Report: AP has been indicted on negligent injury to a child

[Sac]

This whole thing strikes me a little odd considering one of AP's kids was already killed by child abuse. You think he would have learned something.

 

[Thunderhawk]

Reviewing these comments, it still looks like people think this is garden variety spanking gone a bit overboard. It is nothing of the sort. Read this article and look at these pictures:

http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/09/12/exclusive-details-on-adrian-peterson-indictment-charges/

This is child abuse. I am all for parental rights. I can't stand Big Brother's encroachment in private family matters, but in cases like these the state must intervene to protect the child and incarcerate the bully before he can abuse again.

When this story fully breaks, and all the facts come out, I expect it to be a much larger scandal than Ray Rice and it should be.

 

[huskylawyer]

A couple of things:


2 - Anyone who hits a kid with anything more than an open hand on the back of the legs / buttocks is a coward who has lost control.

That's outrageous.

My mother was certainly not a "coward" as her spanking instrument of choice was a ping pong paddle (she used to hang it in the kitchen and I had to go get it from her sometimes lol). She was a single mother (dad was around every other weekend and tough as well, but they were divorced), raised two kids, had very little money (we were on subsidized public school lunch program),and she went to night school while having a job (just retired - good job mom!). Despite the fact that we grew up in rough circumstances, my sister and I both graduated from UW (with no money from parents), and I, a top 5 law school. Oh yea, my sister and I had our OWN APARTMENTS our senior year in high school as my mom thought that when you are 18 years old, you should be on your own.

Now, my mom, a small Asian woman, was INCREDIBLY old school due to how she was raised (she went to a boarding school (Kamehemeha in Hawaii) from grade school until graduation), and my grandfather, a fisherman in Hawaii, was about as "old school" as you can get. I don't agree with everything my mom did, as again, she was very old school and was not compromising to extreme levels. With that said, I'm extremely grateful for how my mom raised me, and her discipline showed my sister and I accountability and independence. I'm glad she used a paddle and refused to let us mouth off, do dangerous things, etc. Many kids I grew up with (Lakewood, aka "Lakehood") either went to jail or amounted to nothing. Despite those surroundings, I amounted to something because I had parents who disciplined us, and harshly at times.

My dad had a funny saying. When I did something and I knew I was going to get spanked, I would start crying. He would say, "What are you crying about? I haven't even hit you yet." LOL. He also had very little tolerance for being a brat or crying over small falls and things like that. He'd say, "quit crying..or I'll give you something to cry about." We basically had a rule that crying for small stuff was off-limits. If you are injured, cry away, but my dad had very little tolerance with being a baby.

I have a five year old daughter, and though I'm not extreme as my parents (e.g., I don't use a paddle or anything), I do spank from time to time. She's well behaved, respectful of adults, a good student and NEVER gets in trouble in Pre-K and now Kindergarten, and hopefully, on her way to success (who knows though lol; kids are so damn unpredictable).

 

[Popeyejones]

Anyone who hits a kid with anything more than an open hand on the back of the legs / buttocks is a coward who has lost control.

Now, my mom, a small Asian woman, was INCREDIBLY old school due to how she was raised

Yep, huge cultural differences about the appropriate way to physically discipline one's kid, and if physical discipline is even appropriate at all.

Said this earlier, but we're basically just targeting people culturally dissimilar from us if we draw our lines around the methods of physical punishment (e.g. a hand, a switch, a belt, a ping pong paddle, etc), rather than the effect of physical punishment (bruising, bleeding, scabbing, etc.).

IMO we're being silly if we're not culturaly relativistic about the method, and we're also being silly if we are culturally relativistic about the effect.

 

[hawk45]

Anyone who hits a kid with anything more than an open hand on the back of the legs / buttocks is a coward who has lost control.

Now, my mom, a small Asian woman, was INCREDIBLY old school due to how she was raised

Yep, huge cultural differences about the appropriate way to physically discipline one's kid, and if physical discipline is even appropriate at all.

Said this earlier, but we're basically just targeting people culturally dissimilar from us if we draw our lines around the methods of physical punishment (e.g. a hand, a switch, a belt, a ping pong paddle, etc), rather than the effect of physical punishment (bruising, bleeding, scabbing, etc.).

IMO we're being silly if we're not culturaly relativistic about the method, and we're also being silly if we are culturally relativistic about the effect.

I agree with this Popeye. While I personally never used more than a hand, I would not be calling for AP to land in jail if the story was just that he used a switch but the kid had some redness on his behind. Switch, belt, whatever, if you don't put anything on it and use it more as a scare tactic, that isn't abuse, it's just scary as crap (and probably effective). I know parents who would make the kid go up and get the belt and put it on the table. Doing that was a way to make sure it never had to be used, or if it was used it was like once, lightly, in a lifetime so the kid bought the threat.

Cuts to the hands and all up and down the kid's backside and scabs where it broke the skin a week after the beating, showing that the kid bled during the beating, indicate a parent who vented their anger within the context of administering discipline in a way they were taught. In other words, a bullcrap excuse for losing it and hurting your kid.

All of this "I was whooped as a kid" to me seems too light for what happened here. I also received that discipline, not always just with a hand, so the eff what. Both I and my parents were shocked by this and disgusted at him, reiterating how sick you feel as a parent whenever you have to discipline your kid even lightly and non-physically. And we obviously believe strongly in physical punishment. We all said if we finished up discipline and our kid was cut and bleeding, we'd A) hand the kid the switch so they could go to town on our faces and B) march into the police station ourselves and ask for the cuffs.

This is not just "on the spectrum" of legitimate discipline. If you stuff leaves in you kid's mouth you have lost your sh** before it's even begun. Has anyone here, ever, ever stuffed anything in their kid's mouth like dirty leaves before a beating?

That never happened during any discipline I ever received. Nor did my parents continue until I was bloody and even had cuts elsewhere like hands (defensive wounds? WTF is that?).

This shouldn't be a sterile conversation about cultural differences in discipline. This should be recognizing that as much as we all differ, we all agree that you can't stuff garbage in a child's mouth and beat them with anything, hand, object, whatever, until they leak blood. And that if AP did so, if he remained calm while doing it he is a psychopath, otherwise he is lying his butt off about his good intentions - he got pissed and took it out on his 4 year old defenseless kid.

 

[Sac]

New Fantasy Football Team Name: Adrian_BeatHisSon.

 

[UK_Seahawk]

A couple of things:


2 - Anyone who hits a kid with anything more than an open hand on the back of the legs / buttocks is a coward who has lost control.

That's outrageous.

My mother was certainly not a "coward" as her spanking instrument of choice was a ping pong paddle (she used to hang it in the kitchen and I had to go get it from her sometimes lol). She was a single mother (dad was around every other weekend and tough as well, but they were divorced), raised two kids, had very little money (we were on subsidized public school lunch program),and she went to night school while having a job (just retired - good job mom!). Despite the fact that we grew up in rough circumstances, my sister and I both graduated from UW (with no money from parents), and I, a top 5 law school. Oh yea, my sister and I had our OWN APARTMENTS our senior year in high school as my mom thought that when you are 18 years old, you should be on your own.

Now, my mom, a small Asian woman, was INCREDIBLY old school due to how she was raised (she went to a boarding school (Kamehemeha in Hawaii) from grade school until graduation), and my grandfather, a fisherman in Hawaii, was about as "old school" as you can get. I don't agree with everything my mom did, as again, she was very old school and was not compromising to extreme levels. With that said, I'm extremely grateful for how my mom raised me, and her discipline showed my sister and I accountability and independence. I'm glad she used a paddle and refused to let us mouth off, do dangerous things, etc. Many kids I grew up with (Lakewood, aka "Lakehood") either went to jail or amounted to nothing. Despite those surroundings, I amounted to something because I had parents who disciplined us, and harshly at times.

My dad had a funny saying. When I did something and I knew I was going to get spanked, I would start crying. He would say, "What are you crying about? I haven't even hit you yet." LOL. He also had very little tolerance for being a brat or crying over small falls and things like that. He'd say, "quit crying..or I'll give you something to cry about." We basically had a rule that crying for small stuff was off-limits. If you are injured, cry away, but my dad had very little tolerance with being a baby.

I have a five year old daughter, and though I'm not extreme as my parents (e.g., I don't use a paddle or anything), I do spank from time to time. She's well behaved, respectful of adults, a good student and NEVER gets in trouble in Pre-K and now Kindergarten, and hopefully, on her way to success (who knows though lol; kids are so damn unpredictable).

I'm afraid that's just another "it didnt do me any harm" excuse. You are mixing up the abuse part with all the other aspects of your mum's discipline. I'd wager if she hadnt hit you with a weapon there wouldnt have been much difference.

Maybe it is a cultural thing but I stand by what I said. What about people who were abused with weapons as kids and have had their lives turned upside down, would you still say it's OK cos my single mum did it?

 

[huskylawyer]

A couple of things:


2 - Anyone who hits a kid with anything more than an open hand on the back of the legs / buttocks is a coward who has lost control.

That's outrageous.

My mother was certainly not a "coward" as her spanking instrument of choice was a ping pong paddle (she used to hang it in the kitchen and I had to go get it from her sometimes lol). She was a single mother (dad was around every other weekend and tough as well, but they were divorced), raised two kids, had very little money (we were on subsidized public school lunch program),and she went to night school while having a job (just retired - good job mom!). Despite the fact that we grew up in rough circumstances, my sister and I both graduated from UW (with no money from parents), and I, a top 5 law school. Oh yea, my sister and I had our OWN APARTMENTS our senior year in high school as my mom thought that when you are 18 years old, you should be on your own.

Now, my mom, a small Asian woman, was INCREDIBLY old school due to how she was raised (she went to a boarding school (Kamehemeha in Hawaii) from grade school until graduation), and my grandfather, a fisherman in Hawaii, was about as "old school" as you can get. I don't agree with everything my mom did, as again, she was very old school and was not compromising to extreme levels. With that said, I'm extremely grateful for how my mom raised me, and her discipline showed my sister and I accountability and independence. I'm glad she used a paddle and refused to let us mouth off, do dangerous things, etc. Many kids I grew up with (Lakewood, aka "Lakehood") either went to jail or amounted to nothing. Despite those surroundings, I amounted to something because I had parents who disciplined us, and harshly at times.

My dad had a funny saying. When I did something and I knew I was going to get spanked, I would start crying. He would say, "What are you crying about? I haven't even hit you yet." LOL. He also had very little tolerance for being a brat or crying over small falls and things like that. He'd say, "quit crying..or I'll give you something to cry about." We basically had a rule that crying for small stuff was off-limits. If you are injured, cry away, but my dad had very little tolerance with being a baby.

I have a five year old daughter, and though I'm not extreme as my parents (e.g., I don't use a paddle or anything), I do spank from time to time. She's well behaved, respectful of adults, a good student and NEVER gets in trouble in Pre-K and now Kindergarten, and hopefully, on her way to success (who knows though lol; kids are so damn unpredictable).

I'm afraid that's just another "it didnt do me any harm" excuse. You are mixing up the abuse part with all the other aspects of your mum's discipline. I'd wager if she hadnt hit you with a weapon there wouldnt have been much difference.

Maybe it is a cultural thing but I stand by what I said. What about people who were abused with weapons as kids and have had their lives turned upside down, would you still say it's OK cos my single mum did it?

Just because bad apples don't know how to use a paddle, belt, whatever doesn't mean ALL people should not use it (which YOU said, i.e., anyone who uses a paddle or something other than a hand is a "coward"). Lot of people die in swimming pools every year, but we don't ban swimming pools.

65% of americans support corporal punishment, and in the deep south, it is allowed in public schools. I imagine that many of them have a ping pong paddle, wooden spoon, what have you, and that doesn't make them "cowards" as you say.

Yes, it could be cultural, but it is also "regional". Visit the home of a rural farmer in Texas with 8 kids who work on the farm, and I guarantee you they aren't all saying, "go in the corner" when one of their kids almost kills themselves or does something wrong.. The implement discipline in a hard way, and that isn't always a bad thing.

I'm just not a fan of people telling other people how to raise their kids. Yes, look out for kids, and obviously go after parents who abuse their kids. But there is a huge slippery slope here, and when one guy says, "don't use a paddle", inevitably, another guy is gonna say, "don't spank at all." No thanks.

 

[kearly]

Yes. People get rather introspective and traditional. I have heard some jacked up humans use the "well, my parents spanked and I turned out fine" . Um, no, no you did not. And if you are fairly well conditioned for society, perhaps it was because you overcame your upbringing, not because it shaped you so well. It is possible to love your parents and simultaneously realize they didn't do great job.

The fall back on how a person was raised is both weak and unprovable.

Different kids react to different kinds of correction. Some kids are so bad you have to send them to boot camp to scare them straight.

Parenting is really tough, and it takes a wide array of parenting options to mold them right. Though of course, Peterson went too far, and probably has an array of one. Nobody is holding him up as an example of good parenting.

My point about narcissism is that I honestly do feel that my generation is more immature and self-infatuated than before (as evidenced by the growing number of John Morgan's of the world, twitter, selfies, and so on. Then you have the huge explosion in school shootings, and now you have young people joining ISIS). Johnny Walker, the American Taliban guy from the early 2000's, was raised upper middle class in California in a highly progressive family. I know that is just one example, but it epitomizes the issue (Laissez-faire parenting) for me.

It is probably a result of parenting that is more hands off. That might be because the parents had a smaller array, or it might be because Mom wasn't staying home anymore, or a lot of things that all add up. I do think the more options a parent has, the better their kids work out.

Dumbasses like Peterson, or child abusers, are a different story.

Of course, you can be a great parent without spanking, the thing that matters is that the child understands consequences and fears them enough to stay inline or to learn from mistakes. Some kids might need a spanking to get that message across, which is why I think we shouldn't be in a hurry to discard it from the parenting toolkit.

 

[TorontoHawk]

So it was a 4 yr old son that was visiting him and a "switch" or small tree branch...this is ridiculous IMO

What scum bag, takes a really big man to beat a four year old. There is no reason to hit a kid at all.

 

[Scottemojo]

Yes. People get rather introspective and traditional. I have heard some jacked up humans use the "well, my parents spanked and I turned out fine" . Um, no, no you did not. And if you are fairly well conditioned for society, perhaps it was because you overcame your upbringing, not because it shaped you so well. It is possible to love your parents and simultaneously realize they didn't do great job.

The fall back on how a person was raised is both weak and unprovable.

Different kids react to different kinds of correction. Some kids are so bad you have to send them to boot camp to scare them straight.

Parenting is really tough, and it takes a wide array of parenting options to mold them right. Though of course, Peterson went too far, and probably has an array of one. Nobody is holding him up as an example of good parenting.

My point about narcissism is that I honestly do feel that my generation is more immature and self-infatuated than before (as evidenced by the growing number of John Morgan's of the world, twitter, selfies, and so on. Then you have the huge explosion in school shootings, and now you have young people joining ISIS). Johnny Walker, the American Taliban guy from the early 2000's, was raised upper middle class in California in a highly progressive family. I know that is just one example, but it epitomizes the issue (Laissez-faire parenting) for me.

It is probably a result of parenting that is more hands off. That might be because the parents had a smaller array, or it might be because Mom wasn't staying home anymore, or a lot of things that all add up. I think think the more options a parent has, the better their kids work out.

Dumbasses like Peterson, or child abusers, are a different story.

Of course, you can be a great parent without spanking, the thing that matters is that the child understands consequences and fears them enough to stay inline or to learn from mistakes. Some kids might need a spanking to get that message across, which is why I think we shouldn't be in a hurry to discard it from the parenting toolkit.

True, every kid is different. And what gets through to one might not get through to another.

Children are remarkably resilient when it comes to less than perfect parenting when the discipline comes from a good place. They identify motive and intent far better than they often get credit for. However, as you point out, they are not that resilient from absentee parenting or guidance free parenting.

I'm not 100 percent opposed to spanking a kid. I just know that for a lot of parents it is not a parenting tool, it is a reaction to being pissed off or embarrassed, and borders on being an automatic reflex. I will never be down with that.

 

[-The Glove-]

A couple of things:


2 - Anyone who hits a kid with anything more than an open hand on the back of the legs / buttocks is a coward who has lost control.

That's outrageous.

My mother was certainly not a "coward" as her spanking instrument of choice was a ping pong paddle (she used to hang it in the kitchen and I had to go get it from her sometimes lol). She was a single mother (dad was around every other weekend and tough as well, but they were divorced), raised two kids, had very little money (we were on subsidized public school lunch program),and she went to night school while having a job (just retired - good job mom!). Despite the fact that we grew up in rough circumstances, my sister and I both graduated from UW (with no money from parents), and I, a top 5 law school. Oh yea, my sister and I had our OWN APARTMENTS our senior year in high school as my mom thought that when you are 18 years old, you should be on your own.

Now, my mom, a small Asian woman, was INCREDIBLY old school due to how she was raised (she went to a boarding school (Kamehemeha in Hawaii) from grade school until graduation), and my grandfather, a fisherman in Hawaii, was about as "old school" as you can get. I don't agree with everything my mom did, as again, she was very old school and was not compromising to extreme levels. With that said, I'm extremely grateful for how my mom raised me, and her discipline showed my sister and I accountability and independence. I'm glad she used a paddle and refused to let us mouth off, do dangerous things, etc. Many kids I grew up with (Lakewood, aka "Lakehood") either went to jail or amounted to nothing. Despite those surroundings, I amounted to something because I had parents who disciplined us, and harshly at times.

My dad had a funny saying. When I did something and I knew I was going to get spanked, I would start crying. He would say, "What are you crying about? I haven't even hit you yet." LOL. He also had very little tolerance for being a brat or crying over small falls and things like that. He'd say, "quit crying..or I'll give you something to cry about." We basically had a rule that crying for small stuff was off-limits. If you are injured, cry away, but my dad had very little tolerance with being a baby.

I have a five year old daughter, and though I'm not extreme as my parents (e.g., I don't use a paddle or anything), I do spank from time to time. She's well behaved, respectful of adults, a good student and NEVER gets in trouble in Pre-K and now Kindergarten, and hopefully, on her way to success (who knows though lol; kids are so damn unpredictable).

Must be an Asian thing because my parents said the exact same things to me. And once I got hit and started crying, they'd yell at me "stop crying or I'll hit you even harder" lol

 

[hawk45]

Excellent post Mojo and that hits the bulls-eye.

For me it was always something to consider if the kid put himself in danger, violated safety considerations pretty blatantly. The idea was to make a very, very large statement, more so than other forms of punishment, that they would remember, to prevent much worse harm down the road. And anger wasn't a part of it, in fact sickness was larger. I think a parent should feel sick to their stomach striking their kid anywhere, for any reason, even in the case of safety where some (not all) parents feel it's warranted.

I'm wired to give parents a lot of autonomy with respect to their practices, including discipline, and judgment on another parent is foreign to me. With all things with kids, though, there are lines. When someone crosses an obvious line, autonomy goes out the window for me, as with this incident.

 

[huskylawyer]

A couple of things:


2 - Anyone who hits a kid with anything more than an open hand on the back of the legs / buttocks is a coward who has lost control.

That's outrageous.

My mother was certainly not a "coward" as her spanking instrument of choice was a ping pong paddle (she used to hang it in the kitchen and I had to go get it from her sometimes lol). She was a single mother (dad was around every other weekend and tough as well, but they were divorced), raised two kids, had very little money (we were on subsidized public school lunch program),and she went to night school while having a job (just retired - good job mom!). Despite the fact that we grew up in rough circumstances, my sister and I both graduated from UW (with no money from parents), and I, a top 5 law school. Oh yea, my sister and I had our OWN APARTMENTS our senior year in high school as my mom thought that when you are 18 years old, you should be on your own.

Now, my mom, a small Asian woman, was INCREDIBLY old school due to how she was raised (she went to a boarding school (Kamehemeha in Hawaii) from grade school until graduation), and my grandfather, a fisherman in Hawaii, was about as "old school" as you can get. I don't agree with everything my mom did, as again, she was very old school and was not compromising to extreme levels. With that said, I'm extremely grateful for how my mom raised me, and her discipline showed my sister and I accountability and independence. I'm glad she used a paddle and refused to let us mouth off, do dangerous things, etc. Many kids I grew up with (Lakewood, aka "Lakehood") either went to jail or amounted to nothing. Despite those surroundings, I amounted to something because I had parents who disciplined us, and harshly at times.

My dad had a funny saying. When I did something and I knew I was going to get spanked, I would start crying. He would say, "What are you crying about? I haven't even hit you yet." LOL. He also had very little tolerance for being a brat or crying over small falls and things like that. He'd say, "quit crying..or I'll give you something to cry about." We basically had a rule that crying for small stuff was off-limits. If you are injured, cry away, but my dad had very little tolerance with being a baby.

I have a five year old daughter, and though I'm not extreme as my parents (e.g., I don't use a paddle or anything), I do spank from time to time. She's well behaved, respectful of adults, a good student and NEVER gets in trouble in Pre-K and now Kindergarten, and hopefully, on her way to success (who knows though lol; kids are so damn unpredictable).

Must be an Asian thing because my parents said the exact same things to me. And once I got hit and started crying, they'd yell at me "stop crying or I'll hit you even harder" lol

He he, yea. The problem for me is I got a "double wammy." Asian mother and black father from Texas who was a Vietnam vet. OUCH.