Forgotten WR?

[Sherminator]

Soooo..
Before combine: "He's a 2nd/3rd pick"
After combine: "OMG those test numbers! A 5th round pick!"
After ProDay: "OMG those test numbers! A 1st/2nd round pick!"

Really?? :lol: :lol:
GM's do not use the combine and Pro Day as their main source of evaluation and they certainly wouldn't drop or raise the stock of a prospect +/- four rounds because of it, either.
:49ersmall:

Not sure what the 49 logo has anything to do with this, but whatever.

Actually GM's do use the combine AND pro-day as a HUGE source of evaluation.
There have been pro-days and combines where a player has taken their draft stock WAY down. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've seen about 5 players in this years draft get bumped down 3-4 rounds because of a bad pro-day/combine.


Besides, those rankings I posted are from my personal draft rankings, not anybody elses. I didn't say I was speaking on behalf of a GM, I claimed thats where I have him going.

If you want to argue with me about my opinions on something I created, you already lost.

 

[cover-2]

Sure, exclude his pro day, but then factor in that Robinson was 20lbs heavier than Norwood, and you excluded his short shuttle (PC and JS value it a lot higher) which was elite.

It's all very well being confident in something that can't be proven, but there's no point arguing whether or not he'd have dropped to the 5/6 round on his combine (he wouldn't), cause the guy just tore up his pro day after shedding a few pounds and I doubt he sees it past the 2nd.

Glad you bought up Norword though, now there's a forgotten WR that I rather like.

The original post I had talked about excludes his pro-day.
I posted that I had done a draft ranking after the combine, before his pro-day. In that draft ranking I did I had him going round 5.

I do agree his pro-day puts him back on top to round 1 (theres a small chance) most likely 2.

I'm just saying, for the skill set he is known for, and the way he performed at the combine, a lot of GM's looked to other WR with similar skill sets that performed better. (thats just my thinking)

I do agree about Norwood though. I cannot for the LIFE of me figure out why he is projected to go so low. I mean espn puts people like Josh Huff, Mike Davis, Tj Jones in front of him.
Really?

Norwoord's age may have him downgraded a couple rounds. Norwoord is 24 years old whereas Robinson is only 20 years old. Also another thing to consider is that Robinson's playing weight (between 208 -210 lbs) is 10 - 15 pounds more than Norwood.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Soooo..
Before combine: "He's a 2nd/3rd pick"
After combine: "OMG those test numbers! A 5th round pick!"
After ProDay: "OMG those test numbers! A 1st/2nd round pick!"

Really?? :lol: :lol:
GM's do not use the combine and Pro Day as their main source of evaluation and they certainly wouldn't drop or raise the stock of a prospect +/- four rounds because of it, either.
:49ersmall:

Not sure what the 49 logo has anything to do with this, but whatever.

You're right. My bad, I can't help it. It's second nature to throw a jab at 49er fans.

Actually GM's do use the combine AND pro-day as a HUGE source of evaluation.

"Huge" =/= "Main", but I'll bite. No, they don't use the test measurables as a "HUGE" source of evaluation. (it goes without saying medical and interviews ARE very important).

The test measurable are only a small small part of the draft process to Scouts and GMs because they will already have a very good idea of what the the players at the combine bring to the table. To fans and media, a prospects grade will change up or down because they are way behind the scouting community in their grades. To Scouts and GM's, their draft grade will vary little. Read this article by The Boston Globe,Pro Day workouts mean little to NFL teams:

"The Pro Day is only a tiny piece of the overall scouting equation." “At the end of the day, the tape and the fall grades are the most important grades,” - NFL executive

"“It may be indicative of a bigger problem, or it may have just been a bad day,” said Riddick. “You never want to ever go 180 from your original evaluation based off of a Pro Day, ever. It should never make you flip-flop or change your opinion. But it will make you go back and reevaluate and watch more film and make sure you’re not missing something.” - Louis Riddick, ex-scout

There have been pro-days and combines where a player has taken their draft stock WAY down. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've seen about 5 players in this years draft get bumped down 3-4 rounds because of a bad pro-day/combine.

And you know this how, exactly? Either share the name of active general managers or scouts you know that dropped a prospects draft stock because of a bad pro-day/combine or lets stick to facts. Those draft grades you read on CBS and ESPN aren't based on reality.

"It isn't crazy to think some scouts are ahead of journalists when it comes to player analysis." - Mike Hagen, ex-scout

Besides, those rankings I posted are from my personal draft rankings, not anybody elses. I didn't say I was speaking on behalf of a GM, I claimed thats where I have him going.

If you want to argue with me about my opinions on something I created, you already lost.

You wrote that after the combine, you were "confident teams would take 15" receivers over Allen Robinson based on his combine, but now after his Pro-Day he's back in first round discussion?

I'm not arguing your list. You can flip-flop your draft grades all you want. I'm arguing that the combine and pro-day numbers don't affect a players draft stock to GMs and scouts as much as you seem to think.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Instead of starting another Allen Robinson, I thought I'd add this draft nugget By Russ Lande:

Although he lacks the rare size of Mike Evans, Robinson has consistently been mentioned in the same breath by NFL personnel -- as a big, thickly built receiver with great ball skills that could be a game changer at the next level. Few big receivers are as polished coming into the league as he is, and combined with his willingness to catch passes in heavy traffic right before taking big hits, he has all the tools to make an immediate impact. Scouts have told me that teams looking for a big-bodied receiver could get the same value waiting and taking him in the bottom of the first round rather than trading up to go after Evans. Aside from size, they feel there's no real comparison between him and Kelvin Benjamin when it comes to on-field consistency, effort and production -- which is why they expect Robinson will be drafted ahead of Benjamin.

Read the rest here.

 

[Sac]

Jordan Matthews is going to be the WR steal of the draft. He'll produce, and keep producing. He's got that chip on his shoulder.

 

[brimsalabim]

IMO We got guys who can win on open field deep routes already. What we lack is guys who can win their route and separate in the red zone.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Jordan Matthews is going to be the WR steal of the draft. He'll produce, and keep producing. He's got that chip on his shoulder.

He is the one WR I don't want. There are 10-15 I prefer over him.

 

[QuahHawk]

Soooo..
Before combine: "He's a 2nd/3rd pick"
After combine: "OMG those test numbers! A 5th round pick!"
After ProDay: "OMG those test numbers! A 1st/2nd round pick!"

More like
Before combine: "He's a early to late 2nd pick"
After combine: "OMG those test numbers! A late 2nd to mid 3rd round pick!"
After ProDay: "OMG those test numbers! A mid 2nd to early 3rd round pick!"

When the Seahawks find their guy they get him. If they wanted Robinson they might have to use their 1st.
Besides his 40 he actually had numbers that showed him to be very explosive.

combine #'s
39" Vert (#6 tied and #1 Reese with 41.5" and #3 Moncrief & Adams 39.5")
10'7" Broad Jump (#3 tied with M. Lee with #1 Moncrief @ 11')
4.0 Short Shuttle (#7 with #1 Cooks @ 3.81 and #3 Beckham @ 3.94)

So Basically his numbers showed the truth his in not a deep burner but can get jump balls and is quick enough to get some seperation and use his big body to shield the defender. I'd be happy with Robinson but would prefer him at #64 and his pro day might have just bumped him up higher than that.

 

[Snohomie]

Robinson is the best "big" WR in one important category - sinking his hips and generating separation at the top of his route, at least with short and mid range. The burst shows on his YAC too, he can cut and get back to full speed like a smaller receiver.

I'm less than thrilled with some jump balls I have seen, and he's not a "take the top off the defense" threat, but his tape screams Keenan Allen, but honestly more athletic talent. I don't know where he will go, and I half suspect Seattle is targeting a better deep ball threat, but someone is going to get great production out of him (if his head is on straight - I know nothing about his character).

 

[Hasselbeck]

There is no way in hell Allen Robinson was ever dropping to Round 6. Whoever says that is crazy.

I've loved this kid since I watched his tape.. he's going to be a Pro Bowl WR one day. I firmly believe it.