No OL experience/continuity next year...and that's okay?

[mikeak]

Here's what Seattle's 2012 OL would look like today in terms of each player's 2016 cap hit:

Okung: ????
Carpenter: $5.58 million
Unger: $6.2 million
Sweezy: $9.5 million
Giacomini: $5.63 million

Which makes you wonder, is continuity on the OL even possible the way the market works in the NFL these days? We all know it's important, but can it justify such a steep cost?

In reality, teams can afford to keep 1 or 2 players on the OL long term, but the rest of the OL is going to be a revolving door.

So if that is the mindset (not disagreeing) then shouldn't you be drafting OL players relatively high every year? Like a 2nd / 3rd rounder at minimum / year?

If you say I am going to spend the big money on skill players then you need to spend draft capital on the others

 

[SeatownJay]

If we can bring Okung back and get one of the top guards in the 1st or 2nd round, we actually might be upgrading the line over last year.

If no Okung and 2-3 new pieces on the line? Err, it's gonna be like last year where the line's a complete disaster for half a season until Cable coaches them up.

I don't think we need Okung at this point. He'd be nice to have in the mix on a real team friendly deal, but I don't think he'd have a major impact on our line. Of course... I'm comfortable with the prospect of Sowell and Gilliam competing for the start at LT. Webb is also an option, but I see him as a better fit at RT. I think the guy that wins between Sowell and Gilliam will be as good, if not better, than Okung... Less flags and better durability that leads to better continuity and less drive-killers from the LT position. Toss in Conklin or Spriggs in the 1st and Nembot in the 5th or 6th and I think we're looking really good at OT heading into the training camps. Still wouldn't mind seeing us get a deal done with Ted Larsen. Played guard for Cards, but was a Center at NC State when Wilson was there. Between him having experience with Wilson at NC State as a Center and playing with Sowell at Arizona, I think he brings an element of cohesion as a free agent. Drop Connor McGovern in on the action via 3rd round pick and I think this could turn into one of the best lines we've ever had by the end of preseason.

Competing at LT - Gary Gilliam, Bradley Sowell, J'Marcus Webb, (Spriggs or Conklin), Stephane Nembot
Competing at LG - Justin Britt, Mark Glowinski, Kristjan Sokoli, Ted Larsen, Connor McGovern
Competing at C - Patrick Lewis, Drew Nowak, Ted Larsen, Will Pericak, Kristjan Sokoli
Competing at RG - Justin Britt, Mark Glowinski, Kristjan Sokoli, Ted Larsen, Connor McGovern
Competing at RT - Justin Britt, Gary Gilliam, J'Marcus Webb, Bradley Sowell, (Spriggs or Conklin), Connor McGovern, Stephane Nembot

I don't want Webb anywhere near our tackle spots. Keep him at guard where he's not a trainwreck.

 

[titan3131]

If we can bring Okung back and get one of the top guards in the 1st or 2nd round, we actually might be upgrading the line over last year.

If no Okung and 2-3 new pieces on the line? Err, it's gonna be like last year where the line's a complete disaster for half a season until Cable coaches them up.

I don't think we need Okung at this point. He'd be nice to have in the mix on a real team friendly deal, but I don't think he'd have a major impact on our line. Of course... I'm comfortable with the prospect of Sowell and Gilliam competing for the start at LT. Webb is also an option, but I see him as a better fit at RT. I think the guy that wins between Sowell and Gilliam will be as good, if not better, than Okung... Less flags and better durability that leads to better continuity and less drive-killers from the LT position. Toss in Conklin or Spriggs in the 1st and Nembot in the 5th or 6th and I think we're looking really good at OT heading into the training camps. Still wouldn't mind seeing us get a deal done with Ted Larsen. Played guard for Cards, but was a Center at NC State when Wilson was there. Between him having experience with Wilson at NC State as a Center and playing with Sowell at Arizona, I think he brings an element of cohesion as a free agent. Drop Connor McGovern in on the action via 3rd round pick and I think this could turn into one of the best lines we've ever had by the end of preseason.

Competing at LT - Gary Gilliam, Bradley Sowell, J'Marcus Webb, (Spriggs or Conklin), Stephane Nembot
Competing at LG - Justin Britt, Mark Glowinski, Kristjan Sokoli, Ted Larsen, Connor McGovern
Competing at C - Patrick Lewis, Drew Nowak, Ted Larsen, Will Pericak, Kristjan Sokoli
Competing at RG - Justin Britt, Mark Glowinski, Kristjan Sokoli, Ted Larsen, Connor McGovern
Competing at RT - Justin Britt, Gary Gilliam, J'Marcus Webb, Bradley Sowell, (Spriggs or Conklin), Connor McGovern, Stephane Nembot

I don't want Webb anywhere near our tackle spots. Keep him at guard where he's not a trainwreck.

Too bad the word is that he is competing @ RT.

 

[Largent80]

Considering most around here always say the o line will be OK, and after last year's performance, I am delighted that this draft is loaded with offensive lineman, and I think there is no way It can be worse than the pile of Hank the Hawks trotted out last year.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Considering most around here always say the o line will be OK, and after last year's performance, I am delighted that this draft is loaded with offensive lineman, and I think there is no way It can be worse than the pile of Hank the Hawks trotted out last year.

Problem is Rob, will the Hawks actually draft someonbe decent?

 

[firebee]

If we can bring Okung back and get one of the top guards in the 1st or 2nd round, we actually might be upgrading the line over last year.

If no Okung and 2-3 new pieces on the line? Err, it's gonna be like last year where the line's a complete disaster for half a season until Cable coaches them up.

I don't think we need Okung at this point. He'd be nice to have in the mix on a real team friendly deal, but I don't think he'd have a major impact on our line. Of course... I'm comfortable with the prospect of Sowell and Gilliam competing for the start at LT. Webb is also an option, but I see him as a better fit at RT. I think the guy that wins between Sowell and Gilliam will be as good, if not better, than Okung... Less flags and better durability that leads to better continuity and less drive-killers from the LT position. Toss in Conklin or Spriggs in the 1st and Nembot in the 5th or 6th and I think we're looking really good at OT heading into the training camps. Still wouldn't mind seeing us get a deal done with Ted Larsen. Played guard for Cards, but was a Center at NC State when Wilson was there. Between him having experience with Wilson at NC State as a Center and playing with Sowell at Arizona, I think he brings an element of cohesion as a free agent. Drop Connor McGovern in on the action via 3rd round pick and I think this could turn into one of the best lines we've ever had by the end of preseason.

Competing at LT - Gary Gilliam, Bradley Sowell, J'Marcus Webb, (Spriggs or Conklin), Stephane Nembot
Competing at LG - Justin Britt, Mark Glowinski, Kristjan Sokoli, Ted Larsen, Connor McGovern
Competing at C - Patrick Lewis, Drew Nowak, Ted Larsen, Will Pericak, Kristjan Sokoli
Competing at RG - Justin Britt, Mark Glowinski, Kristjan Sokoli, Ted Larsen, Connor McGovern
Competing at RT - Justin Britt, Gary Gilliam, J'Marcus Webb, Bradley Sowell, (Spriggs or Conklin), Connor McGovern, Stephane Nembot

I don't want Webb anywhere near our tackle spots. Keep him at guard where he's not a trainwreck.

Too bad the word is that he is competing @ RT.

That's actually where I project him as the best fit for us. Little too much length for the inside at 6'7".. almost 6'8".
We probably want to avoid erecting towers on the inside. Russell Wilson has to see over the line to find the open guys.

 

[mrt144]

Here's what Seattle's 2012 OL would look like today in terms of each player's 2016 cap hit:

Okung: ????
Carpenter: $5.58 million
Unger: $6.2 million
Sweezy: $9.5 million
Giacomini: $5.63 million

Which makes you wonder, is continuity on the OL even possible the way the market works in the NFL these days? We all know it's important, but can it justify such a steep cost?

In reality, teams can afford to keep 1 or 2 players on the OL long term, but the rest of the OL is going to be a revolving door.

So if that is the mindset (not disagreeing) then shouldn't you be drafting OL players relatively high every year? Like a 2nd / 3rd rounder at minimum / year?

If you say I am going to spend the big money on skill players then you need to spend draft capital on the others

Yes. I made that point months ago.

 

[RussB]

They should have signed carpenter or giacomini a long time ago.

 

[mrt144]

That's actually where I project him as the best fit for us. Little too much length for the inside at 6'7".. almost 6'8".
We probably want to avoid erecting towers on the inside. Russell Wilson has to see over the line to find the open guys.

If they're blocking properly, the vision thing is a non issue. See Drew Brees in NO.

 

[Largent80]

Considering most around here always say the o line will be OK, and after last year's performance, I am delighted that this draft is loaded with offensive lineman, and I think there is no way It can be worse than the pile of Hank the Hawks trotted out last year.

Problem is Rob, will the Hawks actually draft someonbe decent?

This draft has a LOT of good lineman, it would be pretty hard to miss on a pick.

 

[pehawk]

They actually do have alot more continuity heading into this season though, right? Poole, Glow, Soko all redshirted essentially. Each coached up specifically and exclusively to Cable's specifications.

Not to mention Britt and Lem.

 

[pehawk]

They should have signed carpenter or giacomini a long time ago.

I'd have preferred that just to see the tantrums.

 

[Basis4day]

They actually do have alot more continuity heading into this season though, right? Poole, Glow, Soko all redshirted essentially. Each coached up specifically and exclusively to Cable's specifications.

Not to mention Britt and Lem.

Lem is a FA.

I still have hopes for Poole, even though he was cut after camp last year and we still had O-Line issues. Most players need time to develop. We cut Jaye Howard after camp after all his second year. He really came on in KC.

 

[nrayorr]

So far what we've done is a joke. Why not bring in an Evan Mathis, Jahri Evans - guys who actually know how to play the position. As of right now I think it's safe to say our line is going to be brutal again even with the addition of some rooks.

I agree that the "progress" up till now is a joke, but I have to say...I believe that O-Line is a good position group to save cap space and use it on defense. Given that Russell is our QB, it is one place where they can be thrifty.

But last year was ridiculous. I love how people keep clamoring for continuity...do we really want to continue with last year's O-Line? For some bizarre reason, people seem to think that replacing Nowak with Lewis turned around the O-Line...it didn't. When Lewis took over, they went to a much faster release for Russell, and they entered into the easy part of their schedule. When they played teams with a decent front 7 (Rams, Panthers and Vikings), the "new" O-Line looked just as bad as the line did with Nowak.

I would hate for them to bring in old guys that are on the decline...Mathis and Evans would just kick the can down the road for a year while costing us a lot of money. I don't think spending that much money on an aging Guard really makes sense. I wouldn't mind so much trading for Joe Thomas...he's a bit younger than Evans and Mathis...and I feel if they had the #1 LT in the NFL, it would make it 10 times easier to build the rest of the line.

My strategy would be to build the O-Line with REAL O-LINE rookies...the problem is, the FO hasn't done any building the last few drafts, other than Glowinski. Conversion projects take too long...7th rounder projects take too long...drafting 6th rounders in the 2nd round is NEVER a good idea...drafting a UDFA in the 4th round is NEVER a good idea...enough with the projects...what sense does it make even if they succeeded? Why spend 3 years coaching up mediocre linemen, let them play for one year, and then lose them to FA? It's ridiculous. After all the neglect, they need to use their first 2 picks this year on the O-Line. Draft a legit T and LG with picks #26 and #56...then add a C in the 4th round. This draft is the ideal opportunity to do it...best class in a long time for O-Line. They could actually have an above average line for a few years at a great salary. That's all they really need with Wilson in there.

The addition of Sowell and Webb might even end up being a huge boon this year. Both guys have a lot of potential.

:13: This!

I couldn't agree more with this post. One of my greatest concerns is that while the DL to OL projects continues the risk grows higher that injuries can happen to RW no matter how great a scrambler he is. Each year since Russ has been QB his sack numbers have increased with exception to 2014 when it dropped by two. 2012 (33 sacks), 2013 (44), 2014 (42) and 2015 (45) and it takes just one of those to be catastrophic. I want to keep Russ around but with these sack numbers I am very concerned. By comparison Peyton has been sacked 303 times in his 18 year career with the most sacks being 29 in one year, Russ has been sacked 164 times in 4 years which is slightly more than half of Peyton. If this continues like this Russ will be worn out in 7-8 years.

COME ON FO AND DRAFT FOR OUR O-LINE AND FOR RUSS!!!

 

[Hawks46]

Here's what Seattle's 2012 OL would look like today in terms of each player's 2016 cap hit:

Okung: ????
Carpenter: $5.58 million
Unger: $6.2 million
Sweezy: $9.5 million
Giacomini: $5.63 million

Which makes you wonder, is continuity on the OL even possible the way the market works in the NFL these days? We all know it's important, but can it justify such a steep cost?

In reality, teams can afford to keep 1 or 2 players on the OL long term, but the rest of the OL is going to be a revolving door.

Funny, but the first thing I thought of when I read your post was "Giacomini at 5.6 million isn't all that offensive to me". Especially after seeing the line last year.

You bring up good points though. It's not just us that loses OL players, it's not just us that rotates guys through the OL. It's not just us that misses on draft picks. It also brings up another valid point:

With all this turn over league wide with the OL, it actually valides the LA Rams/Carolina Panthers scheme, where they spend big on the interior DL to disrupt the opponent's offense and gut the interior OL's of the league.

 

[pehawk]

They actually do have alot more continuity heading into this season though, right? Poole, Glow, Soko all redshirted essentially. Each coached up specifically and exclusively to Cable's specifications.

Not to mention Britt and Lem.

Lem is a FA.

I still have hopes for Poole, even though he was cut after camp last year and we still had O-Line issues. Most players need time to develop. We cut Jaye Howard after camp after all his second year. He really came on in KC.

Good catch, I meant Lewis.

 

[King Dog]

I like our plan better than the Cards. We're bringing in beasts like Sowell and Webb while they're bringing in guys like Smith and Mathis.

 

[pehawk]

Has this regime had a line that's matured together like this core group? I don't think so.

That gives me hope.

 

[jammerhawk]

You have to start somewhere and these moves are a new beginning to add bodies to the pile.

Until the right group is here the continuity will have to just wait. Having a basically competent OLine is is the initial goal with becoming a solid dominant force the end goal. Let's wait and see.

 

[olyfan63]

Here's what Seattle's 2012 OL would look like today in terms of each player's 2016 cap hit:

Okung: ????
Carpenter: $5.58 million
Unger: $6.2 million
Sweezy: $9.5 million
Giacomini: $5.63 million

Which makes you wonder, is continuity on the OL even possible the way the market works in the NFL these days? We all know it's important, but can it justify such a steep cost?

In reality, teams can afford to keep 1 or 2 players on the OL long term, but the rest of the OL is going to be a revolving door.

Okung $5/8M

Wow... $30M of Cap would be tied up in OL. Would be hard to be competitive in other position groups with this much tied up. We'll probably be under $10M in OL Cap with the final group.

That's the formula--save $$ on the OL, let Cable coach up projects, and spend the savings mostly on D, or on proven, sets-the-example Seahawk Free Agent retention, the Sherman, Wilson, Wagner, KJ, and such.
Similar strategy at WR; we might be watching Baldwin's final season as a 'Hawk. I hope not...