Pete sounds done.

[Maelstrom787]

You know it pains me to say it. I make no attempt to hide the fact that I am a huge fan of Pete Carroll. I think he's one of the best coaches to ever live.

But did you hear his presser?

He doesn't sound like he used to. He sounds tired. Not just demoralized, but tired.

Pete has proven me wrong before. A lot. But this doesn't look like a Pete Carroll team right now. There's no grit. There's no rising for the occasion, like they used to on defense. They're not tightening up, they're loosening up when the stage gets bigger. Third down stop needed to keep hope alive? No chance. Goodbye Josh Jacobs. Goodbye random 49ers backup runningback. Enjoy your touchdowns (the Niners player got to the 1, but point stands.)

They're not built in his image. There's an imbalance somewhere. This just doesn't look or feel like his team anymore, and if he is unwilling to take decisive action to reclaim the attitude and energy that his teams are known for, then it's time. I don't want it to end, but it's time. Call Dan Quinn, restore a link to the glory days, and rightfully claim your place as the best coach the Seahawks have ever had - and likely the steward of the best team we'll ever root for in our lifetimes.

Prove me wrong, Pete. Please end this charade the minute the clock hits zero this season. Clean house, at least on D, and grab some players with real chips on their shoulders. Either that... or it's time to hand off the keys.

I say this despite them, yet again, exceeding expectations in a year where they were expected to lose out. It's not the record. It's the vibe.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Apt?

 

[Fade]

Coach of the Year! /jj

So uhh… What happened was.

He hired a guy who had no business being a DC. So predictably he ran into trouble and now Pete is having to carry Hurtt on his back. He's burning the midnight oil. Pete did it to himself.

Judy needs to wake the F up and have Pete become a figure head. And take more off of the old man's plate. If he disagrees, see ya.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Yeah. You got me this time.

Hurtt needs to be canned. Bad.

I can't come off Pete leaving on his terms. But... shit. This is bad.

 

[morgulon1]

Yeah. You got me this time.

Hurtt needs to be canned. Bad.

I can't come off Pete leaving on his terms. But... shit. This is bad.

Yeah , I wonder why they would hire him for the job in the first place . A middle of the road guy with mud on his suit from his college days . Defense line coach of an extremely below average line.
It doesn't make sense

 

[DJ_CJ]

All while the majority on here had this team winning 4 games at most coming in.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Yeah , I wonder why they would hire him for the job in the first place . A middle of the road guy with mud on his suit from his college days . Defense line coach of an extremely below average line.
It doesn't make sense

I got the reasoning behind it.

Usually, a good hint regarding the efficacy of positional coaches is what you can wring out of guys who are JAG type players. With Hurtt, he seemed to do really well with elevating IDL. Guys like Mone, Woods, and Ford. These guys perceptibly went past their expectations. Clark and Reed shined under him and haven't been good since, although both were no longer rookies when Hurtt came into the fold. Their run defense was also usually decent. Even Taylor was developing. These coaches are usually guys who deserve a shot at some point.

He's also definitely charismatic and has gravitas. That's important. Huge guy named Hurtt, seems like a tonesetter.

Not to mention, he had background in the Fangio tree they wanted to move toward to adapt to the modern NFL.

For me, it was easy to get where they were coming from...

Since his promotion, though... yeah. No. It's not good. He's not the dude for the role.

 

[Maelstrom787]

All while the majority on here had this team winning 4 games at most coming in.

Yep. Fully acknowledged this in my OP.

 

[knownone]

Eh, Pete was disappointed. But this is a bit of an overreaction.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Eh, Pete was disappointed. But this is a bit of an overreaction.

Probably the scotch talking, but it's hard not to feel like this is a major crossroads.

 

[knownone]

Probably the scotch talking, but it's hard not to feel like this is a major crossroads.

For sure. From my vantage point, Pete believed his young team would turn the corner and be a contender, and it's becoming increasingly clear that they're a year away.

 

[seabowl]

Norton Jr, Bevell, Cable, now Hurtt. At some point folks it’s not the coordinators especially the D coordinators who are being led by a D head coach.

The defense looks totally lost, tackle like it’s flag football and are just for the most part not good players. This is on Pete and John. I don’t know what the answer is ( I don’t want to fire either of them) but as stated in the past Pete needs to concede control of the D if he indeed controls it, get a PROVEN DC in there, and draft difference makers that fit the scheme!!!!

 

[hgwellz12]

It's not the record. It's the vibe.

1000000%

 

[Fade]

All while the majority on here had this team winning 4 games at most coming in.

About that.

It was contingent upon them playing with just a backup QB, a strong running game, and a defense that wasn't quite there yet, but was going to show the makings of something great in the near future. It was supposed to look like 2011 with Geno being the new TJack.

Instead we got 2021 again, but somehow worse. Geno was doing the little things better than the last QB, AND being productive.

But Pete has been at the stage of needing to be carried by absolutely herculean QB play to win for a while now. I know it may be hard for some to believe around here, but other teams win games all of the time with their QB playing, meh to bad. It's just a rare occurrence in Seattle because they've been flawed for so long.

Just looking at the W-L record is incredibly lazy results based thinking. Ignores all context and misses what is actually important, which is the process.

If the Seahawks had the same exact record as they do now. But the defense was playing great, and they were running the hell out of the football, but Geno was a dud like he was supposed to be, I'd be over the moon right now.

 

[Fade]

Yeah , I wonder why they would hire him for the job in the first place . A middle of the road guy with mud on his suit from his college days . Defense line coach of an extremely below average line.
It doesn't make sense

"Yes" man. No DC worth his salt would choose willingly to be under Pete if they have other options. Not because Pete's a bad guy or anything like that. But because Pete is THE defensive coach of the Seahawks at the end of the day.

Someone like a Fangio wouldn't want Pete in his ear telling him what to do with his defense. Fangio having to hash it out over personnel with Pete for his defense every off-season. It just wouldn't work, unless the owner were to neuter Pete in that area, so the DC isn't getting constant pushback from the HC. But then when you think about it, is that a healthy way to treat the HC?

I think Quinn is the answer. They had a working relationship in the past, and Quinn can help Pete see the light if you will. Get him up to date.

Pete and the defense are one and the same. They are a packaged deal. I have more conviction in this thought more than ever after seeing this season.

Pete always gave his DC's a chance to add their flavor, and there were variances. This time they did some 3-4 stuff, and ran some Fangio 6 on the backend, but principally it was still a Pete defense philosophically. Packaged deal.

 

[keasley45]

I think the part everyone is missing is HOW Pete built one of the best defense of all time and HOW he went about trying to sustain it.

This is not a defense of PC or Hurtt.

He put together players with physical traits to play the position but more importantly, he put together guys based on character and emotion. Grit and determination. And he brought them all up at the same time. They had an intangible uncanny bond that was as much part of their success as anything else. Pete built that defense in his image - a true team of men carried to success as much by their personal bonds and team unity as their xs and os prowess. All you have to do is listen to EVERY single LOB player falk about what made them special - it was the bond first. What they put on the field, 2nd.

In the years that followed, as that core left, Pete tried to maintain that same level of uncanny 'brothers keeper ', less tangible characteristic in sports success, together. He drafted for 'chips on shoulders' , personal stories, hidden determination, and potential that COULD be unleashed in the right circumstances and supporting cast - the same way he did in the beginning. But the mix was never quite the same again. Too much of the initial core was lost. It's why it became important to let Bobby go. The emotional nucleus of the team had to be replaced. The formula was too diluted. But it's also why guys like Dunlap were unceremoniously released. He didn't fit Pete's formula, and he questioned it openly. The problem is that I think that in the same way he let LOB players walk to defend his support of RW as the key ingredient in the formula, he's let other key contributors walk or not even brought in guys that could have been key to making a difference. The formula... the glue is flawed.

So now, in building the defense that Pete wants, he's left with pieces who were bought for the last car, and I think much of what we are seeing is a character fault as much as a schematic one. For a HC who's entire legacy is built on building around intangible bonds as much as schematics, this defense, despite its talent ( and I do think the talent is better than what shows in games for guys like woods, Brooks, Taylor, and few others)... the glue isn't there to bond it all and the formula for that bond needs to change . There have been enough misses in the drafts (not all horrific, but misses in that the profile used was too far based on 'character ', designed to compliment personality and character traits for guys who are now nonlonger here ) that when the chips are down and that character trait that's supposed to be your magic sauce, waivers, there isn't enough physical ability or engrained xs and os identity to support it. They have neither that magical embewment that is Pete's calling card, nor the schematic design to make the defense work.

The whole house has fallen.

I expect 2023 will see significant change on that side if the ball. They need to break it down to its studs schematucaly, from a talent perspective, and create a new identity. One Pete needs to be willing to let go of a bit if it's to succeed - if for no other reason than he's not going to be here to captain the ship 3 years from now.

And to that point, maybe Clint isn't the issue. Maybe he's being made to use parts that while on paper, look like they should work, were built for a different design, both from a character perspective and talent / xs and os perspective.

I think Pete does give his coordinators control. But control on the deck of Pete's boat. The boat that he built that brought us to the promised land has sailed and there isn't enough time for him to retool a new one in the same way he built the first one. Not that it couldn't work if he had the time. But he doesn't. Maybe its time to let someone else build a different boat on defense.

 

[keasley45]

"Yes" man. No DC worth his salt would choose willingly to be under Pete if they have other options. Not because Pete's a bad guy or anything like that. But because Pete is THE defensive coach of the Seahawks at the end of the day.

Someone like a Fangio wouldn't want Pete in his ear telling him what to do with his defense. Fangio having to hash it out over personnel with Pete for his defense every off-season. It just wouldn't work, unless the owner were to neuter Pete in that area, so the DC isn't getting constant pushback from the HC. But then when you think about it, is that a healthy way to treat the HC?

I think Quinn is the answer. They had a working relationship in the past, and Quinn can help Pete see the light if you will. Get him up to date.

Pete and the defense are one and the same. They are a packaged deal. I have more conviction in this thought more than ever after seeing this season.

Pete always gave his DC's a chance to add their flavor, and there were variances. This time they did some 3-4 stuff, and ran some Fangio 6 on the backend, but principally it was still a Pete defense philosophically. Packaged deal.

I don't know about Quinn, but the part about this being Pete's boat that DCs man is right.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Just a theory but I wonder if Pete has had trouble adapting to the newer NFL. The LOB were monsters that were physical and held all the time. They held so much that the refs could have called it practically every play. The NFL today has moved forward and doesnt allow that type of football anymore. I just wonder if Pete is struggling to figure out the newer NFL. I'm probably way off base.

 

[Atradees]

This team is garbage. Time to stop with the ad or remove coordinator bit and start over. I dont want Pete or John making the call on the next draft. I am not interested in anymore genius trade down scenarios to pick players not rated for a reason. Jordan Brooks, Cody Barton and Bruce Irvin cant tackle anyone. This defense is not only slow.....its stupid.

 

[seahawks08]

We will be fine, we need to draft for scheme fit to get the ship right. We don’t have an identity because we have skilled players with the old and new scheme. I just hope Pete sticks with the new scheme and infuse more talent and coaching staff to complement. That’s what Head coaches do and I want the organization to allow him. There is way too much at stake from player and personnel to make any changes to the HC or GM half way through surgery.