Thoughts on McShay's latest mock for Seattle?

[McGruff]

I don't want Henry he takes time to get going his 10 yard split is soooo freaking slow.

See this is the kind of stuff that gets me. It's okay to say he isn't explosive. But to make him sound like a sloth is disingenuous and just untrue.

Henry's 1.6 second sit is.04 seconds owe than Tyler Ervin, .03 slower than Kenneth Dixon, .02 slower than Ezekiel Elliot. That hundredths of a second. That's the time it takes to type one letter on your keyboard. One keystroke.

He's a bit slower than ideal in his acceleration. It's a fair and valid concern. But let's not exaggerate it.

 

[Atradees]

Running backs can be had as undrafted free agents and we have Rawls.

Its to high for a RB on this team. It would be like getting a TE when we have Graham.(in the second)

LeRaven Clark has amazing hand size and arm length. He will need some time to improve at this level. Clark is not a tweener guard prospect. Natural build for a left tackle. He was also very healthy. I like this pick....doubt he lasts till 90 something.

I would take Whitehair and Clark. Sandwhich a DT in there somewhere depending on how the board falls. Nemdemeeche(?) in the third?(high risk player)

LeRaven Clark
Cody Whitehair
Patrick Lewis
Glowinski
Gilliam

Sprinkle in Sowell, Britt and Webb for competition.

In a dream at least. We will probably get some dudes I never heard of.

I like the Pats DT we signed. Wont risk spellin his name. Offsets the need for a first overall at DT.

 

[Northwest Seahawk]

Billings is a guy you can plug and play at the 1T for probably the next five to ten years and be above average at that position. I'd take Billings over Bullard we really don't need a 3T not in the first and Billings is the more physical presence . I really hope they don't pass on Billings for Ifedi who I like but may or may not be a long term answer on that O-line. Billings is one of the best players in the First round imo as far as a player you can count on to come in and have an immediate impact at his position. I'd much rather take Floyd than Bullard if they want a more versatile DT .

Floyd isn't a DT and never will be.

The thing with a player like Billings is that run stuffing DT'S are pretty easy to find. You can get them up and down the draft and for cheap in free agency every year. I don't think there is a great deal of difference in production between Billings and, say, DJ Reader from Clemson or Austin Johnson from Penn State or Hassan Ridgeway from Texas.

But pass rushing DT'S are a rare commodity, and you accept the risk that comes with trying to get one. If you can get 5 to 7 sacks and timely pressure for 4 to 5 years from a rookie contract n a DT, you take it when you can get it, because that is a $15 million dollar a year skill set on the open market.

I meant Rankins not Floyd anyway much prefer Billings over Bullard . Billings and Rankins a probably gone before 26 unless there's a run on O-lineman anyway.

 

[bjornanderson21]

JMO but when I watch Henry I see a guy who is decisive and explodes at the LOS.

And who are these better athletes?

https://3sigmaathlete.com/rankings/rb/

At 240 pounds, Henry is in the top 5, with the only guys above him being unproven small conference players with glaring weaknesses.

The prevailing notion among evaluators is that Derrick Henry lacks explosiveness and agility. Five anonymous NFL executives were asked to make a player comparison for Derrick Henry. Three of them said Brandon Jacobs, one of them said Eddie Lacy, and the remaining GM said LaGarrette Blount. An NFC RB coach compared him to Marion Butts. All physically impressive runners, but none them are agile or explosive. Former NFL RB Merrill Hoge added to this line of thinking by directly stating that Henry lacks the "spontaneous agility" to succeed in every scheme in the NFL.

I don't always agree with NFL consensus but in this case I do. While Henry possesses a freakish vert and broad jump for a person his size, the end result of all that leg power is only a 1.61 ten yard split. To put that number in comparison:

Christine Michael: 1.49
Marshawn Lynch : 1.53
Robert Turbin: 1.57
Michael Robinson: 1.61
Spencer Ware: 1.65

Henry's 10 yard split is in the same range as fullbacks and sluggish RBs.

This shows on tape too. He can reach scary high speeds but is only worth using if the team around him is skilled enough to make sure he never touches anything. Every time I see Henry get bottled up or someone grabs his ankle for a second behind the LOS, it seems like he is almost always swarmed over and tackled right after. His top speed is excellent, but he has to be unfettered to reach it. If he were a Mario Kart character, he'd be Bowser.

For the right team, he's a great pick. However, I tend to think Seattle is the perfectly wrong team barring big changes in the OL. I don't think Seattle is lying about their interest in Henry, but I think this is one of those cases where they look at his physical size and traits and can't help but drool, even if his actual fit in the offense is dubious.

Thumbs up for:

A) reminding me Merrill Hoge was a RB
B) using Mario Kart to compare a RB

 

[Hasselbeck]

JMO but when I watch Henry I see a guy who is decisive and explodes at the LOS.

And who are these better athletes?

https://3sigmaathlete.com/rankings/rb/

At 240 pounds, Henry is in the top 5, with the only guys above him being unproven small conference players with glaring weaknesses.

The prevailing notion among evaluators is that Derrick Henry lacks explosiveness and agility. Five anonymous NFL executives were asked to make a player comparison for Derrick Henry. Three of them said Brandon Jacobs, one of them said Eddie Lacy, and the remaining GM said LaGarrette Blount. An NFC RB coach compared him to Marion Butts. All physically impressive runners, but none them are agile or explosive. Former NFL RB Merrill Hoge added to this line of thinking by directly stating that Henry lacks the "spontaneous agility" to succeed in every scheme in the NFL.

I don't always agree with NFL consensus but in this case I do. While Henry possesses a freakish vert and broad jump for a person his size, the end result of all that leg power is only a 1.61 ten yard split. To put that number in comparison:

Christine Michael: 1.49
Marshawn Lynch : 1.53
Robert Turbin: 1.57
Michael Robinson: 1.61
Spencer Ware: 1.65

Henry's 10 yard split is in the same range as fullbacks and sluggish RBs.

This shows on tape too. He can reach scary high speeds but is only worth using if the team around him is skilled enough to make sure he never touches anything. Every time I see Henry get bottled up or someone grabs his ankle for a second behind the LOS, it seems like he is almost always swarmed over and tackled right after. His top speed is excellent, but he has to be unfettered to reach it. If he were a Mario Kart character, he'd be Bowser.

For the right team, he's a great pick. However, I tend to think Seattle is the perfectly wrong team barring big changes in the OL. I don't think Seattle is lying about their interest in Henry, but I think this is one of those cases where they look at his physical size and traits and can't help but drool, even if his actual fit in the offense is dubious.

Waking up in the middle of the night now, and this actually makes sense.

I guess I read "slow to the LOS" and interpreted that as tentative. Shaun Alexander was slow to the LOS. While I see some similarities between Shaun and Henry, that wasn't one. Henry isn't tentative. But the build up speed is a real deal with Henry.

I guess part of me gets frustrated because I see Henry being pigeon holed and pre judged on the basis of the team he played for. Not saying you, kearly, are doing that, but others seem to be. Becuase he had a great line, he either sucks or needs to go to a team with a great line. Kinda like Russell Wilson isn't good becuase he has a run game and defense to make him look good. No, Russell Wilson is good with or without those things, but they certainly help. Same goes with Henry. He's good regardless.

I do think it's hard to project how he would do in less favor let circumstances, becuase he's never had to face them consistently. He's never been hit in the backfield 2 out of every 5 snaps. But with the possible long term changes in our scheme from a pure power game to a more spread out offense, I wonder if that changes things. I think holes were there for Rawls becuase of the changes made in the offensive game planning, and I suspect they would be there for Henry as well. But it is a bit of a projection.

But I do suspect Attyla is right on the money, and it why I stick with my tougher version. Of Shaun Alexander comparison. The style is different, but the rsult would be similar IMO. A few more losses off set by a few more 60 yard home runs.

I thin it's the big play ability that has Carroll intrigued. Carroll loves big plays.

In 2015 Henry had nearly 400 touches...

And 7 broken tackles.

7.

Everything kearly says, plus the workload, plus him being unable to break away from a defender that gets to him immediately in the backfield is exactly why I hope to every football God in existence that JS steers wayyyyyyy away from Derrick Henry. Maybe he blossoms into a great back somewhere else, that's fine, in Seattle I am fully convinced he would simply not work barring this OL transforming into something that no one expects it to be.

Rawls works in this offense because he's explosive right out of the gate. Henry is a guy that hits top speed when he's in the open field against LB's and CB's .. thats Shaun Alexander 2.0 and you know what GREATLY helped Alexander's career? The best OL in team history.

We need a guy close in running style to Thomas Rawls. That is not Derrick Henry. Not even close.

 

[ImTheScientist]

We need a guy close in running style to Thomas Rawls. That is not Derrick Henry. Not even close.

Keith Marshall.

 

[CPHawk]

I really feel like I must be going crazy when everyone I respect hates the prospect I love, and has such ly wildly different perceptions. Usually that means I must be wrong, but every time I watch someone play against Alabama, I come away stunned by how great Henry is. That's not my intent, it just keeps happening.

I loved Henry at Alabama too. He caught my eye immediately.

Henry's top speed is definitely impressive. Here are the 40 times when you factor out the initial 10 yards:

Robert Turbin 2.85
Derrick Henry 2.93
Marshawn Lynch 2.93
Christine Michael 2.94

(I left Thomas Rawls off the list since he wasn't healthy when he ran)

I just think that for Seattle, with all the chaos of Tom Cable's running system, you need a back who is very quick in the first 10 yards and also has excellent balance and agility. Those are the weak areas of Henry's game.

I do think he could be good in the NFL. He just needs to find the NFL's version of Alabama's OL and system. If he goes to a team similar to the 2014 Cowboys that opens up big holes, Henry would be a star.

The thing that actually worries me about Henry, is his tiny hands. How's he going to hold onto the ball if and when he gets hit as soon as he's handed the ball?