Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Seattle Sounders 2020 Season Thread

Discuss any and all other sports-related topics. From the College Sports, Fantasy Sports, Archery to Water Polo and everything in between. LANGUAGE: PG-13
Re: Seattle Sounders 2020 Season Thread
Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:06 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:I think a ton of credit in this needs to go to Schmetzer..


    I wish Schmetzer would get some more national love, and not just be seen as a "Seattle guy."

    Dude has a ridiculous playoff win record, like 18-5-2 I think? With the ever revolving door of the USMNT, I'd like Schmetzer's name to be thrown around a little more than it is. No one's had more experience and a better understanding of the American game, the American player and how best to take advantage of those things tactically and in the locker room for motiviation.
    Sgt. Largent
    NET Pro Bowler
     
    Posts: 18495
    Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:10 am


Re: Seattle Sounders 2020 Season Thread
Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:53 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:I think a ton of credit in this needs to go to Schmetzer..


    I wish Schmetzer would get some more national love, and not just be seen as a "Seattle guy."

    Dude has a ridiculous playoff win record, like 18-5-2 I think? With the ever revolving door of the USMNT, I'd like Schmetzer's name to be thrown around a little more than it is. No one's had more experience and a better understanding of the American game, the American player and how best to take advantage of those things tactically and in the locker room for motiviation.

    I’m not a big soccer guy, but you cannot argue with his results/success.
    Sports Hernia
    NET Ring Of Honor
     
    Posts: 33419
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:36 pm
    Location: The pit


Re: Seattle Sounders 2020 Season Thread
Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:24 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:I think a ton of credit in this needs to go to Schmetzer.

    He made the big decisions at halftime to exploit the already gaping wide channels with faster players. But its a bit deeper than that. One of his subs, and a Sounders fan can correct me if im wrong, was let go from the squad at one point, and brought back specifically for the role filled the other night.

    In contrast, MN United's coach has repeatedly come under fire for his conservative approach to games. I enjoy the way the team plays in the attacking 3rd. However, their possession and build up play is laborious, tedious, and inefficient. It lacks pace, creativity, ingenuity. They have been successful that all of those things emerge once the ball gets near goal.

    But back to the game, Heath failed to impact the game with subs. He failed to adjust his tactics with a 2 goal lead. Possession was still slow in the middle part of the field, creating turnovers and breaks for Seattle. But also, it isolated the forwards, who were left chasing the ball without help. What sense does it make to press from the front if the midfield cannot join because they were just defending your box? They were exhausted trying to do both. And here was Heath's failure... he didnt change anything, not even a player. This is a reflection of poor decision making, not just in the moment, but in the months previous where planning a team around situations is important.

    The last goal shows that. Not a single United player had the energy, physically or mentally, to attack the ball.

    Not disappointed. It was a great run for the local team. Heath, despite the criticism above, has take the team to two finals over the last 2 years. And the club is only 4 years old. And Seattle certainly deserves to advance. They were better throughout. As a coach (much lower level, of course), i was fascinated by the decisions of the two coaches and the impact it had on the result.


    Who knew you were a soccer fan, and a coach even! Thanks for the analysis from the MN point of view. So you got to watch the amazing Darwin Quintero for a couple seasons! I also have been a soccer coach and had the joy of seeing both my daughters excel and become outstanding college soccer players. Not that it qualifies me to do anything other than appreciate the quality the Sounders and Schmetzer bring to the game. Mainly it meant I noticed Jordan Morris's horrible left-foot skill deficiency, and his remarkable progress in improving that the last 3 years.

    Schmetzer definitely gets massive credit, for creating the culture and getting players to buy in 100% and give their all, whether they're on the field starting, or coming in as a sub. Hence sub Will Bruin and his absolute mental preparedness to come in and score the goal that got the Sounders back in the game. And sub Gustav Svensson, coming in at 77th minute and scoring in the 93rd minute.

    I'm also concluding that Garth Lagerway and the Sounders scouting operation should get tons of credit, in that they have truly worked miracles in finding and bring in the type of players that fit Schmetzer's system and the psych profile that he wants for that player to be a positive, contributing member of the team in all types of situations, and to never quit on his teammates.

    The victory over MN was truly never-quit, vintage clutch Sounders. They have scored so many late-game goals the last few years to change negative outcomes to positive results, so this was actually quite in character.
    olyfan63
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3847
    Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:03 am


Re: Seattle Sounders 2020 Season Thread
Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:43 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:I think a ton of credit in this needs to go to Schmetzer..


    I wish Schmetzer would get some more national love, and not just be seen as a "Seattle guy."

    Dude has a ridiculous playoff win record, like 18-5-2 I think? With the ever revolving door of the USMNT, I'd like Schmetzer's name to be thrown around a little more than it is. No one's had more experience and a better understanding of the American game, the American player and how best to take advantage of those things tactically and in the locker room for motiviation.


    Schmetzer got badly outcoached by Toronto's Greg Vanney in the first 2 MLS cups and the Sounders were lucky to win the first matchup in a PK shootout, basically against the run of play. It was so disappointing to see the 2nd MLS Cup vs Toronto be a repeat of the first one, except Toronto scoring. WTF?? Didn't Schmetzer learn from the on-field beat-down but magical PK shootout win of the first MLS Cup? Last year, 2019, it was so fantastic to see Schmetzer finally conquer this demon and beat Vanney's Toronto side by actually outplaying them.

    It couldn't hurt to have Schmetzer get a shot with USMNT; I honestly have no idea how it would turn out. However, I submit that Schmetzer's biggest successes in MLS, Jordan Morris aside, have come from South American and European players, especially Lodeiro, Ruidiaz, and of course oft-injured Victor Rodriguez having one great shining moment. OK, so scratch that. Every time I start to form an argument, it turns out that Schmetzer's gotten great results with players from all over, including lots of American players, Dempsey, Chad Marshall, and S. American players and European players, African players, and even Asian players, Kim Kee-hee coming to mind.

    OK, I'll sign the petition, Schmetzer for USMNT coach.
    olyfan63
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3847
    Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:03 am


Re: Seattle Sounders 2020 Season Thread
Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:52 am
  • The Columbus Crew will be missing at least two starters for MLS Cup after the team announced that Darlington Nagbe and Pedro Santos are not medically cleared to participate. The Crew also announced that another player tested positive for Covid-19, in addition to the positive test that came back on Tuesday. No other players or staff tested positive.

    https://www.sounderatheart.com/2020/12/ ... ay-mls-cup
    KitsapGuy
    * NET Staff *
     
    Posts: 7524
    Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:09 pm
    Location: Kitsap County


Re: Seattle Sounders 2020 Season Thread
Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:06 am
  • KitsapGuy wrote:The Columbus Crew will be missing at least two starters for MLS Cup after the team announced that Darlington Nagbe and Pedro Santos are not medically cleared to participate. The Crew also announced that another player tested positive for Covid-19, in addition to the positive test that came back on Tuesday. No other players or staff tested positive.

    https://www.sounderatheart.com/2020/12/ ... ay-mls-cup

    WOW. Just WOW.
    I was just coming here to post that, and you beat me to it.
    Another source:
    https://www.espn.com/soccer/columbus-cr ... covid-case

    I'd expect Columbus' midfield chemistry to suffer greatly. But soccer is a funny game, so we'll find out what midfield depth Columbus has, and how their coach compensates. In theory, it improves the Sounders chances, but also makes Columbus a different team than the one the Sounders have scouted and prepared for.
    olyfan63
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3847
    Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:03 am


Re: Seattle Sounders 2020 Season Thread
Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:55 am
  • Could be dangerous. Columbus will be pumped up in a 'lets win this for Nagbe' way and I expect them to come out of the doors flying.
    Glasgow Seahawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1401
    Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:57 pm


Re: Seattle Sounders 2020 Season Thread
Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:25 am
  • olyfan63 wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:I think a ton of credit in this needs to go to Schmetzer.

    He made the big decisions at halftime to exploit the already gaping wide channels with faster players. But its a bit deeper than that. One of his subs, and a Sounders fan can correct me if im wrong, was let go from the squad at one point, and brought back specifically for the role filled the other night.

    In contrast, MN United's coach has repeatedly come under fire for his conservative approach to games. I enjoy the way the team plays in the attacking 3rd. However, their possession and build up play is laborious, tedious, and inefficient. It lacks pace, creativity, ingenuity. They have been successful that all of those things emerge once the ball gets near goal.

    But back to the game, Heath failed to impact the game with subs. He failed to adjust his tactics with a 2 goal lead. Possession was still slow in the middle part of the field, creating turnovers and breaks for Seattle. But also, it isolated the forwards, who were left chasing the ball without help. What sense does it make to press from the front if the midfield cannot join because they were just defending your box? They were exhausted trying to do both. And here was Heath's failure... he didnt change anything, not even a player. This is a reflection of poor decision making, not just in the moment, but in the months previous where planning a team around situations is important.

    The last goal shows that. Not a single United player had the energy, physically or mentally, to attack the ball.

    Not disappointed. It was a great run for the local team. Heath, despite the criticism above, has take the team to two finals over the last 2 years. And the club is only 4 years old. And Seattle certainly deserves to advance. They were better throughout. As a coach (much lower level, of course), i was fascinated by the decisions of the two coaches and the impact it had on the result.


    Who knew you were a soccer fan, and a coach even! Thanks for the analysis from the MN point of view. So you got to watch the amazing Darwin Quintero for a couple seasons! I also have been a soccer coach and had the joy of seeing both my daughters excel and become outstanding college soccer players. Not that it qualifies me to do anything other than appreciate the quality the Sounders and Schmetzer bring to the game. Mainly it meant I noticed Jordan Morris's horrible left-foot skill deficiency, and his remarkable progress in improving that the last 3 years.

    Schmetzer definitely gets massive credit, for creating the culture and getting players to buy in 100% and give their all, whether they're on the field starting, or coming in as a sub. Hence sub Will Bruin and his absolute mental preparedness to come in and score the goal that got the Sounders back in the game. And sub Gustav Svensson, coming in at 77th minute and scoring in the 93rd minute.

    I'm also concluding that Garth Lagerway and the Sounders scouting operation should get tons of credit, in that they have truly worked miracles in finding and bring in the type of players that fit Schmetzer's system and the psych profile that he wants for that player to be a positive, contributing member of the team in all types of situations, and to never quit on his teammates.

    The victory over MN was truly never-quit, vintage clutch Sounders. They have scored so many late-game goals the last few years to change negative outcomes to positive results, so this was actually quite in character.


    Played D1, have been coaching academy/club and high school for 15 years here in MN. We've had many a long soccer discussion in here over the years (mostly Sarge and I).

    I loved Darwin. Very talented player, very creative. Great guy around our youth players as well. He was a victim of Heath's style of play (true 9 with wingers who play from a deeper position). Quintero is/was terrific playing off the opponents backline and making creative runs in behind or taking on defenders. Heath's system is a bit more conservative/pragmatic. They bashed heads eventually.

    The impact of the subs on the game was more than just getting the goals. They ran MN united into unbalanced defensive groupings all over the field, and eventually exhausted the team. Heath never had the confidence to make a change, and the last two goals were physical and mental breakdowns. The lack of a back side defender on the post for both corners is extremely telling. As was the complete lack of movement to the ball.

    it was a chess match, for sure.
    Uncle Si
    * NET Hottie *
     
    Posts: 20596
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:34 am


Re: Seattle Sounders 2020 Season Thread
Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:46 am
  • olyfan63 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:I think a ton of credit in this needs to go to Schmetzer..


    I wish Schmetzer would get some more national love, and not just be seen as a "Seattle guy."

    Dude has a ridiculous playoff win record, like 18-5-2 I think? With the ever revolving door of the USMNT, I'd like Schmetzer's name to be thrown around a little more than it is. No one's had more experience and a better understanding of the American game, the American player and how best to take advantage of those things tactically and in the locker room for motiviation.


    Schmetzer got badly outcoached by Toronto's Greg Vanney in the first 2 MLS cups and the Sounders were lucky to win the first matchup in a PK shootout, basically against the run of play. It was so disappointing to see the 2nd MLS Cup vs Toronto be a repeat of the first one, except Toronto scoring. WTF?? Didn't Schmetzer learn from the on-field beat-down but magical PK shootout win of the first MLS Cup? Last year, 2019, it was so fantastic to see Schmetzer finally conquer this demon and beat Vanney's Toronto side by actually outplaying them.

    It couldn't hurt to have Schmetzer get a shot with USMNT; I honestly have no idea how it would turn out. However, I submit that Schmetzer's biggest successes in MLS, Jordan Morris aside, have come from South American and European players, especially Lodeiro, Ruidiaz, and of course oft-injured Victor Rodriguez having one great shining moment. OK, so scratch that. Every time I start to form an argument, it turns out that Schmetzer's gotten great results with players from all over, including lots of American players, Dempsey, Chad Marshall, and S. American players and European players, African players, and even Asian players, Kim Kee-hee coming to mind.

    OK, I'll sign the petition, Schmetzer for USMNT coach.


    Isn't that what any organization and/or soccer federation wants out of their coach? Someone who's pliable and has the skill and knowledge of the game to learn and adapt?

    That was the knock on Bradley, and Klinsmann for that matter.......they both only had one style of tactics, so it was constant fight to try to find players that fit those very specific tactics and philosophy.

    Schmetzer does not have that level of ego that prevents him from being a fluid and objective coach that knows how to change his tactics based on the strengths of his players.
    Sgt. Largent
    NET Pro Bowler
     
    Posts: 18495
    Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:10 am


Re: Seattle Sounders 2020 Season Thread
Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:02 pm
  • The amount of chatter about a MLS/Liga Mx merger is interesting. I think it's a few years off but i'm personally for it.

    Feel like by doing it the MLS teams can take shackles off with the salary cap and are forced to up their game against the Mexican teams. Mexican teams get access to a bigger tv market. Obviously a lot to sort out and I imagine it would be divisions rather than conferences to limit travel e.g. a Mexican division with interleague play.

    I think we see more cup competitions in the mean time as a stop gap.
    Glasgow Seahawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1401
    Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:57 pm


Re: Seattle Sounders 2020 Season Thread
Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:27 pm
  • Sounders are down 2-0 already. Starting Alex Roldan and Nouhou over Leerdam and Smith is puzzling. Not having their best 11 lineup out there is not a good strategy,
    hawkfan68
    Gold Supporter
    Gold Supporter
     
    Posts: 7960
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:10 pm
    Location: Sammamish, WA


Re: Seattle Sounders 2020 Season Thread
Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:42 pm
  • hawkfan68 wrote:Sounders are down 2-0 already. Starting Alex Roldan and Nouhou over Leerdam and Smith is puzzling. Not having their best 11 lineup out there is not a good strategy,


    Nouhou having a spot on the roster is puzzling to me. For all of his talent he has almost 0 decision-making ability.
    JustTheTip
    Platinum Supporter
    Platinum Supporter
     
    Posts: 2898
    Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:38 pm


Re: Seattle Sounders 2020 Season Thread
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:12 am
  • hawkfan68 wrote:Sounders are down 2-0 already. Starting Alex Roldan and Nouhou over Leerdam and Smith is puzzling. Not having their best 11 lineup out there is not a good strategy,


    I missed the 1st half, but my son-in-law-to-be says that both goals were on Alex Roldan playing more like a winger and less like a back. If Leerdam was in fact healthy and available, baffling that Schmetzer wouldn't have him holding down that outside back spot.

    Both first half goals seemed a little "soft" to me, both from a similar type of setup, not the type of goals the Sounders generally concede, and Frei uncharacteristically allowing in that first goal.

    The second half looked more like Sounders soccer, but Ledeiro put his golden chance just wide, Jordan Morris' Jozy Altidore-esque header got saved, Svensson didn't find the mark with his header, and Columbus just played our corners very well. Their third goal was simply a result of us pressing up, taking risks to get a score and getting caught.

    Congratulations to Columbus for a very well-played game and a well-deserved victory on their part. They came to play and it was truly their night.

    Possibly this will be the game that causes Schmetzer to re-evaluate his philosophy on lineups. I don't necessarily have a huge problem with Nouhou and Smith splitting time, and bringing Smith in for the 2nd half to have a fresh Brad Smith against tired opponents has worked fine, but leaving a proven defender like Leerdam on the bench in favor of Alex Roldan is a head-scratcher. Not quite on par with Greg Ryan starting Brianna Scurry over Hope Solo against Brazil, but maybe enough to cause Schmetzer to re-evaluate.

    Also, I don't think Schmetzer had quite as good a read on the Columbus to have a good game plan, and only a few days to prepare, and one less day of rest than Columbus. That's the game, though. One of Schmetzer's finest moments as a coach, IMO, was defeating a juggernaut LAFC club last year in the playoffs in that remarkable 3-1 Sounders win. The MLS Cup 3-1 win vs Toronto was a thing of beauty as well. In both cases, Schmetzer knew the opponent well enough to come up with solid game plans and know the matchups and which players to play where and in general come in very prepared. The Sounders didn't look well-prepared vs Columbus.
    olyfan63
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3847
    Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:03 am


Re: Seattle Sounders 2020 Season Thread
Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:53 am
  • I think he played a strength that worked against MN United. The problem was twofold: Columbus were far more efficient in the transition and attacking 3rd than MN United. And.. they weren't exhausted.

    I dont mind attacking wing backs. I'm a huge Liverpool fan and appreciate the style. We coach at our academy as well. But to do so, you need terrific centerbacks and a holding mid who can shift into the wide channel to cover. Also, for all of the possession you get with the extra attackers, you have to create chances. It looked like many of the transitions came from poor passes in the top of the middle 3rd. If you're going to give it away, it should be a defensive clearance or in the GKs hands.

    I'd say on this day, both those areas failed the Sounders. (only watched extended highlights though).
    Uncle Si
    * NET Hottie *
     
    Posts: 20596
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:34 am


Re: Seattle Sounders 2020 Season Thread
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:19 am
  • Hard to blame Schmetzer for sticking with what's worked through the playoffs and trying to hold onto that momentum, especially against what he perceived a weakened Crew side without two of their best players.

    He did make the necessary adjustments at halftime, and the Sounders looked much more dangerous after that, 45 minutes is plenty of time for a side to respond to a 0-2 deficit in a championship match.........they just couldn't get it done.

    So give Porter and the Crew all the credit in the world, they played a fantastic match, and deserved to win.
    Sgt. Largent
    NET Pro Bowler
     
    Posts: 18495
    Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:10 am


Re: Seattle Sounders 2020 Season Thread
Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:19 pm
  • Didnt know that was Caleb Porter coaching them. Had to feel good for him.
    Uncle Si
    * NET Hottie *
     
    Posts: 20596
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:34 am


Re: Seattle Sounders 2020 Season Thread
Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:50 pm
  • Now Seattle can move on to the biggest issue facing the club, re-signing Schmetzer who's contract expires at the end of the month.
    SeatownJay
    * NET Staff Alumni *
     
    Posts: 10682
    Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:38 pm
    Location: Hagerstown, MD


Re: Seattle Sounders 2020 Season Thread
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:36 pm
  • SeatownJay wrote:Now Seattle can move on to the biggest issue facing the club, re-signing Schmetzer who's contract expires at the end of the month.


    And giving Lodeiro the contract extension he wanted.

    https://www.sounderatheart.com/sounders ... e-sounders

    Also didn't pick up Paulo's option. Doesn't mean they wouldn't want to see him back, but not at almost 400k per year.
    Sgt. Largent
    NET Pro Bowler
     
    Posts: 18495
    Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:10 am


Re: Seattle Sounders 2020 Season Thread
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:40 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:Played D1, have been coaching academy/club and high school for 15 years here in MN. We've had many a long soccer discussion in here over the years (mostly Sarge and I).

    I loved Darwin. Very talented player, very creative. Great guy around our youth players as well. He was a victim of Heath's style of play (true 9 with wingers who play from a deeper position). Quintero is/was terrific playing off the opponents backline and making creative runs in behind or taking on defenders. Heath's system is a bit more conservative/pragmatic. They bashed heads eventually.

    The impact of the subs on the game was more than just getting the goals. They ran MN united into unbalanced defensive groupings all over the field, and eventually exhausted the team. Heath never had the confidence to make a change, and the last two goals were physical and mental breakdowns. The lack of a back side defender on the post for both corners is extremely telling. As was the complete lack of movement to the ball.

    it was a chess match, for sure.


    I appreciate the analysis, and the background. I wasn't able to watch the game live, and have only seen the highlights, plus a brief analysis from my adult soccer-enthusiast children told me. I can relate to Heath not having the confidence to make a change, assuming he felt there would be a drop in quality/continuity that exceeded the boost of having fresh legs on the field, and chose to cross his fingers and hope for the group on the field to see the game out. You would of course be far better able to say whether that is a coaching issue or a team/GM issue in terms of acquiring depth of players the coach can have confidence in, or a mix of both. The Sounders previously unlucky finishing had a suddent streak of luck+skill, thus the win. I will say that Schmetzer goes to his bench decisively and with confidence based on his game plan, plus how the game is going, and what he sees.

    I have more of a coaching background than a playing background, as soccer was not available where I grew up. As an adult, I discovered that I could have been a really good soccer player if my lack of skill and lack of fitness didn't hold me back :-P I learned coaching with my kids, all three of whom developed a love for the game. I passed them off to pro club coaches at age 10 or so. Later on, I got assorted coaching licenses and coached competitive club teams of other people's kids, won a few tournaments, etc. My two daughters both went on to earn WA HS 1st team all-state, and all-conference in college, as central mids. One holds the career goals and assists records for her D1 university. All three kids tell me the best contribution I gave them was developing them as 2-footed players from day 1. Hence why Jordan Morris's woeful left foot as a rookie stood out to me like a sore thumb.

    Darwin was a very fun player to watch, and overall, MLS has turned into a very entertaining and watchable product. I recall Schmetzer talking about an upcoming Sounders game with MN a couple years ago, and he lavished praise on Quintero, and when watching the match, it wasn't hard to see why.

    It's been a lot of fun watching Schmetzer work his magic since taking over for Sigi, and I was hoping for a better showing in the MLS Cup final, but Columbus came out and took it on that night.
    olyfan63
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3847
    Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:03 am


Previous


It is currently Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:26 am

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ THE SPORTS BAR ]




Information
  • Who is online
  • Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests