Anthony Richardson aced the s2 cognition exam

[DJrmb]

Cam Newton was much more accurate in college. Lamar Jackson is the better comp here for Richardson than Newton.

Richardson is only a rare athlete at the QB position where his athletic numbers stand out because most guys with his ability end up playing another position. College has a designation for this for recruits coming in, they designate great athletes without a position as "Athlete". This is what would have happened to Richardson in the past because nobody thought to use QB's in the way they are used in today's game. So for all those historic numbers comparing Richardson's numbers to guys from the 00's, 90's, and 80's thats all bunk because back then QBs like him were more valuable in other positions and usually got moved after high school.

Offenses have changed a bit to accommodate some of these running QBs. More so recently, I believe do to the marginal success of Lamar Jackson and Baltimore. People get enamored with the flashy style and something new and unique to observe. This has made it popular with fans and with players as well. However, how many championships has it produced? And now that Jackson is up for a new deal look how little traction he is getting from NFL teams despite it being in direct opposition to how fans feel. Nobody wants him. You've got people crying collusion and foul play by the NFL, but really it's a simple risk vs reward with that type of player at QB. NFL teams do not want to have to alter their entire offense (both personnel and scheme) to give Jackson the type of offense he needs to be successful. That alone is a lot of resources to sink into making one player good-ish and being able to win one kind of way. Then you add on top of that these style of QB's do not last as long in the NFL. You've got about a 10 year lifespan on one of these athletics based QBs before their speed and agility decline to the point that you no longer have that unique advantage at the position. That's about half the time you get with a true franchise QB like a Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning, who all played into their 40s.

There is a chance that Richardson puts it all together and his elite athletics is in addition to being an actually decent QB, rather than the crutch he leans on. However, he has not shown that trajectory yet. He needs some MAJOR help learning some very basic QB things to improve his accuracy and poise under pressure. Who on the Seahawks staff is this "QB whisperer" that can mold Richardson into all the potential you guys see? How'd that work for trying to break Russ out of some of his bad habits and make him a more well-rounded QB? This staff doesn't have that guy. Pete tends to just use guys as they are at QB, not groom them into something more.

Richardson has too many questions and too much risk to be considered a top 5 pick for any team in my opinion (and I believe the draft will show that to be true when he drops out of the top 10). Even more so for Seattle, with the current coaching staff and being in win now mode. It's just not a fit here.

 

[Natethegreat]

Lamar doesn't have the size or arm strength of Richardson. So no he isn't a better comp (other than he is not very accurate either. Yet he still succeeeds in a big way in the NFL). Cam had a better completion percentage after starting for 2 more years than Richardson. Josh Allen had a similair completion percantage as Richardson against much easier competition. Everyone was saying the exact same things about Allen.
He isn't a QB, can't process, just an athlete, can't teach accuracy blah blah blah. And maybe he doesn't work out but I sure would like to see if it does.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

What are people’s thoughts on Levis then? Because I’d be perfectly happy With that also.

 

[DJrmb]

Comps should also include play style... Richardson's game is much more Jackson than Newton.

 

[SonicHawk]

Richardson runs nothing like Jackson. Richardson runs like Cam Newton, more like a power back.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

C.J. Stroud Reportedly Scored A Shockingly Low 18% On His S2 Cognition Test

A RIFF on what country is really about.

www.whiskeyriff.com

 

[Natethegreat]

Yeah, I feel like Richardson does look like Cam out there. Jackson has more agility and quick cuts. Richardson has all the arm talent needed to make every throw too. Jackson does not.

 

[ivotuk]

Why? Geno is the answer for two years at best, and no I don’t think Lock will be a Geno given that Geno is a historical anomaly himself.

Two years at best? Incorrect. Your bias towards Richardson has you making unsubstantiated statements that don't match reality.

Geno, much like Marcus Allen, has not played much in his career, so has not taken a beating. He's NOT an anomaly, he's just learned to mature and be a professional. He himself said that was an issue early on.

Geno last year, finally started to look like the Geno that I, and many other were touting as a 1st rounder when he came out of West Virginia. Why? Go look at his stats in WV. He was a damn good QB.

But then he got drafted by the Jets, aka, The QB killers. And he got his jaw broken, which put an end to his career in NY.

After that, he played behind Eli Manning, Phil Rivers, and Russell Wilson. Tell me, what QB in this world would replace any of those guys as starters? Considering all of the winning they were doing, it would be tough for even Tom Brady or Aron Rodgers to supplant them.

Every year, 50% of the 1st round QBs busts. There are 4 this year, and the busts will be Anthony Richardson, and Will Levis.


The Lewin QB forecast is the best thing going for predicting QB success, and Bryce Young an CJ Stroud fit the parameters. One of which is a lot of games (QB Experience) at the college level.

 

[DJrmb]

I disagree, Richardson's running style reminds me more of Jackson personally, but everyone's welcome to their opinion. He himself said a mix between Jackson and Newton in running style. I can see that. I still see him leaning Jackson though.

BTW, where's Cam been recently? They couldn't even get 10 years out of Cam before he was breaking down... No thanks, top 5 is too valuable for that short of a "maybe" project.

 

[Natethegreat]

I disagree, Richardson's running style reminds me more of Jackson personally, but everyone's welcome to their opinion. He himself said a mix between Jackson and Newton in running style. I can see that. I still see him leaning Jackson though.

BTW, where's Cam been recently? They couldn't even get 10 years out of Cam before he was breaking down... No thanks, top 5 is too valuable for that short of a "maybe" project.

Fair enough on the Lamar comp as far as running but the arm strength heavily favors Richardson. 10 years is too short though? Really? Do you get ten years drafting any other position? I mean maybe, but the tail end won't be great. That doesn't seem like a great argument to me especially when you don't actually know that Richardson would only play ten.
To me the length of career makes it more valuable to pick a QB than any other position.

 

[Mad Dog]

I disagree, Richardson's running style reminds me more of Jackson personally, but everyone's welcome to their opinion. He himself said a mix between Jackson and Newton in running style. I can see that. I still see him leaning Jackson though.

BTW, where's Cam been recently? They couldn't even get 10 years out of Cam before he was breaking down... No thanks, top 5 is too valuable for that short of a "maybe" project.

If you can get 7 years of starting from any player in the NFL, it's worth the pick. Any player taken is a crapshoot because they all play a team sport with and against players that are far inferior to the NFL.

You can't win the lottery if you don't buy any tickets. With QB's you only get picks this high so often if you are a successful franchise.

 

[hawkfan68]

Again, high score doesn't guarantee you'll be good, but a bad score does seem to indicate you'll struggle. Moral of the story: stay away from Stroud.

A name for you - Brett Favre. They didn't have S2 during his time but he was reputed to have a low wonderlic test score. Didn't stop him from having a HOF career.

Terry Bradshaw doesn't come off as the sharpest tool in the shed but did have a great NFL career. Dan Marino, McNabb, and Jim Kelly had low scores too.

Wonderlic scores of NFL QB’s

 

[DJrmb]

If you can get 7 years of starting from any player in the NFL, it's worth the pick. Any player taken is a crapshoot because they all play a team sport with and against players that are far inferior to the NFL.

You can't win the lottery if you don't buy any tickets. With QB's you only get picks this high so often if you are a successful franchise.

You are completely missing the point. I didn't say pick no one, so what are you talking about "you can't win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket"? The argument is whether or not Richardson is worth a top 5 pick over other prospects. My opinion is no.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I disagree, Richardson's running style reminds me more of Jackson personally, but everyone's welcome to their opinion. He himself said a mix between Jackson and Newton in running style. I can see that. I still see him leaning Jackson though.

BTW, where's Cam been recently? They couldn't even get 10 years out of Cam before he was breaking down... No thanks, top 5 is too valuable for that short of a "maybe" project.

Richardson is two inches taller and almost 15 lbs heavier than Jackson was in college.

Newton is a better comp on that front.

The problem with comparing Richardson with either Jackson or Newton is both Jackson and Newton were 3-4 year starters, AND won Heismans. Richardson has an EXTREMELY small body of work, and wasn't even in the top 100 QB's in all of college football for stats.

He's purely wow'ing scouts on his measurables. Which IMO is a very dangerous thing to fall in love with when it comes to QB's. Especially when you're considering drafting him in the top 5.

 

[DJrmb]

Fair enough on the Lamar comp as far as running but the arm strength heavily favors Richardson. 10 years is too short though? Really? Do you get ten years drafting any other position? I mean maybe, but the tail end won't be great. That doesn't seem like a great argument to me especially when you don't actually know that Richardson would only play ten.
To me the length of career makes it more valuable to pick a QB than any other position.

So we all know that we have Geno for at least next year. Maybe 2 years? That's eating into that 10 years. Then your example was Cam, who hasn't been good for at least 2 years.... See how the window is shrinking? Is potentially 6 years enough assuming no injuries and assuming you get elite play those years? What if some of those years he's still learning and not elite yet? Most everyone agrees Richardson is not a day 1 starter and will need years to develop. Where is the point where the risk out weighs the potential reward?

This is also just best guesses, by all of us. I don't know any of this for fact just as none of you know Richardson will be anything near Cam Newton or successful at all. However, based on history, and averages Richardson just has more risk than I would be comfortable with. I'm not against drafting a QB high at all. I am against drafting Richardson high. I could pallet it more at 20 but not at 5.

Do I know Richardson will only last 10 years? No, but all examples of players with his play style seem to point to that being more likely than less likely. That is additional risk other styles have shown not to have

Do I know that Richardson's accuracy issues are something that will carry over to the NFL? No, but again the data suggests it's more likely than not, that he will never fix that. That is additional risk

 

[Appyhawk]

"it's gonna be hard for the Hawks to land one at pick 32"
Your expectations for result this season would not be possible if we use #5 on a QB. Where we pick in the first next year is malleable. IMO our QB of the future will be available in next year's draft. As for this year I would still prefer to have Hooker as much as any other QB prospect in this draft.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

"it's gonna be hard for the Hawks to land one at pick 32"
Your expectations for result this season would not be possible if we use #5 on a QB. Where we pick in the first next year is malleable. IMO our QB of the future will be available in next year's draft. As for this year I would still prefer to have Hooker as much as any other QB prospect in this draft.

So how much you gonna suck or suck up to get Caleb Or whomever?

We don’t get those Unless we really, really suck. This is our first year to really pick.

 

[DJrmb]

This data would suggest (based on averages, risk analysis) if you don't get the #1 QB it's better to wait until the middle of the 1st round rather than panic and grab another guy top 5....

The Draft Network

TDN

thedraftnetwork.com

 

[Sgt. Largent]

"it's gonna be hard for the Hawks to land one at pick 32"
Your expectations for result this season would not be possible if we use #5 on a QB. Where we pick in the first next year is malleable. IMO our QB of the future will be available in next year's draft. As for this year I would still prefer to have Hooker as much as any other QB prospect in this draft.

Yep.

Hooker's a much better value pick later in the 1st round. Seasoned, experienced with 80% of the upside of Richardson.....and because of his age and injury history will be available at 20, or to trade back into the late 1st to draft.

 

[Natethegreat]

Yep.

Hooker's a much better value pick later in the 1st round. Seasoned, experienced with 80% of the upside of Richardson.....and because of his age and injury history will be available at 20, or to trade back into the late 1st to draft.

The only comparable QB to come out at Hendon Hookers age and have some success is Ryan Tannehill (and he was a WR to QB convert). Every other QB to be drafted at 25 or older have all been busts. Every single one.
He plays in a gimmicky offense that only has him read half the field. Not to say he couldn't learn a real offense but it does mean all those gaudy stats might not translate well. I would be pretty disappointed if we used a first round pick on him.