The "vax privacy" argument is irrelevant in the nfl

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... accinated/

Some players and fans take the stance that everyone's vax status should be private.

How's that supposed to be private when for all of last year, there was a Covid-19 list saying who was out for each game? The media certainly figured out who was a close contact versus someone who'd gotten the disease.

The nfl is also saying that teams with 85 percent vaxed players can have the vaccinated ones go back to normal. No tracers, no masks, no missing games as a close contact, no coming in early to test. It'd be extremely obvious and even more so if there was a positive and all these isolating close contacts.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the media asking whether a player has gotten the vax, given how it could impact the team. Players are of course free to not answer. But it would be a smart move for any player to contact the media or do a social saying "Get vaxed for the kids" or something like that.

I wish Russ would do a psa in front of Seattle Children's saying he and Ciara have been vaxed. Him especially, because he was on an NBC vaccination special that came out right before the US opened shots to people their age.

Its HIPPA. Some may not be thrilled with it now, but we can see how it's being used in a segregation way at MLB ball park.

Think Magic Johnson, do you think he ever got passed over for an invite over the last 30 years? People change their feelings about you once they know your health status.

Spohawks":1myerpqf said:

Its HIPPA. Some may not be thrilled with it now, but we can see how it's being used in a segregation way at MLB ball park.

Think Magic Johnson, do you think he ever got passed over for an invite over the last 30 years? People change their feelings about you once they know your health status.

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You're wrong as usual, they came out and said HIPPA is not applicable when asked the question have you been vaccinated or not, I believe it is if asked have you had Covid. Since that is a medical condition, the Vaccines are not as far as personal, it is just like School and when you want to travel, you need some shots and inoculation to be able to do it.

The thing is I do understand your thoughts, it was very unclear until recently, many at work had the same thoughts, they can tell you if they got vaccinated but not if someone had been infected.

chris98251":1y3yenvm said:

Spohawks":1y3yenvm said:

Its HIPPA. Some may not be thrilled with it now, but we can see how it's being used in a segregation way at MLB ball park.

Think Magic Johnson, do you think he ever got passed over for an invite over the last 30 years? People change their feelings about you once they know your health status.

Click to expand...

You're wrong as usual, they came out and said HIPPA is not applicable when asked the question have you been vaccinated or not, I believe it is if asked have you had Covid. Since that is a medical condition, the Vaccines are not as far as personal, it is just like School and when you want to travel, you need some shots and inoculation to be able to do it.

The thing is I do understand your thoughts, it was very unclear until recently, many at work had the same thoughts, they can tell you if they got vaccinated but not if someone had been infected.

Click to expand...

As someone who worked several years in healthcare, including in clinical research, I can tell you you are categorically wrong. The key here is anyone is free to ask directly the person whether they are vaccinated or not, but that person cannot be compelled to give up that information. This is why even in schools that have vaccination requirements today there is ALWAYS a waiver of some sort. From an organizational perspective they typically hire third parties to conduct anonymous surveys to acquire information like "is 85% of your organization vaccinated".

This doesn't apply in special circumstances where you waive some rights (military service for example), but even though that has been overcome after much fighting as with the Anthrax vaccination.

Milehighhawk":6y4f2r3z said:

chris98251":6y4f2r3z said:

Spohawks":6y4f2r3z said:

Its HIPPA. Some may not be thrilled with it now, but we can see how it's being used in a segregation way at MLB ball park.

Think Magic Johnson, do you think he ever got passed over for an invite over the last 30 years? People change their feelings about you once they know your health status.

Click to expand...

You're wrong as usual, they came out and said HIPPA is not applicable when asked the question have you been vaccinated or not, I believe it is if asked have you had Covid. Since that is a medical condition, the Vaccines are not as far as personal, it is just like School and when you want to travel, you need some shots and inoculation to be able to do it.

The thing is I do understand your thoughts, it was very unclear until recently, many at work had the same thoughts, they can tell you if they got vaccinated but not if someone had been infected.

Click to expand...

As someone who worked several years in healthcare, including in clinical research, I can tell you you are categorically wrong. The key here is anyone is free to ask directly the person whether they are vaccinated or not, but that person cannot be compelled to give up that information. This is why even in schools that have vaccination requirements today there is ALWAYS a waiver of some sort. From an organizational perspective they typically hire third parties to conduct anonymous surveys to acquire information like "is 85% of your organization vaccinated".

This doesn't apply in special circumstances where you waive some rights (military service for example), but even though that has been overcome after much fighting as with the Anthrax vaccination.

Click to expand...

No I am not and you just verified it, you said they can ask, I never said you had to comply, what they can't ask is if you have Covid, STD's, Measles or a Vasectomy.

chris98251":3fpsb7jx said:

Milehighhawk":3fpsb7jx said:

chris98251":3fpsb7jx said:

Spohawks":3fpsb7jx said:

Its HIPPA. Some may not be thrilled with it now, but we can see how it's being used in a segregation way at MLB ball park.

Think Magic Johnson, do you think he ever got passed over for an invite over the last 30 years? People change their feelings about you once they know your health status.

Click to expand...

You're wrong as usual, they came out and said HIPPA is not applicable when asked the question have you been vaccinated or not, I believe it is if asked have you had Covid. Since that is a medical condition, the Vaccines are not as far as personal, it is just like School and when you want to travel, you need some shots and inoculation to be able to do it.

The thing is I do understand your thoughts, it was very unclear until recently, many at work had the same thoughts, they can tell you if they got vaccinated but not if someone had been infected.

Click to expand...

As someone who worked several years in healthcare, including in clinical research, I can tell you you are categorically wrong. The key here is anyone is free to ask directly the person whether they are vaccinated or not, but that person cannot be compelled to give up that information. This is why even in schools that have vaccination requirements today there is ALWAYS a waiver of some sort. From an organizational perspective they typically hire third parties to conduct anonymous surveys to acquire information like "is 85% of your organization vaccinated".

This doesn't apply in special circumstances where you waive some rights (military service for example), but even though that has been overcome after much fighting as with the Anthrax vaccination.

Click to expand...

No I am not and you just verified it, you said they can ask, I never said you had to comply, what they can't ask is if you have Covid, STD's, Measles or a Vasectomy.

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You are confusing concepts here. Yes anyone can ask if you have had measles, AIDS, etc.. They absolutely cannot compel you to answer nor can they discriminate based on your answer. This is why you are highly discouraged to avoid these topics when interviewing because that can be seen as a precursor to discrimination based on EO, but the question itself isn't a violation.

EEOC has already said employers can do what they want. And functionally, as the NFL is going to a two-tier privilege system where the vaccinated get to do everything like in 2019, it's going to be extremely obvious who is whom here.

Does that cross the line on privacy? How about the covid-19 list?

I don't know what Josh Allen is proving here other than his presence, obviously, would get the QB room to have to mask up around him. If he doesn't have to attend on Zoom, that is. Of course McDermott was right. That's not fair to the team and with some UDFA or such, they probably wouldn't put up with it for long. They'd just come up with another reason, like it wasn't a fit.

The whole privacy argument is fatuous because everyone is gonna know or can figure it out.

Everyone's going to know who's on the Covid-19 reserve list. By September, anyone who lands on it will be unvaccinated except a couple "breakthrough" infections. And they'll make sure the news knows that.

The media will be seeing more player interaction soon. See who's masked or not. There will be footage.

And it's extremely obvious from Allen and a couple other guys on the Bills by even saying they don't want to talk about it. It's a bellringer that they didn't get it, obviously. Plus the media asks players whatever they want. They will surely be bringing this up.

chris98251":2a9f5grf said:

No I am not and you just verified it, you said they can ask, I never said you had to comply, what they can't ask is if you have Covid, STD's, Measles or a Vasectomy.

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Straight p-orn has required STD tests for years. Performers typically exchange tests before exchanging anything else.

Their 2004 outbreak was contained because they did the contact tracing at the time. Since p-rn is trending toward privates and cams for the money, maybe people are doing that less. But there is a precedent. And every indication that when the job was mostly just taking place in LA/SFV, that it was successful.

Spohawks":1ey9ayj7 said:

Its HIPPA. Some may not be thrilled with it now, but we can see how it's being used in a segregation way at MLB ball park.

Think Magic Johnson, do you think he ever got passed over for an invite over the last 30 years? People change their feelings about you once they know your health status.

Click to expand...

Wrong again. Read HIPPA if you want to be an authority on it.

SantaClaraHawk":2im5ha1z said:

EEOC has already said employers can do what they want. And functionally, as the NFL is going to a two-tier privilege system where the vaccinated get to do everything like in 2019, it's going to be extremely obvious who is whom here.

Does that cross the line on privacy? How about the covid-19 list?

I don't know what Josh Allen is proving here other than his presence, obviously, would get the QB room to have to mask up around him. If he doesn't have to attend on Zoom, that is. Of course McDermott was right. That's not fair to the team and with some UDFA or such, they probably wouldn't put up with it for long. They'd just come up with another reason, like it wasn't a fit.

Click to expand...

You can’t post junk like this without providing evidence that suddenly privacy laws don’t matter because of a disease. If that were remotely true people should be extremely concerned. The idea that people can “figure it out” is a total non-sequiter and if you can’t see that there is no use in discussing further because you aren’t a logical thinker. I have directly been involved in legal and HR discussions attempting to sort out the real world implications of discrimination based upon vaccination guidelines that were not in place prior to employment. It is nowhere near as cut and dry as you armchair quarterback it to be. Each business has to decide how much risk it can take approaching the legal lines. It isn’t one size fits all.

Milehighhawk":2qusmktd said:

SantaClaraHawk":2qusmktd said:

EEOC has already said employers can do what they want. And functionally, as the NFL is going to a two-tier privilege system where the vaccinated get to do everything like in 2019, it's going to be extremely obvious who is whom here.

Does that cross the line on privacy? How about the covid-19 list?

I don't know what Josh Allen is proving here other than his presence, obviously, would get the QB room to have to mask up around him. If he doesn't have to attend on Zoom, that is. Of course McDermott was right. That's not fair to the team and with some UDFA or such, they probably wouldn't put up with it for long. They'd just come up with another reason, like it wasn't a fit.

Click to expand...

You can’t post junk like this without providing evidence that suddenly privacy laws don’t matter because of a disease. If that were remotely true people should be extremely concerned. The idea that people can “figure it out” is a total non-sequiter and if you can’t see that there is no use in discussing further because you aren’t a logical thinker. I have directly been involved in legal and HR discussions attempting to sort out the real world implications of discrimination based upon vaccination guidelines that were not in place prior to employment. It is nowhere near as cut and dry as you armchair quarterback it to be. Each business has to decide how much risk it can take approaching the legal lines. It isn’t one size fits all.

Click to expand...

The NFL is attempting to comply with CDC guidance for the players. And that guidance is different for vaccinated players than unvaccinated ones.

It's not discrimination. It's being super-adherent to exactly what the CDC has said on the issue. The NFL has every motive to do that so that, at the very least, they have to worry about fewer players. They are following the CDC guidance for such players--very expensive ones to them--to ensure that if there is an outbreak among unvaccinated that everyone gets tested and isolated.

SantaClaraHawk":3afm5fw1 said:

Milehighhawk":3afm5fw1 said:

SantaClaraHawk":3afm5fw1 said:

EEOC has already said employers can do what they want. And functionally, as the NFL is going to a two-tier privilege system where the vaccinated get to do everything like in 2019, it's going to be extremely obvious who is whom here.

Does that cross the line on privacy? How about the covid-19 list?

I don't know what Josh Allen is proving here other than his presence, obviously, would get the QB room to have to mask up around him. If he doesn't have to attend on Zoom, that is. Of course McDermott was right. That's not fair to the team and with some UDFA or such, they probably wouldn't put up with it for long. They'd just come up with another reason, like it wasn't a fit.

Click to expand...

You can’t post junk like this without providing evidence that suddenly privacy laws don’t matter because of a disease. If that were remotely true people should be extremely concerned. The idea that people can “figure it out” is a total non-sequiter and if you can’t see that there is no use in discussing further because you aren’t a logical thinker. I have directly been involved in legal and HR discussions attempting to sort out the real world implications of discrimination based upon vaccination guidelines that were not in place prior to employment. It is nowhere near as cut and dry as you armchair quarterback it to be. Each business has to decide how much risk it can take approaching the legal lines. It isn’t one size fits all.

Click to expand...

The NFL is attempting to comply with CDC guidance for the players. And that guidance is different for vaccinated players than unvaccinated ones.

It's not discrimination. It's being super-adherent to exactly what the CDC has said on the issue. The NFL has every motive to do that so that, at the very least, they have to worry about fewer players. They are following the CDC guidance for such players--very expensive ones to them--to ensure that if there is an outbreak among unvaccinated that everyone gets tested and isolated.

Click to expand...

Don’t even address the original point you made and are now moving goal posts again? I will take the bait. Point me to the documented guidance directly from the CDC that specifically addresses NFL players. Heck I’ll even give it to you if they provided it specifically for professional athletes. I’ll be waiting on your made up “facts”.

Here is what the NFL is basing its guidance on.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... ities.html

Now that's for everyone, not just NFL players, but BOTH the league and the union agreed on how it's going to be as you see here. This is from nfl.com:

The new protocols, which were forged in an agreement this week with the NFL Players Association, were relayed to owners during a virtual meeting on Wednesday. Fully vaccinated players will no longer have to be tested daily, will not have to wear masks at team facilities, will not be subject to quarantine after exposure to a COVID-positive individual, will have no travel restrictions, may eat in the team cafeteria and use the sauna and steam room. They also will not be subject to capacity limits in the weight room and will be allowed to interact with vaccinated family and friends during travel.

Unvaccinated players will still have to be tested daily, must wear a mask at team facilities, are still subject to physical distancing, will have to quarantine after exposure, will have travel restrictions and will not be able to interact with family and friends during travel, and cannot eat in the cafeteria or use the sauna and steam room. They will be subject to capacity limits in the weight room, too.

Click to expand...

The union representing the league has agreed to this. Two separate systems.

So that means until next negotiations, that will be how it is. Josh Allen or whomever ends up on a covid list that's already going to be public just like any other reserve list...well the public will figure it out. And internally, they're going by what the CDC is saying by enforcing what they actually said so that they can mitigate the risk to Allen and other unvaxed guys, and they're doing exactly what they did last year about it.

However, everyone can still work. So I don't get the problem. No one's releasing anyone for not vaccinating, they're just saying that if you don't want this solution, the next best thing is what we had in 2020.

Maelstrom787":j92y2qs2 said:

Spohawks":j92y2qs2 said:

Its HIPPA. Some may not be thrilled with it now, but we can see how it's being used in a segregation way at MLB ball park.

Think Magic Johnson, do you think he ever got passed over for an invite over the last 30 years? People change their feelings about you once they know your health status.

Click to expand...

Wrong again. Read HIPPA if you want to be an authority on it.

Click to expand...

The seahawks have team doctors, they are 100% health-care related!
Enjoy that loss and come back for more anytime!
https://www.hipaajournal.com/what-is-co ... der-hipaa/

Spohawks":2c0r19g4 said:

Maelstrom787":2c0r19g4 said:

Spohawks":2c0r19g4 said:

Its HIPPA. Some may not be thrilled with it now, but we can see how it's being used in a segregation way at MLB ball park.

Think Magic Johnson, do you think he ever got passed over for an invite over the last 30 years? People change their feelings about you once they know your health status.

Click to expand...

Wrong again. Read HIPPA if you want to be an authority on it.

Click to expand...

The seahawks have team doctors, they are 100% health-care related!
Enjoy that loss and come back for more anytime!
https://www.hipaajournal.com/what-is-co ... der-hipaa/

Click to expand...

Clearly, you have not or can not read the link you've provided, as it contains no mention of vaccines or vaccination status as governed by HIPAA.

I'll help you out though, sport. Here's a quote from the same site you linked definitively stating that HIPAA does not regulate entities from asking for information regarding vaccination.

The confusion was highlighted recently when, on May 18, 2021, Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, (R-Ga) was asked whether she had been vaccinated, as she had refused to wear a mask on the House floor in breach of House rules. Greene told reporters that asking her about her vaccine status was a HIPAA violation, but this was not correct as HIPAA does not apply in such situations.

It is not only Rep. Greene who is unsure about the purpose of HIPAA and who it applies to. Several organizations have also raised concerns that asking employees to provide proof of being vaccinated against COVID-19 in order to avoid wearing a facemask, maintain social distancing, or self-isolate after exposure to an infected person may also be a violation of HIPAA.

Click to expand...

https://www.hipaajournal.com/what-is-co ... der-hipaa/

Here's another link that may be of use to you:

If you or somebody you know cannot read, you're not alone. 14 percent of American adults can't read--that's 32 million people--and 21% read below a 5th grade level. The good news is, it's never too late to learn how to read.

Click to expand...

https://www.wikihow.com/Teach-Yourself-to-Read

The teach yourself to read link was thoughtful, thanks for caring!
Point 1) Its America, there is not 1 question that is illegal as long as your intent is legal. So simply asking is not the issue at hand...its being forced to answer, that is the HIPPA issue.
787: I am doing a research project, how much for sex?
Trashy prostitute: $1.25
787: Wow, thats the same value as my football knowledge.
Totally legal conversation!

Point 2) No case has went to court about forcing an employee to say if they have had the vax or not. Why? Because employers know the emplyee does not have to provide answers...or they would.

Show me ANY WHERE in HIPPA law/NFL policy, where the employee has to answer Vax questions! If you dig deep you will find plenty of loop holes for the employees and how employers have to make "reasonable accommodations".

The NFL loves to make an example out of players who don't fall in line, but they aint forcing anything out of the players for vax reasons...because they have smart lawyers.

If the vaccine is effective, and natural immunity is effective, then why do we need different rules for un-vaccinated? At this point in time most people have either been exposed to the virus and developed antibodies, or have received a vaccination. Why does everyone have to get vaccinated when most do not need it and many doctors will attest to that.

cymatica":1rlvonln said:

If the vaccine is effective, and natural immunity is effective, then why do we need different rules for un-vaccinated? At this point in time most people have either been exposed to the virus and developed antibodies, or have received a vaccination. Why does everyone have to get vaccinated when most do not need it and many doctors will attest to that.

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Good question, but it just rrdown to how the NFL and the NFLPA have unified over this in this season.

It comes down to the fact that anyone who makes the 53 let alone the starter menu is at least a $500K guy for that year. That's already substantial investment for the team. Any team knows that they are going to have to follow two protocols for this year, and so do the players.

As far as media, well media are going to be media, especially in the event of any outbreak. That's the first question they ask, how many were vaxed.%

The team's interest here is in protecting assets worth at least $500K and many, many, several times that per year. It hasn't gotten to the point of any mandate. They're just saying that per CDC, this group of players is whom we don't have to worry about, and per CDC, you being not fully vaxed means that you have different rules since vaxes are equally and equitably convenient to everyone.

SantaClaraHawk":1sok97bd said:

cymatica":1sok97bd said:

If the vaccine is effective, and natural immunity is effective, then why do we need different rules for un-vaccinated? At this point in time most people have either been exposed to the virus and developed antibodies, or have received a vaccination. Why does everyone have to get vaccinated when most do not need it and many doctors will attest to that.

Click to expand...

Good question, but it just rrdown to how the NFL and the NFLPA have unified over this in this season.

It comes down to the fact that anyone who makes the 53 let alone the starter menu is at least a $500K guy for that year. That's already substantial investment for the team. Any team knows that they are going to have to follow two protocols for this year, and so do the players.

As far as media, well media are going to be media, especially in the event of any outbreak. That's the first question they ask, how many were vaxed.%

The team's interest here is in protecting assets worth at least $500K and many, many, several times that per year. It hasn't gotten to the point of any mandate. They're just saying that per CDC, this group of players is whom we don't have to worry about, and per CDC, you being not fully vaxed means that you have different rules since vaxes are equally and equitably convenient to everyone.

Click to expand...

So it doesn't boil down to player health or personal choice, but rather CDC guidelines regardless of how effective or safe they are. There are reputable doctors across the globe who do not agree with many of the cdc guidelines throughout the pandemic, but for some reason they are denied a platform or censored while we must adhere to CDC guidelines at all costs. This is beyond ridiculous