Let's be honest about Russell Wilson

[Scorpion05]

There has never been a time when Russ was appreciated fully by Seahawks fans and writers:

2012 : Scores 30 TDs. Gets no credit. All Beast mode
2013-2014 : Runs for 800 yards in a season, performs near equal among his peers in TDs/production. Defense gets all the credit.

2015-2020 : Scores 35+ TDs every season (when healthy). Gets nitpicked to death despite the flaws around him.

Very good post and I completely agree.

And I thought that was why we brought Waldron in, to move the pocket for Wilson.
The Rams play action and movement game was so effective I thought that's what we'd see more of here.

Because you're right, Wilson outside the pocket is much more effective than Wilson staying in the pocket. Not saying he can't throw from the pocket, but he is better out of the pocket.

Instead, the offense we've seen is more of the same. Read option, no motion, just let Wilson stand back there and get crushed.

It makes no sense to me whatsoever how the offense we saw week 1 has been scrapped for the same offense from the last 10 years. Blows my mind

These are the plays Wilson wants to run. Carroll, Waldron and Wilson have all said in their press conferences that the full playbook is available to Wilson who can audible to any play. He is likely the impetus that the successful week one offense was dialed back. His hero ball desire is where he is comfortable. It seems kind of suspicious how many times he goes cold in the third quarter only to come alive in the fourth from that perspective.

Apparently all Wilson wants to do, and all he wants to run is deep bombs every snap. Forget that each and every year his passing chart has been different. And he surely doesn’t want to score 4 TDs every game like the Colts game. And there is absolutely ZERO evidence of Pete interfering with the gameplan.

Let’s also ignore that his time to throw is 0.04 seconds slower than Brady this year…2.6 seconds. He’s getting the ball out quickly, but ya know, NARRATIVES! We must..stick…to narratives about Wilson evidence be damned at all costs!

No need to argue any of these points. I can’t wait for Russell Wilson to move on to another team. No more convincing “reasonable” fans that they spend way more time focusing on what he doesn’t do well, than the million things he does do well. He’s taken for granted and no longer appreciated here. Time for a change.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Good points. Be careful what you wish for. Because this team is going to be a crap show when he is gone. Much of this fanbase doesn't deserve that guy, period. Kind of sad.
He's far from a perfect QB, but he's by FAR the best this team has ever had.
But hey, if you like losing, then prepare for a life you wanted w/out Russ. It's not going to end well.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Every player has weaknesses.

Great coaches build their systems to maximize the strengths of their team & best players, while minimizing weaknesses.

It is pretty telling that nearly 10 years in, Pete is still trying to figure out some system to do that for Wilson.

I am betting the moment Wilson leaves, we are going to find him doing things nobody here is used to, because the other coach will build a system around what he does best instead of trying to force a framework and then occasionally letting Russ go outside of the framework when needed.

Betting at least half of these supposed 'weaknesses' of Wilson will magically vanish when he leaves here and everyone will be completely surprised.

Maybe Pete has done a good job of catering the offense to Russell's strengths.

In year 10 Russell's on pace to break most QB records, including wins in the first 10 years of a career and on his way to putting on a gold jacket. QBR, TD's, Passer ratings, completion ratings, and wins. On pace ahead of all other QB's.

So while I'm now firmly in the fire Pete camp, to say he hasn't gotten the most out of Russell is not a logical opinion.

Maybe, just maybe we're seeing the best of Russell. Who is a QB that needs a good defense and a strong run game to take advantage of his great play action, clutch creativity and deep ball passing game.

And until he goes elsewhere or another coaching regime comes in here and totally overhauls the offense, anyone who says different? Pure unadulterated speculation.

Sorry, have to respectfully disagree. You will never see his full potential until he is behind a real offensive line. Then you will see his HOF talent on full display.

I don't even know what this means.

Like 5 all pro's? Cause that doesn't exist, every O-line in the league has problems.

3-4 years ago when Cable was the line coach and we were band aiding and trying to convert D-lineman and basketball players to play O-line? Sure, I'm with you.

But this is a tired and old excuse for Russell now. We don't have the best O-line, but it's good enough for the offense to function and Russell to play well. He still holds the ball too long looking for the big play downfield, and that's the biggest reason he gets hit as much as he does.

Geno in one quarter got the ball out on time more than Russell did the first three quarters combined.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

So now Geno is Joe Montana. Got it..........

 

[Sgt. Largent]

So now Geno is Joe Montana. Got it..........

You are the king of hyperbole Soulfish, don't ever change.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

It's a good point :mrgreen:

 

[LTH]

So now Geno is Joe Montana. Got it..........

lets face it Geno does have a different game than Russ does...That quick passing game (stuff he did in college that we might see now) might suit the Hawks better because of where the D stands right now... I'm not saying Geno is Joe Montana or better than Russ but I am saying that it's the Hawks philosophy to play to a players strength and I see no reason why they would not do that with Geno which might optimize the team as a whole...

am I wrong?


LTH

 

[SoulfishHawk]

As long as they win, I couldn't care less. I just don't have a ton of confidence in the guy. Yet

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It's a good point :mrgreen:

That I think Geno is Joe Montana?

No, it's a terrible point. Inaccurate, exaggerated and lazily passive aggressive.

This forum has a lot of age old narratives that just aren't true, and one of the big ones is OMG Russell would be so amazing on another team.

Take your pick of teams, and Russell would still hold onto the ball and get hit a lot looking to make the big plays downfield, has very little to do with protection and the O-line.

It's ingrained in his football DNA. That's they style of QB he is, for better or worse. Most of the time it's for the better, but that better is diminishing with each and every year his legs and body fail him more and more.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

No, what you said about me. Come on man.

I want Geno to win, period. I just don't have the same confidence that many do. Hopefully I'm wrong. But with this defense, will it matter?
Dear god man, what happened to this site? 24/7 angry, blasting the Hawks at every turn, and you can't even joke around.

 

[BamKam]

It is just time to move on if the price is right is my opinion. Russ has been great and fun to watch, but we have been trying to tailor EVERYTHING to him for the last few seasons and the same stuff happens over and over. Holding onto the ball for 10 seconds to give up a 15-20 yard sack. Bad play clock management. Relying on 60 yard playground football plays to get the offense going. Unable to consistently sustain drives causing to gas the defense with constant 3 and outs. Then we throw the O Line or Offensive Coordinator under the bus (even ones who Russ hand picked).

It was refreshing to watch Geno hit receivers in their routes consistently in the 2 drives we scored. I am NOT saying Geno is better than Russ and if Russ was healthy obviously would want him in but it was a definite eye opener. O Line looked more solid since Russ wasn't spinning out of the pocket after 2 seconds. Receivers looked more consistent. I am just tired of relying on playground football.

 

[LTH]

No, what you said about me. Come on man.

I want Geno to win, period. I just don't have the same confidence that many do. Hopefully I'm wrong. But with this defense, will it matter?
Dear god man, what happened to this site? 24/7 angry, blasting the Hawks at every turn, and you can't even joke around.

I guess we will find out soon enough.. but it just depends on how your perceive it and why one thinks the D is bad... Carroll made the decision to play the young guys that's why he didn't sign KJ... they have to go through growing pains... they would be ok if they had won 1-2 of those game they had a chance to win at the end of the game but it didn't happen but it wasn't because the D didn't put them in position to win the game

. ok that means things might look more bleak than they are... there is just a bit more urgency now the next few games are winnable games per say.. So if they win the next 2 then they are 4-3 and ready for a nice run...things look a little different ... we just need to be patient we have seen this before.. it's going to work out..


LTH

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Let's just get a win on Sunday night. Regardless what it looks like.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

No, what you said about me. Come on man.

I want Geno to win, period. I just don't have the same confidence that many do. Hopefully I'm wrong. But with this defense, will it matter?
Dear god man, what happened to this site? 24/7 angry, blasting the Hawks at every turn, and you can't even joke around.

"So now Geno is Joe Montana, got it." = worst joke in the history of .Net.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Lighten up man. Geezus. My POINT is that he is being crowned by a lot of people as a great QB because of 2 drives.
Sorry to ruin your day :?
Not sure why I even bother coming on here.

 

[LTH]

I thought it was a funny joke... I think your assessment of Geno is accurate until he proves it different..in actuality everything else is just speculation but that's kind of what we do huh? LOL


LTH

 

[John63]

It is just time to move on if the price is right is my opinion. Russ has been great and fun to watch, but we have been trying to tailor EVERYTHING to him for the last few seasons and the same stuff happens over and over. Holding onto the ball for 10 seconds to give up a 15-20 yard sack. Bad play clock management. Relying on 60 yard playground football plays to get the offense going. Unable to consistently sustain drives causing to gas the defense with constant 3 and outs. Then we throw the O Line or Offensive Coordinator under the bus (even ones who Russ hand picked).

It was refreshing to watch Geno hit receivers in their routes consistently in the 2 drives we scored. I am NOT saying Geno is better than Russ and if Russ was healthy obviously would want him in but it was a definite eye opener. O Line looked more solid since Russ wasn't spinning out of the pocket after 2 seconds. Receivers looked more consistent. I am just tired of relying on playground football.

right and the fact the rams went prevent on defense had nothing to do with it at all. As to the rest if you are really watching the games or have been fooling the threads you would know Wilson is not rallying on playground ball all the time only when he has to. You would know Geno tried it a couple of times too when he was flushed. you would know Wilson is hitting wr.


Where did it say the OC was handpicked by Wilson? All Wilson did was say ok.

Geno completed 59% of his passes, Wilson 70% so I think you might want to rewatch.


Also, FYI in one of the threads was the time to throw of all 3 qbs in the rams game, theirs and ours, Gues who had the lowest time to throw? Wilson meaning he was getting rid of the ball the quickest.

It amazes me how people only see or believe what they want.

 

[chris98251]

It is just time to move on if the price is right is my opinion. Russ has been great and fun to watch, but we have been trying to tailor EVERYTHING to him for the last few seasons and the same stuff happens over and over. Holding onto the ball for 10 seconds to give up a 15-20 yard sack. Bad play clock management. Relying on 60 yard playground football plays to get the offense going. Unable to consistently sustain drives causing to gas the defense with constant 3 and outs. Then we throw the O Line or Offensive Coordinator under the bus (even ones who Russ hand picked).

It was refreshing to watch Geno hit receivers in their routes consistently in the 2 drives we scored. I am NOT saying Geno is better than Russ and if Russ was healthy obviously would want him in but it was a definite eye opener. O Line looked more solid since Russ wasn't spinning out of the pocket after 2 seconds. Receivers looked more consistent. I am just tired of relying on playground football.

right and the fact the rams went prevent on defense had nothing to do with it at all. As to the rest if you are really watching the games or have been fooling the threads you would know Wilson is not rallying on playground ball all the time only when he has to. You would know Geno tried it a couple of times too when he was flushed. you would know Wilson is hitting wr.


Where did it say the OC was handpicked by Wilson? All Wilson did was say ok.

Geno completed 59% of his passes, Wilson 70% so I think you might want to rewatch.


Also, FYI in one of the threads was the time to throw of all 3 qbs in the rams game, theirs and ours, Gues who had the lowest time to throw? Wilson meaning he was getting rid of the ball the quickest.

It amazes me how people only see or believe what they want.

John you have been found out.

 

[LTH]

Wilson has now had near 10 years of practice doing those things and playing that way, it should surprise nobody that he is good at it but not good at the other things he normally never was asked or even allowed to do.

That might be more because of Pete than Wilson though. Because so many other players fall into that pattern.

If you study Russell's college career, it looks very similar to what he's doing here in Seattle. i.e., run around, extend plays and make clutch throws downfield.

That's his game, and even in the brief glimpse of Smith running the same Waldron offense we saw it Thursday night. We saw that Geno appeared to have a better command of the offense than Russell did. He made protection calls, and got the ball out on time to DK (more times than Russell did the entire game), TE's, screens.

That's my point. Maybe we're giving Russell too much credit and blaming Pete too much.

Not saying Russell's not a great QB, he is. Obviously. But this unproven narrative that Pete's somehow holding him back IMO is not just true.........or at least just not proven to be true. Because again, you don't know until he's somehow even MORE awesome with another team or HC.

Because you know what? I have a sneaky suspicion wherever Russell goes, or whoever's coaching him, you're not going to notice a drastic difference in how he plays.

Here is the thing.. Football is a game of constant adjustment. Wilson really wants to be the big spectacular play guy... there is nothing wrong with that I love his play only defenses have adjusted to him.. which means that Wilson has to adjust... doesn't mean he can't have the big play it just means for a while he has to take what the D gives him until the scenario burns defenses enough so they have to adjust..

if you listen to Wilson's PC's after Scotty got fired you can plainly hear he wants to be the big play guy and he has enough confidence and talent to force that ball and be successful some times when he shouldn't... especially when you have young guys that he has to satisfy like DK who wants to be great as well.. Dk wants the same thing Wilson wants...

To be great and make the jump into Joe Montana, Payton Manning, Tom Brady territory you have to do what ever it takes to win... not just talk about it and say all the right things.. you have to do it on the field and that's where this injury could be good for him... sitting on the bench gaining perspective and watching someone else success.

if Geno is successful with the quick passing game and the change up from always looking for the long ball first could be really good for the Hawks... could be an eye opener for Wilson... he has to make the choice in his own mind and he has not done that from what I can see because his own ambition is blocking him.. Yes he does throw the check down but he always looks for the big play first rather than moving the chains when its there and finding balance in the passing game...

It's obvious that Carroll is pushing him in that direction being that Carroll wants Wilson to to be better than 70% completion ratio and to give Wilson credit he has that 70% its just situational football at this point.. the success they had throwing the ball in the past means nothing today its whats happening NOW...

I think your point about Blaming Carroll to much and giving Russell to much credit is SPOT on... I don't think a change in teams is the only way to tell if it's on Wilson or not.. I think in this situation competition at QB is what could change things up... the question is, How good id Geno I guess we are going to find out...

EDIT: At this point Wilson can't be happy with a 15-20 230 yard 2 td performance with a win because it's not who he wants to be and that is the difference there is some selfishness there.


LTH

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Yep, and what we're starting to hear out of Russell and his camp is far more "me me me" and far less "team team team."

Russell's still a great QB, a top 5-10 QB. But good teams and good defenses have figured him out, play two high and take the explosive plays away.......because they know Russell doesn't even look for the 5-7 yard quick outs/slants/hooks unless he needs a 1st down.

It's why we're seeing so many frustrating lots of time but no one's open type of scrambles out of Russell now. He needs to take those quick first option short passes and get the run game going to suck those two safeties down.

But he doesn't. Or he won't.