Marvin49":266sd8lq said:
Ramfan128":266sd8lq said:
Marvin49":266sd8lq said:
Ramfan128":266sd8lq said:
McVay acquired Whitworth and Watkins (and since Shanahan and McVay became head coaches the same year, Shanahan could have gone after them himself), and Gurley was coming off one of the worst RB seasons in league history. Just for some clarification there.
I'll give you AD obviously.
I wouldn't trade McVay for Shanahan, but I do see why he's well regarded. Simple as the record with Jimmy.
The injuries have been had for so long that it's no longer just bad luck - several of the players had injury histories and then something else has to be going on. So that should be baked into Shanahan evaluation going forward and he knows that, hence the trade up for a QB.
Yes he did, but that's not the point. The point is that his record includes those players on the roster. I'm not attacking McVay here BTW. I'm just saying the circumstances are different.
I don't buy the injury history thing. Many of them had zero injury history before joining the 49ers. They even fired and replaced their entire training staff.
Say what you want about Goff, but he was at LEAST serviceable. The same CANNOT be said of Beathard and Mullens.
When Shanahan has HAD a serviceable QB, he's 24-9 and has a SB appearance. Its not about just injuries on the team. Its injuries at QB specifically. Its the reason I never thought Jimmy would be traded. They wanted TWO QBs at least this year so that they are insulated from injury at that position.
I mean seriously...what do you guys think happens if Wilson or Stafford go down to an ACL in week 3? You think the team is all hunky dory? You think if the team tanks after that you aren't using that as a reason the season was lost when writing the story of this season?
Come on now.
Depends on what argument you were trying to make. I read it as "McVay inherited better players" as that's been a popular 49er fan take on the situations. If you were just talking about them being available, sure. But he didn't inherit Whitworth or Watkins. He went out and got them.
Garrapolo, Bosa, Kwon Alexander and Sherman all suffered injuries a year or two before coming to SF (Bosa at Ohio State, where he decided to sit the rest of the season to prep for the draft). Verrett had one of the crazier injury histories. Some of those injuries were random, but there is some history with those guys.
If Stafford goes down were still winning 7-10 games. You saw Goff first hand twice last year be the worst football player on the field.
Even in games where he put up numbers like against Tampa, a lot of it was YAC and his two INTs turned what should have been a blowout win to a close game. We likely win 10 games and beat Seattle in the playoffs with almost any QB last year. So while Stafford going down certainly eliminates us from being Super Bowl contenders, were still a fringe playoff team without him. For reference, the Bears made the playoffs last year and we're better than them at every facet of the game - losing Stafford, we would still be better than the Trubisky/Foles led Bears that were the 7 seed last year.
Goff's air yards were near the bottom of the league. He was unbelievably bad last year and when you consider that the OL, run game, WRs and defense were all good - I push back on the notion that he is even serviceable.
I can’t believe if defending Goff….but here goes…lol.
I’m not really arguing that Goff is good. I’m just are going that he’s much better than Beathard and Mullens.
RE Watkins or Whitfield, all I’m saying is that those guys were on the roster when McVay was coaching. How they got there is irrelevant. I’m simply talking about pieces of that team were in place by the time McVay started playing games that counted. That’s it.
Why am I making that point? It’s pertinent if you are going to compare records. The argument isn’t about recruitment.
Look…49ers were completely rebuilt in this first few years. Staley, Ward, Armstead and Buckner remained. Now it’s just Ward and Armstead.
You said one thing tho I completely disagree with. If you think Stafford goes down for the year and you are still winning 10 games, I think you are dreaming. Take it from someone who saw his team in the SB when the WB was healthy (and a QB who is probably the 4th best in the division) and the team completely tank without him.
Finally tho…I’m not really trying to argue Shanahan/McVay. I like them both quite a bit. I’m just saying the situations for them were different. You may hate Goff, but I’d take him in a heartbeat over Hoyer/Beathard/Mullens.
I just don't like the narrative that McVay had so much more to work with. But I like them both too and I think Shanahan is a better offensive mind, worse head coach.
Yea so you either A. Didn't watch the Rams last year or B. Are thinking last year was an aberration for Goff.
Last year the Rams were better than the Niners on defense, at WR, possibly OL, and RB factoring in Mosterts injuries. We were better at everything. So how did we lose to the Niners? First time, fine - just one of those games. But the second game? Mullens was a better QB than Jared Goff.
Goff singlehandedly sunk us against the Dolphins and 49ers last year - as in, if we just ran the ball the entire time both games and didn't drop back once we may have won both. He was awful in the first Niner game, and was awful in the Seattle loss, throwing what should be in the running for worst INT in NFL history. He was also bad against the Jets.
On the flip side, there really isn't a game he won for us. His stats looking good are mostly because we threw so many passes around the line of scrimmage. Both Kupp and Woods were top 6 I believe in YAC.
Goff was ready to go against Seattle in the playoffs - he started Wolford anyways. Would have started him against GB too if he hadn't gotten hurt.
Mullens was absolutely better than Goff last year.
The year prior he was almost as bad. In almost every loss he was the culprit. Even in games that he seemed to play well, he would make an unforgivable play that cost the game. 2019 week 16 game against the Niners is a great example. Threw the ball directly to Fred Warner for a pick 6.
Saw an article that had Goff as the worst QB in the NFL last year when using presnap motion - harder to read a defense when they're in the middle of adjusting when you snap the ball.
Dude can't read a defense and despite having the best roster for a QB last year, held the team back all season. He played well against GB, but that doesn't excuse how awful he was the last two years.
I think you're equating Goff with the guy who had a top 5 OL, top RB, and top WR group in 2017 and 2018 who also had the element of little tape on McVay. Everything said in the last few years is probably true. Everything. Helping him read defenses, needing perfect circumstances, etc. He didn't have that in 2019 and it broke him. McVay started getting on him and it shook his confidence.
There aren't many QBs who were worse than Goff last year. You'd have to watch every Rams game to see beyond the stat sheet.
Put Mullens on the Rams last year with our health, we probably win 11-12 games. Be interested to see teams records in NFL history with the number one defense, a top 10 run game and top 5 in sacks allowed. I'd imagine most won more than 10 games.