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Stafford traded to Rams for Goff and lots of draft picks

Discuss any and all NFL-related topics. Ex-Seahawks fall into NFL topics. LANGUAGE: PG-13
  • Fade wrote:The Rams already traded two 1st rounders for Jalen Ramsey. They will have no 1st round picks for a long time. They will also eat a crap ton of proration from Goff's contract. Again, proving the salary cap is a myth. You can always move money around.

    This is an amazing trade for the Rams. The Rams were the best team in the NFL last year, not factoring in QB.

    They have it all, a smart coaching staff, #1 Defense, Top 5 O-Line, very strong at the skill positions. Now they have a QB who is fringe top 10. The only question I have with Stafford is health. If he can stay healthy, I'd make the Rams the favorites to come out of the NFC.

    Unlike the Seahawks who mortgaged the farm last year for a Safety, LOL. The Rams were actually 1 player away, and now they have him.



    Based on? His incredible playoff record? Watson, Rodgers, Wilson take the Lions into the post season... Stafford ? Nope
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  • Ambrose83 wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Stafford will have a running game and a line, he a quick thinker and reads fast, something that Goff was not good at, the quick passing game and reading a receiver before he is open will be a problem for everyone now.

    This is a chance for Stafford to show why he was drafted so high finally, he doesn't have to win every game by himself anymore, he runs better then people realize, won't be a Wilson or a Watson, but not a sitting duck either.



    He wasn't even that good at Georgia, look at his records


    Posts like this make me want to go back and be a Raiders, Ram fan sometimes. It's 2021, he isn't at Georgia, he has a complete team under him, he was successful given his limitations with the Lions and what they gave him to work with and support him with.

    When you all b!@ch about losing again to the Rams I can now say well he wasn't that good at Georgia?
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  • Fox0r wrote:
    Fade wrote:The Rams already traded two 1st rounders for Jalen Ramsey. They will have no 1st round picks for a long time. They will also eat a crap ton of proration from Goff's contract. Again, proving the salary cap is a myth. You can always move money around.

    This is an amazing trade for the Rams. The Rams were the best team in the NFL last year, not factoring in QB.

    They have it all, a smart coaching staff, #1 Defense, Top 5 O-Line, very strong at the skill positions. Now they have a QB who is fringe top 10. The only question I have with Stafford is health. If he can stay healthy, I'd make the Rams the favorites to come out of the NFC.

    Unlike the Seahawks who mortgaged the farm last year for a Safety, LOL. The Rams were actually 1 player away, and now they have him.


    There was literally almost no difference between Stafford and Goff's output last year and Goff has a higher QB rating over the course of his career than Matt Stafford. Where do you get this magical idea they're suddenly going to turn the corner with the same QB production? Not to mention, they crapped on their future by investing in a QB who is passing his prime quickly.



    I think many here are selling Goff short

    Yeah he has some limitations, especially when pressured in the pocket, but he played the position well overall.

    I think Ram fans saw the talent on the roster and looked for an easy scapegoat for expectations falling short. Goff certainly deserves some blame for that, but I think he took way too much honestly.

    Regarding Stafford: don't great QB's elevate those around them? Great arm talent does not equal great QB.

    How many of these types of guys have we seen over the years that can sling the ball around but just dont ever win?

    Maybe its "just the Lions" and we'll see, but I am suspicious that for as talented an arm as he has, that he has never really been much of a winner.

    At the end of the day, I think Goff and Stafford are very similar. Good but not great QB's.
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    Ambrose83 wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Stafford will have a running game and a line, he a quick thinker and reads fast, something that Goff was not good at, the quick passing game and reading a receiver before he is open will be a problem for everyone now.

    This is a chance for Stafford to show why he was drafted so high finally, he doesn't have to win every game by himself anymore, he runs better then people realize, won't be a Wilson or a Watson, but not a sitting duck either.



    He wasn't even that good at Georgia, look at his records


    Posts like this make me want to go back and be a Raiders, Ram fan sometimes. It's 2021, he isn't at Georgia, he has a complete team under him, he was successful given his limitations with the Lions and what they gave him to work with and support him with.

    When you all b!@ch about losing again to the Rams I can now say well he wasn't that good at Georgia?



    What is your definition of success at the QB position?

    I know its easy to make fun of the Lions, but they have put some talented people around him over the years.

    Not sure he was put in as dire conditions as you imply.

    His lack of winning should concern a Rams fan.

    To completely dismiss that angle is off the mark imo
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  • Some of y’all imo are over reacting. Drooling and fearing of those stats that are primarily great for fantasy league numbers from a QB that comes from a dumpster of a division, where GB has owned it. I’m Stafford isn’t garbage, but he definitely isn’t as great as y’all make him out to be. Plus Seattle just poached coaching staff that help make their offense tick and play calls. Me? I think Stafford is no better then Jimmy G. He had Calvin f’n Johnson to throw too, and still couldn’t make the playoffs. But hey, keep worrying about a dude, who really hasn’t accomplished much, expect “pretty stats (heavily flawed)” from throwing to the leagues BEST Wide receiver, that was BIG. If the Rams has DK then I’d be worried. But all Stafford has done was “sling it” long ball style to Calvin most his career. His short game is a complete joke.
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  • Saw on ESPN at at the Rams haven’t drafted in the first round since 2017 and won’t until at least 2024.
    Yowsers!
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  • Sports Hernia wrote:Saw on ESPN at at the Rams haven’t drafted in the first round since 2017 and won’t until at least 2024.
    Yowsers!

    They've still managed to draft ok without it.
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  • The thing about Detroit is that they tend to run up scores early but can't finish. We have shown the same tendencies but finish more often because we rely on our QB to pull rabbits, which I'm not so sure applies in Stafford's case.

    Stafford to me is comparable to say a Cousins. Or a Rivers. Maybe even a JimmyG. Very good conventionally but not the type to pull rabbits.
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  • Hawkpower wrote:I think many here are selling Goff short

    Yeah he has some limitations, especially when pressured in the pocket, but he played the position well overall.


    - Jared Goff throws a pretty football from a pristine pocket.

    That is where his skillset ends.

    - Struggles to read coverages. McVay has to tell him the coverage over the headset, by getting to the LoS faster before the headset turnsoff.

    - Any ounce of pressure he wilts. In today's NFL, that is what you would call a fatal flaw.

    - Milquetoast personality, couldn't lead a troupe of kindergartners.

    - Doesn't feel the rush well, which can lead to unnecessary sacks, fumbles, and INTs. (Pressure he doesn't see.)

    - Consistently struggles in 3rd and long situations, when he can't be hidden on boots and playaction.

    - Unwilling runner, and when he does run it's not a pretty sight.


    McVay had to work overtime to prop up Goff. He was sick of it.


    Stafford isn't all-world (though his arm talent is), but he doesn't have to be elite for the Rams to win a SuperBowl. The Rams are the best team in the NFL. He just needs to be 12-15. McVay may elevate him to top 10. He elevated Goff, so it could very well happen for Stafford.

    If I were a Rams fan, the only thing I would be worried about with this trade is can Stafford stay healthy. Stafford's health will decide if this is a good trade or not.
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  • A lot of whistling past the graveyard here.

    We could not beat the Rams with 1/2 a quarterback when it matters.

    The win we DID get against the Rams was literally the result of screwups by Goff. Goff was usually the reason we could still win games against the Rams. And now he is gone.

    This puts the Rams far above whatever Hawks team we had. We had better hope that Carroll wakes up and lets his OC actually call plays that score TDs in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd quarters - or he is going to get left behind.

    But whatever, either Carroll adapts or he is getting left behind.

    Because we are #3 in the NFC West now. And god help us if the 49ers get a QB. We are going to be scratching to make it to the wildcard games now.

    This is one of the worst things that could have happened except maybe Watson ending up on the 49ers.

    Wow.
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  • TwistedHusky wrote: Because we are #3 in the NFC West now. And god help us if the 49ers get a QB. We are going to be scratching to make it to the wildcard games now.

    This is one of the worst things that could have happened except maybe Watson ending up on the 49ers.

    Wow.


    lol. in what world are we #3 in the NFC West? Tards didn't even make playoffs. Stop being dramatic.
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  • Fade wrote:
    Hawkpower wrote:I think many here are selling Goff short

    Yeah he has some limitations, especially when pressured in the pocket, but he played the position well overall.


    - Jared Goff throws a pretty football from a pristine pocket.

    That is where his skillset ends.

    - Struggles to read coverages. McVay has to tell him the coverage over the headset, by getting to the LoS faster before the headset turnsoff.

    - Any ounce of pressure he wilts. In today's NFL, that is what you would call a fatal flaw.

    - Milquetoast personality, couldn't lead a troupe of kindergartners.

    - Doesn't feel the rush well, which can lead to unnecessary sacks, fumbles, and INTs. (Pressure he doesn't see.)

    - Consistently struggles in 3rd and long situations, when he can't be hidden on boots and playaction.

    - Unwilling runner, and when he does run it's not a pretty sight.


    McVay had to work overtime to prop up Goff. He was sick of it.


    Stafford isn't all-world (though his arm talent is), but he doesn't have to be elite for the Rams to win a SuperBowl. The Rams are the best team in the NFL. He just needs to be 12-15. McVay may elevate him to top 10. He elevated Goff, so it could very well happen for Stafford.

    If I were a Rams fan, the only thing I would be worried about with this trade is can Stafford stay healthy. Stafford's health will decide if this is a good trade or not.


    This is close to how I see it too. Goff supporters have been trashing our OL - which finished above average in nearly every way you can measure an OL - since the Dolphins game. I'm so happy that we have a QB can actually complete a pass when under pressure.
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  • RedAlice wrote:
    Ramfan128 wrote:Hell yes!!

    Man other Rams fans are weirdly attached to Goff. You guys have more RW doubters here than I've seen Rams fans doubting Goff. Some next level group think on my Rams forum.

    Don't care about first round picks - we've drafted well without them so far in the McVay era and we usually get a few comp picks every year


    Lol. You have a waaayyyy different group of Rams fan friends than I do. Every bad game this season was immediately hate on Goff in game day chat.

    Alright, Staffords our guy now. At least we didn’t have to spend a lot of time wondering.

    :irishdrinkers:

    And as to comp picks - we have two 3rd rounders this year from losing Holmes to the Lions (who knew just how much impact that would have. Lol)



    Ha well, I've been questioning my Rams forum, but I don't really like STL or LA specific fans. Which means I prefer to chat with fans who were Rams fans through both the LA and STL days. I find that most of the forums I've visited have been populated mostly by one of those groups.
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  • pinksheets wrote:Stafford makes the Rams better, but I'm honestly rather unfazed by this.

    If Watson stays out of the NFC West, I'll feel just fine about our chances to take the division again.



    I suppose I might feel confident too if I were in your shoes, but can you really classify last year as taking the division if you promptly lose to a division rival in the playoffs?

    I do think hiring Waldron was some next level genius by Carroll. The Rams made a questionable hire in Staley last year primarily because he came from a defense that shut us down and McVay wanted to mold him.

    PC did that same thing, only with offense instead of defense. Very smart.
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  • I would have liked to have seen Stafford in SF but good god not at that price. LOL.

    If he were 25 (like another QB out there who shall remain nameless), maybe, but at 33? I'm glad the Niners didn't do that deal.
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  • 12 years of hits on that body, and soon to be 33. And hasn't really ever won big games. So there is that.
    Talk about a ridiculous trade. Not that Stafford isn't a good QB, he's clearly better than Goff. But, that is just a stupid trade. Two 1's and a 3? Hilarious.
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  • bigskydoc wrote:I love the fact that you have both Rodgers and Stafford coming on the market in a year that the Rams can't afford to trade or cut Goff. :irishdrinkers:


    Well, this certainly didn't age well. When I posted it, I thought no way that even Detroit would be dumb enough to take on the millstone that is Goff and his contract. I'll be curious to see how much of the contract they absorbed.

    Stafford to the Rams makes them my instant favorite for the SB next year. Stafford has spent his career on, arguably, the worst run team in the league. The comparisons to Cousins etc are laughable.

    He is not a prime Brady/ Rodgers / Wilson. But he is definitely in the second tier. He gives McVeigh the on-field general needed to get to the next level.

    How losing Goff can be seen as anything other than a positive for the Rams is baffling to me.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:12 years of hits on that body, and soon to be 33. And hasn't really ever won big games. So there is that.
    Talk about a ridiculous trade. Not that Stafford isn't a good QB, he's clearly better than Goff. But, that is just a stupid trade. Two 1's and a 3? Hilarious.


    You can't really even compare that offer to any other team. Part of that deal is the Lions taking on Goffs contract and thats an element not existant for any other team.

    The trade isn't:

    2 1s, a 3 and Jared Goff for Matt Stafford.

    Its

    2 1s and a 3 for Matt Stafford and Jared Goff contract relief.
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  • Fair enough. They gave up way too much, just my opinion.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Fair enough. They gave up way too much, just my opinion.


    oh...don't get it twisted. I agree with you. :)
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:Fair enough. They gave up way too much, just my opinion.


    oh...don't get it twisted. I agree with you. :)



    Nah fans (and some GMs) way overvalue first round picks. Under McVay our first rounder has never been higher than 20.

    As you say, the value was that high because of Goff's contract.

    Goff was the reason for 5/6 losses, so this is just a home run
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  • bigskydoc wrote:
    bigskydoc wrote:I love the fact that you have both Rodgers and Stafford coming on the market in a year that the Rams can't afford to trade or cut Goff. :irishdrinkers:


    Well, this certainly didn't age well. When I posted it, I thought no way that even Detroit would be dumb enough to take on the millstone that is Goff and his contract. I'll be curious to see how much of the contract they absorbed.

    Stafford to the Rams makes them my instant favorite for the SB next year. Stafford has spent his career on, arguably, the worst run team in the league. The comparisons to Cousins etc are laughable.

    He is not a prime Brady/ Rodgers / Wilson. But he is definitely in the second tier. He gives McVeigh the on-field general needed to get to the next level.

    How losing Goff can be seen as anything other than a positive for the Rams is baffling to me.


    They took everything after this year. And with what they took for this year plus what they had to keep for Stafford, were paying an extra $8 million this year for our starting QB, then Goff's contract is completely off the books.

    I think a lot of people don't realize how much McVay was pulling the strings for him. Rumor is that he was more involved with the d this year.


    FWIW, when McVay called Goff out after the second Niners game, some of us started to wonder if Goff wasn't putting in the time to get better. "First one in last one out" is a way overused phrase, but one that hasnt been applied to Goff, and while the OL got a bit worse, it was clear that Goff was regressing, and his play sure looked like he wasn't putting in the time.

    Now one of the things Ian Rappaport reported was that Goff and McVay had a difference of opinion about "work ethic"
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  • Ramfan128 wrote:
    RedAlice wrote:
    Ramfan128 wrote:Hell yes!!

    Man other Rams fans are weirdly attached to Goff. You guys have more RW doubters here than I've seen Rams fans doubting Goff. Some next level group think on my Rams forum.

    Don't care about first round picks - we've drafted well without them so far in the McVay era and we usually get a few comp picks every year


    Lol. You have a waaayyyy different group of Rams fan friends than I do. Every bad game this season was immediately hate on Goff in game day chat.

    Alright, Staffords our guy now. At least we didn’t have to spend a lot of time wondering.

    :irishdrinkers:

    And as to comp picks - we have two 3rd rounders this year from losing Holmes to the Lions (who knew just how much impact that would have. Lol)



    Ha well, I've been questioning my Rams forum, but I don't really like STL or LA specific fans. Which means I prefer to chat with fans who were Rams fans through both the LA and STL days. I find that most of the forums I've visited have been populated mostly by one of those groups.


    Everyone I know was fans through both STL and LA, most were already fans when they moved to STL (like me). I don’t know anyone who just became a fan in 2016.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:I would have liked to have seen Stafford in SF but good god not at that price. LOL.

    If he were 25 (like another QB out there who shall remain nameless), maybe, but at 33? I'm glad the Niners didn't do that deal.


    The price was that high because the Lions had to take on Goff. It was two trades in one.

    A next year's 1st (Equivalent to a 2nd rounder) and a 3rd for Stafford. And an additional 1st (Equivalent to a 3rd rounder) to take on Goff and his albatross of a contract.

    The Lions did it because they just hired a draft guy as their GM. So of course he is going to value getting more picks over anything else, regardless of taking on that Goff bloat. The Lions can take a free swing with Goff this year, and when he most likely faceplants, they can draft their Franchise QB next year, with the additional ammunition to move up if necessary.

    But, yeah. The Rams packaged it in a way no other team was going to match.
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  • Fade wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:I would have liked to have seen Stafford in SF but good god not at that price. LOL.

    If he were 25 (like another QB out there who shall remain nameless), maybe, but at 33? I'm glad the Niners didn't do that deal.


    The price was that high because the Lions had to take on Goff. It was two trades in one.

    A next year's 1st (Equivalent to a 2nd rounder) and a 3rd for Stafford. And an additional 1st (Equivalent to a 3rd rounder) to take on Goff and his albatross of a contract.

    The Lions did it because they just hired a draft guy as their GM. So of course he is going to value getting more picks over anything else, regardless of taking on that Goff bloat. The Lions can take a free swing with Goff this year, and when he most likely faceplants, they can draft their Franchise QB next year, with the additional ammunition to move up if necessary.

    But, yeah. The Rams packaged it in a way no other team was going to match.


    Ya, I realize the dynamics of the Rams paying more for the Lions to take on Goffs contract and that the two ones are actually worth LESS than the 49ers pick at 12 (by pick chart value anyway), I'm just saying I'm glad the 49ers didn't make that deal.

    I've been critical of trades the Seahawks and Rams have made with their 1st round picks (Harvin, Graham, Ramsey, Adams) but for me, the ONE position I'd move MULTIPLE ones for is QB. I get it.

    My issue with multiple ones for Stafford is his age. I didn't want the 49ers making that deal, but I understand the reasoning on the Rams side. The only problem is that you got the 33 year old QB, you gotta really hope he's in the Brady/Rodgers camp of lasting a LONG time because you may not be able to draft a guy behind him because you don't have 1st rounders, you lost a 3, and you may need to use the rest on filling holes of guys you will lose because of the salary cap.
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  • Rams have huge expenses due to their new stadium & LA fans are fickle. Rams must keep fans in the stadium. Stafford is not mobile enough to avoid the pass rush of the NFC West. I’m thinking Stafford is on IR by week 6.
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  • Honestly, I think Stafford is just icing on the cake of getting rid of Goff's contract.

    I'd go so far as to say that Stafford's fair market value is the 3rd rounder, and the Rams gave up two 1sts just for unloading the contract.

    Stafford is a big step up, but I'm not convinced he is worth even a 1st rounder in the upcoming draft.
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  • Fox0r wrote:This is one of the worst trades I've ever seen in my life.

    The Rams literally gave up two firsts, a third, and their starting QB for an older QB with a lower career QB rating who hasn't won a playoff game in 12 years.

    I'm rolling on the floor laughing over this idiotic trade.

    That's because, like so many others, you don't actually watch football except your team. I'm rolling on the floor laughing at the people who are ignorant of the fact that Stafford is at the top of the tier two quarterbacks. Stafford is one of the few players who make Mahomes-like throws and do so easily. His problem has been having offensive coordinators like Jim Bob Cooter.

    He has literally never had both a top 20 defense and top 20 run game in the same season.

    The one time he had weapons around him, he went seven consecutive years throwing over 4000 yards. Bad or even average QBs don't have 5000+ yards, 40 touchdown seasons with 16 INTs.

    Is he elite? No. But he's probably about the 11th or 12th best QB in the league. And now he has a truly competent, offensive minded head coach with legitimate weapons around him, and one of the best defenses in the league to get him lots of chances.


    Stafford is poised to have an eye popping season, and all the people who decided that statistics tell the whole story and never spent five minutes watching Stafford games are going to be surprised. For the people who have actually watched him, the projection is pretty obvious: he's going to have one of the best seasons of his career, and it's going to be among the best seasons in the league.


    Barring injury, of course.
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  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:The thing about Detroit is that they tend to run up scores early but can't finish. We have shown the same tendencies but finish more often because we rely on our QB to pull rabbits, which I'm not so sure applies in Stafford's case.

    Stafford to me is comparable to say a Cousins. Or a Rivers. Maybe even a JimmyG. Very good conventionally but not the type to pull rabbits.

    This looks suspiciously like a rabbit.



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  • JPatera76 wrote:Some of y’all imo are over reacting. Drooling and fearing of those stats that are primarily great for fantasy league numbers from a QB that comes from a dumpster of a division, where GB has owned it. I’m Stafford isn’t garbage, but he definitely isn’t as great as y’all make him out to be. Plus Seattle just poached coaching staff that help make their offense tick and play calls. Me? I think Stafford is no better then Jimmy G. He had Calvin f’n Johnson to throw too, and still couldn’t make the playoffs. But hey, keep worrying about a dude, who really hasn’t accomplished much, expect “pretty stats (heavily flawed)” from throwing to the leagues BEST Wide receiver, that was BIG. If the Rams has DK then I’d be worried. But all Stafford has done was “sling it” long ball style to Calvin most his career. His short game is a complete joke.

    Then I have reason to doubt how much you've watched both of them, or your ability to decipher QB skill. Jimmy G is about the 22nd to 28th best QB in the league. Stafford is somewhere around 11th to 15th. He's an entire rung better. He just needs a coach to harness his arm talent and make it so he doesn't have to make hero throws every play. There is absolutely no world in which Jimmy Garoppolo is fit to hold Stafford's jock. And in this case it's not so much that Stafford is so great. It's that Jimmy G is vastly over rated. The guy has bad mechanics which screws with his down the field accuracy. He isn't mobile, and he sucks at reading defenses (and seems to choose his target before the play, without adjusting post-snap).

    Whatever Stafford's flaws are, if you try to cover 1 him to death like everyone does to Jimmy G, you're going to get burned and badly. Literally everything you would ask a QB to do, Stafford does it better than Jimmy. Except maybe look super handsome.

    As for when he had Calvin, he had a 5000+ yard, 40+ TD season, and they did actually make the playoffs. That was followed by 7 straight 4000 yard seasons and two more playoff appearances on the worst run team in the league.


    Finally, regrading your complaints of his "short game," the Rams are not a drop back, quick rhythm offense. They run a variation of the Shanahan offense, which includes a ton of play-action and clearly defined reads. All evidence suggests Stafford will play his best in this scheme (as most QBs tend to do). I am really looking forward to the crow that will be served to people who are commenting without having done their due diligence in watching tape on him. By the end of next season, assuming he stays healthy and the Rams don't have to cut all their talent to accommodate his contract, there will be an argument that Stafford should be in the Pro Bowl next year. He will approach a 4000+ yard, 30+ TD season and the Rams absolutely should be the favorite to win the division, unless Seattle does some good work in free agency and the draft.
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  • Stafford is one of those guys who probably does deserve to be in the HOF, and would be a shoe in if he hadn't spent his career in a dumpster.

    Thinking of the QBs in the league. I don't particularly like ranking them, but putting them into tiers is ok

    Tier 1 - Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers

    Tier 2 - Watson, Wilson, Allen, Stafford

    Tier 3 - Jackson, Murray, Mayfield, Hebert, Carr

    Tier 4 - Tannehil, Ryan, Cousins, Prescott, Rivers, Brees, Roethlisberger, Fitzpatrick, Smith, Tagovailoa, Garoppolo, Minshew, Goff

    Tier 5 - Burrow, Hurts, Jones, Dalton, Bridegwater, Trubisky, Newton, Lock, Wentz, Darnold


    You could argue that he is more the top of Tier 3 than bottom of Tier 2, but either way it makes him better than 25 other starters in the league, and miles better than Goff.

    Still wondering if Johnson has stayed in shape and will come out of retirement, on a minimum deal, to chase a well-deserved ring.
    bigskydoc
    NET Veteran
     
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  • I'm thinking this "Football Fan" person is actually Stafford's mom. :roll:
    GeekHawk
    US Navy ET Nuc
     
    Posts: 7588
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:29 pm
    Location: Orting WA, Great Northwet


  • "Stafford Fan"
    SoulfishHawk
    NET Pro Bowler
     
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    Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:59 am
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