Bruce Irvin suspended

[NYCoug]

Wow, I had a crazy busy weekend at work and our internet was down too (Time Warner is Lamar King type terrible), so I knew about Bruce getting suspended and saw his apology, but didn't see any of the stuff here yet. I haven't had the intestinal fortitude to comb through this 19 page whopper yet, hopefully I'll man up at some point during the day and do it, but from what I've seen it seems a gruesome order.

All I'll say is this...

BRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Seahawks will soldier on, as they've been built to do from Day 1, and Bruce will play a prominent role in him and his band of misfits being crowned champions at MetLife. The tough moments like these, and the Scruggs injury, will make it that much sweeter in the end. For everyone. It's gonna be a crazy ride. And Bruce Irvin is going to come back with a vengeance, no doubt in my mind.

We All We Got. We All We Need.

 

[SmokinHawk]

In seasons past, I would have shaken my head in dismay. This time around, I really don't see this impacting us either way. Bruce Irvin was already starting a slide down the depth chart as he just doesn't seem to have what is needed to be anything more than a situational pass rusher in our defense. Right now, he's #2 behind Avril, and now Ty Powell will be given a very serious look to see if he can be an every down player like Clemons.

You screwed up, Bruce. More than anything, you screwed yourself, because the team won't miss a beat without you on the field.

 

[Hawkfan77]

Anyone who thinks "we won't skip a beat" without Bruce is clearly mistaken. It's laughable to think that Bruce in his rookie year, peaked, which is what those are inferring.

 

[SmokinHawk]

Anyone who thinks "we won't skip a beat" without Bruce is clearly mistaken. It's laughable to think that Bruce in his rookie year, peaked, which is what those are inferring.

He is not an every down player at this stage of his career and has enough holes in his game such that he may never be. Cliff Avril's skill set is nearly identical and should provide little to no dropoff from what Irvin would provide. We are no worse off than before.

 

[RichNhansom]

I really dont get why anyone with a half a brain would believe he really was busted for adderall. It doesnt make sense that all of our players would be risking suspensions for a drug with such marginal upsides that most people could probably get a doctor's note for anyway. (Most people these day's have some kind of ADD according to doctors these days)

Put me in the camp that unfortunately thinks Irvin and probably Sherman and all the rest probably took some kind of steroid and got busted. Since the league can't release what it is, guess what? Its the most minor thing possible according to the players.

Then why not say it was Marijuana?

Seems like if your going to lie about the substance you would say it was something that would not be potentially tied to performance, wouldn't you?

Seems like if the claim was Pot most would just be saying, well he is in Washington. Don't think this would even be a real conversation unless like Ved said it (adderall) is considered by so many of the younger generation to be like coffee that they think it is worse to get caught smoking pot.

 

[NYCoug]

Anyone who thinks "we won't skip a beat" without Bruce is clearly mistaken. It's laughable to think that Bruce in his rookie year, peaked, which is what those are inferring.

If this team can't withstand the loss of Bruce for 4 games, then they were supremely overrated to begin with. Luckily, they're not. Just like when they lost Browner and didn't skip a beat, they'll do the same without their situational pass rusher. It sucks that Scruggs and Irvin won't play the full 16, or at all in Scruggs' case, but like Smokin I'm thinking that they will overcome. You're right, they might skip a beat, but the offense is going to be so damn powerful that they will be able to mask it for 4 games. At least that's my opinion on the matter. But you know what they say about opinions.

 

[Hawkfan77]

Anyone who thinks "we won't skip a beat" without Bruce is clearly mistaken. It's laughable to think that Bruce in his rookie year, peaked, which is what those are inferring.

He is not an every down player at this stage of his career and has enough holes in his game such that he may never be. Cliff Avril's skill set is nearly identical and should provide little to no dropoff from what Irvin would provide. We are no worse off than before.

You're right because is what he was last year. He will never get better. Situational pass rushers are supremely overrated, I mean who wants more pass rush on 3rd and long situations? And who cares about the loss of depth? Irvin is no better than an UDFA, yep we won't miss him at all... :roll:

That's honestly what some here are saying and that's just ridiculous.

 

[SmokinHawk]

Anyone who thinks "we won't skip a beat" without Bruce is clearly mistaken. It's laughable to think that Bruce in his rookie year, peaked, which is what those are inferring.

He is not an every down player at this stage of his career and has enough holes in his game such that he may never be. Cliff Avril's skill set is nearly identical and should provide little to no dropoff from what Irvin would provide. We are no worse off than before.

You're right because is what he was last year. He will never get better. Situational pass rushers are supremely overrated, I mean who wants more pass rush on 3rd and long situations? And who cares about the loss of depth? Irvin is no better than an UDFA, yep we won't miss him at all... :roll:

That's honestly what some here are saying and that's just ridiculous.

Not really. How much benefit to you expect to get from a guy who comes on the field primarily for third and long? Are you forgetting that we picked up both Cliff Avril AND Michael Bennett, not to mention drafted pass rushing threats in Jordan Hill and Ty Powell? Even without Bruce Irvin, the defensive line is almost assuredly going to be better at stopping the pass, so losing Bruce Irvin on third downs isn't going to have a great deal of impact.

 

[RichNhansom]

Recreational use is all I can see. He was partying and probably drunk and took it to keep partying. Nothing else makes sense.

If he were using it to gain anything he would have to do it on a regular basis and it is way to easy to get a script for. Only possible exception I can think of is possibly before the Atlanta game due to pressure with Clemmons being out but in that game, it looked like our entire team was asleep until late third quarter. I don't recall Bruce even being a factor in that game.

adderall is not what anyone would use as a masking agent so we can count that out.

Saying it was something else and he just lied and claimed adderall also doesn't add up because if he were going to lie in an effort to minimize the perception, he would have said it was Pot, not a drug that could in some way be tied to performance enhancing.

The date the test was administered has yet to be exposed but it was rumored Browner and Shermans was in early September last year. Suggesting the test was for time prior to the season. The results of this test not coming out until May also seems like an off season event to me. Wouldn't we have heard something before now if this test was administered during the season? It's not like he is fighting it and trying to put it off. He admitted it and took responsibility for it. Sherman and Browners results were delayed because both initially were fighting it.

Young guys still in the partying time of their life, during the off season. I would love for them to not party or at least use good judgement if they do but it is at least as likely this is what happened as anything else and in my opinion really about the only option. Nothing else makes real sense when you consider the things we do know.

 

[NYCoug]

Almost forgot to mention that I absolutely love Irvin's candid apology and love that, despite his mistake, he's still looking to better times in the future. He knows he messed up and he's going to attempt to move forward and fix things. It's his first transgression with the Hawks. He's only human, that's all of our tragic flaw in the end. All he can do is hope for better days. Sure, he has an obligation to the team and he let that down. But again, he's human and we all make mistakes. I'm willing to give Bruce a 2nd chance. I don't think he'll disappoint.

 

[Hawkfan77]

You're right because is what he was last year. He will never get better. Situational pass rushers are supremely overrated, I mean who wants more pass rush on 3rd and long situations? And who cares about the loss of depth? Irvin is no better than an UDFA, yep we won't miss him at all... :roll:

That's honestly what some here are saying and that's just ridiculous.

Not really. How much benefit to you expect to get from a guy who comes on the field primarily for third and long? Are you forgetting that we picked up both Cliff Avril AND Michael Bennett, not to mention drafted pass rushing threats in Jordan Hill and Ty Powell? Even without Bruce Irvin, the defensive line is almost assuredly going to be better at stopping the pass, so losing Bruce Irvin on third downs isn't going to have a great deal of impact.

Are you forgetting that Bennett will play the 3tech and we lost Clemons?

How much benefit do I expect from a second year player that led all rookies in sacks last year? Obviously none whatsoever :roll:

 

[Vendark]

Then why not say it was Marijuana?

Seems like if your going to lie about the substance you would say it was something that would not be potentially tied to performance, wouldn't you?

The league has two different drug policies, performance-enhancing and substance abuse. Adderall is in the former, marijuana is in the latter. The league can't say which drug he tested positive for, but they can say which policy he's being suspended under, and they have. Trying to claim it was marijuana would therefore be an obvious lie. Adderall is the least-stigmatizing option that is actually plausible.

 

[SmokinHawk]

You're right because is what he was last year. He will never get better. Situational pass rushers are supremely overrated, I mean who wants more pass rush on 3rd and long situations? And who cares about the loss of depth? Irvin is no better than an UDFA, yep we won't miss him at all... :roll:

That's honestly what some here are saying and that's just ridiculous.

Not really. How much benefit to you expect to get from a guy who comes on the field primarily for third and long? Are you forgetting that we picked up both Cliff Avril AND Michael Bennett, not to mention drafted pass rushing threats in Jordan Hill and Ty Powell? Even without Bruce Irvin, the defensive line is almost assuredly going to be better at stopping the pass, so losing Bruce Irvin on third downs isn't going to have a great deal of impact.

Are you forgetting that Bennett will play the 3tech and we lost Clemons?

How much benefit do I expect from a second year player that led all rookies in sacks last year? Obviously none whatsoever :roll:

Last year wasn't exactly a banner year for rookie pass rushers, given that 8 sacks was the sack leader for rookies. His play was really, really streaky, and that is being rather kind in my assessment. That's not to say he won't improve this year, but I just don't expect him to be much, if at all, better than the free agent pass rushers we picked up.

Bennett will play 3 tech on passing downs, but given Irvin's bullshit, I imagine he will be replaced by Jordan Hill on 3rd down while Bennett plays end. Michael Bennett was primarily an edge rusher for Tampa and could fill those shoes here as well.

Towards midseason or the playoffs, we may be getting Clemons back as well, which would presumably push Cliff Avril to OLB, or off the field entirely as Clem's the best run defending end we have short of Michael Bennett.

I just don't see Bruce Irvin's absence being a major impact in any way, given that we have a dearth of other pass rushers waiting for their shot.

 

[kigenzun]

Bummer drag.

Next man up.

If nothing else, give Jordan Hill that 3rd down role.

I bet he could get 8 sacks in 16 games from that position.

But yeah, I agree these guys need to realize that we so good, we don't need any enhancements to focus on the obvious goal of winning the Superbowl.

 

[RichNhansom]

Then why not say it was Marijuana?

Seems like if your going to lie about the substance you would say it was something that would not be potentially tied to performance, wouldn't you?

The league has two different drug policies, performance-enhancing and substance abuse. Adderall is in the former, marijuana is in the latter. The league can't say which drug he tested positive for, but they can say which policy he's being suspended under, and they have. Trying to claim it was marijuana would therefore be an obvious lie. Adderall is the least-stigmatizing option that is actually plausible.

I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[warden]

First of all we don't know if Clemons is going to be out in September. It is just assumption and speculation that he will be out. Nothing based on fact. The only info coming out of Seahawks organization was Pete Carroll saying that his recovery is go very well, other then that we know nothing

If and that is a big two letter word, Clemons is not ready to go, the biggest hurt that we will feel from the Irvin suspension will be in the development of our advance schemes. With Red, Clemons, Bennet and Avril all being DE, the different types of formations and schemes we would be ruing would be endless. We would be able to shift Bennet back and forth from end to tackle, play 5 man fronts overload one side of the line, drop Avril back into the LB position and blitz him from all different angles, move Irvin all over the place to take advantage of his speed, never mind zone blitzes. Even though Irvin can participate in pre season, so much of the focus (if Clemons is out) will go to preparing Avril and Bennet to play traditional end positions. It is much harder to implement new schemes once the regular season has started. This is where we will feel the most pain caused by Irvin's suspension

 

[hawksincebirth]

At this point, I want to see Pete Carroll publicly state to his team that anybody else caught violating the PED policy gets a second suspension of double the time of the NFL one from him, in addition to the NFL suspension. In Bruce's case, 8 weeks on top of the 4.

Send a damned message. This has got to stop.

if he hasn't already. i don't think he ever will.
smh :34853_doh:

 

[QuickLightning]

I really dont get why anyone with a half a brain would believe he really was busted for adderall. It doesnt make sense that all of our players would be risking suspensions for a drug with such marginal upsides that most people could probably get a doctor's note for anyway. (Most people these day's have some kind of ADD according to doctors these days)

Put me in the camp that unfortunately thinks Irvin and probably Sherman and all the rest probably took some kind of steroid and got busted. Since the league can't release what it is, guess what? Its the most minor thing possible according to the players.

Then why not say it was Marijuana?

Seems like if your going to lie about the substance you would say it was something that would not be potentially tied to performance, wouldn't you?

Seems like if the claim was Pot most would just be saying, well he is in Washington. Don't think this would even be a real conversation unless like Ved said it (adderall) is considered by so many of the younger generation to be like coffee that they think it is worse to get caught smoking pot.

Because the league states pretty bluntly that they were caught with Performance Enhancing Drugs. Pot doesn't get flagged as the same type of offense.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Then why not say it was Marijuana?

Seems like if your going to lie about the substance you would say it was something that would not be potentially tied to performance, wouldn't you?

The league has two different drug policies, performance-enhancing and substance abuse. Adderall is in the former, marijuana is in the latter. The league can't say which drug he tested positive for, but they can say which policy he's being suspended under, and they have. Trying to claim it was marijuana would therefore be an obvious lie. Adderall is the least-stigmatizing option that is actually plausible.

Nice first post. Informative and all-business. Welcome to the board, friend. :2:

 

[Marvin49]

There is just too much BS there to even respond to. Its a pointless endeavor to even try. Your comments about DeBartolo and Policy in particular are laughable.

Whatever. You don't want to get into the debates, then stop trolling around our threads. IIRC, the 49ers had one of their guys popped for PED's last season too.

And if you think my characterization of DeBartelo, Policy & the 49ers front office of the 90's is "laughable" ... well, you have a lot of reading to catch up on.

NFL Probing 49ers for Salary Cap Violations
Cheaters Get of Cheaper in the NFL
The San Franciso Cheat

Charmed - The amazing transformation of Carmen Policy, defender of mobsters, babysitter to flashy kid moguls, and now savior of the Cleveland Browns
DeBartolo Guilty of Felony / $1 million fine, 2 years of probation
The DeBartolo Family and Organized Crime

Do you think you just proved something? None of that is news to me.

As I said....the violations revolved around a contract for Brent Jones that helped the 49ers resign Jim Druckenmiller. As for the rest of the players you mentioned, there is no proof of any of that. Rumors. There are also rumors that Sherman got away with cheating...that doesn't make them true. The 49ers did the crime and they did the time.

As for what I said about your comments in regards to DeBartolo and Policy...I stand by it. You have one article there that is pretty much a hack job trying to destroy a mans character. Plain and simple. You believe all that crap because you want to. If I hated Obama right now I could go find stuff that tells me he's a Socialist from Kenya...doesn't make it true.

The DeBartolos and the mob? That was long rumored...but that was Eddies father, not Eddie. Eddie got himself in trouble in Louisiana and he did the time as well. He should never have done what he did and he paid a steep price...he lost the team.

My point in originally posting was that I thought it was ridiculous that anyone would skew what happened with Irvin into a positive. "I love it...this proves they are trying". That ultimate homerism and while peeps here probably aren't a fan of me I think most would agree with what I just said.

I'm not attacking the Seahawk organization because my guess is that there are players in every organization who are bending the rules. The 49ers of the 90's broke the rules and they paid for it. Lets not make a hero tho of Bruce Irvin because he's cheating. Come on guys...you're better than that.