The sky isn't falling in Seattle -- and here's why

Sgt. Largent

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Popeyejones":1ju7bbie said:
Sgt. Largent":1ju7bbie said:
CamanoIslandJQ":1ju7bbie said:

Isn't this fair?

Ehh, I think it's a little unfair. There just haven't been that many NFL empires to begin with, and the Pats (and maaaybe the late 80s early 90s 9ers and 90s Cowboys) are the only NFL empires that have existed since the "players' coach" thing that "culture" is a code word for really started at all.

He objects to the label, but Tomlin has had a ton of sustained success as a players' coach, and so far Carroll has too.

Tomlin's also a my way or the highway hard ass, so not exactly a good comparison for Carroll.

We've had this conversation in other threads, is Pete's player philosophy as Sherman mocked it last year "Kumbyah" method of coaching sustainable once the veteran players on the roster get tired of hearing it?

Certainly a fair point by Cowherd, and unless we win another SB, a vindicated point.
 

SoulfishHawk

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I think Carroll is a lot more tough on the players than people think. He doesn't just let them run the show, and he certainly isn't scared to send players packing if they don't buy in.
 

Sgt. Largent

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SoulfishHawk":27vwez63 said:
I think Carroll is a lot more tough on the players than people think. He doesn't just let them run the show, and he certainly isn't scared to send players packing if they don't buy in.

I agree. Pete allows players to be themselves and be expressive.........but at his core he doesn't waver on things like positivity, team first, earn your position, competition, etc.

But maybe that allowing players to express themselves has led to too many distractions, and thus hurting the team on the field. I think that's what Cowherd's talking about.
 

Popeyejones

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Seahwkgal":hxlcadnu said:
All the dynasty teams before the cap kinda bought all the great talent and non of the other teams had a chance. This is why I do respect NE(even though they cheat :laugh: ). It is really, really hard and almost impossible for teams to create a dynasty with the salary cap. It comes down to coaching and culture in today's NFL, it really does.

I know this is the standard take these days, but when saying it I think people forget the history of the NFL a bit.

In the modern NFL true Free Agency only existed for one year before the salary cap was instituted: 1993. (I'm simplifying a little here, so see the bottom of the post for a fuller history).

Somehow everyone forgets that. Save for 1993 you couldn't "buy" a championship because their weren't free agents to "buy", and starting in '94 there was a salary cap.

Instead, save for that one year, pre-salary cap organizational culture was MUCH more important than it has ever been since then.

You had to rely almost entirely on the draft if you wanted to win, and your players had to buy into the organizational culture to keep them improving and competitive.

It's why guys like Al Davis and Eddie DeBartolo (who even then were pretty poor by NFL owner standards) found sustained success by 1) getting lucky in the draft, 2) having the right coaches, and 3) creating organizational cultures that players bought into (Al Davis and the whole Raider's Way/Just Win, Baby thing, and DeBartolo by treating his players better than anyone else did it at the time by lavishing little perks on them because he knew he couldn't actually afford to pay them).

In any case, the thing that really made the building of dynasties MUCH harder was the institution of free agency in 1993, not the institution of the salary cap in 1994. They both matter obviously, but for some reason everyone always talks about the salary cap when it was the lesser of two changes.

TL;DR the whole "pre-salary cap buying championships" story has never made any sense for the NFL, because there was only one year in NFL history with free agency and no salary cap. It makes a ton of sense in MLB where you had free agency and no salary cap for a really long time (and still just have no salary cap and luxury tax that people practically never get to anyway), but porting that story over to the NFL ignores the actual history of the NFL.

FREE AGENCY HISTORY:

1921-1947: "Reserve Rule" -- Teams could keep players on the annual value of the original dollar contract they signed for as long as they wanted.

1948-1962: N/A -- The reserve rule was found illegal, but no players actually switched teams without their original teams approval.

1963-1975 : "Rozelle Rule" -- In reaction to RC Owens leaving the 9ers for the Colts as a free agent, a new rule was instituted that in the case of a free agent move the commissioner got to decide what was fair value for the player that wanted to play for a new team, and give the player's old team fair compensation from his new team (you could sign away a player, but if you did so Rozelle would take your draft picks at his discretion and give them to the team you got the player from)

1976-1987: No free agency. The Rozelle Rule had been struck down by the courts but this period was basically still the same thing as the Rozelle Rule, if even a little farther away from free agency: Teams have right of first refusal on resigining all their players, and are awarded compensation even if they don't take their right of first refusal.

1989-1992: "Plan B" -- Teams get to pick 37 players on their roster each year who aren't exposed to free agency (not really free agency you can build a team around, as teams obviously just keep their 37 best players ever year).

1993-Present: "Free Agency" as we know it today, with various adjustments with each new CBA (e.g. "fifth year option", etc.)
 

Sports Hernia

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Popeyejones":2qak47mi said:
FWIW, beyond some Hawks fans and the occasional 9ers fan who is way too stuck in the past, I don't think anyone actually thinks the sky is falling in Seattle, or the Seahawks are on the verge of falling.

It's a nice framing device for La Canfora for sure, but I don't think it's really based in reality (it's why he starts by asserting that there's some type of annual prediction about the Seahawks falling apart, but doesn't actually link to anyone ever making that claim -- maybe it's out there but I read a ton of national NFL news and I've seriously never seen it before).

Instead, I think the national impression of the Hawks is that they're a really good team which is in the Super Bowl hunt year in and year out, but in being really good they're also pretty fascinating as they really seem to ride the razor's edge of chaos.

It's a neat and interesting story because there's a belief that riding that edge is a big part of what makes them so great, but at the same time for national reporters and fans of every other team in the NFL, it seems like there's almost always *something* going on with the Hawks that's kinda nuts.

When people talk about that they're not talking about the Hawks being on the verge of collapse (again, I've literally never seen that argument made in print by a national reporter, but if someone said that once I'm sure I'll be linked to it), but rather, they're kind of speculating that if the Hawks ever DO decline at all it might be a factor in it.

That's not people being haters, it's people being fascinated about a thing that's actually pretty fascinating about a really, really good team like the Seahawks.

I think this is the key paragraph in La Canfora's piece:

Except, well, I'm not buying it. I'm not disputing that there isn't a unique and somewhat bizarre culture in Seattle, and that the protocols certainly wouldn't work everywhere. But it has worked well enough, long enough, for this group that I'm not betting against them yet.

After circling around the point and trying to write it away he basically owns up to agreeing that there IS a "unique and somewhat bizzarre culture in Seattle," but uses that admission to suggest that the unnamed everyone-else who acknowledges it do so to argue for the Hawks' impending demise. It's that second point -- that in talking about how atypically newsy the Hawks seem to always be people are actually predicting their demise -- which I think is a strawman. I simply just don't see that stuff. The CLOSEST I see to it is variations on the statement "things seem to still be kinda crazy up in Seattle, but it hasn't stopped them yet so there's no reason to think it will now."

Basically, I think La Canfora's trying to pitch his position as a contrarian position, but it's actually the standard position from which national reporters talk about the Seahawks.
Been to your home forum lately? According to The denialzone, Seattle is circling the drain.
 

Popeyejones

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Read the very first sentence on the post you quoted. :lol:
 
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Jville

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The Sky isn't falling .....
cst34_ek2v1988.jpg
....... we're good :2thumbs:
 
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