Pete Carrol's contribution

[HawkerD]

The only undisputable fact is that Pete Carrol has presided over the best run in Seahawk history. His contribution to that result is very much up for interpretation.

the 2012 and 2013 drafts and UDFA signing produced a cadre of talent that would be difficult to duplicate. The 2013 & 2014 Defenses were generationally unique. Combined with a young QB who had skills will beyond what the NFL had seen in a while, the team as a whole was able to play a style football that proved difficult to compete with.

Undoubtedly Pete Carrol had something to do with assembling that group of talent. The schemes that he oversaw were in harmony with that talent and the team excelled, playing in back to back super bowls.

All that said, it has become obvious to me that the success the team has had since that last superbowl has primarily been due to Russ's ability to will the team to wins that seemed improbable. The Offensive and Defensive schemes have not evolved to keep pace with the changing talent level or other teams adapting to what the hawks were doing.

Todays game was emblematic. Many of the explosive plays and other positive yardage plays occur not on the designed playcall, but rather when things break down and Russ somehow makes something happen. The defensive scheme of keeping everything in front doesn't work when the talent is what it is. It is rare to see a pass broken up or a big hit separating player and ball. Missed tackles by corners and safeties allow too many Yards After Catch.

Yet game after game there doesn't appear to be an adjustment to the style of play. I will say that there has been an effort to call plays that have Russ getting rid of the ball early however the plays are ineffective. Throwing the ball out to the WR along the LOS with out blockers is not a great play design.

With out droning on, In my opinion, the game is passing Pete by. I am not too concerned about who comes in next. I know JS can find a highly qualified candidate and as long as Russ is the QB the Hawks will have a chance. A top tier QB is a much rarer commodity than a good HC. QB's make HC's look good! I doubt PC is on the hot seat but I feel that unless he changes his ways the Hawks will be stuck in this early playoff round exit limbo. And the only reason they are that good is due to Russel Wilson's uncanny ability to make something from nothing.

 

[Tusc2000]

Many of the explosive plays and other positive yardage plays occur not on the designed playcall, but rather when things break down and Russ somehow makes something happen. .

So what. That just describes most of the past 7 years.

 

[bevellisthedevil]

Very well written opinion. I agree wholeheartedly. Obviously, Pete's coaching philosophy works very well with young extremely talented players. However, he can not take a good team and make them great. If Pete does not have a dominate defense, his style of play will put the Hawks in a hole or keep poor teams in it. The seahawks can not blow people out because he plays it safe which is maddening with Wilson as the QB.

 

[getnasty]

Stack Pete up agaisnt anyone not named Belichick and i think he fairs just fine. I wouldn't call him a great in game coach but people love to play for him and he finds a way to win more games then he loses. You could hire a new coach tomorrow and i'm willing to beat this team would be worse off.

 

[zchurch74]

I’d take the coach on the opposing side today over Pete any day. I’d take Sean McVay over Pete. Andy Reid. I could go on with at least 5 more coaches I’d take over Pete.

 

[getnasty]

I’d take the coach on the opposing side today over Pete any day. I’d take Sean McVay over Pete. Andy Reid. I could go on with at least 5 more coaches I’d take over Pete.

I'm sure you can but that doesn't make you right. Tell who in the last 10 years has been the most successful out of the guys you named?

 

[mikeak]

I’d take the coach on the opposing side today over Pete any day. I’d take Sean McVay over Pete. Andy Reid. I could go on with at least 5 more coaches I’d take over Pete.

I'm sure you can but that doesn't make you right. Tell who in the last 10 years has been the most successful out of the guys you named?

I would define the most successful as getting the most out of the least or at least getting the most out of your players.

I don't think that is PC. He had RW, Lynch and the LOB. After that sure the team has been consistent but not very close to winning it all for years

With all that said this team gives me way more hope than the last two. I still think we have huge upside and potential

 

[Fade]

Sean Payton coached circles around him today. Pete looked overwhelmed.

Now give Payton -> Wilson, and Pete -> Bridgewater. And Payton the home field advantage. LOL.

Pete is slippin', it might be just his classic early season rut he always goes through. I still have them going 11-5, but I don't know, maybe this season it just goes this way throughout this time. And Wilson heroics are not enough to bale him out. It's bound to happen eventually, grandfather time catches up to everybody. It's still early though, Pete has a history of this, and then he has his teams humming by November.

We won't know for sure though until then, but definitely worth monitoring, given his age, and this performance was especially bad.

 

[getnasty]

I’d take the coach on the opposing side today over Pete any day. I’d take Sean McVay over Pete. Andy Reid. I could go on with at least 5 more coaches I’d take over Pete.

I'm sure you can but that doesn't make you right. Tell who in the last 10 years has been the most successful out of the guys you named?

I would define the most successful as getting the most out of the least or at least getting the most out of your players.

I don't think that is PC. He had RW, Lynch and the LOB. After that sure the team has been consistent but not very close to winning it all for years

With all that said this team gives me way more hope than the last two. I still think we have huge upside and potential

Part of being a coach is developing those guys. You think Richard Sherman ends up being as good as he was wothout Pete? Kam? Brandon Browner? Etc. Who drafts a short quarterback in the 3rd round and starts him over the guy they just signed in free agency as a rookie. That's part of being a coach too. If there's a salary cap all things are equal and it comes down to wins and losses.

 

[WestcoastSteve]

I’d take the coach on the opposing side today over Pete any day. I’d take Sean McVay over Pete. Andy Reid. I could go on with at least 5 more coaches I’d take over Pete.

McVay and Payton I get. Not sure why you would take Reid. It is the zero rings? The numerous playoff failures? The fact he's always been accused of being too conservative until Mahomes came along and started throwing no look passes?

 

[LTH]

Very well written opinion. I agree wholeheartedly. Obviously, Pete's coaching philosophy works very well with young extremely talented players. However, he can not take a good team and make them great. If Pete does not have a dominate defense, his style of play will put the Hawks in a hole or keep poor teams in it. The seahawks can not blow people out because he plays it safe which is maddening with Wilson as the QB.

I think If the Hawks won every game they played this season and played crappy in everyone of those games some of you guys would still be bitching about it... :rumble:

LTH

 

[jammerhawk]

OP, did you watch the game today, really watch?

Game is passing him by? Horsepucky! To me your post is butt sore hyperbole.

Critical errors, fumbles, penalties, and a failure to execute and complete drives is what undid the team today. Nothing the coaches did except trying hard to force a change of momentum caused the L. You could argue the numerous 4th down fails certainly encouraged the Saints, in each case the conversion were possible. The team controlled the TOP 31:33 to the Saints 28:27, 404 yards passing and 515 total yards to half that by the Saints. They ran out of time but were coming back from a > 3 score hole dug by those mistakes, errors, and fumbles. Simply they just got behind and never could catch up. None of onfield mistakes were made by Pete.

It was an ugly L. Stuff happens! Now they are 2-1, and have had net 1 point more scored against them than they have scored in 3 games. In the end they lost the game rather than winning it, which sounds obvious but is a matter of mindset. I was disappointed too.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=401127993
https://nflcdns.nfl.com/liveupdate/game ... mebook.pdf

Last game and the game prior the complainers were bemoaning the run, run, pass supposed mindset. Today, the O couldn't seal the deal more than once at critical moments still winding up with 515 yards. I fail to see how that was on Pete, please advise. The team failed to finish and Pete is big on that, the team let him down. This loss will hurt at the end of the season.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

I’d take the coach on the opposing side today over Pete any day. I’d take Sean McVay over Pete. Andy Reid. I could go on with at least 5 more coaches I’d take over Pete.

McVay and Payton I get. Not sure why you would take Reid. It is the zero rings? The numerous playoff failures? The fact he's always been accused of being too conservative until Mahomes came along and started throwing no look passes?

Mcvay has rings and pete doesn't. Mcvay had a amazing offensive output in super bowl.

 

[jammerhawk]

I’d take the coach on the opposing side today over Pete any day. I’d take Sean McVay over Pete. Andy Reid. I could go on with at least 5 more coaches I’d take over Pete.

McVay and Payton I get. Not sure why you would take Reid. It is the zero rings? The numerous playoff failures? The fact he's always been accused of being too conservative until Mahomes came along and started throwing no look passes?

Mcvay has rings and pete doesn't.

Say what?

 

[Shanegotyou11]

I’d take the coach on the opposing side today over Pete any day. I’d take Sean McVay over Pete. Andy Reid. I could go on with at least 5 more coaches I’d take over Pete.

McVay and Payton I get. Not sure why you would take Reid. It is the zero rings? The numerous playoff failures? The fact he's always been accused of being too conservative until Mahomes came along and started throwing no look passes?

Mcvay has rings and pete doesn't.

Say what?

I mean everyone knows mcvay is a God. He won a chip. Our coach cant and didnt.

 

[jammerhawk]

OP, did you watch the game today, really watch?

Game is passing him by? Horsepucky! To me your post is butt sore hyperbole.

Critical errors, fumbles, penalties, and a failure to execute and complete drives is what undid the team today. Nothing the coaches did except trying hard to force a change of momentum caused the L. You could argue the numerous 4th down fails certainly encouraged the Saints, in each case the conversion were possible. The team controlled the TOP 31:33 to the Saints 28:27, 404 yards passing and 515 total yards to half that by the Saints. They ran out of time but were coming back from a > 3 score hole dug by those mistakes, errors, and fumbles. Simply they just got behind and never could catch up. None of onfield mistakes were made by Pete.

It was an ugly L. Stuff happens! Now they are 2-1, and have had net 1 point more scored against them than they have scored in 3 games. In the end they lost the game rather than winning it, which sounds obvious but is a matter of mindset. I was disappointed too.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=401127993
https://nflcdns.nfl.com/liveupdate/game ... mebook.pdf

Last game and the game prior the complainers were bemoaning the run, run, pass supposed mindset. Today, the O couldn't seal the deal more than once at critical moments still winding up with 515 yards. I fail to see how that was on Pete, please advise. The team failed to finish and Pete is big on that, the team let him down. This loss will hurt at the end of the season.

 

[niveky]

Really, the only thing that I think Pete did wrong today, and it was a big gaffe, was that at the end of the half when Wilson did not call a time out on the field, he should have called one.

 

[chris98251]

The only undisputable fact is that Pete Carrol has presided over the best run in Seahawk history. His contribution to that result is very much up for interpretation.

the 2012 and 2013 drafts and UDFA signing produced a cadre of talent that would be difficult to duplicate. The 2013 & 2014 Defenses were generationally unique. Combined with a young QB who had skills will beyond what the NFL had seen in a while, the team as a whole was able to play a style football that proved difficult to compete with.

Undoubtedly Pete Carrol had something to do with assembling that group of talent. The schemes that he oversaw were in harmony with that talent and the team excelled, playing in back to back super bowls.

All that said, it has become obvious to me that the success the team has had since that last superbowl has primarily been due to Russ's ability to will the team to wins that seemed improbable. The Offensive and Defensive schemes have not evolved to keep pace with the changing talent level or other teams adapting to what the hawks were doing.

Todays game was emblematic. Many of the explosive plays and other positive yardage plays occur not on the designed playcall, but rather when things break down and Russ somehow makes something happen. The defensive scheme of keeping everything in front doesn't work when the talent is what it is. It is rare to see a pass broken up or a big hit separating player and ball. Missed tackles by corners and safeties allow too many Yards After Catch.

Yet game after game there doesn't appear to be an adjustment to the style of play. I will say that there has been an effort to call plays that have Russ getting rid of the ball early however the plays are ineffective. Throwing the ball out to the WR along the LOS with out blockers is not a great play design.

With out droning on, In my opinion, the game is passing Pete by. I am not too concerned about who comes in next. I know JS can find a highly qualified candidate and as long as Russ is the QB the Hawks will have a chance. A top tier QB is a much rarer commodity than a good HC. QB's make HC's look good! I doubt PC is on the hot seat but I feel that unless he changes his ways the Hawks will be stuck in this early playoff round exit limbo. And the only reason they are that good is due to Russel Wilson's uncanny ability to make something from nothing.

You do realize that Pete is John Schneider's boss right?

 

[Spin Doctor]

The only undisputable fact is that Pete Carrol has presided over the best run in Seahawk history. His contribution to that result is very much up for interpretation.

the 2012 and 2013 drafts and UDFA signing produced a cadre of talent that would be difficult to duplicate. The 2013 & 2014 Defenses were generationally unique. Combined with a young QB who had skills will beyond what the NFL had seen in a while, the team as a whole was able to play a style football that proved difficult to compete with.

Undoubtedly Pete Carrol had something to do with assembling that group of talent. The schemes that he oversaw were in harmony with that talent and the team excelled, playing in back to back super bowls.

All that said, it has become obvious to me that the success the team has had since that last superbowl has primarily been due to Russ's ability to will the team to wins that seemed improbable. The Offensive and Defensive schemes have not evolved to keep pace with the changing talent level or other teams adapting to what the hawks were doing.

Todays game was emblematic. Many of the explosive plays and other positive yardage plays occur not on the designed playcall, but rather when things break down and Russ somehow makes something happen. The defensive scheme of keeping everything in front doesn't work when the talent is what it is. It is rare to see a pass broken up or a big hit separating player and ball. Missed tackles by corners and safeties allow too many Yards After Catch.

Yet game after game there doesn't appear to be an adjustment to the style of play. I will say that there has been an effort to call plays that have Russ getting rid of the ball early however the plays are ineffective. Throwing the ball out to the WR along the LOS with out blockers is not a great play design.

With out droning on, In my opinion, the game is passing Pete by. I am not too concerned about who comes in next. I know JS can find a highly qualified candidate and as long as Russ is the QB the Hawks will have a chance. A top tier QB is a much rarer commodity than a good HC. QB's make HC's look good! I doubt PC is on the hot seat but I feel that unless he changes his ways the Hawks will be stuck in this early playoff round exit limbo. And the only reason they are that good is due to Russel Wilson's uncanny ability to make something from nothing.

You do realize that Pete is John Schneider's boss right?

In fact Pete has the final say in every and all transactions. Pete is also the president of the organization I believe.

 

[Spin Doctor]

OP, did you watch the game today, really watch?

Game is passing him by? Horsepucky! To me your post is butt sore hyperbole.

Critical errors, fumbles, penalties, and a failure to execute and complete drives is what undid the team today. Nothing the coaches did except trying hard to force a change of momentum caused the L. You could argue the numerous 4th down fails certainly encouraged the Saints, in each case the conversion were possible. The team controlled the TOP 31:33 to the Saints 28:27, 404 yards passing and 515 total yards to half that by the Saints. They ran out of time but were coming back from a > 3 score hole dug by those mistakes, errors, and fumbles. Simply they just got behind and never could catch up. None of onfield mistakes were made by Pete.

It was an ugly L. Stuff happens! Now they are 2-1, and have had net 1 point more scored against them than they have scored in 3 games. In the end they lost the game rather than winning it, which sounds obvious but is a matter of mindset. I was disappointed too.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=401127993
https://nflcdns.nfl.com/liveupdate/game ... mebook.pdf

Last game and the game prior the complainers were bemoaning the run, run, pass supposed mindset. Today, the O couldn't seal the deal more than once at critical moments still winding up with 515 yards. I fail to see how that was on Pete, please advise. The team failed to finish and Pete is big on that, the team let him down. This loss will hurt at the end of the season.

I think the game has passed him by. I don't think he is a bad HC by any means but I think we're going to be stuck in 9-7, and 10-6 territory with a quick exit from the playoffs under Pete. He has peaked and his best years are behind him.

When Pete Carroll came into the NFL he had a unique idea of how he wanted his defense ran. He put a premium on players that most teams would have just thrown away or relegated to the depths of the depth chart. Big corners whom people thought wouldn't be able to play coverage due to stiff hips. Bigger SS's that weren't traditionally the best in coverage, smaller undersized pass rushers in a 4-3 being used as stand up pass rushers on occasion. He took an unorthodox approach to building his defense, and assembled a squad that most thought would be doomed to failure.

He changed people's views really quickly when he put that unlikely group of players together and assembled what is likely the best defense in modern football, and certainly the best defense and overall team of the 2010s. He quickly showed the world that his method worked. All of the sudden you saw a run on big cornerbacks and safeties, small QB's like Manziel, Mayfield, and Murray being taken high in the NFL draft, etc. His secret weapon, the method he used to assemble his world beater teams now was a blue print many teams were integrating. His secret talent pool all of the sudden wasn't so secret anymore. He took the league by surprise, but alas they adapted and stole some of his techniques for themselves. Now Pete's style is common knowledge in the NFL. Teams have adapted, integrated and found ways to beat Pete.

Is he still a good coach? Yes. He is great at putting together a program and getting the most out of his players. This is where Pete excels as a coach. The guy is good at talent acquisition and really unlocking the potential that others couldn't in his players. The big picture and program building is his forte.

Unfortunately Pete isn't what I would deem as the best X's and O's guy, and his in game coaching at times can be horrendous. He often times has the tendency to hire the wrong guys for the job and stand-by them for far past their expiration date. His initial game plans are what I consider to be some of the worst that I've seen from an NFL team, and he tends to be stubborn in the face of change. Rather than win games he'd rather win his way. He is fixated on his philosophy to the point of it being a detriment in certain situations.

Carroll's in game coaching is also questionable and has always been. Poor game management, offensive plays that don't fit the situation, weird challenges, and a very slow to adapt style.

Carroll is a coach of extremes. He is probably one of the best program managers and motivators in the NFL. He has a ton of weaknesses but he is very good at the big picture and that is what keeps him as an above average coach in the NFL. It really is a shame, if he got the right people to manage his offense and defense (Schottenheimer and Ken Norton JR are below average) and take a more managerial/backseat role I think that he could have Billicheck levels of success. Instead he hires marionette dolls, and yes men. I doubt we will ever sniff another Super Bowl under Pete again, but it is important to note that he still is an above average coach if nothing else but for his ability to manage a program.