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Kyle Shanahan.

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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:45 pm
  • Sports Hernia wrote:Don’t know why you are wasting your time Si.

    Popeye’s “all in” on Shanny and his ego will never allow him to admit him may be wrong on him. The moment got too big for KS and he has “turtled” twice in Super Bowls. Prepare to be buried by walls of text and word salad of him fighting facts that are inconvenient to his mind set.



    I was unclear as to what I was referencing. Hopefully that clarifies.

    I am not invested enough to get into a play by play discussion about it. However, i made the post because he was confronting Hawks fans for "gloating" a bit, and I wanted to reference why they were (not him, per se, but fellow 9er fans, have been pretty arrogant about Shanahan all season).

    And then the 4th quarter, not the game. The general consensus, atleast to the naked eye, is the two of them bricked it without making many attempts to adjust to what was happening.

    Im no Stephen A. Smith, but i think i can yell as loudly about $h!t i barely know about as well as he does :)
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:51 pm
  • Popeyejones wrote:Yeah, I agree with all of this except for the claim about relatively long developing routes, which save for the Sanders shot (on which Jimmy probably should have tried hit Bourne on wide open 15 yard crosser for the first down) I just didn't see that at all.

    Uncle Si wrote:So no, generally speaking your team did very little to nothing to stop a 21 point outburst while offering very little in return.


    This is completely unrelated to your claim that I responded to and that we're talking about. We are fully in agreement that they didn't stop a 21 point outburst and that they didn't perform on offense either in making up for it, but it has nothing to do with anything about your claim that I responded to, which was about WHY this happened.

    Uncle Si wrote:And they lost. Deservedly. And for Shanahan, he lost again.


    Your half-assed attempt to rub salt in the wound has been duly noted. :snack:



    Apologies for the cheap shot.. but that was far more than half-assed. I went full ass on that one.

    I won't pretend to be as invested or as knowledgeable about the intricacies of the play calls as you are. However, just speaking from what i saw with my eyes as the game played out.

    If you want to lay out how you think Shanny and Saleh made adjustments in that disastrous 4th quarter and they didnt work, i'm all for reading it. What I perceived was a coach who kept trying to win a game (from a very general view, mind) in the same way he typically did, then sort of panicked.

    In terms of why i made the post, understand that I'm lumping your debates with Seahawks fans as you are lumping their sense of schadenfreude towards other 9er fans. It's almost like being in the Matrix, or Inception, but dumber.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:17 pm
  • He's brilliant...... :lol:
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:21 pm
  • Popeyejones wrote:
    getnasty wrote:Why argue anything in the NFL then, literally every play comes down to inches. I undsrstand what your saying i just think being a offensive guy and realizing your playing a Chiefs team that is explosive that he should have more aggressive in that moment.


    Yeah, my point about inches isn't that plays come down to inches, but that it's that fact that makes after-the-fact strategy grandstanding so fruitless.

    That there's been a sharp decline in touchbacks off of punts that know-it-all fans don't know about, and that Colquitt was a quarter of a yard away from downing the punt inside the one just gives texture to the situation -- it's my attempt to try to rip people back (not you, just generally) from their know-it-all hindsight and try to actually evaluate the decision in the situation in which it occured.

    When I saw he wasn't calling a timeout my first thought was "why isn't he doing that", and before the punt happened I thought through the variables on it and decided I understood the decision. Part of that was the realization that the punt was from 50 and if it was fair caught the probability shifted to about 5% of the 9ers scoring, 60% of neither team scoring, and 35% of the Chiefs scoring before halftime. I also considered that the strategy made sense given that the 9ers, not the Chiefs were getting the ball back after halftime.

    With the benefit of hindsight (and knowing the punt was a touchback) I'd like to take back that decision too, but you don't get to criticize people using hindsight, because they don't get hindsight when they make decisions.

    My point about the inches thing was just how you flip a couple things that are easily flippable (punt downed at the 1 instead of in the endzone, Kittle not called for OPI) and magically all these hindsight geniuses don't have sh1t to say. :lol: That's very telling to me.


    Agreed that if Kittle doesn't get called were probably not talking about it but i still didn't think it was the right call.

    Without knowing i bet there are more touchbacks then punts downed inside the 10 from where they were at on the field. Regardless i just think the mindset should have been were gonna get the ball at the 10 with 1:45 and 2 timeouts, let's go get a FG. If i'm playing the Arozona Cardinals the mindset is probably different. I sure the Jimmy G first half pick played a role in his decision making.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:42 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:It's almost like being in the Matrix, or Inception, but dumber.


    :lol: :lol: (I honestly literally laughed out loud). :2thumbs:

    And no worries on the cheap shot. I'm on a Hawks bored and don't mind. I was just being a smartass in noting it.

    I don't have much more to add on what I think happened in the 4th than I've already said, TBH. And although I clearly feel some confidence in my interpretation of it I'm not naive enough to confuse my interpretation of it with truth or anything -- TBH the couple times I've started to watch clips again since Sunday it has just been too depressing so save for looking at particular plays I haven't even gone back through.

    And just as we're winding down, it's not like I'm never critical of Shanahan: I've gotten run off the webzone more than once for criticizing Shanahan and Lynch with regards to draft strategy, and whenever it does go south for the 9ers, Shanahan being kind of an @sshole is going to be part of that story too. I also think he's too tempermental about players, and sometimes sticks with guys for too long and gives up on other guys too quickly. I also think he runs on second and long too much. :lol:

    Despite all that, the critiques of him regarding this game in particular just don't hold much water for me.

    They're about (1) playcalling on the last half of the fourth quarter (which I don't buy AT ALL-- the play calling was there and the execution just wasn't), (2) his strategy at halftime and (3) the decision to kick a FG on 4-2 from the 25 or so in the 3rd quarter.

    I think #2 and #3 ARE very debatable, but in the moment I agreed with those decisions, so I choose to live with the fact that I understood them in the moment and agreed with them, rather than second guessing them.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:48 pm
  • getnasty wrote:Agreed that if Kittle doesn't get called were probably not talking about it but i still didn't think it was the right call.

    Without knowing i bet there are more touchbacks then punts downed inside the 10 from where they were at on the field. Regardless i just think the mindset should have been were gonna get the ball at the 10 with 1:45 and 2 timeouts, let's go get a FG. If i'm playing the Arozona Cardinals the mindset is probably different. I sure the Jimmy G first half pick played a role in his decision making.


    Yeah, I don't know about TBs specifically from the 50 yard line, I just know that TBs off punts in general have been about halved in the last 20 years.

    TBH if the 49ers didn't have the ball coming back to them after halftime I think he's more likely to call a timeout there.

    Part of it could also just be that over the last three years I've seen what he has done in those situations a few times, so I've come to expect it (spread them out and run on first down and if you get a big run call a timeout and get aggressive, and if you don't just play ball control).

    We also shouldn't forget that Kittle only had the chance to get called for OPI because KC was being insanely aggressive and called a timeout with the 9ers at 3rd and 5 with 20 seconds left on the clock. :lol:

    They did that too, I think, because they also knew the 9ers were getting the ball back after halftime.

    ]
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:53 pm
  • Go Kyle Go.......You got this.

    It's just a damn I f*** up moment, (except it will haunt you for years).

    Watch Bevell videos for the offseason about what NOT to do and you will be fine....maybe.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:32 pm
  • Shanahan needed Jimmy to play like a Franchise QB at the end of the game, prior to that he had him playing like Dilfer not to lose, prior two games he had what 18 passes ? Your Franchise QB in the playoffs isn't a guy that just throws 18 passes before the biggest game of his life and then through 3 quarters does the same thing till asked to be a franchise guy in the last 6 minutes.

    Shanny doesn't trust Jimmy to win a game for him and put it on his back. That's the whole game in a nutshell.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:53 am
  • Jimmy GQ is what he is (and also ain't what he ain't). Meanwhile, Shanny gonna Shanny, and asked JGQ to be what he ain't in the end. If bevel was a head coach somewhere it would probably look a lot like the same thing. Somehow Shanny got an undeserved second chance, which bevel rightly didn't once Pete finally opened his eyes. Now that the many-first-round-picks bill is coming due, I'm afraid the future of the ninners will look a lot like the lambs last year, and the flash-in-the-pan tards before them.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:59 pm
  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
    knownone wrote:
    bmorepunk wrote:I don't know if "getting away from the run" is a valid criticism in this game. They definitely blew that in the NE Super Bowl, and I'll give people crap with that one anytime they bring up "put your foot to their throat!' and "don't let your foot off the gas!". But they started first downs with runs after they were up 20-10; it was more akin to the (often improperly used) "run, pass, pass, punt" criticism I see regarding the Seahawks.

    Smith should probably go back and look at the play-by-play, he'd be surprised. But that doesn't make his money being analytical, just hotheaded.

    They had a 10 point lead with 10 minutes to go in the game. They dropped back to pass 5 times and ran twice before the Chiefs had taken the lead back with 2 minutes remaining. I think you'd have a point if the Niners weren't averaging over 6 YPC on the ground. As it stands though, they have a run first team and the Chiefs defense could not stop them, so why put the game in Garopolo's hands?

    I think that's the issue. Even if they didn't get first downs on the ground, they'd have taken off another 2:30 from the clock while giving their defense a chance to rest. By passing, they took all of the pressure off the Chiefs offense and put it on Garopolo and their defense. In other words, they did exactly what the Chiefs wanted them to do.

    Agree knowone, 100%

    Is that John Bonham in your avatar ? Nice choice. I was into Ginger Baker @ the time too.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:20 pm
  • knownone wrote:
    bmorepunk wrote:I don't know if "getting away from the run" is a valid criticism in this game. They definitely blew that in the NE Super Bowl, and I'll give people crap with that one anytime they bring up "put your foot to their throat!' and "don't let your foot off the gas!". But they started first downs with runs after they were up 20-10; it was more akin to the (often improperly used) "run, pass, pass, punt" criticism I see regarding the Seahawks.

    Smith should probably go back and look at the play-by-play, he'd be surprised. But that doesn't make his money being analytical, just hotheaded.

    They had a 10 point lead with 10 minutes to go in the game. They dropped back to pass 5 times and ran twice before the Chiefs had taken the lead back with 2 minutes remaining. I think you'd have a point if the Niners weren't averaging over 6 YPC on the ground. As it stands though, they have a run first team and the Chiefs defense could not stop them, so why put the game in Garopolo's hands?

    I think that's the issue. Even if they didn't get first downs on the ground, they'd have taken off another 2:30 from the clock while giving their defense a chance to rest. By passing, they took all of the pressure off the Chiefs offense and put it on Garopolo and their defense. In other words, they did exactly what the Chiefs wanted them to do.


    Good points.


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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:48 pm
  • I'd be so pissed if I was a Niner fan. Once gain, Shanny probably could have run the ball every single time in the final quarter and probably won.

    Echoes of 28-3, for sure. I thought he'd learned his lesson.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:44 am
  • Unfortunately, Kyle Shanahan is still an excellent coach and will most likely keep the Niners relevant for at least the next five years or so. Dogging him because he had Jimmy Crapthebed instead of Matty Ice in this one is just cherry-picking and getting sucked into a media narrative. SF was well-prepared for each and every playoff game, including the SB, and dominated in the Divisional and NFCCG rounds. In the SB they ran into an equally good team with an unbelievably good and clutch QB.

    I believe that if every NFL team had to release their head coaches, and then teams drafted head coaches, Shanahan would easily be a lottery pick. Who do you draft ahead of Shanahan? Belichick? Reid? Payton? Harbaugh? Pedersen? Carroll? None of the above? Certainly not one-hit-wonder-boy McVay.

    The saving grace for the rest of the league is that now the Niners have to start paying everyone, and it will be hard for them to keep up the level of physical talent and depth that was on display this year.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:45 pm
  • So I'll chime in to say only this...

    ...Kyle Shanahan is and will be the coach of the 49ers and I, as a Niner fan, am very happy for that to be the case.

    I know there are calls that he would like to have back, but he can't make the call and execute the play.

    If Jimmy hits that deep shot to Sanders, this is a different conversation. If Chris Jones doesn't get his hand up to bat down a pass to a wide open Kittle, this is a different conversation.

    If the Chiefs LT is called for the hold he put on Bosa on 3rd and 15, its now 3rd and 25 instead of 1st and 10 after a 40+ yard gain. It would be a different game.

    None of these are excuses. My point is that sometimes you simply don't win the game. The team that loses the Super Bowl gets SOOOOOOO much more heat than the teams that lose the Conference Championship games. The Packers and Titans get off easy because they didn't even make it to the biggest stage.

    On that stage, people spend months and years breaking down every single decision and someone always has to be blamed. I don't see it as blame. I see it as one team had to win and the other had to lose. Period. My team was just on the wrong end of it. End of Story. Looking forward to next year.

    I still have every confidence in Kyle and would still take him over almost every other coach in the NFL.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:50 pm
  • He's a damn good coach. But, why abandon your bread and butter? They should have pounded the rock all 2nd half. You'd be likely talking about that 6th ring right now. Jimmy G has proven that when the game is on the line, he can't get it done. Yet
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:17 pm
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:He's a damn good coach. But, why abandon your bread and butter? They should have pounded the rock all 2nd half. You'd be likely talking about that 6th ring right now. Jimmy G has proven that when the game is on the line, he can't get it done. Yet


    I think Shanahan got away from the run because the Chiefs D dictated that...IE he saw opportunities there with KC selling out to stop the run.

    Those opportunities were there, but for whatever reason they didn't get to take advantage of them. Certainly, Jimmy bears some blame, but he's not alone. He also faced much heavier pressure in the 4th quarter.

    As I stated before...Sanders was open, but Jimmy missed him. Kittle was open, but Jones deflected the ball. The D gave up a freakin' 3rd and 15 for a 40 plus yard gain.

    No one player was responsible and you have to give it up the other team. Sometimes games aren't just lost. Sometimes the other team WINS them.

    Jimmy didn't have a great game. There is no question about that. Its a game of moments though. If Jimmy hits Sanders he's got about 50 more yards, no second INT and another TD. One Pass is different...and his QB rating is up to 100 for the day.

    Meanwhile its Mahomes whose stat line is less than impressive and we are all asking if he can win the big one.

    My point here isn't to make an excuse. My point here is that ONE PLAY can make such a HUGE difference in perception when putting so large a microscope on a player.

    "Can't Get It Done"? Hogwash. Its a game just like any other. They didn't make plays when they needed to. It doesn't mean they "CAN'T". It means they didn't that day. Saying anything else is just hyperbole.

    Wilson made one of the biggest mistakes in SB history vs the Pats. I don't say that to bring up a bad memory. I mention it only because on any given play any player can make that mistake. It happens to even the best. Peyton Manning threw a pick 6 vs the Saints. It happens.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:22 pm
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:He's a damn good coach. But, why abandon your bread and butter? They should have pounded the rock all 2nd half. You'd be likely talking about that 6th ring right now. Jimmy G has proven that when the game is on the line, he can't get it done. Yet


    I think Shanahan got away from the run because the Chiefs D dictated that...IE he saw opportunities there with KC selling out to stop the run.

    Those opportunities were there, but for whatever reason they didn't get to take advantage of them. Certainly, Jimmy bears some blame, but he's not alone. He also faced much heavier pressure in the 4th quarter.

    As I stated before...Sanders was open, but Jimmy missed him. Kittle was open, but Jones deflected the ball. The D gave up a freakin' 3rd and 15 for a 40 plus yard gain.

    No one player was responsible and you have to give it up the other team. Sometimes games aren't just lost. Sometimes the other team WINS them.

    Jimmy didn't have a great game. There is no question about that. Its a game of moments though. If Jimmy hits Sanders he's got about 50 more yards, no second INT and another TD. One Pass is different...and his QB rating is up to 100 for the day.

    Meanwhile its Mahomes whose stat line is less than impressive and we are all asking if he can win the big one.

    My point here isn't to make an excuse. My point here is that ONE PLAY can make such a HUGE difference in perception when putting so large a microscope on a player.

    "Can't Get It Done"? Hogwash. Its a game just like any other. They didn't make plays when they needed to. It doesn't mean they "CAN'T". It means they didn't that day. Saying anything else is just hyperbole.

    Wilson made one of the biggest mistakes in SB history vs the Pats. I don't say that to bring up a bad memory. I mention it only because on any given play any player can make that mistake. It happens to even the best. Peyton Manning threw a pick 6 vs the Saints. It happens.


    The Chiefs defensive players were quoted as “we were glad they stopped running the ball, because we were not stopping it.”

    I think up to the last Mahomes pick the Niners were averaging 6.5 yards per carry.

    I know the “KS true believers” don’t want to believe this but after the last Mahomes pick if they run the ball from there on out, the Niners win that game. Every run play if you let the clock run is going to take off at least 35 seconds including the time the play takes regardless if you gain any yardage. At some point, yes KC is going to have to use their timeouts, likely on defense. ....but if you keep getting a first down or 2 it cancels the effect of having the timeouts. The more time that is taken off the clock the more the pressure is on KC.

    It didn’t matter if KC was stuffing the box to stop the run, KC proved they were having problems stopping it.
    It’s the same BS excuse the Bevell apologists made when the “2nd and wrong” happened in SB49, NE couldn’t stop the run and they were next to last in goal line defense “when they stuffed the box”.


    Like Bevell, KS turtled when it mattered most. The moment got too big for him AGAIN.
    ...and like Bevell he made the same stubborn comment that if “he had to do it again, he wouldn’t change a thing”, and not admit fault for his poor play calls in the 4th qtr and right before half. ....oh and let’s pretend Jimmy makes that throw to Sanders, game isn’t over, still 1:30 left and I believe KC still had 3 timeouts as well.

    Poor playcalling and poor QB play cost the Niners the Lombardi trophy.

    As someone who doesn’t like the 49’ers, I hope KS never changes, doesn’t take ownership of his mistakes, and keeps doing the same thing and expecting different results. :2thumbs:
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:00 am
  • Until he actually CAN, I stick with my opinion. Good QB when he has no pressure, very Goff like when he does. And can't get it done when it counts. yet
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:48 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Until he actually CAN, I stick with my opinion. Good QB when he has no pressure, very Goff like when he does. And can't get it done when it counts. yet


    Fair enough.

    Man.

    Is it September yet? Only cure for the lost Super Bowl blues is another game.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:59 am
  • I thought you guys had that win. Hell of a season regardless.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:32 pm
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:I thought you guys had that win. Hell of a season regardless.


    It was, especially given the preseason expectations. Its gonna take a little distance though to see it in that light.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:47 pm
  • I get it. I was at 49. That interception happened right in front of me. Never been so pissed off at a sporting event.
    Later on after I calmed down, I realized it was also just as much on the defense giving up a 10 point lead in the 4th quarter. All while the offense wasn't playing add on.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:56 pm
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:I get it. I was at 49. That interception happened right in front of me. Never been so pissed off at a sporting event.
    Later on after I calmed down, I realized it was also just as much on the defense giving up a 10 point lead in the 4th quarter. All while the offense wasn't playing add on.


    I still think we would've won if Cliff Avril hadn't gotten hurt.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:02 pm
  • Cliff getting the concussion and Lane (who actually was good at that time) getting hurt killed them big time. Once they started doubling Bennett, the pass rush was gone. Next thing you know, 10 point lead gone in the 4th quarter.
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Re: Kyle Shanahan.
Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:48 am
  • Maulbert wrote:I still think we would've won if Cliff Avril hadn't gotten hurt.


    Totally. I just made that argument in the "YOUR RANKING OF THE CORE PLAYERS FROM THE SUPERBOWL YEARS" thread. Somehow, Cliff Avril was omitted from the list of core players. Avril should have been the MVP of SB48 and losing him mid-game changed SB49.

    What does that have to do with Kyle Shanahan? Nothing, really, other than that during the actual SB game, random $h!t happens that coaches have no control over, and that affect the outcome. Marvin nailed it too a few posts ago. Random $h!t like Jimmy G not hitting a wide-open Sanders for 6 and likely win. Chris Jones batting a Jimmy G throw to a wide ope Kittle. Now Shanahan is tarred by the media with this fake narrative of being a SB 4th quarter choker due to random events. 28-3? Maybe ATL defense, (not Shanahan's job that year), could have made a stop or two? SB54, 20-10? Mahomes happens. Crapthebedolo happens.
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