Ex-FSU QB punches woman, self defense?

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hawknation2015

hawknation2015

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Sprfunk":23kn9a52 said:
hawknation2015":23kn9a52 said:
Sprfunk":23kn9a52 said:
Did you even watch the video? A couple of things I noticed:

1) She rudely forced her way in front of him at the bar.
2) She stuck her face rite into his.
3) As he tries to get to the bar she blocks him with her hips and butt.
4) He grabs the bar with both hands ( he is NOT elbowing anyone) as she is pushing him and adjusting her body in a blocking formation.
5) She hip checks him.
6) She holds her hand in a threating manner.
7) She puts her arm on his neck.
8.) He restrains her hand.
9) She punches him.
100 He hits her back.

It is self defense. Male or Female should not matter in this case. Woman should not be allowed to hit men and expect no recourse.

It is not rite for him to hit her, and visa versa.

Edited for 8 followed by ) is a smile 8) and that did not match my sentiment.

Self defense requires the use of reasonable force that is proportional to the threat of danger posed by the aggressor.

By calling this self defense, you are saying that what he did in punching her was right. When the video begins, she is already in front of him. He clearly touches her and he attempts to push his way to the bar. She turns and says something to him, presumably telling him to stop touching her, yet he continues to touch her and pushes his way forward. She never posed a threat of danger to him that warranted a punch to the face, much less a punch of that velocity. Her "punch" had barely any velocity to it, did not land, and was at least proportional to him having grabbed and refused to release her. He should have waited his turn behind her, given that she arrived at the bar first, and could have easily walked away from the situation if he felt she posed a threat to him. His punch was in no way self defense.

Watch it again. The video does not start with her at the bar. It starts with her cutting him off on the way to the bar. She purposefully stayed in his way. She stuck her butt out to block him. She used her body as a shield. He held onto the bar.
Our society has allowed women to get away with way too much. Many don't feel that laws should govern how they act. In NO way was that girl acting correctly in anything she did. You cannot hit someone, threaten someone, put your arm on some ones neck, and expect nothing to happen. I'm not saying I would hit her, but she put herself in that position. She is not the helpless victim, she is the instigator.

OK, so they were both trying to get to the bar first, and she got there first. That was his cue to wait his turn. Instead, he continued to try to push forward, even after she said something to him.
 

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CurryStopstheRuns":1yid9doe said:
Seahawks1983":1yid9doe said:
And you are doing a spectacular job of advertising that you are a coward who thinks it is ok to hit a woman who says mean things to you.

Doesn't take a lot of courage to call someone a coward while hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet.

I'll call any man who hits a woman a coward to their face, because that is exactly what they are.
 

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Sprfunk":157sj58x said:
hawknation2015":157sj58x said:
Sprfunk":157sj58x said:
Did you even watch the video? A couple of things I noticed:

1) She rudely forced her way in front of him at the bar.
2) She stuck her face rite into his.
3) As he tries to get to the bar she blocks him with her hips and butt.
4) He grabs the bar with both hands ( he is NOT elbowing anyone) as she is pushing him and adjusting her body in a blocking formation.
5) She hip checks him.
6) She holds her hand in a threating manner.
7) She puts her arm on his neck.
8.) He restrains her hand.
9) She punches him.
100 He hits her back.

It is self defense. Male or Female should not matter in this case. Woman should not be allowed to hit men and expect no recourse.

It is not rite for him to hit her, and visa versa.

Edited for 8 followed by ) is a smile 8) and that did not match my sentiment.

Self defense requires the use of reasonable force that is proportional to the threat of danger posed by the aggressor.

By calling this self defense, you are saying that what he did in punching her was right. When the video begins, she is already in front of him. He clearly touches her and he attempts to push his way to the bar. She turns and says something to him, presumably telling him to stop touching her, yet he continues to touch her and pushes his way forward. She never posed a threat of danger to him that warranted a punch to the face, much less a punch of that velocity. Her "punch" had barely any velocity to it, did not land, and was at least proportional to him having grabbed and refused to release her. He should have waited his turn behind her, given that she arrived at the bar first, and could have easily walked away from the situation if he felt she posed a threat to him. His punch was in no way self defense.

Watch it again. The video does not start with her at the bar. It starts with her cutting him off on the way to the bar. She purposefully stayed in his way. She stuck her butt out to block him. She used her body as a shield. He held onto the bar.
Our society has allowed women to get away with way too much. Many don't feel that laws should govern how they act. In NO way was that girl acting correctly in anything she did. You cannot hit someone, threaten someone, put your arm on some ones neck, and expect nothing to happen. I'm not saying I would hit her, but she put herself in that position. She is not the helpless victim, she is the instigator.

None of this justifies punching her in the face. He could have simply let it go, like normal well adjusted men do.
 

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Look to her left. There is room for him there and all she had to do is be kind and let him pass. Why are you completely ignoring her horrible behavior? She is being a total waist of a person. You keep saying all the guy had to do... what about her?

Should he have hit her? HELL NO!!!!

He should have walked away. If he was upset about being punched he should have gotten her arrested for assault. The problem is doing that would get him laughed at for crying about being hit by a girl (I doubt the police take any action however). Its a social norm to completely disregard what actions a woman takes, and simply put the blame on the guy. Its bs.
 
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hawknation2015

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Sprfunk":2d3mqohl said:
Look to her left. There is room for him there and all she had to do is be kind and let him pass. Why are you completely ignoring her horrible behavior? She is being a total waist of a person. You keep saying all the guy had to do... what about her?

Should he have hit her? HELL NO!!!!

He should have walked away. If he was upset about being punched he should have gotten her arrested for assault. The problem is doing that would get him laughed at for crying about being hit by a girl (I doubt the police take any action however). Its a social norm to completely disregard what actions a woman takes, and simply put the blame on the guy. Its bs.

No one is ignoring that she could have acted more reasonably. Making a fist because he would not stop pushing her was a poor choice that escalated the situation. She presumably felt that he was invading her space in the way he continued to push forward to get ahead of her, even after she said something to him. After he grabbed her, her poor effort at a swing, which did not appear to land, only occurred in response to his refusal to let her go. Could she had stood there and waited for someone else to intervene in getting him to release her? Waiting would have been more reasonable on her part. He is also claiming she used the N-word, which would not be at all reasonable on her part.

Even if she could have been more reasonable, nothing she did was tortious or criminal, as from beginning to end, she was acting in self defense of her person in exerting reasonable force that was proportional to the continued batteries he was committing against her, and nothing she did warranted the level of force he used against her with that unnecessary punch.

I don't believe at any point that he felt he was in danger. He just didn't want this girl ordering her drink before him, telling him not to push her, threatening him with a fist that he knew packed no punch, and taking a weak swing in his direction after he refused to let her go. This is the society we now live in, where men no longer allow the lady ahead of them to go first, but also think it is acceptable to harm, control, and dominate women who are not backing down to them. He took that ill-fated swing as an opportunity to exert his dominance and then ran away like a coward.
 

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Your funny man. "He elbowed her" "he pushed her" he grabbed her and would not let go".
You're placing motives on his action that the video does not show. He did not elbow her, he did not push her.
She was 100% in the wrong until he punched her. 100%. And it's not even close.

Putting her fist up and her for arm on his throat is not threatening? Come on man. Just because she is a girl you ignore her actions almost completely, and rake the guy over the coals for being an assault victom. SHE pushed him she threatened him she butt checked him she hit him, But no he was in the wrong.
 
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hawknation2015

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Sprfunk":1srnsl2p said:
Your funny man. "He elbowed her" "he pushed her" he grabbed her and would not let go".
You're placing motives on his action that the video does not show. He did not elbow her, he did not push her.
She was 100% in the wrong until he punched her. 100%. And it's not even close.

Putting her fist up and her for arm on his throat is not threatening? Come on man. Just because she is a girl you ignore her actions almost completely, and rake the guy over the coals for being an assault victom. SHE pushed him she threatened him she butt checked him she hit him, But no he was in the wrong.

Yes, he was in the wrong . . . and it's very sad that you can't see that. I would highly recommend that you not replicate his behavior if a similar situation arises in your life.

My recommendations:
(1) Wait your turn until she has ordered her drink.
(2) Don't touch her as you attempt to grip the bar to get ahead of her.
(3) Don't continue to push forward after she has asked you not to.
(4) Don't grab a woman's arm, without consent, even if you feel disrespected by a much smaller person making a fist.
(5) Don't refuse to release her arm because you are determined to exert your dominance over her.
(6) Most important, don't cold cock her when she poses absolutely no physical threat of danger to you and the amount of force far outweighs what could be considered reasonable.
 

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I guess there is no point in arguing with you further. You have no idea of what equal justice is. You have not come to the conclusion that her actions were at all responsible for the altercation, even though she clearly instigated, escalated, and fueled the situation.
I dont belive you watched the video very well (or you simply cannot be biased about it) because you repeatedly said he did things he clearly did not, like pushing and elbowing.
Perhaps I am off base here but you seem to have a really vested interest in spouse abuse, and I aplaud that, but i think somthing is swaying you far too much. I'm sorry if you experienced something that has you feeling so strongly about this occurrence. It must not have been good for you.

I agree that he was dead wrong and honestly a duche bag to hit her like that. But she was a total duche bag for the entire video. You don't treat people like that, male or female.
I don't belive she should however be able to hide behind the fact that she is a woman. She was wrong.

That's my opinion take it or leave it. I'm about done with it.
 

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She aced him out for position at the bar, then actively blocked him from taking an open spot to her left. Rude, but not illegal.

Instead of allowing her rudeness pass, he pulled on the bar and attempted to shoulder past her blocking attempts.

At this point it's all fairly normal jockeying for position. No actions by either of them have yet to rise to a level of starting a "real" physical confrontation, or they'd arrest everyone trying to worm their way through every crowd at every bar and concert ever.

The start of the physical altercation, the point where someone has crossed a line from what would be considered normal-if-rude jostling to directed violence, is when she turns, puts her elbow to his throat, and draws her fist back to punch him. This is the first threat of violence with the intent to harm we see.

He grabs her arm, which is a defense of her elbow in his throat and a means of controlling her posture to mitigate the threat of her punching him.

She attempts to punch him.

At this point both have been rude, but the only person who has threatened to attack, and then actually attacked, is her. Any man who behaved as she behaved would be hit 9/10 times. And any woman who behaved that way to a drunken stranger in a bar probably gets hit at least a couple times out of 10 as well.

She did everything she could to provoke a violent response. She did this without fear, counting on this drunken man taking her abuse. We haven't gotten to his behavior yet, but she is guilty of wrongdoing. She commits assault, and she brazenly takes advantage of a laws and societal pressure designed to protect women. I agree that her assault upon him likely posed little serious threat to him, but I think you will find it against the law for a smaller individual, even a woman, to assault a larger individual.

Still, she remains entitled to protection by law and societal pressure. His response was wildly disproportionate to her threat, everyone seems to agree on this. There is a reason men don't hit women, and that's because the strength/size differential means that a woman can swing wildly at a man and pose little threat, whereas a full-strength shot from a man is an existential threat to a woman.

The thing is, I don't see many defending his response, or the notion that he should be found guilty and punished for his poor judgment and violence. The notion that pointing out her wrongdoing is tantamount to endorsing violence against women is a strawman. It's also a distraction. This case isn't about violence against women in general, it's about this woman and this man in this situation. It is also a strawman to act as if those pointing out her wrongdoing must believe he was guilty of nothing. Arguing against such strawmen is certainly easier, but it renders any victory meaningless and doesn't advance what should be a serious and honest discussion.

Neither of the two should be adjudicated with one eye on the message that it sends to society, although I grant that this occurs in courtrooms. They should be held to the standards of the law as it stands. A society of laws does not ignore wrongdoing from one party because they are in a protected class.
 
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hawknation2015

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hawk45":3p7e5mc3 said:
She aced him out for position at the bar, then actively blocked him from taking an open spot to her left. Rude, but not illegal.

Instead of allowing her rudeness pass, he pulled on the bar and attempted to shoulder past her blocking attempts.

At this point it's all fairly normal jockeying for position. No actions by either of them have yet to rise to a level of starting a "real" physical confrontation, or they'd arrest everyone trying to worm their way through every crowd at every bar and concert ever.

The start of the physical altercation, the point where someone has crossed a line from what would be considered normal-if-rude jostling to directed violence, is when she turns, puts her elbow to his throat, and draws her fist back to punch him. This is the first threat of violence with the intent to harm we see.

He grabs her arm, which is a defense of her elbow in his throat and a means of controlling her posture to mitigate the threat of her punching him.

She attempts to punch him.

At this point both have been rude, but the only person who has threatened to attack, and then actually attacked, is her. Any man who behaved as she behaved would be hit 9/10 times. And any woman who behaved that way to a drunken stranger in a bar probably gets hit at least a couple times out of 10 as well.

She did everything she could to provoke a violent response. She did this without fear, counting on this drunken man taking her abuse. We haven't gotten to his behavior yet, but she is guilty of wrongdoing. She commits assault, and she brazenly takes advantage of a laws and societal pressure designed to protect women. I agree that her assault upon him likely posed little serious threat to him, but I think you will find it against the law for a smaller individual, even a woman, to assault a larger individual.

Still, she remains entitled to protection by law and societal pressure. His response was wildly disproportionate to her threat, everyone seems to agree on this. There is a reason men don't hit women, and that's because the strength/size differential means that a woman can swing wildly at a man and pose little threat, whereas a full-strength shot from a man is an existential threat to a woman.

The thing is, I don't see many defending his response, or the notion that he should be found guilty and punished for his poor judgment and violence. The notion that pointing out her wrongdoing is tantamount to endorsing violence against women is a strawman. It's also a distraction. This case isn't about violence against women in general, it's about this woman and this man in this situation. It is also a strawman to act as if those pointing out her wrongdoing must believe he was guilty of nothing. Arguing against such strawmen is certainly easier, but it renders any victory meaningless and doesn't advance what should be a serious and honest discussion.

Neither of the two should be adjudicated with one eye on the message that it sends to society, although I grant that this occurs in courtrooms. They should be held to the standards of the law as it stands. A society of laws does not ignore wrongdoing from one party because they are in a protected class.

"Elbow in his throat" . . . that just shows that people will see what they want to see. Not even he has made that accusation.
 

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hawknation2015":1x4spcj9 said:
hawk45":1x4spcj9 said:
She aced him out for position at the bar, then actively blocked him from taking an open spot to her left. Rude, but not illegal.

Instead of allowing her rudeness pass, he pulled on the bar and attempted to shoulder past her blocking attempts.

At this point it's all fairly normal jockeying for position. No actions by either of them have yet to rise to a level of starting a "real" physical confrontation, or they'd arrest everyone trying to worm their way through every crowd at every bar and concert ever.

The start of the physical altercation, the point where someone has crossed a line from what would be considered normal-if-rude jostling to directed violence, is when she turns, puts her elbow to his throat, and draws her fist back to punch him. This is the first threat of violence with the intent to harm we see.

He grabs her arm, which is a defense of her elbow in his throat and a means of controlling her posture to mitigate the threat of her punching him.

She attempts to punch him.

At this point both have been rude, but the only person who has threatened to attack, and then actually attacked, is her. Any man who behaved as she behaved would be hit 9/10 times. And any woman who behaved that way to a drunken stranger in a bar probably gets hit at least a couple times out of 10 as well.

She did everything she could to provoke a violent response. She did this without fear, counting on this drunken man taking her abuse. We haven't gotten to his behavior yet, but she is guilty of wrongdoing. She commits assault, and she brazenly takes advantage of a laws and societal pressure designed to protect women. I agree that her assault upon him likely posed little serious threat to him, but I think you will find it against the law for a smaller individual, even a woman, to assault a larger individual.

Still, she remains entitled to protection by law and societal pressure. His response was wildly disproportionate to her threat, everyone seems to agree on this. There is a reason men don't hit women, and that's because the strength/size differential means that a woman can swing wildly at a man and pose little threat, whereas a full-strength shot from a man is an existential threat to a woman.

The thing is, I don't see many defending his response, or the notion that he should be found guilty and punished for his poor judgment and violence. The notion that pointing out her wrongdoing is tantamount to endorsing violence against women is a strawman. It's also a distraction. This case isn't about violence against women in general, it's about this woman and this man in this situation. It is also a strawman to act as if those pointing out her wrongdoing must believe he was guilty of nothing. Arguing against such strawmen is certainly easier, but it renders any victory meaningless and doesn't advance what should be a serious and honest discussion.

Neither of the two should be adjudicated with one eye on the message that it sends to society, although I grant that this occurs in courtrooms. They should be held to the standards of the law as it stands. A society of laws does not ignore wrongdoing from one party because they are in a protected class.

"Elbow in his throat" . . . that just shows that people will see what they want to see. Not even he has made that accusation.

It's in the video.
 
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hawknation2015

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Spounge84":1ygwraq1 said:
hawknation2015":1ygwraq1 said:
hawk45":1ygwraq1 said:
She aced him out for position at the bar, then actively blocked him from taking an open spot to her left. Rude, but not illegal.

Instead of allowing her rudeness pass, he pulled on the bar and attempted to shoulder past her blocking attempts.

At this point it's all fairly normal jockeying for position. No actions by either of them have yet to rise to a level of starting a "real" physical confrontation, or they'd arrest everyone trying to worm their way through every crowd at every bar and concert ever.

The start of the physical altercation, the point where someone has crossed a line from what would be considered normal-if-rude jostling to directed violence, is when she turns, puts her elbow to his throat, and draws her fist back to punch him. This is the first threat of violence with the intent to harm we see.

He grabs her arm, which is a defense of her elbow in his throat and a means of controlling her posture to mitigate the threat of her punching him.

She attempts to punch him.

At this point both have been rude, but the only person who has threatened to attack, and then actually attacked, is her. Any man who behaved as she behaved would be hit 9/10 times. And any woman who behaved that way to a drunken stranger in a bar probably gets hit at least a couple times out of 10 as well.

She did everything she could to provoke a violent response. She did this without fear, counting on this drunken man taking her abuse. We haven't gotten to his behavior yet, but she is guilty of wrongdoing. She commits assault, and she brazenly takes advantage of a laws and societal pressure designed to protect women. I agree that her assault upon him likely posed little serious threat to him, but I think you will find it against the law for a smaller individual, even a woman, to assault a larger individual.

Still, she remains entitled to protection by law and societal pressure. His response was wildly disproportionate to her threat, everyone seems to agree on this. There is a reason men don't hit women, and that's because the strength/size differential means that a woman can swing wildly at a man and pose little threat, whereas a full-strength shot from a man is an existential threat to a woman.

The thing is, I don't see many defending his response, or the notion that he should be found guilty and punished for his poor judgment and violence. The notion that pointing out her wrongdoing is tantamount to endorsing violence against women is a strawman. It's also a distraction. This case isn't about violence against women in general, it's about this woman and this man in this situation. It is also a strawman to act as if those pointing out her wrongdoing must believe he was guilty of nothing. Arguing against such strawmen is certainly easier, but it renders any victory meaningless and doesn't advance what should be a serious and honest discussion.

Neither of the two should be adjudicated with one eye on the message that it sends to society, although I grant that this occurs in courtrooms. They should be held to the standards of the law as it stands. A society of laws does not ignore wrongdoing from one party because they are in a protected class.

"Elbow in his throat" . . . that just shows that people will see what they want to see. Not even he has made that accusation.

It's in the video.

She reaches her hand out, as if to say stop touching me, but I don't see where she makes any contact with "his throat."

And that hasn't been alleged.
 

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hawknation2015":12uedqc1 said:
hawk45":12uedqc1 said:
She aced him out for position at the bar, then actively blocked him from taking an open spot to her left. Rude, but not illegal.

Instead of allowing her rudeness pass, he pulled on the bar and attempted to shoulder past her blocking attempts.

At this point it's all fairly normal jockeying for position. No actions by either of them have yet to rise to a level of starting a "real" physical confrontation, or they'd arrest everyone trying to worm their way through every crowd at every bar and concert ever.

The start of the physical altercation, the point where someone has crossed a line from what would be considered normal-if-rude jostling to directed violence, is when she turns, puts her elbow to his throat, and draws her fist back to punch him. This is the first threat of violence with the intent to harm we see.

He grabs her arm, which is a defense of her elbow in his throat and a means of controlling her posture to mitigate the threat of her punching him.

She attempts to punch him.

At this point both have been rude, but the only person who has threatened to attack, and then actually attacked, is her. Any man who behaved as she behaved would be hit 9/10 times. And any woman who behaved that way to a drunken stranger in a bar probably gets hit at least a couple times out of 10 as well.

She did everything she could to provoke a violent response. She did this without fear, counting on this drunken man taking her abuse. We haven't gotten to his behavior yet, but she is guilty of wrongdoing. She commits assault, and she brazenly takes advantage of a laws and societal pressure designed to protect women. I agree that her assault upon him likely posed little serious threat to him, but I think you will find it against the law for a smaller individual, even a woman, to assault a larger individual.

Still, she remains entitled to protection by law and societal pressure. His response was wildly disproportionate to her threat, everyone seems to agree on this. There is a reason men don't hit women, and that's because the strength/size differential means that a woman can swing wildly at a man and pose little threat, whereas a full-strength shot from a man is an existential threat to a woman.

The thing is, I don't see many defending his response, or the notion that he should be found guilty and punished for his poor judgment and violence. The notion that pointing out her wrongdoing is tantamount to endorsing violence against women is a strawman. It's also a distraction. This case isn't about violence against women in general, it's about this woman and this man in this situation. It is also a strawman to act as if those pointing out her wrongdoing must believe he was guilty of nothing. Arguing against such strawmen is certainly easier, but it renders any victory meaningless and doesn't advance what should be a serious and honest discussion.

Neither of the two should be adjudicated with one eye on the message that it sends to society, although I grant that this occurs in courtrooms. They should be held to the standards of the law as it stands. A society of laws does not ignore wrongdoing from one party because they are in a protected class.

"Elbow in his throat" . . . that just shows that people will see what they want to see. Not even he has made that accusation.

Thanks for the honest opinion. ^^ As far as I'm concerned your spot on.

Lol bro, people do see what they want to see. For instance you saw him elbowing her. Please show me were that happend. You say he pushed her. Please show that because I saw him grab the bar to not loose his balance after she pushed him with her butt/hips.
You can't see when she clearly puts her left forearm on his throat.
But it happend in the video.
In fact you even say that the video shows her waiting at the bar when comes and pushes her in the back. Then you look again in see that you're wrong, but say nothing.

You saw what you want to see. What you saw was wrong. My question to you would be why. Why do you only see this one way. What happended to make you only see him as bad and her as good.

Is it because she is a woman and he is a man, or because she is a white woman and him a black man.

What makes you so blind to the actual footage?
 
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hawknation2015

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Sprfunk":35md3ay5 said:
hawknation2015":35md3ay5 said:
hawk45":35md3ay5 said:
She aced him out for position at the bar, then actively blocked him from taking an open spot to her left. Rude, but not illegal.

Instead of allowing her rudeness pass, he pulled on the bar and attempted to shoulder past her blocking attempts.

At this point it's all fairly normal jockeying for position. No actions by either of them have yet to rise to a level of starting a "real" physical confrontation, or they'd arrest everyone trying to worm their way through every crowd at every bar and concert ever.

The start of the physical altercation, the point where someone has crossed a line from what would be considered normal-if-rude jostling to directed violence, is when she turns, puts her elbow to his throat, and draws her fist back to punch him. This is the first threat of violence with the intent to harm we see.

He grabs her arm, which is a defense of her elbow in his throat and a means of controlling her posture to mitigate the threat of her punching him.

She attempts to punch him.

At this point both have been rude, but the only person who has threatened to attack, and then actually attacked, is her. Any man who behaved as she behaved would be hit 9/10 times. And any woman who behaved that way to a drunken stranger in a bar probably gets hit at least a couple times out of 10 as well.

She did everything she could to provoke a violent response. She did this without fear, counting on this drunken man taking her abuse. We haven't gotten to his behavior yet, but she is guilty of wrongdoing. She commits assault, and she brazenly takes advantage of a laws and societal pressure designed to protect women. I agree that her assault upon him likely posed little serious threat to him, but I think you will find it against the law for a smaller individual, even a woman, to assault a larger individual.

Still, she remains entitled to protection by law and societal pressure. His response was wildly disproportionate to her threat, everyone seems to agree on this. There is a reason men don't hit women, and that's because the strength/size differential means that a woman can swing wildly at a man and pose little threat, whereas a full-strength shot from a man is an existential threat to a woman.

The thing is, I don't see many defending his response, or the notion that he should be found guilty and punished for his poor judgment and violence. The notion that pointing out her wrongdoing is tantamount to endorsing violence against women is a strawman. It's also a distraction. This case isn't about violence against women in general, it's about this woman and this man in this situation. It is also a strawman to act as if those pointing out her wrongdoing must believe he was guilty of nothing. Arguing against such strawmen is certainly easier, but it renders any victory meaningless and doesn't advance what should be a serious and honest discussion.

Neither of the two should be adjudicated with one eye on the message that it sends to society, although I grant that this occurs in courtrooms. They should be held to the standards of the law as it stands. A society of laws does not ignore wrongdoing from one party because they are in a protected class.

"Elbow in his throat" . . . that just shows that people will see what they want to see. Not even he has made that accusation.

Thanks for the honest opinion. ^^ As far as I'm concerned your spot on.

Lol bro, people do see what they want to see. For instance you saw him elbowing her. Please show me were that happend. You say he pushed her. Please show that because I saw him grab the bar to not loose his balance after she pushed him with her butt/hips.
You can't see when she clearly puts her left forearm on his throat.
But it happend in the video.
In fact you even say that the video shows her waiting at the bar when comes and pushes her in the back. Then you look again in see that you're wrong, but say nothing.

You saw what you want to see. What you saw was wrong. My question to you would be why. Why do you only see this one way. What happended to make you only see him as bad and her as good.

Is it because she is a woman and he is a man, or because she is a white woman and him a black man.

What makes you so blind to the actual footage?

It's because I see nothing in the video to indicate that the hand she reached out actually touched him, and he has not alleged that she touched his throat. Therefore, I think you are making things up. Because you, like most men, find it difficult to put yourself in a woman's position. A woman who was being touched by a much larger man in a bar without her consent.
 
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hawknation2015

hawknation2015

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Sprfunk":37llnlyn said:
16 second mark.

Yes, she reaches her hand out to say "back away," she doesn't make contact with him. A woman who is asking not to be touched typically does not touch the man. She wanted him to get away from her.
 

Spounge84

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hawknation2015":2t0clnt7 said:
Sprfunk":2t0clnt7 said:
16 second mark.

Yes, she reaches her hand out to say "back away," she doesn't make contact with him. A woman who is asking not to be touched typically does not touch the man. She wanted him to get away from her.

No contact? No your just making shit up as you go along, she clearly has her forearm on his collarbone/throat area.
 

CurryStopstheRuns

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Seahawks1983":1k0hghsy said:
CurryStopstheRuns":1k0hghsy said:
Seahawks1983":1k0hghsy said:
And you are doing a spectacular job of advertising that you are a coward who thinks it is ok to hit a woman who says mean things to you.

Doesn't take a lot of courage to call someone a coward while hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet.

I'll call any man who hits a woman a coward to their face, because that is exactly what they are.

No, no you wouldn't, and you know that.
 

Seahawks1983

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CurryStopstheRuns":2keuduna said:
Seahawks1983":2keuduna said:
CurryStopstheRuns":2keuduna said:
Seahawks1983":2keuduna said:
And you are doing a spectacular job of advertising that you are a coward who thinks it is ok to hit a woman who says mean things to you.

Doesn't take a lot of courage to call someone a coward while hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet.

I'll call any man who hits a woman a coward to their face, because that is exactly what they are.

No, no you wouldn't, and you know that.

Why wouldn't I? You think I am scared of guys who hit women, or think it is ok to hit women? Please.
 

kearly

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Seahawks1983":3gqc5cqo said:
Why wouldn't I? You think I am scared of guys who hit women, or think it is ok to hit women? Please.

Who is this person you speak of? Because if you are referring to me, I clearly said that I am glad the guy got expelled and hope he is charged.

I just think it's pretty weak how she took advantage of a societal code meant to protect women, and then hid behind it to antagonize and assault a man. I totally agree that he should have walked away. I just think both parties did awful things. I think Hawk45 put it very well in his assessment.
 
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