The case for retaining bobby

[sutz]

I don't think we answer this until we get a few weeks into FA and see how the draft shakes out. If Mac convinces JS to make a run at Queen, and/or we trade back for a 2d in the draft and pick up somebody solid, then let Bobby go. Otherwise, keep the phone lines open and see how much he will cost. I wouldn't sign him now unless Mac is really sold on keeping him in his scheme for a year or so. His vet presence could provide those intangibles that a new young coach might value more than just stats would show. But if he gets a good offer elsewhere, we can't really afford to get in a bidding war over him. The new cap helped out, but we have quite a bit to get done this offseason and certainly guys like Williams and Dre are higher priorities IMO.

 

[Appyhawk]

BWags can still play, just suffers in coverage. I would really like it if we could find someone to take his place on the field of play while he transforms into one of our coaching staff. I want him to be a Seahawk forever.

 

[Seahawker]

Baltimore declined Queen's 5th year option, he was originally going to be owed 12.7M in 24' if the Ravens had picked up his option.
The Ravens have recently drafted LBer Trenton Simpson and traded for LBer Roquan Smith.
John will need a large bag of pixie dust and a couple of four leaf clovers to pull this offseason off. Whoever JS brings in will be welcomed into the 12's/Hawks fold big-time.
We are pumped for this new era.

 

[Mistashoesta]

Bobby is a stud in the run game. No ifs, ands or buts about it. In coverage though, he is a liability. Some of that can be remedied with scheme. The truth of the matter is though unfortunately, father time is undefeated for a reason. Even for an all time great like Bobby.

"While Wagner did generate three pass breakups, his slowly diminishing athleticism continues to create coverage limitations for him at this stage of his career. Targeted 60 times by quarterbacks, he allowed 49 receptions for 515 yards, 332 yards after the catch, and two touchdowns without any interceptions. Tested often by opponents matched up against running backs and tight ends, he allowed a 113.5 passer rating in coverage, the highest passer rating allowed in 12 seasons as a pro."

Seahawks Final Report Card: Big Questions Loom For Bobby Wagner, Linebacker Corps

From a raw statistical standpoint, Bobby Wagner and Jordyn Brooks had strong seasons in the middle for the Seattle Seahawks. But the two veterans weren't completely exempt of blame when it comes to the team's 24th ranked scoring defense either.

www.si.com

 

[nanomoz]

The Rams and Niners exploit him so much in coverage. I love Bobby. I'm a USU Aggie alumnus. But it doesn't make sense if we're trying to build a team that can slow down McVay and Shanahan.

 

[JPatera76]

Bobby is a stud in the run game. Not ifs, ands or buts about it. In coverage though, he is a liability. Some of that can be remedied with scheme. The truth of the matter is though unfortunately, father time is undefeated for a reason. Even for an all time great like Bobby.

"While Wagner did generate three pass breakups, his slowly diminishing athleticism continues to create coverage limitations for him at this stage of his career. Targeted 60 times by quarterbacks, he allowed 49 receptions for 515 yards, 332 yards after the catch, and two touchdowns without any interceptions. Tested often by opponents matched up against running backs and tight ends, he allowed a 113.5 passer rating in coverage, the highest passer rating allowed in 12 seasons as a pro."

Seahawks Final Report Card: Big Questions Loom For Bobby Wagner, Linebacker Corps

From a raw statistical standpoint, Bobby Wagner and Jordyn Brooks had strong seasons in the middle for the Seattle Seahawks. But the two veterans weren't completely exempt of blame when it comes to the team's 24th ranked scoring defense either.

www.si.com

my counter arguement (and arm chair gm knowledge rofl) would say.. why or where is our FS or SS helping him. Seems to me a lot of times when they should've or were supposed to be there, they were often lost. Especially Diggs.

 

[IndyHawk]

BWags is done..
The way the game is played today you have to go cover a lot
and he hasn't been good at for a while now.
It's father time that favors nobody.

 

[DarkVictory23]

I don't think we answer this until we get a few weeks into FA and see how the draft shakes out. If Mac convinces JS to make a run at Queen, and/or we trade back for a 2d in the draft and pick up somebody solid, then let Bobby go. Otherwise, keep the phone lines open and see how much he will cost. I wouldn't sign him now unless Mac is really sold on keeping him in his scheme for a year or so. His vet presence could provide those intangibles that a new young coach might value more than just stats would show. But if he gets a good offer elsewhere, we can't really afford to get in a bidding war over him. The new cap helped out, but we have quite a bit to get done this offseason and certainly guys like Williams and Dre are higher priorities IMO.

Queen plays Brooks' spot, not Bobby's. If we go after Queen, it means we (probably) aren't resigning Brooks but wouldn't mean much for Wagner.

my counter arguement (and arm chair gm knowledge rofl) would say.. why or where is our FS or SS helping him. Seems to me a lot of times when they should've or were supposed to be there, they were often lost. Especially Diggs.

The thing is, Bobby is playing middle linebacker. He's got a section of the field he's responsible for and it doesn't matter if we're doing Cover 3 or a Fangio-style 2 high, there is a section of the field that has got to be his because if the Safety is worried about Wagner's section, than who is playing the Safeties spot?



A good example of what I'm referring to. (If the timestamp doesn't work, it starts at right around 29:45).

 

[JPatera76]

Queen plays Brooks' spot, not Bobby's. If we go after Queen, it means we (probably) aren't resigning Brooks but wouldn't mean much for Wagner.



The thing is, Bobby is playing middle linebacker. He's got a section of the field he's responsible for and it doesn't matter if we're doing Cover 3 or a Fangio-style 2 high, there is a section of the field that has got to be his because if the Safety is worried about Wagner's section, than who is playing the Safeties spot?



A good example of what I'm referring to. (If the timestamp doesn't work, it starts at right around 29:45).

Gotchya, thanks for that vid that's a good breakdown actually.

 

[Appyhawk]

Baltimore declined Queen's 5th year option, he was originally going to be owed 12.7M in 24' if the Ravens had picked up his option.
The Ravens have recently drafted LBer Trenton Simpson and traded for LBer Roquan Smith.
John will need a large bag of pixie dust and a couple of four leaf clovers to pull this offseason off. Whoever JS brings in will be welcomed into the 12's/Hawks fold big-time.
We are pumped for this new era.

Queen is my choice as FA pickup, but $$ will be a problem.
A big attraction to me on that is because he is a convert for Mac's system and would accelerate the speed at which we are able to implement it to good effect.

 

[Seahawker]

BWags is done..
The way the game is played today you have to go cover a lot
and he hasn't been good at for a while now.
It's father time that favors nobody.

Yes father time has taken some edge off but he was still voted a 2nd team All Pro.
Sure, maybe some voters showing respect for his body of work, but what younger MLBer deserved the votes more?
Not a good way to gauge Bobby's play to compare when KJ & Kam covered TE's vs the 2023 continual dumpster fire.
Not saying BW hasn't lost a step, he has but is still Serviceable. This is more about a diamond being surrounded by turds than the diamond returning to carbon.
I hope Bobby's legacy is not tarnished because he finished his career amidst inferiors who couldn't tackle.
I strongly hope John doesn't overpay for Queen and reaches a reasonable contract. This is how we got into this mess by overpaying FA's thinking it would put us over the top.
Ironic Wagner has drafted in the 2nd & we don't have a 2nd rounder to replace him because they used it to try to bolster the front 7 last year. Finger in the dyke.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Ok, how about 4m with incentives? Thatd be the extent of his hometown discount…

 

[flv2]

No-one dislikes Wagner and we all want to make excuses for him but in the last Cardinals game he was bad against the run as well as being weak against the pass. Yes, he was good in short yardage and he helped pressure the passer, but in the 2nd half of that game he was as much of the problem as the solution to the problem. Maybe it was a 1-off game, or an injury, or whatever. He's not an every situation every snap player any more and he's not going to get better. Bringing him back would be boosting a pension fund for a friend.

 

[Chukarhawk]

No-one dislikes Wagner and we all want to make excuses for him but in the last Cardinals game he was bad against the run as well as being weak against the pass. Yes, he was good in short yardage and he helped pressure the passer, but in the 2nd half of that game he was as much of the problem as the solution to the problem. Maybe it was a 1-off game, or an injury, or whatever. He's not an every situation every snap player any more and he's not going to get better. Bringing him back would be boosting a pension fund for a friend.

It's time. Rip the band aid off and move forward.