Tre Flowers

[Jville]

I trust the process.

And, Tre is only going to benefit from continued practice against a rapidly improving wide receiver corp.

But, it's a time honored cliche to look at every year as a good year to draft a defensive back.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I think he needs another year. We've been spoiled by seeing CBs of all skill level come in here and thrive because the rest of the defense has been solid, but lately we don't have that so these young guys are exposed a little more.

My only criticism for flowers is - when you've obviously committed blatant PI, stop looking around and using body language like you're being victimized by the refs. If you can't admit your own faults you won't improve.

Two full years as a starter is long enough to evaluate a player.

Flower's IMO is not the answer at CB for us, not the way we like to play defense. He's a bottom 10 CB in the league, and that position needs to be addressed and upgraded if possible next year.

He not only gets too many penalties, he doesn't make plays either. It'd be worth putting up with the penalties if he had 6-7 interceptions a year, or damn dude just make a damn play on the ball once in a while.

We gotta ride him the rest of the way, but I'd be shocked if Pete and John are OK with Flowers as our starting CB if they have the ability to upgrade his position next off season either through the draft or free agency.

I disagree 100%. Two years is enough time to see? Most players pick it up by year 4. In all fairness most players in the 90s didnt start for 3 years. Ppl give up on players too quick anymore. Its instant gratification on what the world has become.

Tre is struggling this yr. 64th best CB. However last yr he was 2nd best run stuffing cb in the whole league. Last year Shaq was 111th out of 112 cb and this year he is top 20.

Tre if given time will end with more interceptions in his career then shaq.

Please give me an example of a CB we've had under Pete that took over two years to be good?

Browner, Maxwell, Sherman, Griffin, Earl, Kam, Lane, Thurmond etc............we knew within a year what we were getting with these guys.

Conversely Hill, Thompson,Smith, Simon, etc we knew what we were getting with these guys within a year or two as well.......and it's not good.

I'd put Flowers in the latter category, not the former. He's got some physical skills, but IMO he's never going to be more than a bottom tier DB, and that's not good enough for this defense. We can do better.

 

[toffee]

If the experiment at CB2 fails, could he be answer at safety?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Shanegotyou11]

I think he needs another year. We've been spoiled by seeing CBs of all skill level come in here and thrive because the rest of the defense has been solid, but lately we don't have that so these young guys are exposed a little more.

My only criticism for flowers is - when you've obviously committed blatant PI, stop looking around and using body language like you're being victimized by the refs. If you can't admit your own faults you won't improve.

Two full years as a starter is long enough to evaluate a player.

Flower's IMO is not the answer at CB for us, not the way we like to play defense. He's a bottom 10 CB in the league, and that position needs to be addressed and upgraded if possible next year.

He not only gets too many penalties, he doesn't make plays either. It'd be worth putting up with the penalties if he had 6-7 interceptions a year, or damn dude just make a damn play on the ball once in a while.

We gotta ride him the rest of the way, but I'd be shocked if Pete and John are OK with Flowers as our starting CB if they have the ability to upgrade his position next off season either through the draft or free agency.

I disagree 100%. Two years is enough time to see? Most players pick it up by year 4. In all fairness most players in the 90s didnt start for 3 years. Ppl give up on players too quick anymore. Its instant gratification on what the world has become.

Tre is struggling this yr. 64th best CB. However last yr he was 2nd best run stuffing cb in the whole league. Last year Shaq was 111th out of 112 cb and this year he is top 20.

Tre if given time will end with more interceptions in his career then shaq.

Please give me an example of a CB we've had under Pete that took over two years to be good?

Browner, Maxwell, Sherman, Griffin, Earl, Kam, Lane, Thurmond etc............we knew within a year what we were getting with these guys.

Conversely Hill, Thompson,Smith, Simon, etc we knew what we were getting with these guys within a year or two as well.......and it's not good.

I'd put Flowers in the latter category, not the former. He's got some physical skills, but IMO he's never going to be more than a bottom tier DB, and that's not good enough for this defense. We can do better.

I will give you one. Its on other side of flowers right now. He sucked last yr and was decent in year 1. He is now playing good.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fieldg ... all22-tape

How about shead?


Ppl quit too much on players unless they are gods right away. Its why ppl wanna crown great 1st year players as goats.

 

[Northwest Seahawk]

Well he's in for a tough matchup against Rogers he will be throwing his way often I would think. Initially I thought Flowers was going to turn into a good CB . I'm not sure that's the case anymore. He keeps making the same mistakes over and over . They need to have a viable alternative ready he keeps making these mistakes next season.

 

[StoneCold]

I think he needs another year. We've been spoiled by seeing CBs of all skill level come in here and thrive because the rest of the defense has been solid, but lately we don't have that so these young guys are exposed a little more.

My only criticism for flowers is - when you've obviously committed blatant PI, stop looking around and using body language like you're being victimized by the refs. If you can't admit your own faults you won't improve.

Two full years as a starter is long enough to evaluate a player.

Flower's IMO is not the answer at CB for us, not the way we like to play defense. He's a bottom 10 CB in the league, and that position needs to be addressed and upgraded if possible next year.

He not only gets too many penalties, he doesn't make plays either. It'd be worth putting up with the penalties if he had 6-7 interceptions a year, or damn dude just make a damn play on the ball once in a while.

We gotta ride him the rest of the way, but I'd be shocked if Pete and John are OK with Flowers as our starting CB if they have the ability to upgrade his position next off season either through the draft or free agency.

I disagree 100%. Two years is enough time to see? Most players pick it up by year 4. In all fairness most players in the 90s didnt start for 3 years. Ppl give up on players too quick anymore. Its instant gratification on what the world has become.

Tre is struggling this yr. 64th best CB. However last yr he was 2nd best run stuffing cb in the whole league. Last year Shaq was 111th out of 112 cb and this year he is top 20.

Tre if given time will end with more interceptions in his career then shaq.

Please give me an example of a CB we've had under Pete that took over two years to be good?

Browner, Maxwell, Sherman, Griffin, Earl, Kam, Lane, Thurmond etc............we knew within a year what we were getting with these guys.

Conversely Hill, Thompson,Smith, Simon, etc we knew what we were getting with these guys within a year or two as well.......and it's not good.

I'd put Flowers in the latter category, not the former. He's got some physical skills, but IMO he's never going to be more than a bottom tier DB, and that's not good enough for this defense. We can do better.

I'd be more concerned if Flowers was getting beat deep. I see 3 areas he can improve. 1. He plays too far off underneath routes and allows them to get 7 or 8 yards. 2. When he plays tight he too often gets called for PI. 3. On deep routes he needs to get his head around and play the ball. 1 and 3 are a matter of trusting yourself, and 2 is about technique. He makes enough plays that I see the possibility he gets it in year 3. That said coaches who see him in practice everyday would truly know better than us couch mavens.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

https://nationalfootballpost.com/how-lo ... n-the-nfl/

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Two full years as a starter is long enough to evaluate a player.

Flower's IMO is not the answer at CB for us, not the way we like to play defense. He's a bottom 10 CB in the league, and that position needs to be addressed and upgraded if possible next year.

He not only gets too many penalties, he doesn't make plays either. It'd be worth putting up with the penalties if he had 6-7 interceptions a year, or damn dude just make a damn play on the ball once in a while.

We gotta ride him the rest of the way, but I'd be shocked if Pete and John are OK with Flowers as our starting CB if they have the ability to upgrade his position next off season either through the draft or free agency.

I disagree 100%. Two years is enough time to see? Most players pick it up by year 4. In all fairness most players in the 90s didnt start for 3 years. Ppl give up on players too quick anymore. Its instant gratification on what the world has become.

Tre is struggling this yr. 64th best CB. However last yr he was 2nd best run stuffing cb in the whole league. Last year Shaq was 111th out of 112 cb and this year he is top 20.

Tre if given time will end with more interceptions in his career then shaq.

Please give me an example of a CB we've had under Pete that took over two years to be good?

Browner, Maxwell, Sherman, Griffin, Earl, Kam, Lane, Thurmond etc............we knew within a year what we were getting with these guys.

Conversely Hill, Thompson,Smith, Simon, etc we knew what we were getting with these guys within a year or two as well.......and it's not good.

I'd put Flowers in the latter category, not the former. He's got some physical skills, but IMO he's never going to be more than a bottom tier DB, and that's not good enough for this defense. We can do better.

I will give you one. Its on other side of flowers right now. He sucked last yr and was decent in year 1. He is now playing good.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fieldg ... all22-tape

How about shead?


Ppl quit too much on players unless they are gods right away. Its why ppl wanna crown great 1st year players as goats.

Shead is a very good comp for Flowers, another CB that had a couple years to develop, and never did enough for us to seriously consider him the long term answer opposite our #1 CB. Thus his departure.

Griffin never sucked. Bad example.

CB's in Pete's defense need to be playmakers, difference makers.........Flowers is neither of those, and IMO never will be. I'm perfectly fine with him being on the roster through the rest of his rookie contract as he's a good backup and he's cheap.

But as a starter? Nope.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I think he needs another year. We've been spoiled by seeing CBs of all skill level come in here and thrive because the rest of the defense has been solid, but lately we don't have that so these young guys are exposed a little more.

My only criticism for flowers is - when you've obviously committed blatant PI, stop looking around and using body language like you're being victimized by the refs. If you can't admit your own faults you won't improve.

Two full years as a starter is long enough to evaluate a player.

Flower's IMO is not the answer at CB for us, not the way we like to play defense. He's a bottom 10 CB in the league, and that position needs to be addressed and upgraded if possible next year.

He not only gets too many penalties, he doesn't make plays either. It'd be worth putting up with the penalties if he had 6-7 interceptions a year, or damn dude just make a damn play on the ball once in a while.

We gotta ride him the rest of the way, but I'd be shocked if Pete and John are OK with Flowers as our starting CB if they have the ability to upgrade his position next off season either through the draft or free agency.

I disagree 100%. Two years is enough time to see? Most players pick it up by year 4. In all fairness most players in the 90s didnt start for 3 years. Ppl give up on players too quick anymore. Its instant gratification on what the world has become.

Tre is struggling this yr. 64th best CB. However last yr he was 2nd best run stuffing cb in the whole league. Last year Shaq was 111th out of 112 cb and this year he is top 20.

Tre if given time will end with more interceptions in his career then shaq.

Please give me an example of a CB we've had under Pete that took over two years to be good?

Browner, Maxwell, Sherman, Griffin, Earl, Kam, Lane, Thurmond etc............we knew within a year what we were getting with these guys.

Conversely Hill, Thompson,Smith, Simon, etc we knew what we were getting with these guys within a year or two as well.......and it's not good.

I'd put Flowers in the latter category, not the former. He's got some physical skills, but IMO he's never going to be more than a bottom tier DB, and that's not good enough for this defense. We can do better.

Griffin had a huge second-year slump than had us fairly questioning his future here.

I'd also dispute that Tre doesn't make plays. He's not Sherman, but three picks on the year and a couple of sacks are enough to keep him in the mix for me after converting to a new position in the pros.

Believe me, I went looking for statistical evidence that Tre was bad (it was supposed to be #4 on my takeaways list) and found this instead:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/byAlistairCorp/status/1212794081513889793[/tweet]

And yeah I'm well aware that this writer is your typical Fieldgulls contrarian who's usually driven more by a need to show up those dirty football peasants on the ESPN boards than anything else, but sometimes numbers speak for themselves adequately.

He had a terrible game last week and needs to get better, but he's nowhere Hill/Tedric/King bad. I'm sure Pete will hand him a 5th-round competitor next draft. If we're talking about using high collateral to replace him, though, there are barer cupboards on this roster.

 

[onepicknick1]

I think Trufant has been coaching him.

 

[Sports Hernia]

He HAS to learn to get his head turned. It’s going to be an automatic DPI if he doesn’t. He can be a perennial all pro if he learns that one thing.

I played DB in highschool back in the dinosaur days. Had a coach that said “you cannot defend when the ball is in the air if you cannot see the ball”

Which is wrong.

If you are beat, you only have one option and that is to focus on the WR's hands and try to separate them as he makes the catch. If you turn your head at the wrong time and miss the ball, that's an easy TD. Picture Tedric Thompson vs the Bengals.

DB's get beat all the time and have to resort to trying to salvage the play by at best getting the WR's hands off the ball or at worst tackling the guy so he can't gain yards after catch.

Sherman was so good at turning his head and locating the ball that we have all been spoiled. Most DB's are not that talented and have to rely on other skills to disrupt passes.

Flowers is still a sophomore player making a transition from safety to boundary corner. He's fine as a CB2. Still needs to get timing down but he is covering guys fairly well. I think they only threw deep a couple of times and their WR's really didn't hurt us.

We will have to agree to disagree. If you watch him, even if he’s beat he usually recovers in time to get his head turned around.

 

[Elemas]

He's hard to gauge. At times, he looks like a seasoned vet (especially against the run)

Deep ball thrown to his side and while the ball is in the air I'm thinking DPI or catch.

I disagree that his upside may be greater than that of Shaq. I feel like both players are far from "maturity" with Shaq likely approaching that stage next season.

It's hard to tell at this point. But, if PC knows anything, he knows DBs.

If we're not shopping for corners in this draft.....good enough answer for me.

 

[Mad Dog]

He HAS to learn to get his head turned. It’s going to be an automatic DPI if he doesn’t. He can be a perennial all pro if he learns that one thing.

I played DB in highschool back in the dinosaur days. Had a coach that said “you cannot defend when the ball is in the air if you cannot see the ball”

Which is wrong.

If you are beat, you only have one option and that is to focus on the WR's hands and try to separate them as he makes the catch. If you turn your head at the wrong time and miss the ball, that's an easy TD. Picture Tedric Thompson vs the Bengals.

DB's get beat all the time and have to resort to trying to salvage the play by at best getting the WR's hands off the ball or at worst tackling the guy so he can't gain yards after catch.

Sherman was so good at turning his head and locating the ball that we have all been spoiled. Most DB's are not that talented and have to rely on other skills to disrupt passes.

Flowers is still a sophomore player making a transition from safety to boundary corner. He's fine as a CB2. Still needs to get timing down but he is covering guys fairly well. I think they only threw deep a couple of times and their WR's really didn't hurt us.

We will have to agree to disagree. If you watch him, even if he’s beat he usually recovers in time to get his head turned around.

Who’s “He”?

Watch the corners defending DK Metcalf last night. How many got their heads turned when they were beat?

 

[chris98251]

We just need a 1 billion salary cap, then we could sign the best player as starters and depth here. But even then we would some that would be bitching that John was wasting cap space on someone as not worth their salary.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

I disagree 100%. Two years is enough time to see? Most players pick it up by year 4. In all fairness most players in the 90s didnt start for 3 years. Ppl give up on players too quick anymore. Its instant gratification on what the world has become.

Tre is struggling this yr. 64th best CB. However last yr he was 2nd best run stuffing cb in the whole league. Last year Shaq was 111th out of 112 cb and this year he is top 20.

Tre if given time will end with more interceptions in his career then shaq.

Please give me an example of a CB we've had under Pete that took over two years to be good?

Browner, Maxwell, Sherman, Griffin, Earl, Kam, Lane, Thurmond etc............we knew within a year what we were getting with these guys.

Conversely Hill, Thompson,Smith, Simon, etc we knew what we were getting with these guys within a year or two as well.......and it's not good.

I'd put Flowers in the latter category, not the former. He's got some physical skills, but IMO he's never going to be more than a bottom tier DB, and that's not good enough for this defense. We can do better.

I will give you one. Its on other side of flowers right now. He sucked last yr and was decent in year 1. He is now playing good.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fieldg ... all22-tape

How about shead?


Ppl quit too much on players unless they are gods right away. Its why ppl wanna crown great 1st year players as goats.

Shead is a very good comp for Flowers, another CB that had a couple years to develop, and never did enough for us to seriously consider him the long term answer opposite our #1 CB. Thus his departure.

Griffin never sucked. Bad example.

CB's in Pete's defense need to be playmakers, difference makers.........Flowers is neither of those, and IMO never will be. I'm perfectly fine with him being on the roster through the rest of his rookie contract as he's a good backup and he's cheap.

But as a starter? Nope.

Griffin was 110 out of 111 in rankings as a cb in 2018. Great example of a stat over a opinion.

 

[AgentDib]

We should and will be trying to improve every position on the roster. The real question is not whether we should be satisfied with a certain player, but whether the position they play could use more competition over the off-season. The answer is almost always yes.

How awesome would it be if we find a CB in the off-season that pushes Griffin, let alone Flowers? You can't have enough good depth in the NFL.

 

[evergreen]

Or keep drafting HOF players in the 5th and 6th rounds. Imagine Flowers with an average pass rush. Now with the 49ers pass rush. We need D line help way more than replacing Flowers. Sherman and Browner got tagged a lot for dpi but after a while it was just tough play. I'll take the dpi over getting burned any day.