Kaep one foot out the door?

[hawksfansinceday1]

As I stated Popeye, Jaworski said he believed Kaep "could be one of the best ever".

And despite your assertions that this about salty Hawks fans to me it's about Jaworski's inability to see that Kaep was and remains, a one read and run QB. Others, including knowledgeable people on these boards, saw it. I find it rather amusing that a guy like him that played in the NFL and is paid to be knowledgeable about the game, didn't see it and therefore state he had a chance to be one of the best ever IF he learned to read defenses or something along those lines.

And IMO people still do talk about it as I saw someone at ESPN (likely on NFL Live) jab him about it just last season on air.

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[sutz]

I thought he had one foot out the door for a couple of years, now. I think the 9ers might be stuck, though.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

I'm listening to Doug Gottlieb interview Steve Wyche of NFL Network who was the one who first interviewed Kaep about sitting through the anthem. Both guys made a couple of points that are worth thinking about from a football/49er perspective:


1. Some owners will not sign him because of their perception he disrespected the USA/Police/Military so his options to play elsewhere have shrunk and as such the 9ers options for trading him have shrunk.

2. (and most relevant IMO) the 9ers are really between a rock and hard place here because if they cut him now even if it's strictly for football performance reasons it will look like retaliation for his stance and related actions.

3. To further make matters worse, Chip Kelley was accused of racism by former player LeSean McCoy and this would for sure add fuel to that fire as well.

4. If they keep him on te roster tiul next April 1st, he is guarenteed 14 and some odd million for next season.

 

[Sports Hernia]

How can this be?!? Jaws says that he'll be the best QB in the history of ever! :mrgreen:

'Oh now c'mon, that's hyperbole. He said ONE OF the best ever. :lol:

He said Kaepernick could end up being one of the best as based on his physical skill set, not that he already was or was definitely going to be one of the best. In the same post he even prefaced by saying that Kaepernick still has a lot to prove before he can even be in the conversation with the current top QBs of the time. His argument was that Kap was making a case for being included in what he called the "Big 3 of young QBs", which at the time he said was Wilson, RGIII, and Luck (all of whom, including Kaepernick, he thought, were being protected by schemes back then, and still had a lot of developing to do before becoming complete QBs)

And save for salty Hawks fans who despite rooting for one of the best and most widely celebrated teams in the NFL are still consistently on the hunt for things to feel disrespected about, nobody at the time or since then even really noticed or cared.

That you guys are still smarting over a generally unnoticed thing a commentator said once (let alone dramatically misquoting it to up the disrespect quotient) is super corny.

No doubt that if someone says Dak Prescott has the skill set to maybe end up truly being great we'll have a rinse & repeat.

Wow, some major league level spinning right there....


Some of us "salty Hawks fans" had fhe Kraepper pegged from the first game he played against Seattle. Much to the angst of the 49'er folks here that howled at the notion that your hero #7 was refered to as "Captain one read". I'm pretty sure you may have been included in that group?

 

[Maulbert]

His argument was that Kap was making a case for being included in what he called the "Big 3 of young QBs", which at the time he said was Wilson, RGIII, and Luck (all of whom, including Kaepernick, he thought, were being protected by schemes back then, and still had a lot of developing to do before becoming complete QBs)

Bull on Jaws putting Wilson with RGIII and Luck, and Kaepernick for that matter. Jaws has slightly less derision for Wilson than Prisco does, or did you forget that Jaworski said he would take Nick Foles over Wilson? In his words the choice was "not even close":

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ake-foles-over-wilson-and-its-not-even-close/

Don't act like we have some kind of inferiority complex and then try to rewrite history about how much respect Wilson has gotten. Sure, people are starting to notice him, but he has always lost the pundit battle against RGIII, Luck, Newton, Kaepernick or, yes, even Foles with every idiot with an opinion save for Jon Gruden. Some young QB has always been considered better Wilson every time despite him outplaying them.

 

[Sports Hernia]

As I stated Popeye, Jaworski said he believed Kaep "could be one of the best ever".

And despite your assertions that this about salty Hawks fans to me it's about Jaworski's inability to see that Kaep was and remains, a one read and run QB. Others, including knowledgeable people on these boards, saw it. I find it rather amusing that a guy like him that played in the NFL and is paid to be knowledgeable about the game, didn't see it and therefore state he had a chance to be one of the best ever IF he learned to read defenses or something along those lines.

And IMO people still do talk about it as I saw someone at ESPN (likely on NFL Live) jab him about it just last season on air.

[youtube]IJJLBHJLzC8[/youtube]




[youtube]23IIQx8PSFE[/youtube]

Game, set, and match goes to Hawksfansinceday1. :2thumbs:

 

[Popeyejones]

Game set match on linking to Jaws saying what I said he said while other scoff at him? Y'all are so weird on this one. Read Jaws' article on Kap and the other guys from way back then for the other context I provided.

Every fanbase has one, but Wilson really is Hawks' fans' shibboleth.

It's just a bizarro world in which y'all honestly believe with a straight face that people are just "starting to notice" Wilson. (Yes, Maulbert seriously typed that up thread a few hours ago in the middle of arguing that it's unfair to say that some Hawks fans have a blizzare and totally misapplied inferiority complex about Wilson :lol: ).

In any case, there's really nowhere else to go with this line of talk IMO, so feel free to carry without me.

In the topic of the thread though:

1. Don't buy for a second that Kap is doing this as a sneaky way to get out of his contract. He's either an idiot or an evil genius. He can't be both. If anything this makes it harder for the 9ers to cut him, not easier.

2. The transcript of his interview session after this blew up is worth the read. Longest answers he's given in years, and regardless of if you agreement with him or not, or think he's an idiot or not, it's hard to read it and not think that his heart is at least in the right place, and that he recognizes this will likely seriously hurt him in the wallet and reputationally as well.

3. Richard Sherman is still batting 1.000 for me on his takes on social issues.

 

[Laloosh]

Game set match on linking to Jaws saying what I said he said while other scoff at him? Y'all are so weird on this one. Read Jaws' article on Kap and the other guys from way back then for the other context I provided.

Every fanbase has one, but Wilson really is Hawks' fans' shibboleth.

It's just a bizarro world in which y'all honestly believe with a straight face that people are just "starting to notice" Wilson. (Yes, Maulbert seriously typed that up thread a few hours ago in the middle of arguing that it's unfair to say that some Hawks fans have a blizzare and totally misapplied inferiority complex about Wilson [emoji38] ).

In any case, there's really nowhere else to go with this line of talk IMO, so feel free to carry without me.

In the topic of the thread though:

1. Don't buy for a second that Kap is doing this as a sneaky way to get out of his contract. He's either an idiot or an evil genius. He can't be both. If anything this makes it harder for the 9ers to cut him, not easier.

2. The transcript of his interview session after this blew up is worth the read. Longest answers he's given in years, and regardless of if you agreement with him or not, or think he's an idiot or not, it's hard to read it and not think that his heart is at least in the right place, and that he recognizes this will likely seriously hurt him in the wallet and reputationally as well.

3. Richard Sherman is still batting 1.000 for me on his takes on social issues.

Was listening to the Around The NFL podcast for today (Monday) and I thought that their reaction was not much different than mine. Not a stunt and unlike the NBA of years ago, it makes it harder for the team, not easier to get rid of him.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

I'm listening to Doug Gottlieb interview Steve Wyche of NFL Network who was the one who first interviewed Kaep about sitting through the anthem. Both guys made a couple of points that are worth thinking about from a football/49er perspective:


1. Some owners will not sign him because of their perception he disrespected the USA/Police/Military so his options to play elsewhere have shrunk and as such the 9ers options for trading him have shrunk.

2. (and most relevant IMO) the 9ers are really between a rock and hard place here because if they cut him now even if it's strictly for football performance reasons it will look like retaliation for his stance and related actions.

3. To further make matters worse, Chip Kelley was accused of racism by former player LeSean McCoy and this would for sure add fuel to that fire as well.

4. If they keep him on te roster tiul next April 1st, he is guarenteed 14 and some odd million for next season.

I'm never one to quote myself, but this is in line with what you're saying you heard Laloosh. Really was hoping to stir some convo on these points. Niners are between a rock and a hard place here.



Popeye: completely agree with you that his stance is from the heart. Saw the interview and it seemed well thought out and genuine. I no longer feel it was in amy way calculated on his part. And, I also agree he's possibly himself money too.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Game set match on linking to Jaws saying what I said he said while other scoff at him? Y'all are so weird on this one. Read Jaws' article on Kap and the other guys from way back then for the other context I provided.

Every fanbase has one, but Wilson really is Hawks' fans' shibboleth.

It's just a bizarro world in which y'all honestly believe with a straight face that people are just "starting to notice" Wilson. (Yes, Maulbert seriously typed that up thread a few hours ago in the middle of arguing that it's unfair to say that some Hawks fans have a blizzare and totally misapplied inferiority complex about Wilson :lol: ).

In any case, there's really nowhere else to go with this line of talk IMO, so feel free to carry without me.

That's probably a wise move on your part since you are borderline trolling.

 

[mrt144]

He's not wrong about the Wilson inferiority complex thing, I'm one of them. I will not rest until everyone who follows football admits that Luck never has been and never will be his superior in anything beyond height and passing yards, maybe.

 

[Fade]

As I stated Popeye, Jaworski said he believed Kaep "could be one of the best ever".
[youtube]IJJLBHJLzC8[/youtube]
[youtube]23IIQx8PSFE[/youtube]

Game, set, and match goes to Hawksfansinceday1. :2thumbs:

 

[uncle fester]

By the time he gets back up to playing weight/shape, Kaep will be on another team (minus the pressure placed on him from that last contract/useless FO) and will be a steal for an offense looking for either a useful backup or an excuse to dump a so-so starter (see Bills, Jets, Browns, Broncos ).

Also - like it or not - we live in a world where people in brighter spotlights have said way worse (plenty of examples) and the next week it's old news. The 24 hour social machine will always require fresh blood and NFL rosters operate in much the same way.

 

[Popeyejones]

Was listening to the Around The NFL podcast for today (Monday) and I thought that their reaction was not much different than mine. Not a stunt and unlike the NBA of years ago, it makes it harder for the team, not easier to get rid of him.

Yep. I didn't hear it but for the 9ers IN PARTICULAR it's hard to cut him in the wake of this for a few reasons:

1) The 49ers have the second most left-leaning fanbase in the NFL (just a hair behind the Raiders), and far and away the most politically involved left-leaning fanbase in the NFL (Raiders fan are very left on issues, but don't vote). This is all to say that probably more so than any other fanbase in the NFL the 9ers have less fans who disagree with Kaepernick's stance (although they of course might not like the method).

2) Jed York knows this, and Jed York also knows that 9ers fans as of late absolutely despise him and have just been itching for further confirmation that he's the absolute worst. For many of them Kaepernick getting cut in the wake of this goes right into the pile of reasons why 9ers fans want to abandon the team (and that's a mighty long list at this point).

3) Deserved or not, stories from Philadelphia have been swirling for several years now about Chip Kelly's unfair treatment of black players, and namely, the speed with which he dumps immensely talented and outspoken black players. Kaep may not be immensely talented, but cutting the highest paid player on the team (who is black and is currently protesting racial injustice in a VERY public way) is also likely a very hard pill to swallow given Chip's reputation.

The other side of this, however, is that we all already know that Baalke (who actually is the decision maker on this) straight up doesn't give a crap what anybody thinks, probably even to his own detriment. Baalke and Kaep's relationship could also not be more frosty, even before this (just last week Kaep was essentially bad mouthing Baalke to the media).

I think the move is, and will probably be, to just put him on ice a la RGIII last year.

Edit: oh, also, yesterday Kevin Clark had what I think is a really nice and sober short piece that's very free of hot takes on why this type of thing is so rare in the NFL: https://theringer.com/colin-kaepernick- ... .6txqf0kbx

(Note to mods: the piece doesn't get into the politics of any of this, which I've also been avoiding, as rather, it's an attempt to explain why stuff like this doesn't usually happen in the NFL from a birds-eye-view)

 

[Shadowhawk]

I think the move is, and will probably be, to just put him on ice a la RGIII last year.

I think you're right. If memory serves, almost all of his 2016 pay is guaranteed at this point except for around $1 million, and don't the Niners have a fair amount of cap room already? There is the risk of a backlash if they cut him, and you know that some of the talking heads would go straight to the "well, was it REALLY about his play on the field or more about his activism?" like they did with Eugene Monroe (I'm looking at you, Florio.) But they can't risk him getting hurt and paying him next year's salary, too. Plus, there is always a chance (albeit a very slim one) that some team may lose a quarterback and might be willing to flip SF a 7th round pick for him if he agrees to restructure his deal. Put him behind Gabbert and Driskell, let him sit for a year until the headlines go away, and then cut him.

 

[Laloosh]

^^ I doubt he accepts a trade for less pay.

 

[Popeyejones]

Yep, Shadow. You're spot on about his salary, and about the 9ers having more cap room than they know what to do with this year (what happens when you're smart enough to never try to "win" free agency, but have also drafted really poorly for a stretch and don't have your own guys who are worth coin on a second deal).

And totally agree with Laloosh, too. If he was willing to take less pay right now he could be the starting QB on the Super Bowl champs, but he wasn't. The only "out" on this if he's cut or traded would be taking a one year deal, as the difference between that salary and his current one would be offset by the 9ers.

TBH the whole Broncos thing was a perfect example of the pitfalls of Baalke's moral roboticism. Kap wouldn't take a pay-cut to be traded to the Broncos, and Baalke said that he wasn't going to pay to off-set Kaepernick's salary for another team (the compensation was all worked out, and this was the final proposal to make it work).

In a vacuum that makes a whole ton of sense, but back out here in the real world, it's a hardline stance that basically amounts to cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[NINEster]

He's not wrong about the Wilson inferiority complex thing, I'm one of them. I will not rest until everyone who follows football admits that Luck never has been and never will be his superior in anything beyond height and passing yards, maybe.

While I may not agree, I do very much appreciate your eternal will to fight the good fight....

It's very rare amongst football fans. :irishdrinkers:

 

[NINEster]

I know some Redskin fans so I'll have to check with them before confirming.....

But I couldn't believe it would be possible that Kap could alienate himself from the Niner fanbase more than RG3 did with the Skin fans.

A week ago? No.

But now with the controversy he's put the 49ers in really tough bind as far as locker room, in game and off field distractions....man. Griffin was just an egomaniac who for the most part was unliked by his teammates and a fair amount of fans but once he got benched didn't contribute anymore problems.

This whole Nessa love triangle and weird Yoko Ono-ish type relationship is a new angle to the whole story but still ultimately reflects poorly on Kap.

 

[Ruminator]

I was a little surprised to hear the 49ers plan to sit Gabbert and play Kaep the entire preseason finale. Maybe the 49ers just want to protect Gabbert's health for when they have him assume the role of the starter this season. Whatever the case, having Gabbert and Kaep on the same team, to me, seems a suffocating crowd where one really needs to be let go for the sake of breathing room. I would be surprised if both remain 49ers past the midpoint of this season, but Kaep seems the logical see-ya-later choice.