Defense Still Wins Championships

[AROS]

Look, who doesn’t love sexy offense, scoring points, making great plays down the field, angry runs, et al…

But watching the divisional round this weekend just underscores to me the importance of having a really, really good defense.

The Lions almost lost because their defense looked like the Seahawks 2023 defense. The Bills defense did lose the game for them because the common factor between both defenses is the lack of good tackling. Poor angles, poor technique, offenses carving the defenses up.

Lions got lucky. Bills couldn’t overcome it.

I don’t expect to see the LOB again in my lifetime but I would love to see a Top 5 defense again. Of course my first wish is to build the trenches on BOTH sides but man, I want a really good defense again.

We can win with our role players on offense. But if you want to see the Seahawks in the divisional round and beyond….

Make the defense your point of emphasis.

 

[seahawks08]

I agree in principle, however an offense can do the same if you are able to pound the ball and have long sustaining drives/ I feel a true offensive minded coach can still build a great defense by hiring the right staff and letting them run the scheme giving them ownership. It’s exciting and nerve racking the same time not knowing who you are getting or how this will all work out, but definitely change will happen. Hoping we as fans can withstand whatever is coming our way!

 

[keasley45]

Look, who doesn’t love sexy offense, scoring points, making great plays down the field, angry runs, et al…

But watching the divisional round this weekend just underscores to me the importance of having a really, really good defense.

The Lions almost lost because their defense looked like the Seahawks 2023 defense. The Bills defense did lose the game for them because the common factor between both defenses is the lack of good tackling. Poor angles, poor technique, offenses carving the defenses up.

Lions got lucky. Bills couldn’t overcome it.

I don’t expect to see the LOB again in my lifetime but I would love to see a Top 5 defense again. Of course my first wish is to build the trenches on BOTH sides but man, I want a really good defense again.

We can win with our role players on offense. But if you want to see the Seahawks in the divisional round and beyond….

Make the defense your point of emphasis.

The trend is turning again. Punishing running game and a strong defense wins.

I mean, Dave Canales put together a good enough plan for TB. Its not like you have to sell the farm for a Shanahan. I mean Shanahan was even beaten by a good ground game and solid defense.

These offenses are now virtually ubiquitous. They've been copied to death and defenses have been lightened to stop the pass happy attacks.

How do you beat an undersized defense? A strong ground game.

It's all cyclical.

 

[AROS]

I agree in principle, however an offense can do the same if you are able to pound the ball and have long sustaining drives/ I feel a true offensive minded coach can still build a great defense by hiring the right staff and letting them run the scheme giving them ownership. It’s exciting and nerve racking the same time not knowing who you are getting or how this will all work out, but definitely change will happen. Hoping we as fans can withstand whatever is coming our way!

I agree, it’s a two point principle. Suffocating running game on offense and ball hawking, stifling defense will win you most games.

It’s not a one dimensional game nor one dimensional answer. It requires both sides to play smart, punishing football.

 

[AROS]

The trend is turning again. Punishing running game and a strong defense wins.

I mean, Dave Canales put together a good enough plan for TB. Its not like you have to sell the farm for a Shanahan. I mean Shanahan was even beaten by a good ground game and solid defense.

These offenses are now virtually ubiquitous. They've been copied to death and defenses have been lightened to stop the pass happy attacks.

How do you beat an undersized defense? A strong ground game.

It's all cyclical.

Precisely.

 

[Appyhawk]

One of my favorite coaches said "If they can't score they can't beat you."

 

[Spin Doctor]

defense doesn’t win championships, a well balanced team does. People have gone back and studied how often the number one defense and number one offense win a Super Bowl, the answer was rarely.

The teams that fair the best are those that can answer multiple different ways. Even the Seahawks SuperBowl team was ranked number 8 in total offense and had a fairly efficient QB.

People keep trying to distill it into generalities when in reality Super Bowl teams are both lucky and usually good in every facet of the game.

 

[OneLofaTatupu]

Fine. Then I’ll take a team that scores more than the other team. Simple.

 

[chris98251]

A defense that can take away a offenses bread and butter any given week be it passing or running is going to take you a long way, one that can take the ball away will give you more short fields and scoring opportunities and not rely on long drives that the refs seem to love to derail with any number of bad or missed calls. You don't need a league leading receiver in yards or catches, you need a team offense, you don't need a rushing leader, but one or two that can run and be a threat and catch the ball.

What you need is a O line that can protect the QB and open holes, A QB that plays within the offense and doesn't lose you games, it's nice to have one that can carry you, but is not the only type that can win, Purdy is proving that now.

 

[Mick063]

I believe you have to play with the hand that is dealt to you. If a given draft class is strong in a given area when the time comes to turn your pick in, then that is the card that has been dealt to you. For example, look at the run on receivers after JSN was drafted. It was just that time of the draft for that talent tier. As a result, you may have an abundance of rookie deal talent in one area and a dearth of rookie deal talent in another. Additionally, since contracts run in four-year cycles (five if you want to extend the first round pick another year), then you are always confronted with contract extensions with a significant pay increase at the veteran minimum. Sometimes when the draft doesn't fall your way, you just have to extend guys that you would otherwise prefer not to.

All of this factors into the premise that you really don't get an unfettered choice in the matter. You basically have to adapt the identity of the team to the skill set of your roster and your roster is heavily dependent upon many factors beyond your control. Further, there are ripple effects that impact you into the future. For example, you may finish last in your division and get the highest draft picks within the division as compensation, but you also get a last place schedule that is going to translate into victories and adversely impact your draft for the year following that. What I'm trying to say is that parity is so effectively built in, that this becomes much more about adapting your team identity to your roster as opposed to adapting your roster to an identity. You don't always get what you envision. The strength of draft classes is cyclic and you gotta dance with the girl that brung ya.

You have all heard the saying, "It is more about the Jimmys and Joes than the "X's and O's". In effect, you are a slave to the roster composition that the system has partially imposed. In other words, some draft years are just strong in particular areas and weak in others. When you go outside of these predetermined draft windows (talent tiers), you are "reaching". Occasionally you hit and look like a genius. More often, you miss and look incompetent. Regardless, the real key is to identify what your roster is really good at and maximize it. If your roster is full of defensive talent than that is the team identity that you should choose for that given roster. Otherwise, I think it is bad management to have a preconceived idea and force an incompatible roster to abide by it. I think it is better to find out what they collectively do best and center your identity around it.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

Balty #1 D right?

 

[Jac]

defense doesn’t win championships, a well balanced team does. People have gone back and studied how often the number one defense and number one offense win a Super Bowl, the answer was rarely.

The teams that fair the best are those that can answer multiple different ways. Even the Seahawks SuperBowl team was ranked number 8 in total offense and had a fairly efficient QB.

People keep trying to distill it into generalities when in reality Super Bowl teams are both lucky and usually good in every facet of the game.

That's the best answer. You have to be at least very good on both sides of the ball and great on one of those sides. If you look at our NFC championship game against SF, they still hung 17 points on that legendary defense. Lynch ran for 109 yards (which helped them win the time of possession game 32 to 28 minutes) or it could have been more.

 

[JustTheTip]

The trend is turning again. Punishing running game and a strong defense wins.

I mean, Dave Canales put together a good enough plan for TB. Its not like you have to sell the farm for a Shanahan. I mean Shanahan was even beaten by a good ground game and solid defense.

These offenses are now virtually ubiquitous. They've been copied to death and defenses have been lightened to stop the pass happy attacks.

How do you beat an undersized defense? A strong ground game.

It's all cyclical.

Which means you have to be capable of real change. For all of his flaws, this was really Pete's downfall. Holmgren, as a pure coach, was much less flawed than Pete but the inability to adapt in a meaningful way was his downfall too.

 

[Ozzy]

I could be wrong but I think the Niners, Detroit, and Baltimore finished 3,4,5 in scoring this year and Balt, KC, San Fran are top 3 in defensive ppg. So you better be elite at both this year lol

 

[RiverDog]

Look, who doesn’t love sexy offense, scoring points, making great plays down the field, angry runs, et al…

But watching the divisional round this weekend just underscores to me the importance of having a really, really good defense.

The Lions almost lost because their defense looked like the Seahawks 2023 defense. The Bills defense did lose the game for them because the common factor between both defenses is the lack of good tackling. Poor angles, poor technique, offenses carving the defenses up.

Lions got lucky. Bills couldn’t overcome it.

I don’t expect to see the LOB again in my lifetime but I would love to see a Top 5 defense again. Of course my first wish is to build the trenches on BOTH sides but man, I want a really good defense again.

We can win with our role players on offense. But if you want to see the Seahawks in the divisional round and beyond….

Make the defense your point of emphasis.

In this case, I think that you're probably right. The Ravens and Niners are the class of their conferences, and both rely heavily on their defenses.

But I don't think it's accurate to make such a definitive statement without adding some sort of qualifier. There are plenty of examples to the contrary. For example, just a few years ago, in 2021, the two conference champs, the Bengals and Rams, had the 17th and 18th ranked defenses. That same year, the Carolina Panthers had the league's 2nd ranked defense and all it got them was a 5-12 record and a top 5 draft pick.

As others have pointed out, I want to build our team with the goal of having a balance between offense and defense.

 

[xray]

A gr8 D can help compensate and level the field when the offense isn't gr8 ; but a team needs both imo .

 

[keasley45]

Which means you have to be capable of real change. For all of his flaws, this was really Pete's downfall. Holmgren, as a pure coach, was much less flawed than Pete but the inability to adapt in a meaningful way was his downfall too.

I dont think either of them ' adapted ' well. They both did what they did very well until they didnt.

But Pete's failures were less schematic than they were due to his inability to create a leadership structure capable of not just fostering a positive growth and competitive learning environment, but MAINTAINING a standard of performance, ENFORCING the standard of excellence, EXTENDING that standard to coaches as well as players, and EMPHASIZING attention to detail.

He was never a confrontational leader. KJ has spoken to this and how it ultimately led to it be ing time for Pete to go, citing an instance when in practice, he made a mistake, and rather than Pete telling him directly, he relied on KNJ to relay the lesson.

I think when we look back on this whole era a few years from now it will be much clearer. Pete chose to stick to his guns and adhere to a mantra of hard nosed, balanced football, without the bells and whistles of current trends on offense... because they are always never more than trends - Spread offense, Run And Shoot, West Coast, etc... they come and go and are all predicated on having elite level play from he qb position - the most difficult position to fill.

That wasnt wrong.

What was wrong was that he was too soft in driving home the standard. Too soft in enforcing it. And ultimately, never brought on board coaches and intermediaries that could do that well enough for him AND who possessed the skill and ability to be considered masters at their craft. He valued personal relationships and supported individual growth and providing opportuites to players and coaches HE SAW as deserving, rather than relying on a more honest metric for measuring performance.

 

[Appyhawk]

Fine. Then I’ll take a team that scores more than the other team. Simple.

That works best if the other team can't score. But your way sells more tickets. I'll give you that. It's the old saying "offense sells tickets, defense wins championships". Having both is the ultimate.

 

[OneLofaTatupu]

That works best if the other team can't score. But your way sells more tickets. I'll give you that. It's the old saying "offense sells tickets, defense wins championships". Having both is the ultimate.

But if my team always scores more than the other team……..that would logically end in a championship

I’ve been sold on defense since we dismantled manning a #1 offense - which is why I’d love Macdonald as head coach. Or Raheem. But I won’t lie detroits OC or even bringing back our boy from Tampa could work

 

[Chawker]

I fully agree that great defense wins championship.

But, we MUST have a OC that can mix his plays, keeping the other team off balance and guessing at whats coming next.

The good old draw play. I'd run this play twice every quarter, why ? It set up the play action pass, then maybe every fifth game on lets say, on our first 2nd and 8 of the game instead of the draw, run the play action and go deep to DK.

I liked putting a TE or two in the back field and useing him like a FB. Anything to confuse the defense.