Is Harvin not a "starter"?

[makkapakka]

This is just a little thing that has kind of annoys me, but there have been quite a few professional articles stating that the Seahawks were missing 4 starters on offense against the Colts. I don't know about you guys but for the amount of $ Harvin is getting, I sure hope that he counts as a "starter".

Even right now the latest Seahawks article on ESPN states:

Both starting tackles -- Russell Okung and Breno Giacomini -- are out for Seattle. Tight end Zach Miller could also sit.

Why is Okung a notable injury but Harvin is not?

 

[Sarlacc83]

Because he's on the PUP so he's the forgotten man. I don't think many people on this board consider him a starter for Seattle yet since he hasn't played a single meaningful down for the Hawks yet.

 

[drdiags]

I guess they are thinking more like season opener starter vs an assumed starter. The nationals would have to make an assumption that Harvin was a starter. 99% likely a fact but it never got a chance to happen.

 

[oldhawkfan]

Hard to say a guy is a starter when he has NEVER worn a Seahawks uniform in any kind of game. Preseason or regular.

 

[CANHawk]

And he's more than likely going to "start" in the slot. Is the 3rd reciever "technically" a starter? Is the slot reciever "technically" the "3rd" reciever. If I can't believe that it's not "butter", does that mean that it really is..? I dunno.

Really, it's all just semantics though. Who gives a fart?

 

[makkapakka]

So Okung is on IR and Harvin is on PUP? I guess that I'm not familiar with the nuanced difference. I still think the articles are missing a key point.

 

[bestfightstory]

This is an outrage!!

 

[warden]

Harvin was is technically not a starter. He is a slot receiver/specialist that will see about 75% of the snaps

Who really cares what they call him, all that matters is what he can contribute to the team when he comes off his injury

 

[Sarlacc83]

So Okung is on IR and Harvin is on PUP? I guess that I'm not familiar with the nuanced difference. I still think the articles are missing a key point.

Okung is on IR with Designation to return. Which is a new IR term this year. It means that if he gets injured and put on IR (coming up) he can still play this season.

IR is for players who cannot play the entire season. You can get tagged with this anytime after a year ending injury.

PUP is Physically Unable to Perform. It means the player is not eligible to return to the roster until after week 6, though it does indicate the likelihood of the player returning. (Though they can still get put on IR if rehab goes poorly.) This has to be designated for a player before preseason.

 

[MrCarey]

Hard to say a guy is a starter when he has NEVER worn a Seahawks uniform in any kind of game. Preseason or regular.

I knew it was smart to read before posting, because I came to say the exact same words. Gotta see the guy in our colors AND actually PLAYING to be a starter. Even his Twitter account still has him as a Viking in the background.

 

[McGruff]

All this starter/non-starter stuff is speculation anyway. No one here knows whether Harvin would start or not . . . I figured he would start opposite rice and move to the slot when we go three wide.

 

[Basis4day]

So Okung is on IR and Harvin is on PUP? I guess that I'm not familiar with the nuanced difference. I still think the articles are missing a key point.

I'd rathe not be reminded about Harvin in every article, only because he hasn't played for us yet.

In a nutshell PUP means the player never played after the start of training camp and still cant at the beginning of the season. If you practice or play in a preseason game, even one play, you no longer qualify for PUP. PUP players do NOT count against the regular season 53 man limit, but can return after week 6 of the regular season. You need to clear a roster spot for them. If they are still not healthy enough to play they usually get moved to IR.

IR is a player with a significant injury who was not eligible for PUP because they practiced in training camp or played in a preseason game.
Injured players count against the 53 man roster, so if a player experiences a significant injury you need to make a judgement call. You can place them on IR and that player is not allowed to play for the entire year (but do NOT take up a roster spot on the 53), or they can take up a roster spot and you're limited to a pool of 52 players of which to activate 46 on game day. You could IR a player that is PUP eligible, but there really isn't a reason to since you want to hope for the best that they can return at Week 6 when you can IR them anyway.

This year there is a new designation called "Injured Reserve Designated for Return". You're allowed to place it on one and only one player per year (We used it on Okung). They no longer take up a roster spot, but can return after sitting out 8 games.



Call them missing key players if you want. It's really not that big of a deal. Starters are just your base offense and your base defense.

So for offense it's usually the Line (5), 1 TE, 2 WR, QB, RB, FB. So you're not factoring in additional receivers.

On D it's the base 4-3. So it would exclude guys like Bennett, who may actually play more snaps than Big Red in certain games.

 

[3Girls'HawkDad]

Harvin is injured. He can't start because he is not playing. Thilly goothe!

 

[TwistedHusky]

We have never used him as a starter.

We still have no idea how he is going to work with the existing team.

I am on the fence on this one, if Harvin works out - is it worth what we gave up for him (both in draft and cap space)?

Does his signing mean that we cannot retain existing pieces of the team (like Sherman or ET3 for example)?

How much better does he make our offense? What do we give up in production of other offensive pieces in exchange for using him?

With all those questions, even if he is slated to start, I am not sure you can use his absence in the same context you usually use "the loss of a starter", because the loss of a starter usually implies that you have to use a replacement piece that other parts of the team are not as used to working with, and that is usually a significant drop in ability/impact.

I have always been a combination of a fan and skeptic. Generally in life nothing is ever as good as you hope and nothing is ever as bad as you fear. I suspect the addition of Harvin is going to work out that way but I would love to be wrong. Thus far, until we can muster an effective and healthy oline AND KEEP IT HEALTHY - who plays receiver is probably not as important since if you cannot get him the ball it hardly matters.

I am excited to see what Harvin brings to the table but I would much rather see our offensive line play well and Russell start playing like he did at the latter half of last season.

 

[Crizilla]

Same reason why people haven't been saying Harvin will be out since week 1. He's forgotten until he's eligible to play.

 

[makkapakka]

Thanks for several of the responses explaining the difference between PUP, IR, and IR-designated-to-return. It still seems to be a pretty subtle difference to me that Okung is listed every game because he is IR-designated-to-return, vs Harvin who is PUP (to return).

Obviously this isn't a huge deal to me, as I mentioned just kind-of annoyed, but personally I would prefer to seem Harvin listed on the injury report for every game. Seahawks are playing minus almost half their starting offense and I think the professional articles should put it that way.

Unless of course Harvin is not listed because even if healthy he is not a starter. Which to me at his salary is hard to fathom. But it's true that's not the way the PC Seahawks operate.

Or I suppose there is a chance the decision to list him or not is based on his twitter pic.