Jon Gruden and Raiders parting ways.

MyrtleHawk

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[tweet]https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1447731625068957697[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1447733897144455170[/tweet]
 

cymatica

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Doesn't matter what kind of person you are, if you use the wrong language, even a decade ago and in an email, you must pay. An no, using specific slurs in some instances does not automatically make you racist, homophobe, or hate filled. Sick of this crap
 

James in PA

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Wow, sounds like that one e-mail wasn’t an isolated incident.


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RiverDog

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cymatica":13rss454 said:
Doesn't matter what kind of person you are, if you use the wrong language, even a decade ago and in an email, you must pay. An no, using specific slurs in some instances does not automatically make you racist, homophobe, or hate filled. Sick of this crap

It wasn't just from a decade ago. It stretched from 2011 until Gruden was hired as Raiders HC in 2018:

Gruden "casually and frequently unleashed misogynistic and homophobic language" to denigrate NFL peers from 2010 all the way to 2018, when he rejoined the Raiders."

Among Gruden's uncovered emails, which were sent to former Washington Football Team president Bruce Allen, are messages criticizing the emergence of women as NFL referees, as well as profane or frustrated reactions to former Rams draft pick Michael Sam's entry to the NFL as an openly gay player, and league-wide tolerance of former 49ers safety Eric Reid protesting racism during the playing of the national anthem.

The emails, which span from 2010 until 2018, when the coach signed a 10-year deal with Las Vegas after years as a "Monday Night Football" analyst, include Gruden calling Goodell a "f-----" and "clueless anti-football p----," criticizing Goodell for allegedly pressuring then-Rams coach Jeff Fisher to draft "queers," and messages to Allen that featured photos of topless Washington Football Team cheerleaders.


https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jon- ... er-report/
 

fenderbender123

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I don't judge people that harshly just because they're vulgar. Some people just express themselves that way, or it's habitual. Using naughty words doesn't make you a bad person.
 

James in PA

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Wow, just reading through some of his comments…. Gruden went full-out Archie Bunker.


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hgwellz12

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James in PA":2ils32jt said:
Wow, just reading through some of his comments…. Gruden went full-out Archie Bunker.


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You know what probably really stings is him KNOWING he's not the only one in the league/industry who speaks/thinks that way, but he's the only one who got caught.
 

James in PA

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hgwellz12":1f609q5s said:
James in PA":1f609q5s said:
Wow, just reading through some of his comments…. Gruden went full-out Archie Bunker.


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You know what probably really stings is him KNOWING he's not the only one in the league/industry who speaks/thinks that way, but he's the only one who got caught.
Yup. Good ol’ boy network.


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Mizak

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I know some of you guys wanted to call Goodell a clueless p*****. And I’m guessing the F word with 6 letters involves double G’s right?
 

Threedee

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Mizak":t6wwgtzc said:
I know some of you guys wanted to call Goodell a clueless p*****. And I’m guessing the F word with 6 letters involves double G’s right?

Well, people should do that anyway.
 

hgwellz12

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Mizak":3a937zeg said:
I know some of you guys wanted to call Goodell a clueless p*****. And I’m guessing the F word with 6 letters involves double G’s right?


Yeah, Im with Chucky on that one. Also, I have hardly EVER used the "f word that rhymes with maggot" in regards to someone's sexuality. Since I was a kid I have used that word disparagingly towards all sorts of people...even some animals. Everybody from playground teachers to politicians, pastors to punk police, pets to pharmacists, male AND female, have been called the "f word that rhymes with maggot". Especially punk police.
 

CPHawk

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hgwellz12":2ewp9lqi said:
James in PA":2ewp9lqi said:
Wow, just reading through some of his comments…. Gruden went full-out Archie Bunker.


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You know what probably really stings is him KNOWING he's not the only one in the league/industry who speaks/thinks that way, but he's the only one who got caught.


No. But he’s the only one dumb enough to send it in email. It’s one thing to say it talking shit with the boys over a beer. It’s another to send it to high level personal in multiple organizations, and expect it never comes to light.
 

hgwellz12

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CPHawk":3qr47dyr said:
hgwellz12":3qr47dyr said:
James in PA":3qr47dyr said:
Wow, just reading through some of his comments…. Gruden went full-out Archie Bunker.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You know what probably really stings is him KNOWING he's not the only one in the league/industry who speaks/thinks that way, but he's the only one who got caught.


No. But he’s the only one dumb enough to send it in email. It’s one thing to say it talking $h!t with the boys over a beer. It’s another to send it to high level personal in multiple organizations, and expect it never comes to light.

True. PEAK dumbassery!
 

fenderbender123

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Whoever leaked the email has committed a much more unethical act than whatever Gruden said. When I send emails to people, it's expected they don't leak it to the media. Doesn't matter what the law allows. Ethics are ethics.
 

RiverDog

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fenderbender123":yvwwklx0 said:
Whoever leaked the email has committed a much more unethical act than whatever Gruden said. When I send emails to people, it's expected they don't leak it to the media. Doesn't matter what the law allows. Ethics are ethics.

If it were to and/or from a private domain like Gmail or Yahoo, yes, I agree with you. But if you send something to/from a company's domain, nfl.com, espn.com or whatever, your emails are not private, they're the property of the domain to which you sent it to and/or from.

If the messages were on the NFL or WFT's domain, and since the league was able to discover them through their investigation of WFT, I would have to assume that they were, then both Gruden and Allen are complicit. Allen, being a GM and one that should know all about their electronic communication policy, should have responded to Gruden and told him to cool his jets and if that didn't work, forward the messages to his boss, ie Snyder. But instead, they went on for years.
 

toffee

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RiverDog":4uz8cv2d said:
fenderbender123":4uz8cv2d said:
Whoever leaked the email has committed a much more unethical act than whatever Gruden said. When I send emails to people, it's expected they don't leak it to the media. Doesn't matter what the law allows. Ethics are ethics.

If it were to and/or from a private domain like Gmail or Yahoo, yes, I agree with you. But if you send something to/from a company's domain, nfl.com, espn.com or whatever, your emails are not private, they're the property of the domain to which you sent it to and/or from.

If the messages were on the NFL or WFT's domain, and since the league was able to discover them through their investigation of WFT, I would have to assume that they were, then both Gruden and Allen are complicit. Allen, being a GM and one that should know all about their electronic communication policy, should have responded to Gruden and told him to cool his jets and if that didn't work, forward the messages to his boss, ie Snyder. But instead, they went on for years.

May be you have no idea how good it felt to put one's believe and value on email, and dare the organization, aka NFL to act. But remember this, in Gruden's own words, Roger Goodell, ain't nothing but a pu**y.
 

scutterhawk

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cymatica":af7ijclr said:
Doesn't matter what kind of person you are, if you use the wrong language, even a decade ago and in an email, you must pay. An no, using specific slurs in some instances does not automatically make you racist, homophobe, or hate filled. Sick of this crap
No it sure as hell doesn't matter what kind of person you are, but it DOES MATTER when you have millions of followers hanging on what you say.
I've always liked Jon Gruden, but using disparaging language, doesn't give him a free pass either, it's a possibility that some of his fans are/were gay.
Having that kind of notoriety has it's responsibilities for decency too.
 

chris98251

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scutterhawk":4sism8i6 said:
cymatica":4sism8i6 said:
Doesn't matter what kind of person you are, if you use the wrong language, even a decade ago and in an email, you must pay. An no, using specific slurs in some instances does not automatically make you racist, homophobe, or hate filled. Sick of this crap
No it sure as hell doesn't matter what kind of person you are, but it DOES MATTER when you have millions of followers hanging on what you say.
I've always liked Jon Gruden, but using disparaging language, doesn't give him a free pass either, it's a possibility that some of his fans are/were gay.
Having that kind of notoriety has it's responsibilities for decency too.

His problem was he put it in type and a email, it was never meant for public consumption but, a private exchange. We are in an age where smear is the game of the year and people will use this stuff to attack people, even if it was 10 15 or 20 years ago, James Gunn is a good example, people don't understand this is data and it doesn't go away and a aggressive search can dig up things from long ago in a time that a stance was deemed maybe just as inappropriate by many but not earth shattering. In our present culture and social mentality anything said as a slight or insult can be blown up. If you are in a position of power, celebrity, or athlete you can be destroyed by this stuff, and it doesn't have to be true, a sample out of context can do it. The clean up is after the fact and people are more and more apt pass judgement and do things as spin and personal protection first.
 

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chris98251":1bzd0vfr said:
His (Gruden's) problem was he put it in type and a email, it was never meant for public consumption but, a private exchange. We are in an age where smear is the game of the year and people will use this stuff to attack people, even if it was 10 15 or 20 years ago, James Gunn is a good example, people don't understand this is data and it doesn't go away and a aggressive search can dig up things from long ago in a time that a stance was deemed maybe just as inappropriate by many but not earth shattering. In our present culture and social mentality anything said as a slight or insult can be blown up. If you are in a position of power, celebrity, or athlete you can be destroyed by this stuff, and it doesn't have to be true, a sample out of context can do it. The clean up is after the fact and people are more and more apt pass judgement and do things as spin and personal protection first.

I tend to agree with that take. And it's not just emails and text messages that one has to worry about. As the Urban Meyer incident demonstrates, if you're a noted personality, any time you're out in public everything and anything you say and do could be recorded and distributed. Even if he were in a bar with close friends, it would have been possible for someone to record his conversations and there wouldn't have been a lot that he could have done. Such is life in the fish bowl.

Having said that, Gruden was incredibly stupid to have committed his blowing off steam to writing, especially since it would appear that he used or sent his comments to the NFL.com or WFT's domain. If he and Bruce Allen would have had their exchanges via a server like Gmail or Yahoo, they would have remained private.
 

chris98251

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RiverDog":15nmxvf1 said:
chris98251":15nmxvf1 said:
His (Gruden's) problem was he put it in type and a email, it was never meant for public consumption but, a private exchange. We are in an age where smear is the game of the year and people will use this stuff to attack people, even if it was 10 15 or 20 years ago, James Gunn is a good example, people don't understand this is data and it doesn't go away and a aggressive search can dig up things from long ago in a time that a stance was deemed maybe just as inappropriate by many but not earth shattering. In our present culture and social mentality anything said as a slight or insult can be blown up. If you are in a position of power, celebrity, or athlete you can be destroyed by this stuff, and it doesn't have to be true, a sample out of context can do it. The clean up is after the fact and people are more and more apt pass judgement and do things as spin and personal protection first.

I tend to agree with that take. And it's not just emails and text messages that one has to worry about. As the Urban Meyer incident demonstrates, if you're a noted personality, any time you're out in public everything and anything you say and do could be recorded and distributed. Even if he were in a bar with close friends, it would have been possible for someone to record his conversations and there wouldn't have been a lot that he could have done. Such is life in the fish bowl.

Having said that, Gruden was incredibly stupid to have committed his blowing off steam to writing, especially since it would appear that he used or sent his comments to the NFL.com or WFT's domain. If he and Bruce Allen would have had their exchanges via a server like Gmail or Yahoo, they would have remained private.

Well even a google or gmail can get hacked, or a accidental send forward to a wrong address, I imagine these guys have hundreds or internet transactions thru email, bill pay, business exchanges etc a day be it email. text or whatever.

Again most don't know the reaches of what the technology can go into, they just use the applications and don't think about the data trail you leave.


I don't know how many times I have heard people say I don't need to know that stuff just make it work and do what I want it to do.
 
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