Kirk Cousins was never the Man for MN

When Minnesota took him on board with that big contract I (and I assume almost all of you) knew he wasn't really the guy to take them far at that time or now.

Never followed the Vikings as I'm a Seahawks fan from day one, but it's downer for Vike fans.

My brother is convinced he's great and just has never had any talent around him.

Despite 2 pro bowl receivers, a pro bowl running back, and a pro bowl tight end.

My brother can be an idiot.

Cousins needs talent around him. He's a good QB, but he's not good enough to elevate a team by himself. Looks like Indy smacked the Vikings around last week. It seems like a lot of that was on the Vikings D, which Indy had a good running game racking up yards and creating time for Rivers to throw. That Jonathan Taylor of Indy would have been a good RB for Seattle. I see why he was on our draft board.

Conversely, Cousins didn't have much of a running game to support him, and his receivers weren't getting open, untimely penalties were occurring, just a shit show by the Vikings offense. Lots of long-developing routes, and O-Line not always protecting him very well for that long.

Cousins is still a *good* QB, and won't suck this bad very often. Yes, 3 picks, 1 meaningless on a Hail Mary, 1 tipped ball, and one dumb throw into double coverage. Looks like the Vikings will have to change their offense to have more quicker, shorter routes for Cousins to not suck like he did against the Colts. As bad as the Vikings looked, the whole team, they could go 0-4 or even 0-6 to start the season. Or maybe Indy is that good, and they were at home.

Vikings screwed up by paying "elite" money to a merely "good" QB. Even worse, the Vikes gave Cousins an extension and even more guaranteed money. Cousins salary cap hit will screw the Vikes for years by making them unable to afford the talent and depth Cousins needs around him to be successful. Crap choices by the MN front office.

Cousins is a better QB than Jim McMahon and Trent Dilfer. I was recently reading an article on the ten worst to win a SB, and Jim Plunkett was #1. Theoretically, that means he could win a big game.

olyfan63":2rqls7yc said:

Cousins needs talent around him. He's a good QB, but he's not good enough to elevate a team by himself. Looks like Indy smacked the Vikings around last week. It seems like a lot of that was on the Vikings D, which Indy had a good running game racking up yards and creating time for Rivers to throw. That Jonathan Taylor of Indy would have been a good RB for Seattle. I see why he was on our draft board.

Conversely, Cousins didn't have much of a running game to support him, and his receivers weren't getting open, untimely penalties were occurring, just a shit show by the Vikings offense. Lots of long-developing routes, and O-Line not always protecting him very well for that long.

Cousins is still a *good* QB, and won't suck this bad very often. Yes, 3 picks, 1 meaningless on a Hail Mary, 1 tipped ball, and one dumb throw into double coverage. Looks like the Vikings will have to change their offense to have more quicker, shorter routes for Cousins to not suck like he did against the Colts. As bad as the Vikings looked, the whole team, they could go 0-4 or even 0-6 to start the season. Or maybe Indy is that good, and they were at home.

Vikings screwed up by paying "elite" money to a merely "good" QB. Even worse, the Vikes gave Cousins an extension and even more guaranteed money. Cousins salary cap hit will screw the Vikes for years by making them unable to afford the talent and depth Cousins needs around him to be successful. Crap choices by the MN front office.

Click to expand...

You always defended Cousins ..I thought you said he was elite in past but maybe not.
The contract was stupid from the Skins to the Vikes..He reminds me of a David Carr
type QB at best.
He is the luckiest person alive when it comes to getting paid period.

IndyHawk":2r6udl2q said:

olyfan63":2r6udl2q said:

Cousins needs talent around him. He's a good QB, but he's not good enough to elevate a team by himself. Looks like Indy smacked the Vikings around last week. It seems like a lot of that was on the Vikings D, which Indy had a good running game racking up yards and creating time for Rivers to throw. That Jonathan Taylor of Indy would have been a good RB for Seattle. I see why he was on our draft board.

Conversely, Cousins didn't have much of a running game to support him, and his receivers weren't getting open, untimely penalties were occurring, just a $h!t show by the Vikings offense. Lots of long-developing routes, and O-Line not always protecting him very well for that long.

Cousins is still a *good* QB, and won't suck this bad very often. Yes, 3 picks, 1 meaningless on a Hail Mary, 1 tipped ball, and one dumb throw into double coverage. Looks like the Vikings will have to change their offense to have more quicker, shorter routes for Cousins to not suck like he did against the Colts. As bad as the Vikings looked, the whole team, they could go 0-4 or even 0-6 to start the season. Or maybe Indy is that good, and they were at home.

Vikings screwed up by paying "elite" money to a merely "good" QB. Even worse, the Vikes gave Cousins an extension and even more guaranteed money. Cousins salary cap hit will screw the Vikes for years by making them unable to afford the talent and depth Cousins needs around him to be successful. Crap choices by the MN front office.

Click to expand...

You always defended Cousins ..I thought you said he was elite in past but maybe not.
The contract was stupid from the Skins to the Vikes..He reminds me of a David Carr
type QB at best.
He is the luckiest person alive when it comes to getting paid period.

Click to expand...

Yeah...I think that honor goes Sam Bradford.

:lol: I totally forgot about him..

IndyHawk":3pzq4wnj said:

You always defended Cousins ..I thought you said he was elite in past but maybe not.
The contract was stupid from the Skins to the Vikes..He reminds me of a David Carr
type QB at best.
He is the luckiest person alive when it comes to getting paid period.

Click to expand...

Defended Cousins? Well, I tried to LEARN about Cousins as an exercise, maintaining a thread about him for the course of a season. I don't recall ever calling Cousins "elite", but was open to being convinced by his play. He wasn't overly convincing. My interest was rooted in the college rivalry between Cousins and Russell Wilson, and leadership qualities of both that clearly inspired their respective college teams. When people made ridiculous and unfounded attacks against Cousins, I brought in facts and a more balanced perspective.

What I LEARNED about Cousins over last season is that he is a GOOD QB, but not GOOD ENOUGH to be the difference-maker, by himself, and not consistently INSPIRING enough to raise his teammates play enough to win games they should have lost. He's not Russell Wilson. But then who else is?

Indy just smoked Cousins and the Vikings, so you probably had a close-up view. Didn't look like Cousins had a running game, and he couldn't carry the team on his own. He's not actually as God-awful as he LOOKED in that game though.

Cousins could potentially win a Super Bowl, say, in a Nick Foles SB52 or Brad Johnson SB35 type of situation, with a team that is otherwise loaded. Nick Foles outplayed Tom Brady for 1 game. The difference? Foles caught his one target for a TD, Brady didn't even catch his target.

I threatened then to start a similar, season-long thread studying Gardner Minshew. I better get started on that, huh? I hope you'll participate, I enjoyed your contributions in the Cousins thread.
:irishdrinkers:

IndyHawk":weol0bem said:

olyfan63":weol0bem said:

Cousins needs talent around him. He's a good QB, but he's not good enough to elevate a team by himself. Looks like Indy smacked the Vikings around last week. It seems like a lot of that was on the Vikings D, which Indy had a good running game racking up yards and creating time for Rivers to throw. That Jonathan Taylor of Indy would have been a good RB for Seattle. I see why he was on our draft board.

Conversely, Cousins didn't have much of a running game to support him, and his receivers weren't getting open, untimely penalties were occurring, just a $h!t show by the Vikings offense. Lots of long-developing routes, and O-Line not always protecting him very well for that long.

Cousins is still a *good* QB, and won't suck this bad very often. Yes, 3 picks, 1 meaningless on a Hail Mary, 1 tipped ball, and one dumb throw into double coverage. Looks like the Vikings will have to change their offense to have more quicker, shorter routes for Cousins to not suck like he did against the Colts. As bad as the Vikings looked, the whole team, they could go 0-4 or even 0-6 to start the season. Or maybe Indy is that good, and they were at home.

Vikings screwed up by paying "elite" money to a merely "good" QB. Even worse, the Vikes gave Cousins an extension and even more guaranteed money. Cousins salary cap hit will screw the Vikes for years by making them unable to afford the talent and depth Cousins needs around him to be successful. Crap choices by the MN front office.

Click to expand...

You always defended Cousins ..I thought you said he was elite in past but maybe not.
The contract was stupid from the Skins to the Vikes..He reminds me of a David Carr
type QB at best.
He is the luckiest person alive when it comes to getting paid period.

Click to expand...

Oly did, and I think inferred that he knew Cousins on a personal level. Even exchanging pre or post game texts.

He mightve been kidding.

Cousins is a decent qb with time to throw and targets. His passing range is average, but he can make some good throws. He cannot move in the pocket and he cannot operate without time. Defenses always sem to scheme their way to success against him when the game matters, if that makes sense.

Dumping Diggs, signing cook and cousins long term will hurt this team for awhile.

I think a few more losses and the vikings will be moving on from Cousins and Zimmer, as well as their GM.

Uncle Si":3clfql81 said:

Oly did, and I think inferred that he knew Cousins on a personal level. Even exchanging pre or post game texts.

He mightve been kidding.

Cousins is a decent qb with time to throw and targets. His passing range is average, but he can make some good throws. He cannot move in the pocket and he cannot operate without time. Defenses always sem to scheme their way to success against him when the game matters, if that makes sense.

Dumping Diggs, signing cook and cousins long term will hurt this team for awhile.

I think a few more losses and the vikings will be moving on from Cousins and Zimmer, as well as their GM.

Click to expand...

Something we fully agree on! And thank you for your contributions to that thread and the learning.
I didn't imagine anyone would take the idea that I was texting back and forth with Cousins before or after each game seriously; it was a humorous storytelling device.

What you just said, "defenses always seem to scheme their way to success against (Cousins) when the game matters", seems like a great explanation for so many things. It also suggests the Minny offense doesn't have a range of enough weapons and balance to punish teams who overemphasize shutting down one aspect. It could also suggest that Cousins (and his coordinator(s)) doesn't mentally adjust quickly enough in-game to the opposing defense's game plan.

Never say never, the light bulb could truly go on for Cousins and the offense, say, Cousins could be as good as 2005 Matt Hasselbeck, but that version of Hass had peak Shaun Alexander, and that powerful O-Line with Walter Jones, Steve Hutchinson & co., and other weapons. Dalvin Cook is pretty awesome when healthy, but seems like he's injured a lot, and there's a big dropoff when he's out.

It's hard to see how the Vikings could put together an overall talented-enough team while tying up $35M or whatever it is on Cousins.