Seahawks need to endure hardship and pain

[Chawker]

Toughness

Instead of being on the receiving end, we need to start dishing it out. Make LBers pay for filling a hole, and if a safty comes down to deliver a hit, then let him have it.

There are two types in this game those who get hit, and thoses who give hits.

It just seem like the Seahawks have been the ones who has been the ones getting hit for the last few years. I'm not saying go hire a bunch of bullys in free agency, but one or two would hurtt.

Cheers :229031_cheers: :229031_cheers: :229031_cheers:

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Well, the team IS missing a toughness and an intimidation factor that hasn't been there in a long time.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It just seem like the Seahawks have been the ones who has been the ones getting hit for the last few years. I'm not saying go hire a bunch of bullys in free agency, but one or two would hurtt.

Why do you think they traded for guys like Diggs and Adams, and keep trying to make Chris Carson work.

Pete and John know you need some dogs on your roster to impose your will and bully opponents.

What this has to do with your thread title I have no idea. But yeah, this isn't a newsflash to anyone.

 

[scutterhawk]

Be The Windshield - Not The Bug? :lol:

 

[keasley45]

It just seem like the Seahawks have been the ones who has been the ones getting hit for the last few years. I'm not saying go hire a bunch of bullys in free agency, but one or two would hurtt.

Why do you think they traded for guys like Diggs and Adams, and keep trying to make Chris Carson work.

Pete and John know you need some dogs on your roster to impose your will and bully opponents.

What this has to do with your thread title I have no idea. But yeah, this isn't a newsflash to anyone.

I agree 100%.

Maybe i'm reaching a bit in trying to understand the thread title, but if what is meant by hardship and pain is the dogged determination, refusal to quit, and demand for respect that came with playing for and rooting for the seahawks for almost 30 years before finding consistent success, i get it.

The thing that has made the seahawks who they are (fanbase and team), in my opinion, is embodied in years of being embarrassed, passed over, beaten and disrespected. The franchise started as a bit of a curiosity. We had a few star names but no sustained success. And even our stars were held in higher regard than the franchise, with media commentary on the team regularly revolving around how great our players might be if they played for other teams or that the problem with the seahawks is that they are in Seattle (aka, south alaska, siberia, etc.) And even when Knox brought success, it was relatively short lived and seemingly cursed by up and down play that only fed the fire of those outside seattle who just wanted to cast us as... cast-asides... The Seahags... the Seachickens.

Holmgren brought credibility. But he brought it not with anger and fury on the field, but rather with a carefully orchestrated dance of xs and os. the team rose and fell on its offense and precision. The defense-- it just had to not lose. Hardly a recipe for intimidation and respect if your offense isnt run by a Montana, Favre, Young, etc.

And then came Pete who came into town on a chorus of boos and criticism for fleeing the mess 'he made' at USC, so that he could peddle his brand of rah-rah, yes we can, 'program talk' football in a league that was to 'grown up' for his style. In SO many ways, the perfect leader.

But he assembled a battering ram of a team that cared little for precise offense or traditional perspectives on how the game on defense should be played. And in a way that only the very best can, Pete harnessed all of the years of disrespect the city had seen... that the many teams that came before his had to endure, in players who themselves had been cast asides and passed over. His team embodied the 'never die' attitude of a city and fanbase. And his team's play and ultimate success, FORCED the football world to look to the PNW with respect, whether it be on Sunday's behind the shoulder pads of Marshawn Lynch, Chancellor and Thomas, or the processes between monday and sunday that in many ways have created a shift in approach across the league that can be traced back to how teams practiced and played defense before Pete Carrols tenure in Seattle and how they did after.

So yeah. the Seahawks were born of hardship and pain. it drove them over the mountaintop to heights even the most diehard fans probably couldnt have imagined. And in the years since, our teams have either wilted on the vine of our failed second superbowl appearance or been driven more by the legacy of what the team WAS than what it needed to be.

This last season has ( i hope) tossed a little bit of that dirt into the mouth of a team that had been accustomed to sipping wine and being the subject of praise and accolade for going on a decade. How could you fault them though with the legacy that was built here? But 7-10 changes things. Ridicule changes things. Disrespect from the league questioning whether the team has lost its way and if its stars are worth their paychecks. guys like Adams hear it. Wilson hears it. A defense that was caught in limbo between a construct that worked 5 years ago and the next innovative appraoch that will likely reset the board as to how defense is played in this league... they hear it. And with new leadership from a next generation of coaches who no doubt feel as though theyve been given the pieces and parts that are likely closer to becoming a Ferrari, than a Kia... they hear it too.

This team was built with mud on its face and dirt in its mouth. A good bit of that is back again. struggle, pain, disrespect. Seattle eats that sh!t for breakfast, just like its football team does.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

My guess is the OP is talking about the emotional and psychological profile of player acquisition. Drafting, trading, whatever.

But again, this isn't new to any NFL team. Football is a battle of will and pain. Every GM in the league knows players who come from adversity and hardship will normally play harder and endure adversity and pain more than players who don't.

I THINK this is what the OP is talking about.

Give Pete and John credit for building a SB Champion roster full of players like this. But it's not a new thing, nor something every other GM in the league isn't also looking for now.

Guys who love ball and play with a chip on their shoulder, helping you win football games since 1920.

 

[chris98251]

My guess is the OP is talking about the emotional and psychological profile of player acquisition. Drafting, trading, whatever.

But again, this isn't new to any NFL team. Football is a battle of will and pain. Every GM in the league knows players who come from adversity and hardship will normally play harder and endure adversity and pain more than players who don't.

I THINK this is what the OP is talking about.

Give Pete and John credit for building a SB Champion roster full of players like this. But it's not a new thing, nor something every other GM in the league isn't also looking for now.

Guys who love ball and play with a chip on their shoulder, helping you win football games since 1920.

Not sure I trust what your stating, I think we should ask John63, I am sure he had someone on the sidelines listening to Jim Thorps conversations.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Football used to be more about dominating the opponent, exploiting weaknesses, & group tactics.

Winning came from both being able to inflict pain & punishment, as well as endure it.

As it became less about dominating physically and more about players playing at the edge/limits of physical ability (ie standout players) then it became about individual players. And with that, came both the need to highlight those players and protect them.

Guys like Kam are going to have a harder and harder time doing their thing in today's NFL.

Defenses used to focus on 2 things:

1 - Prevent

2 - Punish

#2 is rapidly being rewritten out of the game with each rule change.

It used to be almost simulated war, with different group jockeying for position and trying to take territory from each other to reach the objective. Now it is more basketball on grass.

I suppose focusing on endurance would work, try to tire out the other team, don't let them rest, go quick strike, no huddle type of play - but trying to just punish teams into submission is swimming against the tide of where the NFL is heading and wants to go.

 

[scutterhawk]

Down through the years, the Seahawks had a smattering of Hard Hit-Hard Nosed Players who were stand-outs & now Hall of Famers, BUT, it wasn't until PETE CARROLL & JOHN SCHNEIDER formed the LOB Defense, and the combination of RUSSELL WILSON -MARSHAWN LYNCH that Seattle was finally put on the Demand Respect map.
This is one reason that Pete still gets the UNWAVERING RESPECT of JODY ALLEN & the FANS OF SEATTLE, especially the 'Old Fart' fans like myself, who've endured all the years & years of DISRESPECT & CRAP. :vodka:

 

[toffee]

My guess is the OP is talking about the emotional and psychological profile of player acquisition. Drafting, trading, whatever.

But again, this isn't new to any NFL team. Football is a battle of will and pain. Every GM in the league knows players who come from adversity and hardship will normally play harder and endure adversity and pain more than players who don't.

I THINK this is what the OP is talking about.

Give Pete and John credit for building a SB Champion roster full of players like this. But it's not a new thing, nor something every other GM in the league isn't also looking for now.

Guys who love ball and play with a chip on their shoulder, helping you win football games since 1920.

Not sure I trust what your stating, I think we should ask John63, I am sure he had someone on the sidelines listening to Jim Thorps conversations.

Don't be surprised that John63's network has grown to include listening in locker rooms.

 

[Chawker]

When I think back, I think about D. Butkis, D. Jones and R. Lott, I mean who cuts off his finger just to play a game ? J.Lambert, ol toothless Jack, Jim Otto the best center I've ever seen play.

It around this time of the I have always wish that we draft a special player that has greatness bread in him. For now we got Russ and Bobby. They has all the toughness we need for now.

 

[olyfan63]

It just seem like the Seahawks have been the ones who has been the ones getting hit for the last few years. I'm not saying go hire a bunch of bullys in free agency, but one or two would hurtt.

Why do you think they traded for guys like Diggs and Adams, and keep trying to make Chris Carson work.

Pete and John know you need some dogs on your roster to impose your will and bully opponents.

What this has to do with your thread title I have no idea. But yeah, this isn't a newsflash to anyone.

I agree 100%.

Maybe i'm reaching a bit in trying to understand the thread title, but if what is meant by hardship and pain is the dogged determination, refusal to quit, and demand for respect that came with playing for and rooting for the seahawks for almost 30 years before finding consistent success, i get it.

The thing that has made the seahawks who they are (fanbase and team), in my opinion, is embodied in years of being embarrassed, passed over, beaten and disrespected.
-snip-

Holmgren brought credibility. But he brought it not with anger and fury on the field, but rather with a carefully orchestrated dance of xs and os. the team rose and fell on its offense and precision. The defense-- it just had to not lose. Hardly a recipe for intimidation and respect if your offense isnt run by a Montana, Favre, Young, etc.

And then came Pete who came into town on a chorus of boos and criticism for fleeing the mess 'he made' at USC, so that he could peddle his brand of rah-rah, yes we can, 'program talk' football in a league that was to 'grown up' for his style. In SO many ways, the perfect leader.

But he assembled a battering ram of a team that cared little for precise offense or traditional perspectives on how the game on defense should be played. And in a way that only the very best can, Pete harnessed all of the years of disrespect the city had seen... that the many teams that came before his had to endure, in players who themselves had been cast asides and passed over. His team embodied the 'never die' attitude of a city and fanbase. And his team's play and ultimate success, FORCED the football world to look to the PNW with respect, whether it be on Sunday's behind the shoulder pads of Marshawn Lynch, Chancellor and Thomas, or the processes between monday and sunday that in many ways have created a shift in approach across the league that can be traced back to how teams practiced and played defense before Pete Carrols tenure in Seattle and how they did after.
--snip-

On board with everything you've said here. But how, how, did we get this far into the thread with nobody mentioning the name BRANDON BROWNER??!! Yes, Kam was pure gold, but Browner's highlight reel is full of ASSKICKING. Ironically, one of the best highlight packages is the one that also discusses his prison sentence for attempted murder. For some reason, I couldn't find the package of special teams highlights where Browner wipes out multiple players on a *punt fair catch*. Maybe someone else has that... Yes, Browner is in jail for reprehensible criminal behavior after his playing days, but that doesn't change the beast he was.

I always felt that a turning point for the Seahawks in the Pete Carroll era came in 2011, when the Hawks beat both the Giants, and then a few weeks later, the Ravens, in two very physical smash-mouth football games where it became clear the Holmgren-era finesse team label was over and the smashmouth, lunch-money-stealing, playground bully Seahawks emerged. In particular, that Giants game in October with the pink shoes and all, on the road, Eli and the Giants were driving for the scripted late-game heroics TD, to take the lead and break Hawks fans hearts. The announcers were primed and ready to call the inevitable and knob-slobber all over Eli. Then a very, strange, unknown phenomenon occurred. Eli's pass to Victor Cruz got tipped up in the air, Kam kept it alive, and then Browner snagged it and went about 90 yards the other way for a game-sealing pick-6. That was the moment it became clear, "these were not your father's Seahawks".

The game against the Ravens, the Seahawks matched their physicality, and raised them 2. And won the game. A Ravens team that was known as the league bullies, and they got smacked in the mouth by the Seahawks. Who are these guys?

I think the OP meant to say, "Seahawks need to cause their opponents hardship and pain". Who will be our Kam and Brandon Browner in the new defense? Will Jake Curhan and other OL, continue to develop into smashmouth bullies?

[youtube]jo3Yozb_StE[/youtube]

 

[keasley45]

It just seem like the Seahawks have been the ones who has been the ones getting hit for the last few years. I'm not saying go hire a bunch of bullys in free agency, but one or two would hurtt.

Why do you think they traded for guys like Diggs and Adams, and keep trying to make Chris Carson work.

Pete and John know you need some dogs on your roster to impose your will and bully opponents.

What this has to do with your thread title I have no idea. But yeah, this isn't a newsflash to anyone.

I agree 100%.

Maybe i'm reaching a bit in trying to understand the thread title, but if what is meant by hardship and pain is the dogged determination, refusal to quit, and demand for respect that came with playing for and rooting for the seahawks for almost 30 years before finding consistent success, i get it.

The thing that has made the seahawks who they are (fanbase and team), in my opinion, is embodied in years of being embarrassed, passed over, beaten and disrespected.
-snip-

Holmgren brought credibility. But he brought it not with anger and fury on the field, but rather with a carefully orchestrated dance of xs and os. the team rose and fell on its offense and precision. The defense-- it just had to not lose. Hardly a recipe for intimidation and respect if your offense isnt run by a Montana, Favre, Young, etc.

And then came Pete who came into town on a chorus of boos and criticism for fleeing the mess 'he made' at USC, so that he could peddle his brand of rah-rah, yes we can, 'program talk' football in a league that was to 'grown up' for his style. In SO many ways, the perfect leader.

But he assembled a battering ram of a team that cared little for precise offense or traditional perspectives on how the game on defense should be played. And in a way that only the very best can, Pete harnessed all of the years of disrespect the city had seen... that the many teams that came before his had to endure, in players who themselves had been cast asides and passed over. His team embodied the 'never die' attitude of a city and fanbase. And his team's play and ultimate success, FORCED the football world to look to the PNW with respect, whether it be on Sunday's behind the shoulder pads of Marshawn Lynch, Chancellor and Thomas, or the processes between monday and sunday that in many ways have created a shift in approach across the league that can be traced back to how teams practiced and played defense before Pete Carrols tenure in Seattle and how they did after.
--snip-

On board with everything you've said here. But how, how, did we get this far into the thread with nobody mentioning the name BRANDON BROWNER??!! Yes, Kam was pure gold, but Browner's highlight reel is full of ASSKICKING. Ironically, one of the best highlight packages is the one that also discusses his prison sentence for attempted murder. For some reason, I couldn't find the package of special teams highlights where Browner wipes out multiple players on a *punt fair catch*. Maybe someone else has that... Yes, Browner is in jail for reprehensible criminal behavior after his playing days, but that doesn't change the beast he was.

I always felt that a turning point for the Seahawks in the Pete Carroll era came in 2011, when the Hawks beat both the Giants, and then a few weeks later, the Ravens, in two very physical smash-mouth football games where it became clear the Holmgren-era finesse team label was over and the smashmouth, lunch-money-stealing, playground bully Seahawks emerged. In particular, that Giants game in October with the pink shoes and all, on the road, Eli and the Giants were driving for the scripted late-game heroics TD, to take the lead and break Hawks fans hearts. The announcers were primed and ready to call the inevitable and knob-slobber all over Eli. Then a very, strange, unknown phenomenon occurred. Eli's pass to Victor Cruz got tipped up in the air, Kam kept it alive, and then Browner snagged it and went about 90 yards the other way for a game-sealing pick-6. That was the moment it became clear, "these were not your father's Seahawks".

The game against the Ravens, the Seahawks matched their physicality, and raised them 2. And won the game. A Ravens team that was known as the league bullies, and they got smacked in the mouth by the Seahawks. Who are these guys?

I think the OP meant to say, "Seahawks need to cause their opponents hardship and pain". Who will be our Kam and Brandon Browner in the new defense? Will Jake Curhan and other OL, continue to develop into smashmouth bullies?

[youtube]jo3Yozb_StE[/youtube]

Agree with you on Browner 100 % and the annihilation play you are referring to was against Arizona. It was a thing of legend. I remember at the close of the play, you can see Leon Washington looking around at the 5 players Browner Destroyed as if he couldn't understand how pne man could dish out so much carnage.

But yes. Browner was probably THE catalyst that created the LOB. Sherm, Cam, ET3 all developed their reps on the heals of Browner just laying waste to receivers and running backs. I don't think he much cared about his coverage skills. He prevented completions as much by intimidation as he did by being in position.

 

[LTH]

Toughness

Instead of being on the receiving end, we need to start dishing it out. Make LBers pay for filling a hole, and if a safty comes down to deliver a hit, then let him have it.

There are two types in this game those who get hit, and thoses who give hits.

It just seem like the Seahawks have been the ones who has been the ones getting hit for the last few years. I'm not saying go hire a bunch of bullys in free agency, but one or two would hurtt.

Cheers :229031_cheers: :229031_cheers: :229031_cheers:

I certainly don't agree with that... The Seahawks dish it out as well as anyone just talk to the Niners... I think the league has made this a less violent sport with rule changes... The Seahawks are a hard hitting team no question about that in my mind


LTH