1 instead of barely not pinning them on the 1 we're not talking about any of this. If Kittle doesn't get called for OPI down in the Chiefs redzone we're not talking about any of this either.

    When the legitimacy of an argument about strategy comes down to an inch here or an inch there after the fact, I just don't think you have a good strategy argument to begin with.

    I'm sticking with how I felt in the moment -- I understood the logic of what he was doing and thought it made sense -- because anything after that is using information that nobody had at the time to inform the decision (which just doesn't make any sense).


    The scenario at the end of the half is shocking to Seahawk fans because that's the one situation the Hawks go balls out almost every time because, well...Russell Wilson.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:53 pm
  • evergreen wrote:That non called timeout is the ghost that will haunt them for years


    This is where I disagree and think 9ers fans are onto something.

    The Malcolm Butler interception has and will haunt Hawks fans for years. It will be replayed in packages of big super bowl plays for the rest of their lives.

    Kyle not calling a timeout before the end of the second half is a detail nobody will care about next week. It will contribute to the narrative about him not being able to win the big one (the same way that narrative was around Reid until four days ago and practically nobody remembers most of those details either), but as an actual memorable thing, it won't be. It was too debatable and way too early in the game to get remembered.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:55 pm
  • Shanahan is Bevell.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:11 pm
  • Largent80 wrote:Shanahan is Bevell.
    LOL.
    Oh no you didn’t?
    You just insulted “the genius” that is KS.

    :snack:
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:07 pm
  • I agree with the analysis that agreed not calling the timeout before the punt and not risk getting pinned. But no reason then not to get aggressive from the 20....unless there is something to not trusting his QB
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:40 am
  • Popeyejones wrote:
    getnasty wrote:Not using his timeouts before the end of the first half isn't getting enough talk in my opinion. He had a chance to get the ball back with over 2 minutes but decided to just let the Chiefs run the clock.


    First, he didn't have a chance to get the ball back with over two minutes. The two minute warning happened between second and third down when the Chiefs had the ball.

    They failed to convert on third down with about 1:50 left on the clock on the 49 yard line.

    In hindsight, because the Chiefs punt was a touchback, it's easy as pie to say that Shanahan should have called a timeout with 1:50 on the clock instead of getting the ball back with 1 minute on the clock.

    That's all well and good but it's using hindsight. Back in the real world in real time when you don't have hindsight, the chiefs were about 1/4 of a yard away from pinning the 49ers on the 1 yard line with that punt. Basically, with a 1/4 of a yard difference, Shanahan becomes an idiot FOR calling a timeout instead of an idiot for NOT calling a timeout.

    And as for why he wasn't expecting a touchback, it's because he's an NFL head coach and knows something that NFL fans don't know because they don't care about kicking and don't follow the game that closely: the biggest change in punting is that touchbacks off of punts have basically been cut in half in the last 20 years. They're just very rare.

    What Shanahan was doing was being strategic and playing the odds. If you get the ball within your ten yard line with under two minutes left, your strategy is to try to just get a first down so you don't have to give the other team the ball back only 15 or 20 yards away from being able to convert a field goal. I didn't object to his thinking on it in the moment, and I don't object to it now, because in the moment I didn't have the benefit of hindsight.

    If Colquitt barely pins them on the 1 instead of barely not pinning them on the 1 we're not talking about any of this. If Kittle doesn't get called for OPI down in the Chiefs redzone we're not talking about any of this either.

    When the legitimacy of an argument about strategy comes down to an inch here or an inch there after the fact, I just don't think you have a good strategy argument to begin with.

    I'm sticking with how I felt in the moment -- I understood the logic of what he was doing and thought it made sense -- because anything after that is using information that nobody had at the time to inform the decision (which just doesn't make any sense).


    Why argue anything in the NFL then, literally every play comes down to inches. I undsrstand what your saying i just think being a offensive guy and realizing your playing a Chiefs team that is explosive that he should have more aggressive in that moment.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:45 am
  • getnasty wrote:Why argue anything in the NFL then, literally every play comes down to inches. I undsrstand what your saying i just think being a offensive guy and realizing your playing a Chiefs team that is explosive that he should have more aggressive in that moment.


    Yeah, my point about inches isn't that plays come down to inches, but that it's that fact that makes after-the-fact strategy grandstanding so fruitless.

    That there's been a sharp decline in touchbacks off of punts that know-it-all fans don't know about, and that Colquitt was a quarter of a yard away from downing the punt inside the one just gives texture to the situation -- it's my attempt to try to rip people back (not you, just generally) from their know-it-all hindsight and try to actually evaluate the decision in the situation in which it occured.

    When I saw he wasn't calling a timeout my first thought was "why isn't he doing that", and before the punt happened I thought through the variables on it and decided I understood the decision. Part of that was the realization that the punt was from 50 and if it was fair caught the probability shifted to about 5% of the 9ers scoring, 60% of neither team scoring, and 35% of the Chiefs scoring before halftime. I also considered that the strategy made sense given that the 9ers, not the Chiefs were getting the ball back after halftime.

    With the benefit of hindsight (and knowing the punt was a touchback) I'd like to take back that decision too, but you don't get to criticize people using hindsight, because they don't get hindsight when they make decisions.

    My point about the inches thing was just how you flip a couple things that are easily flippable (punt downed at the 1 instead of in the endzone, Kittle not called for OPI) and magically all these hindsight geniuses don't have sh1t to say. :lol: That's very telling to me.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:38 am
  • Hindsight geniuses are armchair coaches.

    However, you'd expect your head coach, one who is being constantly lauded for his ingenuity and planning, to have prepared for a number of different scenarios.

    Instead, he looked frozen by the moment more than once. As did the DC, who seemed to enjoy the camera when things were going well but failed to dial up anything remotely challenging to Mahomes in the 4th quarter with the game on the line.

    The Seahawks head coach gets a load of stick on here for his lack of preparation. It's almost comical. And yet his team is rarely out of a game, and almost always takes a loss down to the last drive.

    Shanahan, and to a lesser degree Saleh, had their one plan and seemed to offer nothing when those things didnt work.

    Those are your inches. It's not as simple as "well, if they down the punt inside the one, everything is as planned." those moments are happening on every play. The Head coach's living is made after those inches go against you.

    Shanahan didnt respond.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:44 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Shanahan, and to a lesser degree Saleh, had their one plan and seemed to offer nothing when those things didnt work.


    What? I struggle to believe that we were watching the same game.

    What, in your opinion, was the Chief's defensive strategy to open the game?

    How did Shanahan go about attacking it?

    Are you arguing the Chiefs didn't adjust? If they adjusted, how did they adjust?

    And you're arguing that Shanahan didn't make an adjustment to this?

    That gets us to about halftime. :lol:
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:15 am
  • Popeyejones wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    Shanahan, and to a lesser degree Saleh, had their one plan and seemed to offer nothing when those things didnt work.


    What? I struggle to believe that we were watching the same game.

    What, in your opinion, was the Chief's defensive strategy to open the game?

    How did Shanahan go about attacking it?

    Are you arguing the Chiefs didn't adjust? If they adjusted, how did they adjust?

    And you're arguing that Shanahan didn't make an adjustment to this?

    That gets us to about halftime. :lol:



    You're arguing that everything was going to plan and then little inches threw a wrench in things, and that people calling this out are only using hindsight (duh). But this is where coaches make their living. Shanahan's adjustments, if any, proved incorrect.

    You can easily trace the Chiefs adjustments as the 4th quarter opens on both sides of the ball. You can do this on your own, or we actually did watch different games.How did Shanahan adjust? How did Saleh adjust? They barely did, outside of throwing two more times than running, instead of vice versa, and hoping the front 4 would get that sack to kill drives.

    Shanahan was once again caught like a deer in headlights at the end of the biggest game of his career. If you want to believe it was all about inches and Shanahan was just a victim of being on the wrong side of that, go on. He's your HC.

    Coming on here week after week for the last 2 years to tell Seahawks fans how great this guy was, only to see him fail again in the biggest game, then try and blame it on inches, is just too far too convenient a narrative used to dismiss criticism.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:12 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    Shanahan, and to a lesser degree Saleh, had their one plan and seemed to offer nothing when those things didnt work.


    What? I struggle to believe that we were watching the same game.

    What, in your opinion, was the Chief's defensive strategy to open the game?

    How did Shanahan go about attacking it?

    Are you arguing the Chiefs didn't adjust? If they adjusted, how did they adjust?

    And you're arguing that Shanahan didn't make an adjustment to this?

    That gets us to about halftime. :lol:



    You're arguing that everything was going to plan and then little inches threw a wrench in things, and that people calling this out are only using hindsight (duh). But this is where coaches make their living. Shanahan's adjustments, if any, proved incorrect.

    You can easily trace the Chiefs adjustments as the 4th quarter opens on both sides of the ball. You can do this on your own, or we actually did watch different games.How did Shanahan adjust? How did Saleh adjust? They barely did, outside of throwing two more times than running, instead of vice versa, and hoping the front 4 would get that sack to kill drives.

    Shanahan was once again caught like a deer in headlights at the end of the biggest game of his career. If you want to believe it was all about inches and Shanahan was just a victim of being on the wrong side of that, go on. He's your HC.

    Coming on here week after week for the last 2 years to tell Seahawks fans how great this guy was, only to see him fail again in the biggest game, then try and blame it on inches, is just too far too convenient a narrative used to dismiss criticism.


    Whut?

    You claimed Shanahan had one strategy and never adjusted, and I asked you to explain what you thought that strategy was and how the Chiefs adjusted to make that strategy less effective, and where Shanahan didn't adjust.

    You say opening of the fourth quarter but what were the adjustments the Chiefs made? Like, actually explain what you're talking about.

    The claim that Shanahan never made any adjustments from the start of the game to the finish ignores why he went from attacking the edges and outside intermediate pass windows through the first and first part of the second quarter and then adjusted to attacking the deep middle and using traps and powers after that, and then started using RPOs and attacking the intermediate middle late through the third and 4th quarter.

    If you want to argue that those were the wrong counter moves to make based of what the Chiefs were doing by all means have at it, but just declaring he wasn't making any adjustments as the game wore on is simply uninformed.

    That Saleh didn't make any adjustments also doesn't make a lick of sense. If anything him adjusting AWAY from quarters to cover 3 coverages is what you should be criticizing him for, not just making up nonsense about him not adjsuting. :lol: :roll:

    I just really don't see what you're talking about at all reflected in the actual game that I watched.

    Re: other things you're conflating and making up:

    (1) I never made any claim about everything going to plan. You just invented that out of thin air. Please don't.

    (2) My comment regarding inches was about using hindsight to evaluate coaching decisions, nothing more, nothing less. That comment was exclusively in regards to not calling a timeout before the Chiefs fourth down in the second quarter, and the low probability of Colquitt's punt going in the endzone when punting from the 50, which changed all the math away from where you'd expect it to go, IMO.

    (3) I don't believe Shanahan just on the wrong side of inches. Unless you're exclusively talking about Colquitt's punt (which you're clearly not) you're just making things up. From watching the game I believe the 49ers were doomed by (1) The Chiefs playing very well, (2) Moseley guessing wrong and abandoning his assignment on the 45 yard completion, and (3) Jimmy really crapping the bed in the 4th quarter by (a) missing open throws, (b) misreading coverages and not making the correct throws to receivers who had been schemed open, and (c) missing out on YAC through inaccuracy on the throws he completed. (Even Jimmy himself has acknowledged this yesterday.)

    If a play is run and the play isn't there I blame the coordinator, full stop. If a play is run and the play is there but the QB misses the throw, or someone misses their block, or an RB hits the wrong hole I blame the player who made the mistake, full stop.


    4) I've been "Coming on here week after week for the last 2 years to tell Seahawks fans how great" Shanahan is? You are fully just making things up. Stop it. Times I remember even substantively posting about Shanahan:

    A) Disagreeing with Sports Hernia who thinks Schotty is a better OC than him. :lol:
    B) Criticizing him and Lynch for the way they approach the draft.

    I've spent the last two years posting about how great Shanny is every week? Show me the receipts or get outta here with the lies, man. It's just not true.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:56 pm
  • Im referencing 9er fans as a whole, as you address Seahawks fans criticisms as a whole, all within the same posts. It's an easy connection to make, Popeye. Arguing with Seahawks fans about their criticism and ignoring why they are doing it is pretty simplistic. You can do better, atleast understand the flow of the conversation. I understand your perspective, you can try and see it from that of a Seahawks board, no? You're a terrific poster. I assumed you knew what I was referencing here.

    My statement was also about the 4th quarter, as things fell apart on the 49ers. Figured that was easy to pick up on. There was little to no adjustment from either side of the ball by the 9ers, while the Chiefs changed up approaches on both offense and defense.

    You can argue where the 9ers made these changes in the first and 2nd quarters, but again, you're arguing specifics in a general conversation and acting like it's making a point, and trying to use that to prove a point I'm not even talking about.

    We can get specific about the 4th quarter if you want. Trying to be indignant about general statements though is a bad look. I am certain you have more understandings of each ot the 9ers play calls. I'm talking generally.

    The Chiefs opened up in the middle of the 3rd quarter and started taking deeper shots. They set up Sherman for a few longer hits, and went with long developing plays despite the 9ers dropping 10 yards or more in coverage. Saleh did next to nothing to address this, got caught several times hoping the front 4 rush would pay off, and saw 21 straight points scored. He left Sherman to his own devices a few times and paid the price. You can point to a play here or there where things are different. but that's not exactly germane to a discussion about the general approach, is it?

    On offense, the Chiefs threw players up at the line to stop the edge runs and bring pressure on the QB. They literally threw almost everything at the line of scrimmage. Shanahan's response was to leave the formations relatively the same but let JG try and throw as his receivers took the same, relatively long developing routes, now with pressure in his face.

    I wont have the deep dive understanding of each play call. this is what I saw as the 3rd quarter ended and throughout the 4th. Maybe it was just my impressions.

    So no, generally speaking your team did very little to nothing to stop a 21 point outburst while offering very little in return. And they lost. Deservedly. And for Shanahan, he lost again.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:41 pm
  • Don’t know why you are wasting your time Si.

    Popeye’s “all in” on Shanny and his ego will never allow him to admit him may be wrong on him. The moment got too big for KS and he has “turtled” twice in Super Bowls. Prepare to be buried by walls of text and word salad of him fighting facts that are inconvenient to his mind set.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:43 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:Im referencing 9er fans as a whole, as you address Seahawks fans criticisms as a whole, all within the same posts. It's an easy connection to make, Popeye. Arguing with Seahawks fans about their criticism and ignoring why they are doing it is pretty simplistic. You can do better, atleast understand the flow of the conversation. I understand your perspective, you can try and see it from that of a Seahawks board, no? You're a terrific poster. I assumed you knew what I was referencing here.


    So are all the "you" and "yours" in this quoted passage actually in reference to me or in reference to all 49ers fans so I should just ignore them?

    Sorry, but I don't believe you. That you, in a conversation with me, can't keep track of what I've said versus some other 49ers fan is fine, but holding me accountable for what some random person has said doesn't make any sense.

    If it did, I'd like for you to explain to me how in the world you've actually convinced yourself that Will Dissly is a better tight end than George Kittle. I think that's absolutely ridiculous of you. In all honestly I can't take you seriously because you think that.

    Don't worry though! By "you" I meant Seahawks fans, and Sports Hernia arguing that Dissly is better than Kittle. :lol:

    I don't hold you accountable for crazy things SH says just as you don't hold me accountable for crazy things Washinton 9er says. I think that's more than fair. :lol:

    Uncle Si wrote:My statement was also about the 4th quarter, as things fell apart on the 49ers. Figured that was easy to pick up on. There was little to no adjustment from either side of the ball by the 9ers, while the Chiefs changed up approaches on both offense and defense.


    Okay. Gotcha. Thanks. We substantively disagree.

    The constant in Shanahan's approach, as I saw it, was to put the Chiefs (not very good) linebackers in conflict. He opened the game by trying to beat them to the edges with the Deebo sweeps, and to get them to over-commit on play actions (the passes to Juice) and outside the number short and intermediate throws.

    In the second half the Chiefs corrected for this, and also expected Shanahan to start relying on powers and traps more, which is what he was trying to do, and what they were prepared for.

    His adjustment to that, which makes sense, was to see that the Chiefs were now loading the box and splitting their linebackers more to protect the edges when not blitzing through the A and B gaps, so he went with play actions and RPOs and rubs to attack the intermediate middle which was now wide open.

    It was, I believe, the right strategy, as evidenced by the fact that those plays were available to be had over, and over, and over again. In the fourth quarter Chris Jones just had two very good plays, and Jimmy just really, really, really sh!t the bed on hitting them (losing YAC due to very bad accuracy when he could hit them at all, and just misdiagnosing the defense and not even seeing them).

    If you want to second guess this as the right way to attack what the Chiefs were doing I'm not opposed to that, but as a strategy I think the proof is in the all 22 pudding that it was a fine one, and the players (as in, the guys I root for) just really didn't execute. That's my read on what happened on offense.

    Uncle Si wrote:Sou can argue where the 9ers made these changes in the first and 2nd quarters, but again, you're arguing specifics in a general conversation and acting like it's making a point, and trying to use that to prove a point I'm not even talking about.


    Remember that your claim was that Shanahan never changed his strategy and this was his failing, so strategy changes in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quarter all matter to the claim. If he never changed his strategy he would have been running end arounds to Deebo all game instead of using them get a defensive adjustment he wanted before moving to something else, etc., etc., etc.

    Uncle Si wrote:We can get specific about the 4th quarter if you want. Trying to be indignant about general statements though is a bad look.


    I'm indignant about your statement that he never changed his strategy because I believe that to be untrue and to not reflect the game I watched.

    I'm happy to be specific about my interpretation of the 4th quarter, as you see above, and now, below too. :lol:

    Uncle Si wrote:The Chiefs opened up in the middle of the 3rd quarter and started taking deeper shots. They set up Sherman for a few longer hits, and went with long developing plays despite the 9ers dropping 10 yards or more in coverage. Saleh did next to nothing to address this, got caught several times hoping the front 4 rush would pay off, and saw 21 straight points scored. He left Sherman to his own devices a few times and paid the price. You can point to a play here or there where things are different. but that's not exactly germane to a discussion about the general approach, is it?


    In the 3rd and 4th Saleh brought less blitzers, and stopped using quarters as much as he got more conservative and went back to his base Cover 3. This is an adjustment that I think we both agree was a bad one? My objection was to the claim that he didn't make many adjustments because he did, they were just bad adjustments. :lol:

    (I also feel the need to give the Chiefs some credit here: they've come back from at least ten down in every round of the playoffs this year, and they're VERY, VERY good on offense).

    Uncle Si wrote:On offense, the Chiefs threw players up at the line to stop the edge runs and bring pressure on the QB. They literally threw almost everything at the line of scrimmage. Shanahan's response was to leave the formations relatively the same but let JG try and throw as his receivers took the same, relatively long developing routes, now with pressure in his face.


    Yeah, I agree with all of this except for the claim about relatively long developing routes, which save for the Sanders shot (on which Jimmy probably should have tried hit Bourne on wide open 15 yard crosser for the first down) I just didn't see that at all.

    I saw him as attacking the 8-15 yard middle, which strategically I think was correct, and which just really, really didn't pan out.

    Uncle Si wrote:So no, generally speaking your team did very little to nothing to stop a 21 point outburst while offering very little in return.


    This is completely unrelated to your claim that I responded to and that we're talking about. We are fully in agreement that they didn't stop a 21 point outburst and that they didn't perform on offense either in making up for it, but it has nothing to do with anything about your claim that I responded to, which was about WHY this happened.

    Uncle Si wrote:And they lost. Deservedly. And for Shanahan, he lost again.


    Your half-assed attempt to rub salt in the wound has been duly noted. :snack:
    Last edited by Popeyejones on Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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