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Tre Lance is trash

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Re: Tre Lance is trash
Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:07 am
  • GemCity wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:Before Sunday the last competitive football game Lance played in was on January 11th, 2020. He has not played in a game in over 600 days. Since his senior year in high school, he has only played 16 games at the FCS level. This dude is basically a high school QB getting thrown into the NFL deep end.


    Most important reply in this thread. 16 games…at North Dakota State.

    He wasn’t going to come in and light the league on fire. He was drafted for his physical traits including a cannon of an arm. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see above average play from him the last half of the season and a great career ahead. I wouldn’t bet my house on it but….if you consider how “raw” he is, the experience and work SF does with him may turn this guy into something special.


    Name the last time a QB started 16 games or less in college (The FCS level no less) and became a superstar in the NFL? I literally couldn't find any digging through the history of the league. He would be the outlier of all outliers. Wilson was an outlier too, but you could point to Fran Tarkenton as a reference point to a shorter QB having great success in the league. With Trey Lance I can't point to anyone. (16 games or less)

    The closest example I could find was Cam Newton. A big, athletic QB, with enough size to run QB power as part of your regular offense, while possessing a huge arm that can attack downfield. The difference is Cam started more games in college, and dominated the SEC (that's a big difference).

    My early eval of Trey is Poorman's Newton. Newton had an up and down career, and flamed out once he hit his 30's. That is not worth THREE 1sts & a 3rd to select him.

    Trey has a lot of physical gifts, but damn he is green. Just about every layer of QB you can measure he needs a lot of work, much more than Cam needed, and he never quite got there btw. And I can see why Kyle is trying to shelve him for a year before he begins attempting to develop him in earnest. Ultimately though, it's Kyle's fault for not getting him ready, as he just basically tried to redshirt him. Which makes no sense when you know Jimmy is injury prone. I've been very unimpressed with how Kyle has handled the development (lack there of) of Trey Lance.

    And it will make the people who look at this thing deeper, that maybe Kyle is in a feud with management? He wanted Mac Jones, and management wanted Trey Lance, maybe? That's the only way some of Kyle's oddball choices make any sense.
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Re: Tre Lance is trash
Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:43 pm
  • Fade wrote:
    GemCity wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:Before Sunday the last competitive football game Lance played in was on January 11th, 2020. He has not played in a game in over 600 days. Since his senior year in high school, he has only played 16 games at the FCS level. This dude is basically a high school QB getting thrown into the NFL deep end.


    Most important reply in this thread. 16 games…at North Dakota State.

    He wasn’t going to come in and light the league on fire. He was drafted for his physical traits including a cannon of an arm. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see above average play from him the last half of the season and a great career ahead. I wouldn’t bet my house on it but….if you consider how “raw” he is, the experience and work SF does with him may turn this guy into something special.


    Name the last time a QB started 16 games or less in college (The FCS level no less) and became a superstar in the NFL? I literally couldn't find any digging through the history of the league. He would be the outlier of all outliers. Wilson was an outlier too, but you could point to Fran Tarkenton as a reference point to a shorter QB having great success in the league. With Trey Lance I can't point to anyone. (16 games or less)

    The closest example I could find was Cam Newton. A big, athletic QB, with enough size to run QB power as part of your regular offense, while possessing a huge arm that can attack downfield. The difference is Cam started more games in college, and dominated the SEC (that's a big difference).

    My early eval of Trey is Poorman's Newton. Newton had an up and down career, and flamed out once he hit his 30's. That is not worth THREE 1sts & a 3rd to select him.

    Trey has a lot of physical gifts, but damn he is green. Just about every layer of QB you can measure he needs a lot of work, much more than Cam needed, and he never quite got there btw. And I can see why Kyle is trying to shelve him for a year before he begins attempting to develop him in earnest. Ultimately though, it's Kyle's fault for not getting him ready, as he just basically tried to redshirt him. Which makes no sense when you know Jimmy is injury prone. I've been very unimpressed with how Kyle has handled the development (lack there of) of Trey Lance.

    And it will make the people who look at this thing deeper, that maybe Kyle is in a feud with management? He wanted Mac Jones, and management wanted Trey Lance, maybe? That's the only way some of Kyle's oddball choices make any sense.


    I wouldn't argue with most of that but I would say that while his 17 starts (not 16) are so few, most of the players you are comparing him too are in different situations....IE....they didn't start till their senior year, or they couldn't stay healthy...or in Cams case he got kicked off the team in Florida, went to a JUCO, and then only played at Auburn in his final year.

    COVID changed everything.

    Lance was a 16 game starter as a redshirt FRESHMAN. He'd have played an entire other season if his TEAMS schedule didn't get wiped out.

    I honestly don't know how much of a difference it would make. I have to concede that.

    I just think that the situation is so unique to the pandemic that its hard to use history as a guide.

    As for Lance/Jones, I'm convinced Lance was always his guy. That not a defense of Kyle either. It more than the guy is WAY too arrogant to let someone else talk him into taking a guy he didn't want. Kyle gets his guys, for good or for bad.
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Re: Tre Lance is trash
Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:25 am
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    I wouldn't argue with most of that but I would say that while his 17 starts (not 16) are so few, most of the players you are comparing him too are in different situations....IE....they didn't start till their senior year, or they couldn't stay healthy...or in Cams case he got kicked off the team in Florida, went to a JUCO, and then only played at Auburn in his final year.

    COVID changed everything.

    Lance was a 16 game starter as a redshirt FRESHMAN. He'd have played an entire other season if his TEAMS schedule didn't get wiped out.

    I honestly don't know how much of a difference it would make. I have to concede that.

    I just think that the situation is so unique to the pandemic that its hard to use history as a guide.

    As for Lance/Jones, I'm convinced Lance was always his guy. That not a defense of Kyle either. It more than the guy is WAY too arrogant to let someone else talk him into taking a guy he didn't want. Kyle gets his guys, for good or for bad.


    Cam started more games than Lance… in the SEC, no less.

    Whether it was COVID or an intervention from god, that isn't an excuse to draft such and inexperienced QB with that much draft capitol.

    Kyle is over aggressively not playing rookies. They are signing guys off of the street and playing them over the rookies. The conspiracy theory going around is behind the scenes he got stripped of personnel power. So he isn't playing the rookies because he didn't pick them. It makes Lynch look terrible in the process and turns him into the fall guy.

    Kyle wanted a starting QB, that is what he said at his draft presser. If he liked Lance more he would've prepared him more. Management overruled him, and though he does like Lance as a prospect longterm, and agreed to work with him. (Otherwise management wouldn't have drafted him.) Kyle made up his mind to redshirt him before he was even drafted because he had already evaluated that Mac Jones was the only available starting QB at pick 3 going into the draft.

    Where the flaw in his logic is, Jimmy G is injury prone, so you better get Lance ready regardless because he is seeing the field whether you want to redshirt him or not.
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Re: Tre Lance is trash
Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:00 am
  • Fade wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    I wouldn't argue with most of that but I would say that while his 17 starts (not 16) are so few, most of the players you are comparing him too are in different situations....IE....they didn't start till their senior year, or they couldn't stay healthy...or in Cams case he got kicked off the team in Florida, went to a JUCO, and then only played at Auburn in his final year.

    COVID changed everything.

    Lance was a 16 game starter as a redshirt FRESHMAN. He'd have played an entire other season if his TEAMS schedule didn't get wiped out.

    I honestly don't know how much of a difference it would make. I have to concede that.

    I just think that the situation is so unique to the pandemic that its hard to use history as a guide.

    As for Lance/Jones, I'm convinced Lance was always his guy. That not a defense of Kyle either. It more than the guy is WAY too arrogant to let someone else talk him into taking a guy he didn't want. Kyle gets his guys, for good or for bad.


    Cam started more games than Lance… in the SEC, no less.

    Whether it was COVID or an intervention from god, that isn't an excuse to draft such and inexperienced QB with that much draft capitol.

    Kyle is over aggressively not playing rookies. They are signing guys off of the street and playing them over the rookies. The conspiracy theory going around is behind the scenes he got stripped of personnel power. So he isn't playing the rookies because he didn't pick them. It makes Lynch look terrible in the process and turns him into the fall guy.

    Kyle wanted a starting QB, that is what he said at his draft presser. If he liked Lance more he would've prepared him more. Management overruled him, and though he does like Lance as a prospect longterm, and agreed to work with him. (Otherwise management wouldn't have drafted him.) Kyle made up his mind to redshirt him before he was even drafted because he had already evaluated that Mac Jones was the only available starting QB at pick 3 going into the draft.

    Where the flaw in his logic is, Jimmy G is injury prone, so you better get Lance ready regardless because he is seeing the field whether you want to redshirt him or not.


    1) I wasn't comparing him to Cam. You were. I just stated Cams college resume.

    2) I wasn't looking for an "excuse" for anything. We have no idea how this plays out so why do we need an "excuse"?

    3) Oi, the "starting QB" thing again. Its REALLY CLEAR if you listen to his entire comment that he meant an EVENTUAL starting QB, not an IMMEDIATE starting QB. IE, he meant they were selecting a QB with the ability to become a starter after Jimmy. In the same comment he mentioned Jimmy coming back and being the starter. The "starting QB" thing is just a red herring.

    4) Not playing rookies. Sigh. Its true that he doesn't play rookies as much as I'd like. No question. He doesn't trust them for the most part...but that's got nothing to do with Lynch. It happens BETWEEN rookies...IE, he'll favor one rookie over another. Elijah Mitchell and Trey Sermon are prime examples of that.

    He will fall in love with a guy and trade up for him and then never play him when the guy doesn't earn his trust.

    A perfect example of that would be guys like Joe Williams and Dante Pettis. Those guys were pure Shanahan picks. He loved those guys going in and quickly fell out of love when they didn't have the work habits he wanted.

    This isn't Kyle defense here either...I wish he'd play those guys more and give them a shot. Happening to lesser extent right now with another guy he loved. Brandon Aiyuk. I think this is one of Kyles weaknesses. It takes ALOT for a young player to earn his trust....tho somehow players like Deebo Samuel, George Kittle and now Elijah Mitchell have done it.

    5) This whole concept of management "overruling him" is just lunacy. Kyle Shanahan run the team. They don't do anything he doesn't want. You really think he would allow himself to be forced out of taking the QB he wanted? Are we talking about the same arrogant Kyle Shanahan? Kyle selected Lynch as his GM, not the other way around. Nothing happens on this team without Kyles approval.

    That may not be a good thing either. As I said, I'm not defending Kyle here, I just think this narrative is bonkers. This team will sink or swim with Kyle. Nobody else is pulling the strings. If you think that you aren't paying attention.
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