Ryan Clark: Russell Wilson ‘not an all-time great QB’

[scutterhawk]

Just last week, Clark said that Russ has been carrying the team since the LOB. They just played it on 710.
Hilarious. Make up your mind, son.

Carrying the team to early playoff exits does not equate to being in the conversation with Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Elway, and Montana tho.

This is where I'm at..I gotta add the Iron man on that list ..Favre

Elway made the playoffs 10 times in his 16 year career. Out of the 10 times she failed to get beyond the 1st round 4 times, 2 adn done 3 times. HIs only 2 Sb wins came with a top 5 run game and top 5 defense. His first round and out % was 40%, his playloff making % was 62%

Joe Montana in his 14 year career made the playoffs 11 times and was 1 and done 4 times including 3 years in a row. His first round and out % 37% his making the playoff % 78%

Peyton Manning played 17 years made the playoffs 14 times and was 1 and done 9 times. HIs 1 and done % 64% his making the playoffs was 78%

Brett Fare played 20 years and made the playoffs 12 times and was 1 and done 3 times and 2 and done 6 times. HIs 1 and done was 25%, making playoffs 60%

Wilson had been in the League 10 years and has made the playoffs 8 times and was 1 and done 2 times and 2 and done 4 times. HIs 1 and done is 25% and his making playoffs is 80%

Brady had been in the league for 22 years and made the playoffs 19 times and was1 and done 3 times and 2 and done 4 times. His one and done was 16% his making playoffs was 86%


Seems to me he is right up there with them all.

Now post LOB so 2015-current, 7 years, made playoffs 5 of the 7 and 1 and done 2. 1 and done % 40% and making playoffs 71%

Hmm still right up ther ewith them


So let's summarize with only post LOB for Wilson
1ad=1 and done, MP%=making the playoffs %

Elway
MP% 62%
1ad 40%

Montana
MP5 78%
1ad 37%

Manning
MP% 78%
1ad 64%

Favre
MP% 60%
1ad 25%

Brady
MP% 86%
1ad 16%

Wilson post LOB
MP% 71%
1ad 40%

Hmm seems he is right in there isn't he

PRECISELY, those statistics put him in the TOP 5 P-E-R-I-O-D

 

[John63]

^^
Absolutely , he's top 10 at least , but top 5...not so sure .

No chance he's top 10 all time right now. He's not top 10 in any category that matters when evaluating legacy is he?

Ahh yes all time Passer rating

Passer rating isn't getting you in the door alone

I never said it would I simply replied to you saying he was not top 10 in anything now. Let's remember most of those QBs you are comparing him to were not considered all time in year 10 of their careers either.

 

[OrangeGravy]

No chance he's top 10 all time right now. He's not top 10 in any category that matters when evaluating legacy is he?

Ahh yes all time Passer rating

Passer rating isn't getting you in the door alone

I never said it would I simply replied to you saying he was not top 10 in anything now. Let's remember most of those QBs you are comparing him to were not considered all time in year 19 of their careers either.

I said top 10 in anything that matters to voters.

Year 19? Wtf are you talking about?

 

[John63]

Ahh yes all time Passer rating

Passer rating isn't getting you in the door alone

I never said it would I simply replied to you saying he was not top 10 in anything now. Let's remember most of those QBs you are comparing him to were not considered all time in year 19 of their careers either.

I said top 10 in anything that matters to voters.

Year 19? Wtf are you talking about?

Yeah mistyped on 19 should be 10. As to matters how do you know what matters to the people who vote? U dont.


Fyi also top 10 in td/int ratio.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I'd say he is, but with a caveat, he is more of an Aikman type than a Young, or a Manning, or a Brady. Under the right circumstances he can be dominant -- but he's a type of QB that is frustratingly inconsistent. Despite his stats, it's a huge gamble of which Russ you're going to get from quarter to quarter. Personally, I don't think he's ever been as good as his statistics indicate. I tend to lump him in with guys such as Ben Roethlisberger. His efficiency stats look great, but it doesn't always bear out in games.

Wilson performs best in an offense with a heavy rushing attack that allows him to play off of the play action fake and the deep ball. He's not great as a volume passer, or field general type of QB. That doesn't mean he is a bad QB, it just means, like most players he has some clear limitations that the team needs to work around.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

When he's at his HOF speech, will people STILL deny it? Me thinks they will......
Meh, he has a lot of football left in him. And a lot to prove. I suspect the chip on the shoulder will be huge in 2022.

 

[Spin Doctor]

When he's at his HOF speech, will people STILL deny it? Me thinks they will......
Meh, he has a lot of football left in him. And a lot to prove. I suspect the chip on the shoulder will be huge in 2022.

If he doesn't change his game up, he won't last too much longer at a high level of play. He's at a crucial point in his career that will determine his longevity in the NFL. This has happened to many QB's, some are able to make that switch, others aren't.

Wilson is a bit of a strange player. He has aspects in his game that could be considered among the best all time. I'm talking his deep ball, improvisation, 4th quarter comebacks, etc. He also has areas in his game that are very deficient in. His short accuracy is hit and miss, he really struggles with certain defenses, he isn't great at pre-snap procedural stuff.

He's on the cusp of being an HOF player, or he may even be an HOF player over the duration of his career. That being said, I don't know how his future will shake up based on what I've seen from the last 1.5 years of play. Heck, even in 2019, Wilson had a big slump with the same sorts of struggles. He's always been a boom or bust player, a little bit like Barry Sanders at QB. He'll struggle to move the ball then all of the sudden he'll make a huge splash play that'll open things up.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

All a matter of opinion. He'll be in HOF imo.

 

[TwistedHusky]

It is ironic that I am sitting here defending Wilson.

I was a 'Wilson Hater' because I wanted to trade Wilson, since it did not seem like he would be a good fit for Carroll. At the time we had the LOB, who I wanted to keep, and it made sense to double down on the defense while getting a young QB from the draft at the time.

But even I am not this stupid.

Wilson should be in the hall because Wilson is one of the best in the league (even better than Mahomes, etc) at producing under pressure.

Nobody remembers that play against the Vikings when the snap went skittering backwards, then Wilson runs backwards across the icy ground, picks up the ball with one hand and calmly throws the ball for a completion to save the play? (we might have even scored on that one)

Wilson has some of the most exceptional production under pressure I have ever seen, on any team by any QB, even Jim Kelly (who said he LIKED getting hit) would still occasionally get flustered under pressure. Wilson running for his life, spin, notice a WR broke free and perfectly throw it across his body with absolute accuracy to the receiver.

Most of the QBs in the hall couldn't do that. Wilson did things like this regularly.

Yes, he never was great at reading defenses, or sliding in the pocket, or even manipulating safeties with his eyes. But he won in other ways that were just as effective, sometimes more so - because many defenses focus on moving the QB to reduce accuracy.

The problem with Wilson is the problem with Rodgers, people don't like him. Rodgers because he is self-centered and full of himself. And Wilson because he comes off as fake, and probably is. On the field, he is still in very rare air.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yet people continue to act like he sucks under pressure and make up stuff that he "can't do"

Good post Twisted :irishdrinkers:

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Again, this is a subjective debate because everyone has a different definition of what "all time great" means.

Obviously Clark's definition is more strict and picky than just being in the Hall of Fame, or being a top 25 QB statistically or wins/playoffs/SB's wise when it's all said and done.

 

[morgulon1]

Is Ryan Clark, wrong or right?

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/ryan-clark ... 18667.html

Ryan Clark is a complete douche ******* idiot.

 

[chris98251]

It is ironic that I am sitting here defending Wilson.

I was a 'Wilson Hater' because I wanted to trade Wilson, since it did not seem like he would be a good fit for Carroll. At the time we had the LOB, who I wanted to keep, and it made sense to double down on the defense while getting a young QB from the draft at the time.

But even I am not this stupid.

Wilson should be in the hall because Wilson is one of the best in the league (even better than Mahomes, etc) at producing under pressure.

Nobody remembers that play against the Vikings when the snap went skittering backwards, then Wilson runs backwards across the icy ground, picks up the ball with one hand and calmly throws the ball for a completion to save the play? (we might have even scored on that one)

Wilson has some of the most exceptional production under pressure I have ever seen, on any team by any QB, even Jim Kelly (who said he LIKED getting hit) would still occasionally get flustered under pressure. Wilson running for his life, spin, notice a WR broke free and perfectly throw it across his body with absolute accuracy to the receiver.

Most of the QBs in the hall couldn't do that. Wilson did things like this regularly.

Yes, he never was great at reading defenses, or sliding in the pocket, or even manipulating safeties with his eyes. But he won in other ways that were just as effective, sometimes more so - because many defenses focus on moving the QB to reduce accuracy.

The problem with Wilson is the problem with Rodgers, people don't like him. Rodgers because he is self-centered and full of himself. And Wilson because he comes off as fake, and probably is. On the field, he is still in very rare air.

He needs his nic name back, Dangeruss has not been used in a long time. let Russ cook won't get you in the HOF.

 

[OLYhawks]

A "great" quarterback would have audibled to a run rather than try to take the glory which would have led to a dynasty. Instead, he pissed off core contributors leading to where the Seahawks are now.

 

[Stud]

Meh, Russell is definitely a great QB with amazing stats, but I almost agree with Clark. Once the playoffs start, Wilson seems to be average to just about average. I can only think of 2 games that he's played in the playoffs where he was amazing (2012 Atlanta and 2014 Panthers). Other than that, he hasn't elevated himself. He only won a super bowl and went to a super bowl because of the defense, and hasn't made it past the 2nd round since the LOB dispersed. Hasn't won a league or Super bowl MVP.

Just stating facts.

 

[John63]

Meh, Russell is definitely a great QB with amazing stats, but I almost agree with Clark. Once the playoffs start, Wilson seems to be average to just about average. I can only think of 2 games that he's played in the playoffs where he was amazing (2012 Atlanta and 2014 Panthers). Other than that, he hasn't elevated himself. He only won a super bowl and went to a super bowl because of the defense, and hasn't made it past the 2nd round since the LOB dispersed. Hasn't won a league or Super bowl MVP.

Just stating facts.

Let's look a that, pick Wilson

61% complt
96 pAsser Rating
2.1 td/int

62%
90 Passer rating
2.2 td/int ratio

60% Complt
86 Passer rating
1.46 td/int

54% complt
79 Passer raating
1.28 td/int

62% complt
95 passer rating
2.1 td/int

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Wilson has some of the most exceptional production under pressure I have ever seen, on any team by any QB, even Jim Kelly (who said he LIKED getting hit) would still occasionally get flustered under pressure. Wilson running for his life, spin, notice a WR broke free and perfectly throw it across his body with absolute accuracy to the receiver.

Most of the QBs in the hall couldn't do that. Wilson did things like this regularly.

I understand what you are saying but HOF candidacy doesn’t have “Under Pressure” as a measurable stat.

Like it or not, HOF admission relies a lot on measurable “stats.”

Wilson’s stats are continually growing as far as pass yards, TDs, QBR etc, but if your basis for including Wilson into the Hall is cause he is great with broken plays and scrambling ability, those are immeasurable stats, that probably are not considered as heavily as all other “fantasy” stats.

I’m not saying Wilson is not a HOF but he still needs to pad his stats.

Like it or not, voters do consider league MVP titles, pretty heavily when deciding who is going in as far as QBs go.

Wilson still needs to secure these league MVPs to pad his leverage to getting in.

Not saying he can’t but he still has “stats and accolades” to prove in terms of voters that will decide if he goes in maybe as first ballot.

Currently, Wilson is probably not first ballot worthy.

 

[John63]

First it depends on yoru crieria. 2nd he not done yet so perhaps the correct statement should be he is not an all-time great yet.

That said it's hard to take this guy seriously when just a week or so ago he said the opposite and when he was still playing and played against Wilson he said he was the best player period.

Seems to me this was more about clicks.

 

[Stud]

Meh, Russell is definitely a great QB with amazing stats, but I almost agree with Clark. Once the playoffs start, Wilson seems to be average to just about average. I can only think of 2 games that he's played in the playoffs where he was amazing (2012 Atlanta and 2014 Panthers). Other than that, he hasn't elevated himself. He only won a super bowl and went to a super bowl because of the defense, and hasn't made it past the 2nd round since the LOB dispersed. Hasn't won a league or Super bowl MVP.

Just stating facts.

Let's look a that, pick Wilson

61% complt
96 pAsser Rating
2.1 td/int

62%
90 Passer rating
2.2 td/int ratio

60% Complt
86 Passer rating
1.46 td/int

54% complt
79 Passer raating
1.28 td/int

62% complt
95 passer rating
2.1 td/int

This is completely irrelevant. Again, nobody said Wilson was bad in the playoffs, he's just not great. But if you insist.

"Pick Wilson". OK here you go:

 

[John63]

Meh, Russell is definitely a great QB with amazing stats, but I almost agree with Clark. Once the playoffs start, Wilson seems to be average to just about average. I can only think of 2 games that he's played in the playoffs where he was amazing (2012 Atlanta and 2014 Panthers). Other than that, he hasn't elevated himself. He only won a super bowl and went to a super bowl because of the defense, and hasn't made it past the 2nd round since the LOB dispersed. Hasn't won a league or Super bowl MVP.

Just stating facts.

Let's look a that, pick Wilson

61% complt
96 pAsser Rating
2.1 td/int

62%
90 Passer rating
2.2 td/int ratio

60% Complt
86 Passer rating
1.46 td/int

54% complt
79 Passer raating
1.28 td/int

62% complt
95 passer rating
2.1 td/int

This is completely irrelevant. Again, nobody said Wilson was bad in the playoffs, he's just not great. But if you insist.

"Pick Wilson". OK here you go:

Since you are having trouble following the question 1 more time there are 4 QBs listed, all of those stats are their playoff stats. The 4 are Brady, Montana, Elway, and Wilson amazing how close they all are. Hmm

But which one is which? If you cant understand the relevance then I cant help you. Oh and yes they said he was bad in the playoffs look higher in this thread.