Pete is now delusional......

[TwistedHusky]

How is Norton 'proving his worth"?

Just curious.

It is pretty difficult to come back from 'worst there ever was or likely will be'

 

[LTH]

How is Norton 'proving his worth"?

Just curious.

It is pretty difficult to come back from 'worst there ever was or likely will be'

First of all it's not the worst D until the season is over. Norton is in a bad situation player wise... they can't get healthy so going up against a QB like Allen with a banged up secondary is not his fault... the secondary has been banged up all year... So if he play's soft he gets hammered if he blitzes he gets hammered no matter what he does he gets hammered... he has to work through that adversity and coach up the younger guys to fill the void until the starters come back... both he and Carroll need to game plan better, he doesn't have to be perfect but he has to find a way to make the D competitive till the D can find some continuity ... he has half the season to do it in...the pieces are there to have a good enough D for the Hawks to meet their goals... they just need to find a way to stay healthy and they need to coach up the younger guys...this takes time they are still in good position at 6-2 to make a run...

LTH

 

[TwistedHusky]

I respect your optimism LTH.

Don't agree with your assessment but hope you are right.

All I can say is Kris Richard got hammered with injuries, to his best guys, he still kept it together. He wasn't amazing. But considering he lost his best guys AND his defense was expected to hold serve half the game until we bothered to do something on offense - he did a much better job on defense with the injuries than Norton has.

To be the worst ever even at this stage you need to be really struggling. Norton is. We will see what happens next but I don't think he has the capacity to be good or even effective.

I don't think the injuries explain the horrific results. Plenty of teams have been hammered with injuries (ie 49ers, 49ers, 49ers) and they are not literally the worst to ever play on any NFL field. (Even more odd considering the 49ers are getting so little help from their offense.)

But let's hope you are correct. That would be the best outcome for any Seahawk fan.

Just don't see it happening.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Delusional? No.

Stubborn? Yes. Shouldn't take until the Bill's final drive before the half to stop playing soft zone allowing Allen to have the best half in his career.

But blitzing and leaving your injured and terrible corners on an island didn't work much better.

You've finally got Adams back, and your new DE in Dunlop, someone that can finally provide the pressure you've desperately needed, and you just had the best defensive performance of the year unleashing Bobby and playing tough press defense...........................and you do what? Go back to soft zone.

One of the worst gameplans and adjustments of Pete's tenure here. Maybe THE worst.

 

[PNW]

The people who are delusional are those terrible reporters who ask the dumbest questions every week. Please ask the man something of substance. Like Pete, your defense is giving up historical numbers against them in the passing game this year. Every week we hear "we need to get better" but you aren't getting better. Do there need to be changes in your coaching staff, or scheme? Are the Seahawks just going to have to rely on offense this year because you don't have the talent on your team to fix the Defense?

They are more interested in being "buddies" with Pete than actually asking relevant questions.

Hahaha I agree! a bunch of LTH and tusc2000 minded reporters out here :lol: too bad we don’t have brutally honest reporters like the East Coast media has in times like this. To be clear I do feel extremely lucky to be 6-2 with this god awful defense, personally I just don’t have high playoff expectations for us later on this year. Yes it could be worse, we certainly could easily be 0-8 with this defense if it wasn’t for Dangeruss. I guess I’m just crazy wanting another SB :snack:

The truth is you don't understand what is happening you don't understand the process...Yes the D has obstacles to overcome but part of the fun of the season is watching how they overcome those obstacles... the season is the platt form to get better and yeah the D has not overcome their issues quite yet and frankly it might be a few more weeks... they need to get healthy and the starters need to play together creating some continuity...

So if your only point is they need to fire Norton and the D sucks, everybody can see that the D has issues... everybody knows that... your not telling us anything that a kid in 6th grade can't figure out...

if you think firing Norton is the answer to solving the D issues your wrong...even Holmgren said it's not Norton he said that on KJR...

People in general have to work through adversity... people dont become great just all of a sudden... they become great by working through adversity by working hard and focusing on their craft...

Now it might turn out that Norton doesn't rise to the occasion but right now he is proving his worth... it might turn out that this team can't overcome the injuries and don't reach their goal...then you can be proud that you pointed it out for everybody to see and pat yourself on the back in the face of your negativity...

There are those of us who choose to see the positive and enjoy our 6-2 season...

So in the case that the hawks meet their goals are you going to be a bandwagon fan? cause i'm going to say get off the wagon buddy LMAO!!


LTH

To be clear I’ve been defending Norton for most of the year I’m not even necessarily saying fire him now, I feel like we know the real issue, Pete’s scheme....I dont know the answer to fix statistically one of the worst defenses ever in the NFL. Maybe firing someone could help, but I dont know what to do, if we keep acting like nothing’s wrong we’re 6-2 and we’ll be fine I think you’re setting yourself up for a huge letdown. No bandwagon fans here, just realistic and logical fans. We won’t blindly ignore historically bad issues and act like all is well. 12-4 or 11-5 with an early playoff exit isn’t what anyone here wants to see again, we all want a SB, you honestly think this defensive scheme can win us a super bowl this year???

 

[TwistedHusky]

Remember what happened with Bevell?

Pete preached accountability like a mantra to the players, but when it came time to hold his own coaches accountable he refused to.

What happened?

Players started to chafe. Eventually we had a mix of player rebelling (both passive aggressively and openly) as well as completely tuning Pete out. Not holding Bevell accountable had real consequences that resulted in loss of talent and games.

We apparently did not learn from this.

You do not think the offensive players that have been dutifully producing will not start to get upset? What about the defensive players that are taking the finger pointing, mockery, blame, and shame for this?

Not holding Norton accountable is going to have significant consequences all year when the players start asking why they are held to these standards but not their coaches.

Norton has to be fired, even if it is not his fault. Because when people are marching with pitchforks and torches you have to offer them either a body to burn or a head on a pike. Somebody has be the one you pin everything to so you can move forward somewhat fresh.

We very close to that point right now. A loss to the Rams, or god forbid the Jets, would do it.

 

[LTH]

They are more interested in being "buddies" with Pete than actually asking relevant questions.

Hahaha I agree! a bunch of LTH and tusc2000 minded reporters out here :lol: too bad we don’t have brutally honest reporters like the East Coast media has in times like this. To be clear I do feel extremely lucky to be 6-2 with this god awful defense, personally I just don’t have high playoff expectations for us later on this year. Yes it could be worse, we certainly could easily be 0-8 with this defense if it wasn’t for Dangeruss. I guess I’m just crazy wanting another SB :snack:

The truth is you don't understand what is happening you don't understand the process...Yes the D has obstacles to overcome but part of the fun of the season is watching how they overcome those obstacles... the season is the platt form to get better and yeah the D has not overcome their issues quite yet and frankly it might be a few more weeks... they need to get healthy and the starters need to play together creating some continuity...

So if your only point is they need to fire Norton and the D sucks, everybody can see that the D has issues... everybody knows that... your not telling us anything that a kid in 6th grade can't figure out...

if you think firing Norton is the answer to solving the D issues your wrong...even Holmgren said it's not Norton he said that on KJR...

People in general have to work through adversity... people dont become great just all of a sudden... they become great by working through adversity by working hard and focusing on their craft...

Now it might turn out that Norton doesn't rise to the occasion but right now he is proving his worth... it might turn out that this team can't overcome the injuries and don't reach their goal...then you can be proud that you pointed it out for everybody to see and pat yourself on the back in the face of your negativity...

There are those of us who choose to see the positive and enjoy our 6-2 season...

So in the case that the hawks meet their goals are you going to be a bandwagon fan? cause i'm going to say get off the wagon buddy LMAO!!


LTH

To be clear I’ve been defending Norton for most of the year I’m not even necessarily saying fire him now, I feel like we know the real issue, Pete’s scheme....I dont know the answer to fix statistically one of the worst defenses ever in the NFL. Maybe firing someone could help, but I dont know what to do, if we keep acting like nothing’s wrong we’re 6-2 and we’ll be fine I think you’re setting yourself up for a huge letdown. No bandwagon fans here, just realistic and logical fans. We won’t blindly ignore historically bad issues and act like all is well. 12-4 or 11-5 with an early playoff exit isn’t what anyone here wants to see again, we all want a SB, you honestly think this defensive scheme can win us a super bowl this year???

I think this D does not have to be lights out... I think the offense is so good that the D has to hold teams (I didn't look it it up but....) to around 24 points a game... but I think the D (if they can get healthy) can be better than that even... So yeah I do think there is that possibility... but I also think if they can't get healthy and gain some continuity that you could be right. But knowing Carroll I don't think he will let that happen... they will find the players or coach up the young guys... every year there is a stinker game this was it... Its emotionally hard for us fans but Pete Carroll is a great football coach. Carroll has a great staff and looking at the past on how they have overcome issues there isn't really a reason to think they won't overcome this issue other than they can't get healthy. A lot of people think health is an excuse as all football teams have to deal with injury, this is true to an extent but this is the biggest problem right now...


LTH

 

[AubHawk71]

Delusional? No.

Stubborn? Yes. Shouldn't take until the Bill's final drive before the half to stop playing soft zone allowing Allen to have the best half in his career.

But blitzing and leaving your injured and terrible corners on an island didn't work much better.

You've finally got Adams back, and your new DE in Dunlop, someone that can finally provide the pressure you've desperately needed, and you just had the best defensive performance of the year unleashing Bobby and playing tough press defense...........................and you do what? Go back to soft zone.

One of the worst gameplans and adjustments of Pete's tenure here. Maybe THE worst.

I agree totally. Stubborn is the key word.

It's annoying to watch the same impotent defense every week, when the problems are super obvious, and when you try to come on here to point it out and maybe , you know, offer some ideas to help fix the issue people call you whiners, you're having a meltdown, etc.In a lack of a good argument you just yell 'You're being hysterical' instead. Many marriages have ended that way.

It's the same stubborn mentality that is PC's achilles heel. Admitting your were wrong is a sign of weakness. Just put your ego aside and fix the problem.

Kenny could have a long and happy and prosperous career in college football, which is where he probably belongs. Ain't no shame in that.

 

[TypeSly]

To let a DC off the hook by saying "This is Pete's defense" is just silly.

Sure, it's Pete's personnel and probably a lot of his game planning. But the defensive schemes and play calling is the DC's job. From what I've seen in the job that's being done by the DC, it's garbage.

 

[Spin Doctor]

How is Norton 'proving his worth"?

Just curious.

It is pretty difficult to come back from 'worst there ever was or likely will be'

First of all it's not the worst D until the season is over. Norton is in a bad situation player wise... they can't get healthy so going up against a QB like Allen with a banged up secondary is not his fault... the secondary has been banged up all year... So if he play's soft he gets hammered if he blitzes he gets hammered no matter what he does he gets hammered... he has to work through that adversity and coach up the younger guys to fill the void until the starters come back... both he and Carroll need to game plan better, he doesn't have to be perfect but he has to find a way to make the D competitive till the D can find some continuity ... he has half the season to do it in...the pieces are there to have a good enough D for the Hawks to meet their goals... they just need to find a way to stay healthy and they need to coach up the younger guys...this takes time they are still in good position at 6-2 to make a run...

LTH

Even with a healthy team we gave up over 400 yards to Newton... Even when we had most of our players we looked attorcious. This has been a long ongoing trend of defensive decline stretching back all the way to 2015, this year is just part of an overarching trend. The Seahawks defense is not good even when healthy, and I think we need to come to terms with that.

 

[Sac]

The problem is with Pete's Cover 3 scheme and his dedication to it. Literally everyone knows how to play against it now and we don't have the HOF caliber players on the back end to make it work. We really should be running a hybrid zone blitz scheme.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Remember what happened with Bevell?

Pete preached accountability like a mantra to the players, but when it came time to hold his own coaches accountable he refused to.

What happened?

Players started to chafe. Eventually we had a mix of player rebelling (both passive aggressively and openly) as well as completely tuning Pete out. Not holding Bevell accountable had real consequences that resulted in loss of talent and games.

We apparently did not learn from this.

You do not think the offensive players that have been dutifully producing will not start to get upset? What about the defensive players that are taking the finger pointing, mockery, blame, and shame for this?

Not holding Norton accountable is going to have significant consequences all year when the players start asking why they are held to these standards but not their coaches.

Norton has to be fired, even if it is not his fault. Because when people are marching with pitchforks and torches you have to offer them either a body to burn or a head on a pike. Somebody has be the one you pin everything to so you can move forward somewhat fresh.

We very close to that point right now. A loss to the Rams, or god forbid the Jets, would do it.

A lot of truth here.

Wouldn’t have said it any different myself!

Totally agree.

 

[Fade]

Pete isn't going to fire anybody. He has Wilson, which is auto-10 wins every year. That is enough for most people that don't know what is going on to be satisfied.

It took missing the playoffs to fire Bevell & Cable.

The Seahawks have to miss the playoffs.

Pete, please prove me wrong and fire Ken Norton ASAP, and bring in Vic Fangio or Mike Zimmer if either of them get fired in the off-season.

 

[Fade]

The problem is with Pete's Cover 3 scheme and his dedication to it. Literally everyone knows how to play against it now and we don't have the HOF caliber players on the back end to make it work. We really should be running a hybrid zone blitz scheme.

They abandoned that scheme in 2019.

They were predominantly a Tampa 2 team in 2019.

This year, it's all over the place.

I would classify them as a clunky zone/offman blitzing team. That is poorly schemed, and coached.


The days of playing press/bail Cover 3 have been long gone.

 

[themunn]

So after every game it's Petespeak, it's Petespeak, don't listen to anything he says.

But now he says something you can jump on so he must obviously be telling the truth and saying that they didn't prepare for it.

More likely, injuries at CB forced our hand, we played Dunbar longer than he should because our backup options came straight off the practice squad and while we thought we could make it work, clearly it didn't. We went behind quick in the first quarter, but really kept the game in hand for next 2 quarters until late in the 3rd when a 3rd down penalty stopped us getting off the field and then DPI penalty gave the Bills an easy walk-in TD. Then an interception 3 plays later put the game out of sight. Instead of getting the ball back with a 7 point deficit to close we are 21 points behind.


I'm pretty certain I can say that we WEREN'T prepared for that passage of play, but I don't think it's got anything to do with coaching. Jamal Adams played great at the LoS but a couple of mental errors in coverage having been out for a few games - hopefully he can clean up. Quinton Dunbar clearly injured, hopefully Shaq Griffin and Ugo Amadi can get back on the field and Dunbar can get healthy.
After 7 games with no pressure and just 12 sacks we managed 7 in one game, so at least one defensive issue looks like it's starting to be resolved. Tre Flowers looked much better out there than he has If we can tighten up the rest of the secondary I don't doubt that we can start to win the game on both sides of the ball.

I also think the fact that we travelled on Friday and announced that 6 players wouldn't make the trip to Buffalo helped the Bills in their gameplanning - usually your inactives are announced a few hours prior to the game and so you can't gameplan for it.

 

[TraderGary]

To let a DC off the hook by saying "This is Pete's defense" is just silly.

Sure, it's Pete's personnel and probably a lot of his game planning. But the defensive schemes and play calling is the DC's job. From what I've seen in the job that's being done by the DC, it's garbage.

No, not in Seattle it's not. Make no mistake about it, these are Pete's schemes, Pete has never given any of his DC's full autonomy to design and run their own schemes. He's a control freak and he believes he's a defensive guru which is laughable. I think that new 5-year extension is a huge mistake and is going to come back to bite us in the ass unless he starts relinquishing some control and let the DC (not Norton) do his job like every other team in the league does.

 

[jammerhawk]

The team has talent, and the players are being well coached individually but the scheme is allowing opponents to savage the team when passing.

Pete needs to take more responsibility way from Norton who appears to be out of ideas, and publicly assume greater control over the D, even if that means Norton has to go. Quite frankly the BS here about Pete presently totally controlling the D is just pure BS and part of the continuing anti-Pete agenda of a few here. 'Prove it!' is what I have to say of their opinions. Bring more to your argument than unfounded opinion. Quinn left b/c he was offered a HC gig not because Pete controlled him. We don't know what happened with Richard but he wanted to be a HC too and didn't find the job. If it is actually so that Pete runs the D then Norton is irrelevant and Pete would have canned him yesterday. The buck does stop with Pete. He is the head coach and if one of the units is significantly underperforming changes has to occur, friendships or not.

Reality is clear that presently the D does suck, and that is very inconsistent with the talent the team has. RCB- Dunbar was the #2 CB in the league last year. LCB- Griffin went to the Pro Bowl however both are on the limp. Adams is a potential generational talent, and Diggs ia very solid FS, but the pass rush has been awful, until Buffalo. It's the pass D, that truly blows, and we grumbled about how little pressure we got until this last game with 7 sacks against a team that only ran 4 times all game. Still the pass D was hopeless against the Bills and has been so all season. It appears to truly be more that the scheme has been figured out, maybe more deceit needs to be employed, maybe the Hawks cover three is finished being effective. Serious change needs to be made. I suspect the head coach is embarrassed by what he saw on Sunday. His D couldn't stop anything. What sucks is that it appears the pieces are present but the plan is failing.

If the return to health of the backend doesn't assist which appears a while away then it's time for a scheme change and fresh eyes on the problem. Coach Richard was a better DC than Norton and was able to prevent a bombs away attack, Norton seems stuck in linebacker mode. The team can stop the run but is a sieve against the pass. The talent isn't being used correctly or the coverage has been solved.

For all the reasons why Russell needed to be allowed to cook the D needs to be placed under different control or minimally the scheme need to change or be better disguised.

The team is 6-2 and has a brilliant QB and only needs to play better defence.

 

[potatohead33]

It's pretty bad when Brock Huard is on the call and asking why it looks like Josh Allen is playing a 7-7 practice game and that it's way too easy. The one third and long they converted late in the game, the receiver on the right side didn't even have a corner lined up against him and proceeded to catch the pass at the LOS and run for another 20+ and a first down. It's so bad.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

The team has talent, and the players are being well coached individually but the scheme is allowing opponents to savage the team when passing.

Pete needs to take more responsibility way from Norton who appears to be out of ideas, and publicly assume greater control over the D, even if that means Norton has to go. Quite frankly the BS here about Pete presently totally controlling the D is just pure BS and part of the continuing anti-Pete agenda of a few here. 'Prove it!' is what I have to say of their opinions. Bring more to your argument than unfounded opinion. Quinn left b/c he was offered a HC gig not because Pete controlled him. We don't know what happened with Richard but he wanted to be a HC too and didn't find the job. If it is actually so that Pete runs the D then Norton is irrelevant and Pete would have canned him yesterday. The buck does stop with Pete. He is the head coach and if one of the units is significantly underperforming changes has to occur, friendships or not.

Reality is clear that presently the D does suck, and that is very inconsistent with the talent the team has. RCB- Dunbar was the #2 CB in the league last year. LCB- Griffin went to the Pro Bowl however both are on the limp. Adams is a potential generational talent, and Diggs ia very solid FS, but the pass rush has been awful, until Buffalo. It's the pass D, that truly blows, and we grumbled about how little pressure we got until this last game with 7 sacks against a team that only ran 4 times all game. Still the pass D was hopeless against the Bills and has been so all season. It appears to truly be more that the scheme has been figured out, maybe more deceit needs to be employed, maybe the Hawks cover three is finished being effective. Serious change needs to be made. I suspect the head coach is embarrassed by what he saw on Sunday. His D couldn't stop anything. What sucks is that it appears the pieces are present but the plan is failing.

If the return to health of the backend doesn't assist which appears a while away then it's time for a scheme change and fresh eyes on the problem. Coach Richard was a better DC than Norton and was able to prevent a bombs away attack, Norton seems stuck in linebacker mode. The team can stop the run but is a sieve against the pass. The talent isn't being used correctly or the coverage has been solved.

For all the reasons why Russell needed to be allowed to cook the D needs to be placed under different control or minimally the scheme need to change or be better disguised.

The team is 6-2 and has a brilliant QB and only needs to play better defence.

Something needs to change and fast.

There is a lot of season left which is good for things to turn around only if Carroll absolutely knows how to adjust and fix things but given his stubbornness, I don’t think he does.

His defense has been copied throughout the NFL circles and have been figured out.

He also does not have the talent to play his system the way he knows how and to make his schemes work.

His defense does not work anymore but since it’s all he knows, he cannot change.

This season will be a waste of Russell’s brilliant offense prowess now as Seattle cannot compete defensively at all with how Carroll runs his defense.

He doesn’t seem to understand that and does not want to accept it.

 

[idahohawk]

Pete has always played tic tac toe. But he's had talent and coordinators to compliment the rah rah.

He no longer has the talent/depth or coordinators. (Norton is a disaster)

So we are left playing Tic Tac Toe with a HoF QB. Congrats and Enjoy Seahawks Fans.

"These guys didn't even try to run the football today. We didn't expect that to happen. We didn't think they would totally abandon the running game. We had a real nice plan for how they were gonna run it. We have to be able to adapt better."

“I don’t recognize that game. We haven’t seen us look like that. It’s a game that I don’t have any place in my brain for it,” said Carroll, whose team dropped to 6-2 on the season. “They (the Bills) made it look easy.”
-Pete Carroll

This is just embarrassing and sad to hear him be so clueless :roll: