The Amazing Russell Wilson

[Anthony!]

In our two losses this year we had two late drives in each game that could win or tie. In those four drives we turned the ball over on downs twice, had one interception and one punt. ZERO first downs...in four game deciding drives.

and in 2 of our 3 wins we had late drives or OT drives that iced or won the game, You cannot win them all on late drives.

 

[CamanoIslandJQ]

I'm not posting here just to defend Wilson, he has proven to me at least that he is very good and has been one of the best draft picks ever made by the Seahawks and we're extremely fortunate to have him hopefully for years to come. That is not to say he is perfect, no QB is ---or ever will be--- perfect. To me, it's still a team game and any weak links (OL, offensive coordinator) on the team cause problems for other aspects of the game. I am however a bit confused on the following concepts.

"Not going through progressions", "If first read isn't open, he runs", "Not looking off safety", "misses way too many open receivers", "leaves the pocket too soon" (when there is no pocket to begin with?), ETC.

My question to y'all saying any form of the above:
-1---How can you determine where the QB's (any QB) eyes are looking? Is head motion the only criteria?

-2---Are you saying that a QB must move his head in order to see anywhere up the field other than straight up the middle, like his eyes are not capable of seeing anywhere but straight ahead?

-3---If his head moves 1 inch to either side, how do y'all see that minimal movement while sitting on your couch?

-4--- How can we fans determine that a receiver is "open" by watching TV broadcasts? If the receiver is open, what is the position of the QB's feet at that exact point in time? Do you expect a pass when his feet aren't in proper position?

-5--How can you determine exactly how many "reads" a QB makes? Even on DVR this must still be a guess at best.

-6---Are incomplete passes all on the QB? Don't receivers turn the wrong way, run the wrong routes, miss-time their jumps for the ball, run routes too fast or slow & fail on anticipation throws? Drop passes that shouldn't have? Etc.

-7---Do y'all think Wilson is actually calling the plays? (other than check-downs based on defensive alignment, option plays to run or pass and straight up broken plays?

-8---Do y'all think everything said by in-game announcers (not to mention the stupid media guys) is absolutely 100% true and they know what the heck they are talking about more than about half the time (if that)?
Just wondering.

 

[RunTheBall]

In our two losses this year we had two late drives in each game that could win or tie. In those four drives we turned the ball over on downs twice, had one interception and one punt. ZERO first downs...in four game deciding drives.

Bench Wilson, put in TJack.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I'm really wondering if Wilson's still on a leash in terms of throwing deep. I.E., either Bevell or Pete are telling him don't go deep unless the receiver's WIDE open.

 

[DavidSeven]

I'm really wondering if Wilson's still on a leash in terms of throwing deep. I.E., either Bevell or Pete are telling him don't go deep unless the receiver's WIDE open.

Pete got that question on Wednesday and said they're still sending guys deep as often as they've ever done and that Russell just didn't see those guys. To me, Pete seemed in favor of more deep shots. He mentioned Russell does need to get the ball out faster. Interestingly, he made a comment that suggested that vision actually does seem to be an issue for Russell, though he accepts that because of all the other really special stuff he does. I thought it was interesting because I don't think I've ever heard Pete concede that before (basically acknowledging that his height is a factor in some regard).

Was I the only one who noticed that?

 

[Anthony!]

I'm not posting here just to defend Wilson, he has proven to me at least that he is very good and has been one of the best draft picks ever made by the Seahawks and we're extremely fortunate to have him hopefully for years to come. That is not to say he is perfect, no QB is ---or ever will be--- perfect. To me, it's still a team game and any weak links (OL, offensive coordinator) on the team cause problems for other aspects of the game. I am however a bit confused on the following concepts.

"Not going through progressions", "If first read isn't open, he runs", "Not looking off safety", "misses way too many open receivers", "leaves the pocket too soon" (when there is no pocket to begin with?), ETC.

My question to y'all saying any form of the above:
-1---How can you determine where the QB's (any QB) eyes are looking? Is head motion the only criteria?

-2---Are you saying that a QB must move his head in order to see anywhere up the field other than straight up the middle, like his eyes are not capable of seeing anywhere but straight ahead?

-3---If his head moves 1 inch to either side, how do y'all see that minimal movement while sitting on your couch?

-4--- How can we fans determine that a receiver is "open" by watching TV broadcasts? If the receiver is open, what is the position of the QB's feet at that exact point in time? Do you expect a pass when his feet aren't in proper position?

-5--How can you determine exactly how many "reads" a QB makes? Even on DVR this must still be a guess at best.

-6---Are incomplete passes all on the QB? Don't receivers turn the wrong way, run the wrong routes, miss-time their jumps for the ball, run routes too fast or slow & fail on anticipation throws? Drop passes that shouldn't have? Etc.

-7---Do y'all think Wilson is actually calling the plays? (other than check-downs based on defensive alignment, option plays to run or pass and straight up broken plays?

-8---Do y'all think everything said by in-game announcers (not to mention the stupid media guys) is absolutely 100% true and they know what the heck they are talking about more than about half the time (if that)?
Just wondering.

Great post let me help

Millan, Huard, Moon and Holmgren all looked that tape and all said for the most part Wr are not getting open, o-line is not blocking, Holmgren said sometimes Wilson leave the pocket to help his Wr get open because they are not. They all said it is nto all on the WR some is play calling, the route trees are not NFL level. Unlike all the other franchise QBs Wilson has no #1 wr, imagine if he had Dez, and an o-line ranked higher than 23rd in pass blocking.

Wilson did play bad, and on a day when no one on offense to include the OC did well. But lets remember is was just 1 week earlier Wilson pretty much won the game by himself.

 

[Anthony!]

I'm really wondering if Wilson's still on a leash in terms of throwing deep. I.E., either Bevell or Pete are telling him don't go deep unless the receiver's WIDE open.

Pete got that question on Wednesday and said they're still sending guys deep as often as they've ever done and that Russell just didn't see those guys. To me, Pete seemed in favor of more deep shots. He mentioned Russell does need to get the ball out faster. Interestingly, he made a comment that suggested that vision actually does seem to be an issue for Russell, though he accepts that because of all the other really special stuff he does. I thought it was interesting because I don't think I've ever heard Pete concede that before (basically acknowledging that his height is a factor in some regard).

Was I the only one who noticed that?

I did not notice that at all, in fact PC was on KJR and a asked that and said no, he also said there were a few times someone was open deep but by that time it was too late, as Wilson had moved on in his progressions or was chased from the pocket. IT does no good for guys to get open deep on the left if Wilson has already been chased form the pocket to the right he cannot see them. That was also echoed by Millan, and Huard

 

[Jacknut16]

I'm really wondering if Wilson's still on a leash in terms of throwing deep. I.E., either Bevell or Pete are telling him don't go deep unless the receiver's WIDE open.

Pete got that question on Wednesday and said they're still sending guys deep as often as they've ever done and that Russell just didn't see those guys. To me, Pete seemed in favor of more deep shots. He mentioned Russell does need to get the ball out faster. Interestingly, he made a comment that suggested that vision actually does seem to be an issue for Russell, though he accepts that because of all the other really special stuff he does. I thought it was interesting because I don't think I've ever heard Pete concede that before (basically acknowledging that his height is a factor in some regard).

Was I the only one who noticed that?

No you arent the only one, I heard it too, and I have heard Pete talk about how he likes to get Wilson a deep drop at times to help him see the field better. I have heard Holmgren and Millen say it also, about his limited sight with throwing lanes frome the pocket.

But what Pete said is exactly how I feel about Wilson, its obvious his limitations, but he does a lot of special things.

 

[Anthony!]

I'm really wondering if Wilson's still on a leash in terms of throwing deep. I.E., either Bevell or Pete are telling him don't go deep unless the receiver's WIDE open.

Pete got that question on Wednesday and said they're still sending guys deep as often as they've ever done and that Russell just didn't see those guys. To me, Pete seemed in favor of more deep shots. He mentioned Russell does need to get the ball out faster. Interestingly, he made a comment that suggested that vision actually does seem to be an issue for Russell, though he accepts that because of all the other really special stuff he does. I thought it was interesting because I don't think I've ever heard Pete concede that before (basically acknowledging that his height is a factor in some regard).

Was I the only one who noticed that?

No you arent the only one, I heard it too, and I have heard Pete talk about how he likes to get Wilson a deep drop at times to help him see the field better. I have heard Holmgren and Millen say it also, about his limited sight with throwing lanes frome the pocket.

But what Pete said is exactly how I feel about Wilson, its obvious his limitations, but he does a lot of special things.

As I said I also Hear PC on with KJR stating site was not an issue, I also heard Huard and Millan say the same thing, Hmm he completes over 64% of his passes from the pocket, over 100 QB rating, I would have to say it is no more an issue than any QB since there is no proof otherwise and as much as you supposedly heard it I and others heard the opposite and what I heard is supported by the facts. I will go with fact.

 

[Grahamhawker]

I'm not going to read back over all these threads...
If vision is not an issue, than what is?

 

[Anthony!]

I'm not going to read back over all these threads...
If vision is not an issue, than what is?

Well lets see, o-line horrible in pass protection, Wr as Moon, Huard, Millan, and MH all saying the same Wr not getting open, dropping passes, Getting open late after Wilson has had to scramble or moved on in his progressions. Not having a true #1 wr that all the franchise QBs have, As I post see below

Luck - 6th pass blocking o-line and has TY Hilton, Wyane, Nicks to throw to
P Manning- 4th pass blocking o-line and he has Thomas, Welker, Sanders
Brady 19th ranked pass blocking o-line (ours is now ranked 28th) and he has Gronk, Edelman
Rodger o-line ranked 19th in pass blocking and has Nelson, Cobb to throw to
Brees o-line ranked 5th and he has Graham, cooks, Colson,
Ryan 7th pass blocking o-line and he has Hester, Jones, White, Smith
Rivers 9th o-line, and he has gates, Floyd, Royal, Allen


Our o-line is ranked 23rd in pass blocking and that is before we face the NFC west. When I look at the WR these QBs have and compare them to Baldwin who is our best (not counting Harvin since we are not using him as a Wr) would not even be a #2 on any of these teams. Imagine if our o-line was say 12th and we had a say Dez, or HItlon, or wayne or Thomas, or Gronk, or Nelson etc etc etc. That is the problem I mean 8+ drops on the last 2 games. Against Redskins WIlson was able to make it happen, but he cannot do it every game without some help.

Also lets remember again He is a 64+.%5 complt inside the pocket, 100+ qb rating. IF vision was an issue those number would be lower period

 

[Anthony!]

You know I just went on Seahawks.com and listened to PC Wednesday conference and he was never asked about Wilson and his vision. So I will presume it did not make the cut. You can all go listen if you want. That said lets say he did say someone was open deep and Wilson did not see him, Great it happens to all QBs, the question is, as Huard pointed out, when did he get open, If he got open after Wilson scrambled and it was the other side of the field of course he did not see him. So it is not sop simple and does not prove vision is an issue and nothing PC said even eluded to that and since he has never said anything like that before I am going with he did not and someone is trying to read between the lines and cannot read well, or misunderstood things, since the facts do not support it and all.

 

[Grahamhawker]

I'm not going to read back over all these threads...
If vision is not an issue, than what is?

Well lets see, o-line horrible in pass protection, Wr as Moon, Huard, Millan, and MH all saying the same Wr not getting open, dropping passes, Getting open late after Wilson has had to scramble or move don in his progressions. Not having a true #1 wr that all the franchise QBs have, As I post see below

Luck - 6th pass blocking o-line and has TY Hilton, Wyane, Nicks to throw to
P Manning- 4th pass blocking o-line and he has Thomas, Welker, Sanders
Brady 19th ranked pass blocking o-line (ours is now ranked 28th) and he has Gronk, Edelman
Rodger o-line ranked 19th in pass blocking and has Nelson, Cobb to throw to
Brees o-line ranked 5th and he has Graham, cooks, Colson,
Ryan 7th pass blocking o-line and he has Hester, Jones, White, Smith
Rivers 9th o-line, and he has gates, Floyd, Royal, Allen


OUr o-lien is ranked 23rd in pass blocking and that is before we face the NFC west. When I look at the WR these QBs have and compare them to Baldwin who is our best (not counting Harvin since we are not using him as a Wr) would nto even be a #2 on any of these teams. Imagine if our o-line was say 12th and we had a say Dez, or HItlon, or wayne or Thomas, or Gronk, or Nelson etc etc etc. That is the problem I mean 8+ drops on the last 2 games. Against Redskins WIlson was able to make it happen, but he cannot do it every game without some help.

Also lets remember again He is a 64+5 complt inside the pocket, 100+ qb rating. IF vision was an issue those number would be lower period

Thanks.

 

[DavidSeven]

You know I just went on Seahawks.com and listened to PC Wednesday conference and he was never asked about Wilson and his vision.

Sorry, it was his Monday press conference.

Pete's unedited responses:

(On the team throwing the deep ball less because of the competition they're facing)

"No; if you go back and look, we had calls going down field and some got thrown and contested and some didn't. We didn't hit them like we'd like to; we got [Jermaine] Kearse on the first drive. We had Jermaine up the sideline; he makes a great play to make the catch-guy knocks the ball out. We had the play to Luke [Willson]; there are a number of other times. The seam routes that we throw, those are down field throws for us. You just answer a question of whoever is asking from the outside too. ‘Hey you're not throwing the ball down field.' We're doing just like we always do; hasn't changed at all."

(On if he feels like Russell Wilson is getting the protection he needs)

"Always could be better and there's times where he could get the ball out just a hair quicker, but he's resourceful and he has a style. He's got to see it to throw it and sometimes he feels like he has a better option going somewhere else and we live with that style that he brings us; and it gets us all kinds of good stuff. Sometimes we miss a shot here or there, but basically he does a fantastic job of knowing when to and when not to."

Full transcript: http://www.fieldgulls.com/2014/10/14/69 ... conference
Video (starts talking about Wilson at 11:30): http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photos/v ... 31fca480a4

I'm reading between the lines of "he's got to see it to throw it." That could refer potentially to a lot of things. But like I said, I thought this was just a mere suggestion to Wilson's vision, not an outright criticism.

 

[Anthony!]

You know I just went on Seahawks.com and listened to PC Wednesday conference and he was never asked about Wilson and his vision.

Sorry, it was his Monday press conference.

Pete's unedited responses:

(On the team throwing the deep ball less because of the competition they're facing)

"No; if you go back and look, we had calls going down field and some got thrown and contested and some didn't. We didn't hit them like we'd like to; we got [Jermaine] Kearse on the first drive. We had Jermaine up the sideline; he makes a great play to make the catch-guy knocks the ball out. We had the play to Luke [Willson]; there are a number of other times. The seam routes that we throw, those are down field throws for us. You just answer a question of whoever is asking from the outside too. ‘Hey you're not throwing the ball down field.' We're doing just like we always do; hasn't changed at all."

(On if he feels like Russell Wilson is getting the protection he needs)

"Always could be better and there's times where he could get the ball out just a hair quicker, but he's resourceful and he has a style. He's got to see it to throw it and sometimes he feels like he has a better option going somewhere else and we live with that style that he brings us; and it gets us all kinds of good stuff. Sometimes we miss a shot here or there, but basically he does a fantastic job of knowing when to and when not to."

Full transcript: http://www.fieldgulls.com/2014/10/14/69 ... conference
Video (starts talking about Wilson at 11:30): http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photos/v ... 31fca480a4

I don't think that's reading between the lines. He is clearly saying there are things he doesn't see, but that he can "live with that style" because of all the good stuff he does. If you watch the video, he clearly emphasizes "he's got to see it to throw it" in his inflection. Anyway, I originally said it was a mere suggestion to the fact there are things he doesn't see, not an outright criticism.

Thanks that explains why I was not on the Wends and disagree him saying he needs top see it to through it doe snot mean he does not see it, he just may not see them as open as some think they are which is something Millan, Huard, Moon and MH said. IN fact PC says "He's got to see it to throw it and sometimes he feels like he has a better option going somewhere else and we live with that style that he brings us" That does not mean he does not see it he specifically says a better option so yeah it is reading between the lines. He also goes on to say "fantastic job of knowing when to and when not to."" in other words he sees it but likes something better not he cannot see it. Also the fact no sports media or other fans picked up on this tells me it is being misread. IF he did say that and it was that clear as you are trying to make it sound it would be all over ESPN, CBS sports, etc, But again while he says he needs to see it he also says better option. For me that is he may not see it as open as others not he does not see it and again if that was what he meant you can bet every sports site would have run with it and none did.

 

[DavidSeven]

Thanks that explains why I was not on the Wends and disagree him saying he needs top see it to through it doe snot mean he does not see it, he just may not see them as open as some think they are which is something Millan, Huard, Moon and MH said. IN fact PC says "He's got to see it to throw it and sometimes he feels like he has a better option going somewhere else and we live with that style that he brings us" That does not mean he does not see it he specifically says a better option so yeah it is reading between the lines. He also goes on to say "fantastic job of knowing when to and when not to."" in other words he sees it but likes something better not he cannot see it.

Yeah, I actually edited my post right before your response because I was reading between the lines a bit. But like I said in my original post, I thought Pete's response was a suggestion toward his vision, not an outright criticism. Personally, within the context of the entire statement, I think he is referring to his vision downfield but obviously coloring it up with coach-speak. I'm not damning Wilson (and I don't think Pete is either). The things Wilson can do on broken plays is special, and he's probably better at it than anyone in the NFL. However, there are shots downfield that we're missing that even these conservative coaches would like to see him take -- that was the original point of my post.

 

[Anthony!]

You know I just went on Seahawks.com and listened to PC Wednesday conference and he was never asked about Wilson and his vision.

Sorry, it was his Monday press conference.

Pete's unedited responses:

(On the team throwing the deep ball less because of the competition they're facing)

"No; if you go back and look, we had calls going down field and some got thrown and contested and some didn't. We didn't hit them like we'd like to; we got [Jermaine] Kearse on the first drive. We had Jermaine up the sideline; he makes a great play to make the catch-guy knocks the ball out. We had the play to Luke [Willson]; there are a number of other times. The seam routes that we throw, those are down field throws for us. You just answer a question of whoever is asking from the outside too. ‘Hey you're not throwing the ball down field.' We're doing just like we always do; hasn't changed at all."

(On if he feels like Russell Wilson is getting the protection he needs)

"Always could be better and there's times where he could get the ball out just a hair quicker, but he's resourceful and he has a style. He's got to see it to throw it and sometimes he feels like he has a better option going somewhere else and we live with that style that he brings us; and it gets us all kinds of good stuff. Sometimes we miss a shot here or there, but basically he does a fantastic job of knowing when to and when not to."

Full transcript: http://www.fieldgulls.com/2014/10/14/69 ... conference
Video (starts talking about Wilson at 11:30): http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photos/v ... 31fca480a4

I don't think that's reading between the lines. He is clearly saying there are things he doesn't see, but that he can "live with that style" because of all the good stuff he does. If you watch the video, he clearly emphasizes "he's got to see it to throw it" in his inflection. Anyway, I originally said it was a mere suggestion to the fact there are things he doesn't see, not an outright criticism.

Thanks that explains why I was not on the Wends and disagree, him saying he needs to see it to throw it does not mean he does not see it, he just may not see them as open as some think they are which is something Millan, Huard, Moon and MH said. In fact PC says "He's got to see it to throw it and sometimes he feels like he has a better option going somewhere else and we live with that style that he brings us" That does not mean he does not see it he specifically says a better option so yeah it is reading between the lines. He also goes on to say "fantastic job of knowing when to and when not to." in other words he sees it but likes something better not he cannot see it. Also the fact no sports media or other fans picked up on this tells me it is being misread. If he did say that and it was that clear as you are trying to make it sound it would be all over ESPN, CBS sports, etc, But again while he says he needs to see it he also says better option. In addition PC said hes got to see it, not he cannot see it, all QBs miss wr, or do not see them. Kap is well over 6 foot but in the NFCG he did not see a wide open Wr when he threw the ball to a well covered Crabtree, Luck 2 weeks ago in his press conference when asked about a wide open Wr he said he did nto see them and he is over 6 foot, for me that is he may not see it as open as others not he does not see it and again if that was what he meant you can bet every sports site would have run with it and none did. SO yeah mis reading between the lines no doubt

 

[Russ Willstrong]

I'm really wondering if Wilson's still on a leash in terms of throwing deep. I.E., either Bevell or Pete are telling him don't go deep unless the receiver's WIDE open.

Pete got that question on Wednesday and said they're still sending guys deep as often as they've ever done and that Russell just didn't see those guys. To me, Pete seemed in favor of more deep shots. He mentioned Russell does need to get the ball out faster. Interestingly, he made a comment that suggested that vision actually does seem to be an issue for Russell, though he accepts that because of all the other really special stuff he does. I thought it was interesting because I don't think I've ever heard Pete concede that before (basically acknowledging that his height is a factor in some regard).

Was I the only one who noticed that?

No you arent the only one, I heard it too, and I have heard Pete talk about how he likes to get Wilson a deep drop at times to help him see the field better. I have heard Holmgren and Millen say it also, about his limited sight with throwing lanes frome the pocket.

But what Pete said is exactly how I feel about Wilson, its obvious his limitations, but he does a lot of special things.

RW has been going to a 7 step drop more often not just to get a better view of the field but also for self-preservation. Teams have it in their game plan that he is short and vision is his weakness so they continue to make a concerted effort to get hands up at the LOS and to bring pressure up the middle. He beats this by moving the pocket not by stepping up into the pocket. Unfortunately our O line has not protected him well enough for him to drop back 3 steps, stand in the pocket and hit those slant patterns. The goal is not necessarily to do what every elite qb has been doing but to use his strengths and stay healthy doing it. Self-Preservation.