Cheaters gonna cheat

[SantaClaraHawk]

^^^^ As I said above, if there's evidence that this wasn't how it has been explained (which all sounds reasonable to me), I'll certainly listen to that.

As for the 4-12 9ers last year, if you told me that the Pats saved their one time in-plain-sight cheating scam to make sure they beat the 9ers last year, I'd laugh my ass off and tell you I won't no part of the bridge you're trying to sell me.

The NFL has the video footage. If it's just b-roll of the sideline, it's a non-issue. If it's a zoomed in 8 minute shot of the d-coordinator giving hand signals, there's you're smoking gun. If that's what it is get back to me, but that the Patriots are decking someone out in Patriots gear to hide in plain sight with a video camera just seems unlikely to me.

Whether it's zoomed or not doesn't matter. This is a PatsPulpit style argument--that because it wasn't zoomed sufficiently or that radios have supplanted defensive signals, and 80,000 people are watching anyways.

The rule book says no sideline filming by NFL employees. The Pats are attempting to get around this by saying they were independents. Who would have never been allowed in without the Pats' permission.

You know KS/JL would have been on fire had they tried this last year. Any team can go from last to first in a year, and even if it didn't, it's still just as much wrong. They should be punished just as much if they didn't find "anything" as if they did. If they did this against the Niners this year.

They've had this history of doing the wrong thing for a generation now, and that goes straight to the top. Kraft could have legally paid for the happy ending he wanted, but instead it was such a thrill to do it illegally for just $79 that he did that instead, and then spent millions to successfully make sure people wouldn't see his spasming his elderly gametes into a tissue. It's a win for Kraft and this team.

They have a generational culture of being this way, and because they've "won" with it, they keep getting away with it.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

I would just think if this was a normal documentary, based on the past, the Patriots would have been careful enough to make sure everything they did was take care of. It's strange to me that an organisation that is famous for their attention to detail missed something like informing the Bengals.

 

[Popeyejones]

Whether it's zoomed or not doesn't matter. This is a PatsPulpit style argument--that because it wasn't zoomed sufficiently or that radios have supplanted defensive signals, and 80,000 people are watching anyways.

This is a crazy take.

Your claim is that they were actually cheating and secretly filming hand signals, while at the same time acknowleding that:

(1) nobody in the NFL even uses hand signals anymore

and

(2) Even if teams were still using hand signals it wouldn't matter if the footage was even useful for those purposes or not.


Sorry dude, but I think you just really want to believe.

If there's evidence of malfeasance on the tape or a pattern of this I'm all the way there for it, but honestly if this happened to anyone except the Patriots I don't even think it would be a news item.

 

[HawkGA]

I get the hate for the Patriots, but why on earth would they spy on a 1 win team?

I think it would be hilarious if they used this defense. Come right out and say, "Why the heck would we break the rules to get an advantage on the Bengals? The Bengals?"

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I get the hate for the Patriots, but why on earth would they spy on a 1 win team?

I joked about this too, but I think the Patriot's just try to do this with everyone.

Here's the real question, why on earth would other teams continue to give the Patriot's permission to do anything. Why even let those jackwagons in the building, let alone allow them to film for their "docu-series."

You think Belichick allows other teams press box access to film anything? Hell no. So stop allowing them access. Stop trading with them. Stop everything.

Treat NE like Iran, total and complete trade and communication embargo.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Whether it's zoomed or not doesn't matter. This is a PatsPulpit style argument--that because it wasn't zoomed sufficiently or that radios have supplanted defensive signals, and 80,000 people are watching anyways.

This is a crazy take.

Your claim is that they were actually cheating and secretly filming hand signals, while at the same time acknowleding that:

(1) nobody in the NFL even uses hand signals anymore

and

(2) Even if teams were still using hand signals it wouldn't matter if the footage was even useful for those purposes or not.


Sorry dude, but I think you just really want to believe.

If there's evidence of malfeasance on the tape or a pattern of this I'm all the way there for it, but honestly if this happened to anyone except the Patriots I don't even think it would be a news item.

Dude, just pointing out that there is a rule against teams filming other teams' sidelines. The Patriots themselves have acknowledged that the rule exists, and that they broke it.

That rule has only been strengthened with explicit unequivocal language after Spygate. It's still the rule regardless of technical advances that might make the rule seem stupid. You can't just say, "I didn't follow the rule because it's stupid." If you're already a serial offender, break it and get caught, you're the one who looks stupider than the rule.

Imperfect analogy here, but take marijuana as an example. If you're caught as a player, you get disciplined, including more frequent testing intervals. If you keep doing it, you might not have a job soon. Even if you (and most people) think the rules over pot are draconian, you still have to follow them.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

I get the hate for the Patriots, but why on earth would they spy on a 1 win team?

I joked about this too, but I think the Patriot's just try to do this with everyone.

Here's the real question, why on earth would other teams continue to give the Patriot's permission to do anything. Why even let those jackwagons in the building, let alone allow them to film for their "docu-series."

You think Belichick allows other teams press box access to film anything? Hell no. So stop allowing them access. Stop trading with them. Stop everything.

Treat NE like Iran, total and complete trade and communication embargo.

But we got Justin Coleman and Jacob Hollister in trade from them so let's not get carried away here.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I get the hate for the Patriots, but why on earth would they spy on a 1 win team?

I joked about this too, but I think the Patriot's just try to do this with everyone.

Here's the real question, why on earth would other teams continue to give the Patriot's permission to do anything. Why even let those jackwagons in the building, let alone allow them to film for their "docu-series."

You think Belichick allows other teams press box access to film anything? Hell no. So stop allowing them access. Stop trading with them. Stop everything.

Treat NE like Iran, total and complete trade and communication embargo.

But we got Justin Coleman and Jacob Hollister in trade from them so let's not get carried away here.

We also got screwed in the Deion Branch trade, so it's close to a wash.

The embargo is for the betterment of the game and league.

Think about it, the Patriots entire success can be traced to a 20 year history of getting the better end of trades. Their success rate has to be in the 70-80% range.

They can't draft for crap, so stop trading with them entirely and they'd never win again.

Trade collusion! Who's with me!

 

[getnasty]

It's a matter of time before Malcom Butler tells the real truth about that Superbowl play.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

I get the hate for the Patriots, but why on earth would they spy on a 1 win team?

I joked about this too, but I think the Patriot's just try to do this with everyone.

Here's the real question, why on earth would other teams continue to give the Patriot's permission to do anything. Why even let those jackwagons in the building, let alone allow them to film for their "docu-series."

You think Belichick allows other teams press box access to film anything? Hell no. So stop allowing them access. Stop trading with them. Stop everything.

Treat NE like Iran, total and complete trade and communication embargo.

But we got Justin Coleman and Jacob Hollister in trade from them so let's not get carried away here.

We also got screwed in the Deion Branch trade, so it's close to a wash.

The embargo is for the betterment of the game and league.

Think about it, the Patriots entire success can be traced to a 20 year history of getting the better end of trades. Their success rate has to be in the 70-80% range.

They can't draft for crap, so stop trading with them entirely and they'd never win again.

Trade collusion! Who's with me!

Yeah but Branch was Timmmmmmayyyyy so there's that.


I get what you're saying tho. PCJS have broken through trading with them but really only for good but not great players. Still got the upper hand on both those trades.

I support your collusion though.

 

[Popeyejones]

Whether it's zoomed or not doesn't matter. This is a PatsPulpit style argument--that because it wasn't zoomed sufficiently or that radios have supplanted defensive signals, and 80,000 people are watching anyways.

This is a crazy take.

Your claim is that they were actually cheating and secretly filming hand signals, while at the same time acknowleding that:

(1) nobody in the NFL even uses hand signals anymore

and

(2) Even if teams were still using hand signals it wouldn't matter if the footage was even useful for those purposes or not.


Sorry dude, but I think you just really want to believe.

If there's evidence of malfeasance on the tape or a pattern of this I'm all the way there for it, but honestly if this happened to anyone except the Patriots I don't even think it would be a news item.

Dude, just pointing out that there is a rule against teams filming other teams' sidelines. The Patriots themselves have acknowledged that the rule exists, and that they broke it.

That rule has only been strengthened with explicit unequivocal language after Spygate. It's still the rule regardless of technical advances that might make the rule seem stupid. You can't just say, "I didn't follow the rule because it's stupid." If you're already a serial offender, break it and get caught, you're the one who looks stupider than the rule.

Imperfect analogy here, but take marijuana as an example. If you're caught as a player, you get disciplined, including more frequent testing intervals. If you keep doing it, you might not have a job soon. Even if you (and most people) think the rules over pot are draconian, you still have to follow them.

Gotcha.

Okay, yes, agreed on that.

The rule was broken.

What I'm waiting on is to get more information before I start leveling the claim that it was cheating and a misbegotten attempt to gain a strategic advantage.

If it was that throw the dang book at em but the details that have come out so far sound entirely plausible to me too, though.

 

[Osprey]

So after FOX Sports released the video the story got recycled...What I’ve noticed in every article is the pro forma ‘the Patriots face possible fines and loss of draft picks’.

Got me to thinking, why doesn’t the NFL take the NCAA approach of being ineligible for post season play? I really think teams would shrug off the fines and draft picks aren’t the gold they used to be. No playoffs on the other hand...

 

[pmedic920]

Let me just add “allegedly” to my last post. The explanation could be an elaborate ruse.

Love me some LetterKenny.