The stat that will hold us back: 1005 yards

Scottemojo

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plyka":2ux5sb6y said:
253hawk":2ux5sb6y said:
Yeah, I mean is this *really* necessary on a punter? Dude better get a fat fine for that.

827808429.gif

I think there is some confusion regarding this penalty. It only (should only, but refs are stupid sometimes) takes place on a "defenseless receiver" or a QB in the pocket. If the QB is running with the ball, you can have a helmet to helmet hit. If a WR is running with the ball, you can have a helmet to helmet hit. If you are blocking someone, you can have a helmet to helmet hit. This is why Sherman was so pissed off that they gave him a penalty for hitting that WRs deep in the endzone a few weeks back. He thought Brees was running, and thus it was ok to hit the WRs as the WRs would be "blocking him."

The punter in the Cincinnati game was fair play. The Steeler player was blocking him, so it's not possible to have a helmet to helmet penalty.
Bet you he gets fined under the same rule that got Golden dinged. Twice.
 

twisted_steel2

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plyka":1b65ijek said:
253hawk":1b65ijek said:
Yeah, I mean is this *really* necessary on a punter? Dude better get a fat fine for that.

827808429.gif

I think there is some confusion regarding this penalty. It only (should only, but refs are stupid sometimes) takes place on a "defenseless receiver" or a QB in the pocket. If the QB is running with the ball, you can have a helmet to helmet hit. If a WR is running with the ball, you can have a helmet to helmet hit. If you are blocking someone, you can have a helmet to helmet hit. This is why Sherman was so pissed off that they gave him a penalty for hitting that WRs deep in the endzone a few weeks back. He thought Brees was running, and thus it was ok to hit the WRs as the WRs would be "blocking him."

The punter in the Cincinnati game was fair play. The Steeler player was blocking him, so it's not possible to have a helmet to helmet penalty.

Are you sure? I still don't think it's legal to lower your helmet and hit them with the crown of the helmet in the face...

Interesting:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -on-huber/

Punters and kickers at all times fall within the definition of defenseless players. This means that they can’t be struck by an opponent with a helmet or in the head or neck area.

In this specific case, Garvin hit Huber with a helmet in the head, breaking Huber’s jaw (and cracked a vertebrae). A flag should have been thrown.
 

Missing_Clink

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AbsolutNET":2b7y9eyd said:
Penalties against a very good team? We lost.

Penalties against the Giants? Not a big deal.

We can't expect to win playoff games easily with 8 or 9 penalties, especially the kind that give the D free plays or kill big plays on our side. I don't think anyone here is complaining about calls against our secondary now and then, its the silly procedural flags and holds that hurt. Hawks had 2 false starts and 2 off sides yesterday (and one off side that was given to us with a horrible baiting call on Eli). Thurmond bailed us out on one with a pick after we gave them free downs, and one cost us 4 points. Those could be big deals against teams that are capable of staying close.

It's easy to say "12-2" but it would be nice to be able to examine things in a vacuum around here once in a while.

I agree. Beating bad teams despite penalties is one thing, but its crazy to think the Hawks don't need to worry about getting a rash of bad penalties against good playoff teams. The odds are just against them when that starts to happen...and it doesn't need to happen. Can you imagine thinking you have a big stop against the Broncos on 3rd down in the superbowl, only to give them a 1st because of some stupid penalty? Thats devastating. Good teams make you pay. The Hawks cannot keep doing it in the playoffs. Eventually, it will bite them in the ass.
 

BamKam

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The way we play we will always be up there in the league with most penalties.
 

chrispy

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Scottemojo":1mo3w7n3 said:
chrispy":1mo3w7n3 said:
I think there are aspects to talk about:

1)Tate has been called for offensive PI a few times over the last few games. Is the aggressive nature of our DBs having an impact on our receivers? ... and might that show in offensive penalties?

2)With the understanding that the SuperBowl is the most watched program on TV, and watched by potential new fans, new advertisers, new sponsors to the League, how different will that game be called? Will the aggressive nature of the team need more adjustment because the game is being called tighter?

3)With depth at CB, can substitutions help to manage penalties depending on the situation? Might pulling Browner and subbing Thurmond/Lane save a penalty on a key down just because of reputation? (not because of actual contact/press, just reputation)

4)Is the OL jumping offsides as acceptable as a PI call on Sherman? How does that coaching staff manage that disparity: praising our DBs for being aggressive and scolding the OL for being undisciplined?
1. Provide specifics. I recall Tate being called for OPI twice this year. Not a few times over the last few games. Please correct me if I am wrong.
2. The crew last year was handpicked specifically because they would let players play. It really benefitted the Ravens. And the Niners. Both heavily penalized teams last year.
3. That seems kind of silly. And Browner or Maxwell, either one is going to be grabby. Reputation aside, play the best players. End of story.
4. Offensive linemen false starting is is a procedural issue, and it is the only real consistent penalty problem we have had. False starts, bad hand placement that results in holds, clock issues, those are the ones that have hamstrung the offense. Your complaints about aggressive coverage resulting in a PI call are kind of hollow when that very aggression is what leads to turnovers. THere is some take the good with the bad in that area.

I'm not trying to argue here. All of my points ended in question marks. I'm asking. I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

I thought I remembered Tate had a few penalties. I looked it up and he was called once over the last 2 games. Maybe the other one was on someone else. Don't recall. My point was that there is some level of acceptable contact during practice and maybe that impacts both offense and defense.

That's great for last year. We know that officiating has been an issue in the big game. We are the most penalized team in the league. Potentially that could play a part in the outcome.

There's some debate here whom the best player is currently for the #2 CB.

I've never complained about aggressive coverage. My point here is that I can see how it would be difficult to address penalties from a coaching standpoint when we're agreeing that some penalties, in some cases, are acceptable. Academically, it's easy to say, "procedural penalties are unacceptable but coverage penalties come with the territory" but if I'm Tom Cable it's tough to enforce that double standard.

I'm sorry if I offended you with my questions. I'm not trying to start an argument. I'm happy to keep my questions to myself next time.
 

253hawk

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Tate's 'OPI' against SF was complete bull, for the record. He stopped hard on his route because he only needed to get to the 1st down marker and the DB sailed on by. But because Tate's arms were out, it looked like a shove and drew a flag.
 

amill87

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With a few exceptions every once and awhile, the refs usually (yes I know) let more things slide come playoff time.

Tate's OPI probably wouldn't be called in the playoffs. If we play a game like we did yesterday in the playoffs, I'm ok with that. What really kills us is the 15 yarders and pass interference.
 

Sgt. Largent

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chrispy":3nf1d8ua said:
I've never complained about aggressive coverage. My point here is that I can see how it would be difficult to address penalties from a coaching standpoint when we're agreeing that some penalties, in some cases, are acceptable. Academically, it's easy to say, "procedural penalties are unacceptable but coverage penalties come with the territory" but if I'm Tom Cable it's tough to enforce that double standard..

But it's not tough for Pete and Tom to enforce it.

Penalties like defensive holding, personal foul for targeting defenseless receivers, late hits, etc. are not good either, but they do serve a purpose. That purpose is to show the other team that we're going to hold you, push you, hit you and bully you until we break your will. That's WHY Pete says things in his pressers like "well that's acceptable because that's how we coach our players to play that."

Stupid procedural penalties like false starts don't serve any other purpose other than to stall drives and prevent the offense from getting into a rhythm.
 

Scottemojo

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chrispy":sd5ypgdt said:
Scottemojo":sd5ypgdt said:
chrispy":sd5ypgdt said:
I think there are aspects to talk about:

1)Tate has been called for offensive PI a few times over the last few games. Is the aggressive nature of our DBs having an impact on our receivers? ... and might that show in offensive penalties?

2)With the understanding that the SuperBowl is the most watched program on TV, and watched by potential new fans, new advertisers, new sponsors to the League, how different will that game be called? Will the aggressive nature of the team need more adjustment because the game is being called tighter?

3)With depth at CB, can substitutions help to manage penalties depending on the situation? Might pulling Browner and subbing Thurmond/Lane save a penalty on a key down just because of reputation? (not because of actual contact/press, just reputation)

4)Is the OL jumping offsides as acceptable as a PI call on Sherman? How does that coaching staff manage that disparity: praising our DBs for being aggressive and scolding the OL for being undisciplined?
1. Provide specifics. I recall Tate being called for OPI twice this year. Not a few times over the last few games. Please correct me if I am wrong.
2. The crew last year was handpicked specifically because they would let players play. It really benefitted the Ravens. And the Niners. Both heavily penalized teams last year.
3. That seems kind of silly. And Browner or Maxwell, either one is going to be grabby. Reputation aside, play the best players. End of story.
4. Offensive linemen false starting is is a procedural issue, and it is the only real consistent penalty problem we have had. False starts, bad hand placement that results in holds, clock issues, those are the ones that have hamstrung the offense. Your complaints about aggressive coverage resulting in a PI call are kind of hollow when that very aggression is what leads to turnovers. THere is some take the good with the bad in that area.

I'm not trying to argue here. All of my points ended in question marks. I'm asking. I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

I thought I remembered Tate had a few penalties. I looked it up and he was called once over the last 2 games. Maybe the other one was on someone else. Don't recall. My point was that there is some level of acceptable contact during practice and maybe that impacts both offense and defense.

That's great for last year. We know that officiating has been an issue in the big game. We are the most penalized team in the league. Potentially that could play a part in the outcome.

There's some debate here whom the best player is currently for the #2 CB.

I've never complained about aggressive coverage. My point here is that I can see how it would be difficult to address penalties from a coaching standpoint when we're agreeing that some penalties, in some cases, are acceptable. Academically, it's easy to say, "procedural penalties are unacceptable but coverage penalties come with the territory" but if I'm Tom Cable it's tough to enforce that double standard.

I'm sorry if I offended you with my questions. I'm not trying to start an argument. I'm happy to keep my questions to myself next time.

My apologies.
 

RiverDog

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BamKam":3qa0s06s said:
The way we play we will always be up there in the league with most penalties.

I don't agree. We don't have to be leading the league due to our style of play.

Of our 112 penalties, 40 are pre snap. Indy has 15 pre snap penalties. Green Bay, with their starting quarterback out for roughly half the season, has 25. Minnesota, a team that has had 3 starting quarterbacks, has 23. In addition to us, teams with 40 or more pre snap penalties are Cleveland, the Jets, Jacksonville, and Oakland, all losing teams with quarterback issues. We do not have those same issues. We don't have to be among the lead leaders in penalties simply because of our style of play. Many of these penalties are correctable if they are given proper attention, and quite frankly, listening to Pete defend them as "something we need to clean up" indicates to me that it isn't being given much of a priority.

http://www.nflpenalties.com/
 

HawkWow

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plyka":308olzog said:
253hawk":308olzog said:
Yeah, I mean is this *really* necessary on a punter? Dude better get a fat fine for that.

827808429.gif

I think there is some confusion regarding this penalty. It only (should only, but refs are stupid sometimes) takes place on a "defenseless receiver" or a QB in the pocket. If the QB is running with the ball, you can have a helmet to helmet hit. If a WR is running with the ball, you can have a helmet to helmet hit. If you are blocking someone, you can have a helmet to helmet hit. This is why Sherman was so pissed off that they gave him a penalty for hitting that WRs deep in the endzone a few weeks back. He thought Brees was running, and thus it was ok to hit the WRs as the WRs would be "blocking him."

The punter in the Cincinnati game was fair play. The Steeler player was blocking him, so it's not possible to have a helmet to helmet penalty.

For me, that hit was the epitome of unnecessary roughness. It was a frikin' punter for Christ's sake. Just get in his way, take him out of the play.. He is out of his element and I see no reason to try to kill a punter. Anyone that would relish such an act probably also beats his GF. Not only did he "light him up" and broke his jaw, he also broke a bone in his damn neck.

I'd like the chance to do the same to that punkass Steeler that went out of his way to injure this man. Football is not the arena for such cheap-shot shit. The tackler is looking right at the punter and sees he is defenseless, seeing the opportunity, he committed what I would describe as 2nd degree assault. $100k and a 1 game suspension, thinks me. And I hope he falls down a flight of stairs and breaks his own neck sometime soon.
 
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