Seen this Ranking of under 30 QB's

[Anthony!]

It's close between RW and Cam, but the article got it right.

Container Cat will soon show up to refute this. No way Russ could edge out his beloved Cam.

When cam can complete over 60% of his passes and have a QB rating over 90 consistently he should not be #1. If it was best players under 30 maybe but not best QB

 

[Uncle Si]

It's close between RW and Cam, but the article got it right.

Container Cat will soon show up to refute this. No way Russ could edge out his beloved Cam.

When cam can complete over 60% of his passes and have a QB rating over 90 consistently he should not be #1. If it was best players under 30 maybe but not best QB

So Cam might be the best player under 30, just not the best QB?

In my own opinion I feel the two are fairly neck and neck. they play a similar style, they play in a similar system and both are developing as players. Not sure anyone can rightfully argue one over the other. Wilson may win out simply on consistency over a longer period of time. But surely this conversation could be different at the end of next year?

 

[Anthony!]

It's close between RW and Cam, but the article got it right.

Container Cat will soon show up to refute this. No way Russ could edge out his beloved Cam.

When cam can complete over 60% of his passes and have a QB rating over 90 consistently he should not be #1. If it was best players under 30 maybe but not best QB

So Cam might be the best player under 30, just not the best QB?

In my own opinion I feel the two are fairly neck and neck. they play a similar style, they play in a similar system and both are developing as players. Not sure anyone can rightfully argue one over the other. Wilson may win out simply on consistency over a longer period of time. But surely this conversation could be different at the end of next year?

sure one his best player he gets that because of his running, but running does not make you the best QB and the key word used was maybe, you could argue Wilson has the edge there also. As to the rest, if you cannot consistently complete 60% of your passes and get a QB rating over 90 you cannot be #1. Heck he has had 2 season with a QB rating under 85 which is the avg point, by comparison Wilson worse year was 95+. Cams complt% has only gone over 60 twice out of 5, Wilson has never been below 60%. So that is why he cannot be #1

 

[Uncle Si]

So Cam might be the best player under 30, just not the best QB?

In my own opinion I feel the two are fairly neck and neck. they play a similar style, they play in a similar system and both are developing as players. Not sure anyone can rightfully argue one over the other. Wilson may win out simply on consistency over a longer period of time. But surely this conversation could be different at the end of next year?

sure one his best player he gets that because of his running, but running does not make you the next QB and the key word used was maybe, you could argue Wilson has the edge there also. As to the rest, if you cannot consistently complete 60% of your passes and get a QB rating over 90 you cannot be #1. Heck he has had 2 season with a QB rating under 85 which is the avg point, by comparison Wilson worse year was 95+. Cams complt5 has only gone over 60 twice out of 5, Wilson has never been below 60%. So that is why he cannot be #1

Running is considered a strong component of the position for QBs like Wilson and Cam... so if you're going to suggest the stat makes them a great player, it also makes them a great QB.

It's not strong logic.

hand selecting QBR but ignoring his running is just silly without considering the types of attempts both players make. I wonder who throws deep more often and which offense opts for a more conservative approach.

Again, for me, they are 1a and 1b.. i don't see how anyone can assuredly state one over the other.

 

[RichNhansom]

For me they are certainly not equal and imo you have to ignore a ton of info to think they are.

Cam has played behind less than excellent O-lines (likely none near as bad as what Wilson has endured his entire career) and when he did he wasn't remotely in the conversation of top QB. Even with one of the best O-lines in the game and throwing to a probowl TE and having a probowl RB and FB that both catch passes, his individual stats are far inferior and that is playing the easiest schedule in the league.

If Cam and Wilson changed teams this year Carolina would still be going to the superbowl and Seattle would not have even made the playoffs.

 

[Anthony!]

sure one his best player he gets that because of his running, but running does not make you the next QB and the key word used was maybe, you could argue Wilson has the edge there also. As to the rest, if you cannot consistently complete 60% of your passes and get a QB rating over 90 you cannot be #1. Heck he has had 2 season with a QB rating under 85 which is the avg point, by comparison Wilson worse year was 95+. Cams complt5 has only gone over 60 twice out of 5, Wilson has never been below 60%. So that is why he cannot be #1

Running is considered a strong component of the position for QBs like Wilson and Cam... so if you're going to suggest the stat makes them a great player, it also makes them a great QB.

It's not strong logic.

hand selecting QBR but ignoring his running is just silly without considering the types of attempts both players make. I wonder who throws deep more often and which offense opts for a more conservative approach.

Again, for me, they are 1a and 1b.. i don't see how anyone can assuredly state one over the other.

Ahh well for you they can be the facts show they are not 1 and 1a. they are at best 1 and 2. IT is very well established that a QB rating of 85 is avg, it is well established the mark for QBs is complt% over 60. So if you cannot consistently reach those marks you cannot be the #1 QB. In your opinion we have to include running, but the issue is there are only a hand full of QBs that run like Wilson or Cam so you are giving them special treatment because they can do something other cannot so you are now comparing apples to oranges, However when we look at the specific QB related things Complt%, Qb rating, TD/Int ratio etc Cam falls short of being #1. SO in other words you want to use the running because without it is very clear he is not 1 or 1a. FYI Wilson led the league in throws over 20 yards and in complt% over 20 yards so there is the answer for that as well. IT is interesting in years past when people brought up these facts and tried using Wilsons running to make up the difference in yards, and TDs everyone said nope that is not how you measure a QB, but now that it is Cam, n east coast QB, who is over 6 foot and a former #1 pick now those same people want to use them. To me at best it is Wilson 1 and Cam 2, thankfully the QB measuring points support that.

 

[Anthony!]

For me they are certainly not equal and imo you have to ignore a ton of info to think they are.

Cam has played behind less than excellent O-lines (likely none near as bad as what Wilson has endured his entire career) and when he did he wasn't remotely in the conversation of top QB. Even with one of the best O-lines in the game and throwing to a probowl TE and having a probowl RB and FB that both catch passes, his individual stats are far inferior and that is playing the easiest schedule in the league.

If Cam and Wilson changed teams this year Carolina would still be going to the superbowl and Seattle would not have even made the playoffs.

Bing Bing Bing we have a winner

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

Good discussion in this thread thus far.

 

[Uncle Si]

Ahh well for you they can be the facts show they are not 1 and 1a. they are at best 1 and 2. IT is very well established that a QB rating of 85 is avg, it is well established the mark for QBs is complt% over 60. So if you cannot consistently reach those marks you cannot be the #1 QB. In your opinion we have to include running, but the issue is there are only a hand full of QBs that run like Wilson or Cam so you are giving them special treatment because they can do something other cannot so you are now comparing apples to oranges, However when we look at the specific QB related things Complt%, Qb rating, TD/Int ratio etc Cam falls short of being #1. SO in other words you want to use the running because without it is very clear he is not 1 or 1a. FYI Wilson led the league in throws over 20 yards and in complt% over 20 yards so there is the answer for that as well. IT is interesting in years past when people brought up these facts and tried using Wilsons running to make up the difference in yards, and TDs everyone said nope that is not how you measure a QB, but now that it is Cam, n east coast QB, who is over 6 foot and a former #1 pick now those same people want to use them. To me at best it is Wilson 1 and Cam 2, thankfully the QB measuring points support that.

I know you love to thump the stat that helps prove your point.

Should we look beyond completion percentage and QBR? (I'm only arguing this because you have no objectivity and its obnoxious, not because I think one is better).

Last 3 years:

Wilson: 868 completions, 10856 yards, 80TDs, 21 INTs, QBR (101/95/110), 1927 rushing yards, 8 rushing TDs, 88TDS total

Cam: 850 completions, 10343 yards, 77Tds, 35 INTs, QBR (since you love it) 88/82/99, 1837 rushing yards, 21 rush Tds, 98 TDS total

So the stats are extremely similar outside INTs, QBR and Rushing TDs. You pick and choose how to define the positional stats to suit an argument, knowing full well that the some of those stats (including the rushing) that make both unique and special. Using running for two QBs who use variations of a Run-option and scramble is extremely important. Don't be ridiculous.

As for the deep passing logic... when taking out yards after catch, Wilson's "deep pass" numbers fall below Newtons, a particular caveat of the two offenses the teams run. And while trying to play catch up as to who's O-line is better, I wonder whose running game benefited the QB the most? Or whose defense over the last 3 years put their QB in better positions.

the rest of your logic is juvenile.. "east Coast QB... tall..."

Admonishing an argument you can't win with objectivity is the same as "I know you are but what am I"

 

[Anthony!]

Ahh well for you they can be the facts show they are not 1 and 1a. they are at best 1 and 2. IT is very well established that a QB rating of 85 is avg, it is well established the mark for QBs is complt% over 60. So if you cannot consistently reach those marks you cannot be the #1 QB. In your opinion we have to include running, but the issue is there are only a hand full of QBs that run like Wilson or Cam so you are giving them special treatment because they can do something other cannot so you are now comparing apples to oranges, However when we look at the specific QB related things Complt%, Qb rating, TD/Int ratio etc Cam falls short of being #1. SO in other words you want to use the running because without it is very clear he is not 1 or 1a. FYI Wilson led the league in throws over 20 yards and in complt% over 20 yards so there is the answer for that as well. IT is interesting in years past when people brought up these facts and tried using Wilsons running to make up the difference in yards, and TDs everyone said nope that is not how you measure a QB, but now that it is Cam, n east coast QB, who is over 6 foot and a former #1 pick now those same people want to use them. To me at best it is Wilson 1 and Cam 2, thankfully the QB measuring points support that.

I know you love to thump the stat that helps prove your point.

Should we look beyond completion percentage and QBR? (I'm only arguing this because you have no objectivity and its obnoxious, not because I think one is better).

Last 3 years:

Wilson: 868 completions, 10856 yards, 80TDs, 21 INTs, QBR (101/95/110), 1927 rushing yards, 8 rushing TDs, 88TDS total

Cam: 850 completions, 10343 yards, 77Tds, 35 INTs, QBR (since you love it) 88/82/99, 1837 rushing yards, 21 rush Tds, 98 TDS total

So the stats are extremely similar outside INTs, QBR and Rushing TDs. You pick and choose how to define the positional stats to suit an argument, knowing full well that the some of those stats (including the rushing) that make both unique and special. Using running for two QBs who use variations of a Run-option and scramble is extremely important. Don't be ridiculous.

As for the deep passing logic... when taking out yards after catch, Wilson's "deep pass" numbers fall below Newtons, a particular caveat of the two offenses the teams run. And while trying to play catch up as to who's O-line is better, I wonder whose running game benefited the QB the most? Or whose defense over the last 3 years put their QB in better positions.

the rest of your logic is juvenile.. "east Coast QB... tall..."

Admonishing an argument you can't win with objectivity is the same as "I know you are but what am I"

That is great and thank you for proving my point Qb rating is a huge difference and Complt% is also a huge difference and those are 2 of the main stats for a QB then lets add in td/int ratio Wilson is 3.8/1, Cam is 2.2/1 that is huge. So sorry you helped make my point. Sorry to tell you the rest of my logic is not juvenile if you are actually reading everything being said, your unwillingness to believe it plays a part is naïve. SO thank you for proving my point they are not 1 and 1a at best it is 1 and 2 and until Cam can get over 60% complt consistently and over 90 QB rating consistently I am not sure he should be 2 top 5 yeas not sure on 2

 

[Uncle Si]

Ahh well for you they can be the facts show they are not 1 and 1a. they are at best 1 and 2. IT is very well established that a QB rating of 85 is avg, it is well established the mark for QBs is complt% over 60. So if you cannot consistently reach those marks you cannot be the #1 QB. In your opinion we have to include running, but the issue is there are only a hand full of QBs that run like Wilson or Cam so you are giving them special treatment because they can do something other cannot so you are now comparing apples to oranges, However when we look at the specific QB related things Complt%, Qb rating, TD/Int ratio etc Cam falls short of being #1. SO in other words you want to use the running because without it is very clear he is not 1 or 1a. FYI Wilson led the league in throws over 20 yards and in complt% over 20 yards so there is the answer for that as well. IT is interesting in years past when people brought up these facts and tried using Wilsons running to make up the difference in yards, and TDs everyone said nope that is not how you measure a QB, but now that it is Cam, n east coast QB, who is over 6 foot and a former #1 pick now those same people want to use them. To me at best it is Wilson 1 and Cam 2, thankfully the QB measuring points support that.

I know you love to thump the stat that helps prove your point.

Should we look beyond completion percentage and QBR? (I'm only arguing this because you have no objectivity and its obnoxious, not because I think one is better).

Last 3 years:

Wilson: 868 completions, 10856 yards, 80TDs, 21 INTs, QBR (101/95/110), 1927 rushing yards, 8 rushing TDs, 88TDS total

Cam: 850 completions, 10343 yards, 77Tds, 35 INTs, QBR (since you love it) 88/82/99, 1837 rushing yards, 21 rush Tds, 98 TDS total

So the stats are extremely similar outside INTs, QBR and Rushing TDs. You pick and choose how to define the positional stats to suit an argument, knowing full well that the some of those stats (including the rushing) that make both unique and special. Using running for two QBs who use variations of a Run-option and scramble is extremely important. Don't be ridiculous.

As for the deep passing logic... when taking out yards after catch, Wilson's "deep pass" numbers fall below Newtons, a particular caveat of the two offenses the teams run. And while trying to play catch up as to who's O-line is better, I wonder whose running game benefited the QB the most? Or whose defense over the last 3 years put their QB in better positions.

the rest of your logic is juvenile.. "east Coast QB... tall..."

Admonishing an argument you can't win with objectivity is the same as "I know you are but what am I"

That is great and thank you for proving my point Qb rating is a huge difference and Complt% is also a huge difference and those are 2 of the main stats for a QB then lets add in td/int ratio Wilson is 3.8/1, Cam is 2.2/1 that is huge. So sorry you helped make my point. Sorry to tell you the rest of my logic is not juvenile if you are actually reading everything being said, your unwillingness to believe it plays a part is naïve. SO thank you for proving my point they are not 1 and 1a at best it is 1 and 2 and until Cam can get over 60% complt consistently and over 90 QB rating consistently I am not sure he should be 2 top 5 yeas not sure on 2

As always... more juvenile condescending...

QBR rating is the only difference between the two QBs you want to consider, obviously punishing Cams INTs... but it doesn't measure their impact on the ground?

How can it be utilized as an effective measure if it completely ignores Cam's amazing production as a runner?

You keep harping on Completion percentage, but here Cam is steps away from a trophy with what you determine is an inferior stat... yet he won 5 more games and lost 6 less than Russ, with essentially the same stats outside completion percentage and rushing TDs.. (and here comes the "inferior line/WRs/etc")

Makes you wonder what point is really being proved.... naive indeed.

 

[Anthony!]

Ahh well for you they can be the facts show they are not 1 and 1a. they are at best 1 and 2. IT is very well established that a QB rating of 85 is avg, it is well established the mark for QBs is complt% over 60. So if you cannot consistently reach those marks you cannot be the #1 QB. In your opinion we have to include running, but the issue is there are only a hand full of QBs that run like Wilson or Cam so you are giving them special treatment because they can do something other cannot so you are now comparing apples to oranges, However when we look at the specific QB related things Complt%, Qb rating, TD/Int ratio etc Cam falls short of being #1. SO in other words you want to use the running because without it is very clear he is not 1 or 1a. FYI Wilson led the league in throws over 20 yards and in complt% over 20 yards so there is the answer for that as well. IT is interesting in years past when people brought up these facts and tried using Wilsons running to make up the difference in yards, and TDs everyone said nope that is not how you measure a QB, but now that it is Cam, n east coast QB, who is over 6 foot and a former #1 pick now those same people want to use them. To me at best it is Wilson 1 and Cam 2, thankfully the QB measuring points support that.

I know you love to thump the stat that helps prove your point.

Should we look beyond completion percentage and QBR? (I'm only arguing this because you have no objectivity and its obnoxious, not because I think one is better).

Last 3 years:

Wilson: 868 completions, 10856 yards, 80TDs, 21 INTs, QBR (101/95/110), 1927 rushing yards, 8 rushing TDs, 88TDS total

Cam: 850 completions, 10343 yards, 77Tds, 35 INTs, QBR (since you love it) 88/82/99, 1837 rushing yards, 21 rush Tds, 98 TDS total

So the stats are extremely similar outside INTs, QBR and Rushing TDs. You pick and choose how to define the positional stats to suit an argument, knowing full well that the some of those stats (including the rushing) that make both unique and special. Using running for two QBs who use variations of a Run-option and scramble is extremely important. Don't be ridiculous.

As for the deep passing logic... when taking out yards after catch, Wilson's "deep pass" numbers fall below Newtons, a particular caveat of the two offenses the teams run. And while trying to play catch up as to who's O-line is better, I wonder whose running game benefited the QB the most? Or whose defense over the last 3 years put their QB in better positions.

the rest of your logic is juvenile.. "east Coast QB... tall..."

Admonishing an argument you can't win with objectivity is the same as "I know you are but what am I"

That is great and thank you for proving my point Qb rating is a huge difference and Complt% is also a huge difference and those are 2 of the main stats for a QB then lets add in td/int ratio Wilson is 3.8/1, Cam is 2.2/1 that is huge. So sorry you helped make my point. Sorry to tell you the rest of my logic is not juvenile if you are actually reading everything being said, your unwillingness to believe it plays a part is naïve. SO thank you for proving my point they are not 1 and 1a at best it is 1 and 2 and until Cam can get over 60% complt consistently and over 90 QB rating consistently I am not sure he should be 2 top 5 yeas not sure on 2

As always... more juvenile condescending...

QBR rating is the only difference between the two QBs you want to consider, obviously punishing Cams INTs... but it doesn't measure their impact on the ground?

How can it be utilized as an effective measure if it completely ignores Cam's amazing production as a runner?

You keep harping on Completion percentage, but here Cam is steps away from a trophy with what you determine is an inferior stat... yet he won 5 more games and lost 6 less than Russ, with essentially the same stats outside completion percentage and rushing TDs.. (and here comes the "inferior line/WRs/etc")

Makes you wonder what point is really being proved.... naive indeed.

LOL pot kettle dude as always, the rest of your post, yes Cam won them his top 6 defense and run game has nothing to do wit it just him, funny how you say that for Cam but for Wilson it was all about the defense and run game LOL very naïve, and very hypocritical. Like I said the fact show it is not 1 and 1a at best it is 1 and 2.

 

[Uncle Si]

You completely me Anthony!

There is one "LOL" quota per post...

I'm not sure you know what naive and hypocritical mean, or just aren't very good at applying them. What does the defense and run game have to do with it? Nothing more or less than a team's OL being factored into the argument, which you supported.

The facts are quite clear... the two are very similar in most statistical categories over the last three years, with the bigger differences being in: Russ has less INTs, a few more passing yards, Cam has more total TDs. 1a...1b.. I really don't get the obsession with completion percentage. I would take Russ 9 out of 10 times to QB a team I'm cheering for. Cam would be the next best thing. Not sure why you are so demonstratively against recognizing how uniquely similar, talented and successful the two are.

While you are looking up the other two words you should try "objectivity"...

 

[Anthony!]

You completely me Anthony!

There is one "LOL" quota per post...

I'm not sure you know what naive and hypocritical mean, or just aren't very good at applying them. What does the defense and run game have to do with it? Nothing more or less than a team's OL being factored into the argument, which you supported.

The facts are quite clear... the two are very similar in most statistical categories over the last three years, with the bigger differences being in: Russ has less INTs, a few more passing yards, Cam has more total TDs. 1a...1b.. I really don't get the obsession with completion percentage. I would take Russ 9 out of 10 times to QB a team I'm cheering for. Cam would be the next best thing. Not sure why you are so demonstratively against recognizing how uniquely similar, talented and successful the two are.

While you are looking up the other two words you should try "objectivity"...

"You completely me Anthony!" yeah that makes sense and you may have a quota on LO I do not, and as to the rest don't care since you still cannot change the facts. Wilson much higher Qb rating, Wilson much Higher Complt%, Wilson much higher td/int ratio those are QB stats. Thanks but as I said Wilson 1 and Cam at best 2. So get back to me when you can grasp these 3 very simple things as they are 3 of the top measuring points for a QB, if you cannot get them then you are not capable of discussing QBs.

 

[Uncle Si]

That reply about sums it up....

 

[Anthony!]

That reply about sums it up....

Yup guess it does, like I said they are simple things but for some simple is to difficult

 

[Clayfighter]

Obviously Russ is number 1 because he doesn't do a dooshy dance after every 1st down. Duh. Look that stat up gentleman. :stirthepot:

Sidenote: Cam does that towel thing whenever he goes to the sideline. What is that all about? Does his hair get wet? Honest question.