Ken Norton has to go

[hawks85]

I have to vent. Norton is such a garbage DC. We have to try someone else. 2 weeks in a row where we get roasted, and I'm sick and tired of it. When a Safety is your leading Sacker your Defense has major issues. No F'ing pressure at all. I'm not even gonna blame the players for this. Norton has a track record of being absolutely terrible as a DC. It was the same way in Oakland as well. Bottom of the barrel in every defensive category. Norton has to go plain and simple. If Adams wasn't on this team we would be 0-2.

 

[Jerhawk]

I think the players on the d line are more to blame than Norton but I see where you're coming from.

 

[NJlargent]

Our Dline is a much bigger problem but Norton definitely does not help.

 

[hawks85]

Norton is the cable of the defense. There I said it.

 

[FloridaSeahawk18]

We'll probably have Dan Quinn as an assistant at some point this season based on how the Falcons are doing.

 

[jamescasey1124]

Wrong guys. Players and assistant coaches do as told. They need to put the players in a better position to be successful. Instead they are content with being mediocre on d while the offense is finally turned on.
Until proven otherwise...I will save norton...if someone can prove to me he is making all and absolute calls in this defense...including how he coaches at all levels of the defense(line,lbs,dbs)...he stays. I cant think of any other reason why our d is now handcuffed in play calling like our offense was for years. It's just crazy we cant have both good d and o. It's like one or the other even though we have the talent to steam roll teams.

 

[jamescasey1124]

Put players in position to be successful meaning...

How many times does Bobby have to watch Edelman run through his zone for a completion before they realize it's not effective for this defense?

 

[hawks85]

Wrong guys. Players and assistant coaches do as told. They need to put the players in a better position to be successful. Instead they are content with being mediocre on d while the offense is finally turned on.
Until proven otherwise...I will save norton...if someone can prove to me he is making all and absolute calls in this defense...including how he coaches at all levels of the defense(line,lbs,dbs)...he stays. I cant think of any other reason why our d is now handcuffed in play calling like our offense was for years. It's just crazy we cant have both good d and o. It's like one or the other even though we have the talent to steam roll teams.

Do realize we got roasted by Cam F'ing Newton. The dude looks like Gumby when throwing the ball. Yeah that guy, he burned our entire secondary, and Cam Cam is a horrible QB. Cam had SO MUCH TIME IN THE POCKET!!! no pressure at all....THATS WHY WE GOT ROASTED!!!!!!! and no one will change my mind. NORTON HAS TO GO!!!!

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Wrong guys. Players and assistant coaches do as told. They need to put the players in a better position to be successful. Instead they are content with being mediocre on d while the offense is finally turned on.
Until proven otherwise...I will save norton...if someone can prove to me he is making all and absolute calls in this defense...including how he coaches at all levels of the defense(line,lbs,dbs)...he stays. I cant think of any other reason why our d is now handcuffed in play calling like our offense was for years. It's just crazy we cant have both good d and o. It's like one or the other even though we have the talent to steam roll teams.

Do realize we got roasted by Cam F'ing Newton. The dude looks like Gumby when throwing the ball. Yeah that guy, he burned our entire secondary, and Cam Cam is a horrible QB. Cam had SO MUCH TIME IN THE POCKET!!! no pressure at all....THATS WHY WE GOT ROASTED!!!!!!! and no one will change my mind. NORTON HAS TO GO!!!!

Can you give any schematic examples of how Norton failed today?

 

[hawks85]

Wrong guys. Players and assistant coaches do as told. They need to put the players in a better position to be successful. Instead they are content with being mediocre on d while the offense is finally turned on.
Until proven otherwise...I will save norton...if someone can prove to me he is making all and absolute calls in this defense...including how he coaches at all levels of the defense(line,lbs,dbs)...he stays. I cant think of any other reason why our d is now handcuffed in play calling like our offense was for years. It's just crazy we cant have both good d and o. It's like one or the other even though we have the talent to steam roll teams.

Do realize we got roasted by Cam F'ing Newton. The dude looks like Gumby when throwing the ball. Yeah that guy, he burned our entire secondary, and Cam Cam is a horrible QB. Cam had SO MUCH TIME IN THE POCKET!!! no pressure at all....THATS WHY WE GOT ROASTED!!!!!!! and no one will change my mind. NORTON HAS TO GO!!!!

Can you give any schematic examples of how Norton failed today?

Simple....They need to get more creative on defense. All they are doing is rushing 4 and blitzing Adams most of the time. They need more exotic blitzes packages. Their defense is very predictable and that's why they are getting burned, and are continue to get burned. They are doing the same thing as last year that basic 4-3 defense just with adams as a blitzer

 

[LTH]

They won the game! Norton coached the D good enough to win in the final seconds... the D did there job... the Hawks are 2-0... Norton is not a bad coach...

you know what? Never mind LMAO!!! thats right fire Norton and then go after Pete...

LTH

 

[jamescasey1124]

Wrong guys. Players and assistant coaches do as told. They need to put the players in a better position to be successful. Instead they are content with being mediocre on d while the offense is finally turned on.
Until proven otherwise...I will save norton...if someone can prove to me he is making all and absolute calls in this defense...including how he coaches at all levels of the defense(line,lbs,dbs)...he stays. I cant think of any other reason why our d is now handcuffed in play calling like our offense was for years. It's just crazy we cant have both good d and o. It's like one or the other even though we have the talent to steam roll teams.

Do realize we got roasted by Cam F'ing Newton. The dude looks like Gumby when throwing the ball. Yeah that guy, he burned our entire secondary, and Cam Cam is a horrible QB. Cam had SO MUCH TIME IN THE POCKET!!! no pressure at all....THATS WHY WE GOT ROASTED!!!!!!! and no one will change my mind. NORTON HAS TO GO!!!!

Can you give any schematic examples of how Norton failed today?

Exactly.^^^^

Norton is the face of a defense. He coaches the coach in charge of the position you are calling out. The d line.
If your calling for heads know your shit. Maybe the dline needs a better scheme to play to their strengths knowing they cant get off one on one blocks. Instead they play to entire philosophy. If the dline coach was at all responsible for their poor play....trust me we would see a defense line change quickly to get them to perform differently.

I agree that our dline is not the best, however that's the system their in. If I were coaching...I would move them around and not just keep them in the same position their used to. Example...

Goal line defense we had neiko Thorpe on the field. What for? He some great tackler and capable of bringing down a 260 pound qb after shedding blocks?
They keep personnel for certain situations. Even though we know cam is going to run. He was there just in case pass, but that type of coaching decision is not based on your coordinator or specific position coach. He is there because of pete.

It's easy to place blame, but to figure out who is really responsible seems to evade everyone. All we can do is hope it all turns out. Dont just start calling out names.
Pete is great. But now it's time to coach the coaches on defense. The offense is set. Leave them alone.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Wrong guys. Players and assistant coaches do as told. They need to put the players in a better position to be successful. Instead they are content with being mediocre on d while the offense is finally turned on.
Until proven otherwise...I will save norton...if someone can prove to me he is making all and absolute calls in this defense...including how he coaches at all levels of the defense(line,lbs,dbs)...he stays. I cant think of any other reason why our d is now handcuffed in play calling like our offense was for years. It's just crazy we cant have both good d and o. It's like one or the other even though we have the talent to steam roll teams.

Do realize we got roasted by Cam F'ing Newton. The dude looks like Gumby when throwing the ball. Yeah that guy, he burned our entire secondary, and Cam Cam is a horrible QB. Cam had SO MUCH TIME IN THE POCKET!!! no pressure at all....THATS WHY WE GOT ROASTED!!!!!!! and no one will change my mind. NORTON HAS TO GO!!!!

Can you give any schematic examples of how Norton failed today?

Simple....They need to get more creative on defense. All they are doing is rushing 4 and blitzing Adams most of the time. They need more exotic blitzes packages. Their defense is very predictable and that's why they are getting burned, and are continue to get burned. They are doing the same thing as last year that basic 4-3 defense just with adams as a blitzer

No, they aren't. They're in a ton of nickel this year. And you don't blitz against Belichick, to say nothing of against a running threat like Cam Newton. That gives you the same result.

It isn't Norton's fault that Pete and John completely belly-flopped in regards to getting horses on the DL. That and you had two safeties go down, one to injury and one to a DQ. You can't ignore those as factors.

 

[jamescasey1124]

Do realize we got roasted by Cam F'ing Newton. The dude looks like Gumby when throwing the ball. Yeah that guy, he burned our entire secondary, and Cam Cam is a horrible QB. Cam had SO MUCH TIME IN THE POCKET!!! no pressure at all....THATS WHY WE GOT ROASTED!!!!!!! and no one will change my mind. NORTON HAS TO GO!!!!

Can you give any schematic examples of how Norton failed today?

Simple....They need to get more creative on defense. All they are doing is rushing 4 and blitzing Adams most of the time. They need more exotic blitzes packages. Their defense is very predictable and that's why they are getting burned, and are continue to get burned. They are doing the same thing as last year that basic 4-3 defense just with adams as a blitzer

No, they aren't. They're in a ton of nickel this year. And you don't blitz against Belichick, to say nothing of against a running threat like Cam Newton. That gives you the same result.

It isn't Norton's fault that Pete and John completely belly-flopped in regards to getting horses on the DL. That and you had two safeties go down, one to injury and one to a DQ. You can't ignore those as factors.

They arent in a ton of nickel. Today they started in 43. 4 lineman and 3 lbs. You can figure out how many dbs if 11 on the field at a time. They realized that didnt work and switched to the 335 which they used against the Falcons. Its obvious they think the talent is in the defensive back field because as soon as blair and diggs were gone they replaced them. Not with different defensive scheme, but literally switching players. We started slowing them down with 335. However, the Patriots success came tonight by finding open receivers often. Not just dline pressure. Zone doesnt work if no one can cover man or account for eligible recievers.

Who said you cant blitz belichek? Is that a percieved concept or just hot horse shit? They were literally drilling us when we sat in zone with just four rushing. Tell me another option besides sending blitzes. You have the right idea. Defense needs better scheming period. To play to our strengths, but you cant judge d line just by how they get off a block and sacks. The d needs to learn to adapt and create different looks while maintaining integrity at all times. Which you pointed out.

 

[Threedee]

Norton is the cable of the defense. There I said it.

Cable Guy is the worst OL coach in the history of the game. Norton was at least a capable LB coach. Unless there's another Bradley or Quinn available to Pete, I don't know what to say. This isn't exactly the 2012-2015 roster that he is working with.

That being said, the 3-man rush on third down when Cam was throwing from his end zone did piss me off.

 

[hawks85]

Can you give any schematic examples of how Norton failed today?

Simple....They need to get more creative on defense. All they are doing is rushing 4 and blitzing Adams most of the time. They need more exotic blitzes packages. Their defense is very predictable and that's why they are getting burned, and are continue to get burned. They are doing the same thing as last year that basic 4-3 defense just with adams as a blitzer

No, they aren't. They're in a ton of nickel this year. And you don't blitz against Belichick, to say nothing of against a running threat like Cam Newton. That gives you the same result.

It isn't Norton's fault that Pete and John completely belly-flopped in regards to getting horses on the DL. That and you had two safeties go down, one to injury and one to a DQ. You can't ignore those as factors.

They arent in a ton of nickel. Today they started in 43. 4 lineman and 3 lbs. You can figure out how many dbs if 11 on the field at a time. They realized that didnt work and switched to the 335 which they used against the Falcons. Its obvious they think the talent is in the defensive back field because as soon as blair and diggs were gone they replaced them. Not with different defensive scheme, but literally switching players. We started slowing them down with 335. However, the Patriots success came tonight by finding open receivers often. Not just dline pressure. Zone doesnt work if no one can cover man or account for eligible recievers.

Who said you cant blitz belichek? Is that a percieved concept or just hot horse $h!t? They were literally drilling us when we sat in zone with just four rushing. Tell me another option besides sending blitzes. You have the right idea. Defense needs better scheming period. To play to our strengths, but you cant judge d line just by how they get off a block and sacks. The d needs to learn to adapt and create different looks while maintaining integrity at all times. Which you pointed out.

Yeah I got you, I understand what you are saying. I honestly think a switch to a 3-4 defense wouldn't hurt to try out.

 

[hawks85]

Do realize we got roasted by Cam F'ing Newton. The dude looks like Gumby when throwing the ball. Yeah that guy, he burned our entire secondary, and Cam Cam is a horrible QB. Cam had SO MUCH TIME IN THE POCKET!!! no pressure at all....THATS WHY WE GOT ROASTED!!!!!!! and no one will change my mind. NORTON HAS TO GO!!!!

Can you give any schematic examples of how Norton failed today?

Simple....They need to get more creative on defense. All they are doing is rushing 4 and blitzing Adams most of the time. They need more exotic blitzes packages. Their defense is very predictable and that's why they are getting burned, and are continue to get burned. They are doing the same thing as last year that basic 4-3 defense just with adams as a blitzer

No, they aren't. They're in a ton of nickel this year. And you don't blitz against Belichick, to say nothing of against a running threat like Cam Newton. That gives you the same result.

It isn't Norton's fault that Pete and John completely belly-flopped in regards to getting horses on the DL. That and you had two safeties go down, one to injury and one to a DQ. You can't ignore those as factors.

I understand, but you don't blitz against belichick with Brady. Cam Newton isn't exactly......Tom Brady, with that pin point accuracy. Newton couldn't lace Brady's cleats.

 

[hawks85]

Wrong guys. Players and assistant coaches do as told. They need to put the players in a better position to be successful. Instead they are content with being mediocre on d while the offense is finally turned on.
Until proven otherwise...I will save norton...if someone can prove to me he is making all and absolute calls in this defense...including how he coaches at all levels of the defense(line,lbs,dbs)...he stays. I cant think of any other reason why our d is now handcuffed in play calling like our offense was for years. It's just crazy we cant have both good d and o. It's like one or the other even though we have the talent to steam roll teams.

Do realize we got roasted by Cam F'ing Newton. The dude looks like Gumby when throwing the ball. Yeah that guy, he burned our entire secondary, and Cam Cam is a horrible QB. Cam had SO MUCH TIME IN THE POCKET!!! no pressure at all....THATS WHY WE GOT ROASTED!!!!!!! and no one will change my mind. NORTON HAS TO GO!!!!

Can you give any schematic examples of how Norton failed today?

Exactly.^^^^

Norton is the face of a defense. He coaches the coach in charge of the position you are calling out. The d line.
If your calling for heads know your $h!t. Maybe the dline needs a better scheme to play to their strengths knowing they cant get off one on one blocks. Instead they play to entire philosophy. If the dline coach was at all responsible for their poor play....trust me we would see a defense line change quickly to get them to perform differently.

I agree that our dline is not the best, however that's the system their in. If I were coaching...I would move them around and not just keep them in the same position their used to. Example...

Goal line defense we had neiko Thorpe on the field. What for? He some great tackler and capable of bringing down a 260 pound qb after shedding blocks?
They keep personnel for certain situations. Even though we know cam is going to run. He was there just in case pass, but that type of coaching decision is not based on your coordinator or specific position coach. He is there because of pete.

It's easy to place blame, but to figure out who is really responsible seems to evade everyone. All we can do is hope it all turns out. Dont just start calling out names.
Pete is great. But now it's time to coach the coaches on defense. The offense is set. Leave them alone.

I understand, BUT how was Tom Cable here for? The bottom line is they need to get more creative on Defense. Them continuing to blitz Adams, and teams are going to figure that shit out....then what.

 

[jamescasey1124]

I understand, BUT how was Tom Cable here for? The bottom line is they need to get more creative on Defense. Them continuing to blitz Adams, and teams are going to figure that $h!t out....then what.[/quote]

True story. They have already figured it out. That's why we struggled defensively tonight. The question is...is our team going to keep playing a useless d or produce the next time around. I can only hope. Line up irvin next to mayowa or wags behind reed on a known pass. Blitz the same gaps. Blitz the inside corners for speed. Pinch the two run stuffers so reed and poona show we arent about to let a qb come down the middle. These little switches change a whole frame of thinking for an offense...not just the qb.
Me you on the same page. We just expect better play defensively.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Do realize we got roasted by Cam F'ing Newton. The dude looks like Gumby when throwing the ball. Yeah that guy, he burned our entire secondary, and Cam Cam is a horrible QB. Cam had SO MUCH TIME IN THE POCKET!!! no pressure at all....THATS WHY WE GOT ROASTED!!!!!!! and no one will change my mind. NORTON HAS TO GO!!!!

Can you give any schematic examples of how Norton failed today?

Simple....They need to get more creative on defense. All they are doing is rushing 4 and blitzing Adams most of the time. They need more exotic blitzes packages. Their defense is very predictable and that's why they are getting burned, and are continue to get burned. They are doing the same thing as last year that basic 4-3 defense just with adams as a blitzer

No, they aren't. They're in a ton of nickel this year. And you don't blitz against Belichick, to say nothing of against a running threat like Cam Newton. That gives you the same result.

It isn't Norton's fault that Pete and John completely belly-flopped in regards to getting horses on the DL. That and you had two safeties go down, one to injury and one to a DQ. You can't ignore those as factors.

Not to mention that every thing his said was akin to, he needs get the players to play better. Nothing he said was specific to scheme. Bunch of random defensive football terms.
I applaud you for calling it out. Stuff like that needs to get called out every time it happens. It's the same with the Let Russ cook stuff. Nobody can actually say with any specificity, what that actually means from a play calling perspective.